Price increase on GW Products (coming 7th March)

[Flippy]

27 minutes ago, zilberfrid said:

You said skirmish games were not the same thing, so I provided examples of army games.

That wasn't me.

28 minutes ago, zilberfrid said:

But if it must be a GW branded army game specifically with the GW branded characters of that setting, well, you have limited yourself outside of alternatives (or just keep using AoS 2 books).

I don't know. I was just sharing my story - the GW branded characters got me into GW branded army approx. 25 years ago and that is why I recently came back to wargaming after a long, long time. I have alternative models now, but I never would have started for the alternative models. It was GW for me.

Truth be told, I was very much into LoTR books before that. If only someone would have offered an actual LoTR wargame, things would be very different for me now. Oh, wait...

33 minutes ago, zilberfrid said:

As for the comparison to LEGO: Many alternatives are not as well machined so they don't stick sufficiently. Others copied a LEGO box to the brick (Leipin). I don't think someone making a humanoid in a different style but cheaper is the same as someone making a knockoff of the real product that doesn't work as well.

https://www.playmobil.co.uk/

These are good, well machined and a lot of fun. Guess what? They made their own movie and charge you a lot. I can definitely see a pattern here, can you?

 

[zilberfrid]

25 minutes ago, Flippy said:

That wasn't me.

I don't know. I was just sharing my story - the GW branded characters got me into GW branded army approx. 25 years ago and that is why I recently came back to wargaming after a long, long time. I have alternative models now, but I never would have started for the alternative models. It was GW for me.

Truth be told, I was very much into LoTR books before that. If only someone would have offered an actual LoTR wargame, things would be very different for me now. Oh, wait...

https://www.playmobil.co.uk/

These are good, well machined and a lot of fun. Guess what? They made their own movie and charge you a lot. I can definitely see a pattern here, can you?

I didn't look very well, it was Noserenda who said that.

Comparing Playmobile to LEGO is like comparing Schleich animals to unbuilt, unpainted miniatures. Both are technically smaller representations of reality, but one doesn't require the user to do anything before play, while the other does.

I started with AoS because it was fantasy themed and easily available. I don't care for much the old world, and only for about half of the new world, so maybe that's why I'm not that attached to whatever GW makes.

[Flippy]

43 minutes ago, zilberfrid said:

I started with AoS because it was fantasy themed and easily available. I don't care for much the old world, and only for about half of the new world, so maybe that's why I'm not that attached to whatever GW makes.

I see the difference, and I understand that this has a huge impact on our price-sensitivity. Most people I know who are in the hobby are really into GW and I tend to take it for granted. Anyways, thanks for the discussion!

[Kasper]

8 hours ago, Marcvs said:

I agree with the hour of passtime / €€€ ratio reasoning but I would consider having one 2000pts army as the standard goal for a new player of Age of Sigmar. Saying that you can play 500pts games is very close to saying you can play a different game: after a few introductory games you'll really struggle to find an opponent in all but the biggest scenes.

If we are talking new players then I dont think the goal should be a 2.000 pts army right away. Sure thats ultimately what they should strive for if they get addicted, but buying a simple Start Collecting box and having fun with it should be the first goalpost for new players. 

[Elmir]

The constant price hikes, excessive amounts of books for (often minor) rules updates and speed at which they become obsolete has had a serious impact on our local community at  least in the last few months. 

We've just played our first AoS game as a group again in about 11 months. Not because we weren't allowed to play together... (We have played quite a few games from other companies) but mostly because there's more and more complaints about how things were going. 

It might be different to others of course, but increasing prices while making record profits and while everybody is hurting from higher bills in general, felt very tone-deaf. It's not going to affect my purchasing habits too much though: I was already in a "just finish your backlog while sourcing rules alsewhere" mode for GW in general. 

[Greybeard86]

2 hours ago, Flippy said:

Do we need any? I can see the hype thread 3292 pages long on this grown-ups forum. People are living for this hype.

Well, yes, because it is that choice that results in the prices we are complaining about.

[yukishiro1]

8 hours ago, Kasper said:

If we are talking new players then I dont think the goal should be a 2.000 pts army right away. Sure thats ultimately what they should strive for if they get addicted, but buying a simple Start Collecting box and having fun with it should be the first goalpost for new players. 

This works from a hobby perspective, but from a game perspective playing low point values is a totally different experience from high point values. It's one of the major problems with getting people into the hobby. The rules just don't work at lower point values unless you deliberately take it easy. I mean we complain about the rules at 2000 points...but they're even more dysfunctional at lower points values. 

It's one of the reasons I always tell people not to get into warhammer unless they really enjoy the hobby side. Because you are going to be hobbying for a very long time before you get to use your models in the game as it's actually meant to be played, and there's no guarantee you're going to actually like it when you do. 

Edited February 12, 2022 by yukishiro1

[Greybeard86]

1 hour ago, Flippy said:

I was just sharing my story - the GW branded characters got me into GW branded army approx. 25 years ago and that is why I recently came back to wargaming after a long, long time. I have alternative models now, but I never would have started for the alternative models. It was GW for me.

Not surprising! It happened to a lot of us. To their credit, my parents tried to get me interested in 3rd party minis. But as a kid, I just saw them as poor substitutes.

What I do not understand is how now, with plenty of adults in the hobby (at argue that more than ever), we still fall for the same BS. Then we turn around and complain that we are being charged too much. Well of course! A company that faces little competition will generally use that market power to raise prices. No, that is not good for the hobby. No, we don't need profit record GW to have a hobby.

[yukishiro1]

1 hour ago, Greybeard86 said:

Well, yes, because it is that choice that results in the prices we are complaining about.

I know it's anecdotal, but I've seen more actual reaction to this price hike than any other. It's still just people talking - is someone who says they are shelving plans for a new army really going to do so? Who knows. But I'm hearing a lot more of it, both on the internet and in real life. Past price hike have been people forecasting doom and gloom generally, this time it seems to be less that and more people specifically saying how it's impacting them. 

I myself have decided not to pull the trigger on the soulblight army I was considering - not because I can't afford it per se but just because it's left a bad taste in my mouth. I've also emailed GW to let them know this - not because any one data point maters, but because if enough people do, they will tabulate it.

I think the best we can hope for is that if this price hike really does diminish GW's sales significantly it will become a data point for future price hike decisions and may lead them to be less cavalier about it in future. Of course, it's possible they'd take the exact opposite conclusion and decide that it's a reason to raise prices even more to try to make up for the lowered volume. It is GW after all. 

Edited February 11, 2022 by yukishiro1

[CommissarRotke]

1 hour ago, yukishiro1 said:

This works from a hobby perspective, but from a game perspective playing low point values is a totally different experience from high point values. It's one of the major problems with getting people into the hobby. The rules just don't work at lower point values. I mean we complain about the rules at 2000 points...but they're even more dysfunctional at lower points values. 

It's one of the reasons I always tell people not to get into warhammer unless they really enjoy the hobby side. Because you are going to be hobbying for a very long time before you get to use your models in the game as it's actually meant to be played, and there's no guarantee you're going to actually like it when you do. 

Yeah this is also part of the problem... you're expected to get 2000 points. Period. There's no in-between except maybe the beginning of PTG if you can find it in your area. This is compounded by the fact that the smaller systems like WHU and Warcry are now priced higher, making them even harder to segue into the tabletop system for new people.

Now that Warcry is giving rules to Underworlds warbands, Warcry might be the best middleground to jump in if you're looking to stick to GW rules. I've heard it really requires terrain to shine though, so we'll see.

1 hour ago, yukishiro1 said:

I know it's anecdotal, but I've seen more actual reaction to this price hike than any other.

Here's hoping people don't just talk. Which mailbox did you send feedback to?

[yukishiro1]

Just the generic  CustServ@gwplc.com, I wasn't able to find anything else that seemed like it'd bit better for general feedback. I've sent general feedback there before and they just send you a form response indicating receipt with some PR nonsense about valuing your opinion. Maybe it just goes straight into the virtual trashbin but I have to think that if they get enough of them maybe someone mentions it to someone higher up. 

[Kadeton]

The best way for new players to get into GW games is via the secondhand market, IMO. Sticker shock, assembly and painting requirements are an awful lot to cope with all at once when you're starting out. It's also the best way to keep costs down if you're trying to stay in the GW section of the hobby on a tight budget.

[pnkdth]

Is it truly a luxury hobby though?

Similar to the Vince's argument that the hobby is actually good value when you consider the hours of fun it gives you this sounds more as a rationalisation or comping mechanism. When I hear the word luxury I associate it with a premium experience which justifies paying well above the "actual" value of the product itself. In contrast we have things like the official apps, WH+, and the overall quality/delivery of rules which are questionable to say the least.

Moving on to the miniatures, do I get a luxury experience here? I would argue no, since quite a lot of releases are timed exclusives (a nicer way of calling them FOMO boxes) which leads to me having to jump through hoops to get what I want. The quality of models are great IMO, love 'em, but the delivery is far removed from a luxury experience.

I would also challenge the notion it has "always been a luxury hobby" since in the past you got more minis for less and I never recall being so much on the fence about buying new minis. It was quite easy to get past the initial 1k pts hump without feeling like you just gave up a portion of your soul and dignity in the process. So many boxes have been repackaged with fewer minis yet kept increasing in price then placed in battleforce boxes (I'm looking at you hedonites) to make them seem like "good value." I mean it is the oldest sales trick in the book, offer something that seem too much and then offer something that suddenly seem reasonable in comparison. Plants a false sense of value.

They could, however, make good on the whole premium brand by improving the customer experience/choice aspect + much improved quality assurance as far as rules are concerned.

So in the end, I think GW is trying to rebrand themselves as the premium choice in wargaming. Whether it will work remains to be seen since, much like others have observed, the hobby overall has seen a real shake-up lately and have introduced players to new (and old) systems. Which is really good for us as I think we might very well see added pressure on GW to step up their game.

Personally, I consider myself a tabletop gamer/hobbyist rather than a warhammer player. I'm not throwing the baby out with the bath water but GW has had to share my hobby pie with games like Malifaux, Infinity, and Star/Frostgrave for awhile now. While those are skirmish games I've really come to appreciate building and creating smaller crews. As far as GW is concerned, both Kill Team and Warcry are still on my radar.

TL;DR: Competition good. Happy hobbying! 😊

[Nos]

One thing that really became apparent to me over the past few years is just how middle class GW is. I don't mean that perjorativley, just that throughout the pandemic, like most things, it quickly became apparent that most people who play GW wargames have not just the money to buy miniatures, but also

the space in which to store them/paint them (not infrequently they have a literal room or reserved space for this) cars to transport their models, and also money for everything else on top like raising a family etc.

So while as with a lot if things *in theory* the ceiling of entry financially is pretty low, in reality most people who play have the associated middle class priveleges and commodity of money, time, space which are increasingly hard to keep up with if you don't have a comparable level. By the same token, I've seen a lot of people selling up in this period because they couldn't keep up financially. 

This isn't new, but its notable as someone growing up In a poor home that these things are greatly exacerbated now compared to when I was a kid. Even the fact growing up it wasn't unusual to see pictures in WD of battles fought around cups, on hills made of books etc. That might not sound significant, but as someone growing up in a home whete there never was space or tidiness, the message that wargames were accessible within a context of domestic detritus or upper lower class reality was huge. On the other hand, back then a lot of wargaming took place in garages of affordable semi detached houses, houses which now are unavailable for less than nearly half a million pounds.

But basically what I'm saying is as a luxury product, GW's main demographic of consumers are conformably within the threshold of dealing with price rises like this.

And in fact given the way capitalism works (as in, it dosent), the more expensive it gets, the more catered for they will actually be.

Edited February 12, 2022 by Nos

[Kaleb Daark]

2 hours ago, pnkdth said:

Is it truly a luxury hobby though?

Similar to the Vince's argument that the hobby is actually good value when you consider the hours of fun it gives you this sounds more as a rationalisation or comping mechanism. When I hear the word luxury I associate it with a premium experience which justifies paying well above the "actual" value of the product itself. In contrast we have things like the official apps, WH+, and the overall quality/delivery of rules which are questionable to say the least.

Moving on to the miniatures, do I get a luxury experience here? I would argue no, since quite a lot of releases are timed exclusives (a nicer way of calling them FOMO boxes) which leads to me having to jump through hoops to get what I want. The quality of models are great IMO, love 'em, but the delivery is far removed from a luxury experience.

I would also challenge the notion it has "always been a luxury hobby" since in the past you got more minis for less and I never recall being so much on the fence about buying new minis. It was quite easy to get past the initial 1k pts hump without feeling like you just gave up a portion of your soul and dignity in the process. So many boxes have been repackaged with fewer minis yet kept increasing in price then placed in battleforce boxes (I'm looking at you hedonites) to make them seem like "good value." I mean it is the oldest sales trick in the book, offer something that seem too much and then offer something that suddenly seem reasonable in comparison. Plants a false sense of value.

They could, however, make good on the whole premium brand by improving the customer experience/choice aspect + much improved quality assurance as far as rules are concerned.

So in the end, I think GW is trying to rebrand themselves as the premium choice in wargaming. Whether it will work remains to be seen since, much like others have observed, the hobby overall has seen a real shake-up lately and have introduced players to new (and old) systems. Which is really good for us as I think we might very well see added pressure on GW to step up their game.

Personally, I consider myself a tabletop gamer/hobbyist rather than a warhammer player. I'm not throwing the baby out with the bath water but GW has had to share my hobby pie with games like Malifaux, Infinity, and Star/Frostgrave for awhile now. While those are skirmish games I've really come to appreciate building and creating smaller crews. As far as GW is concerned, both Kill Team and Warcry are still on my radar.

TL;DR: Competition good. Happy hobbying! 😊

yes and no.

From a commercial perspective it's a high end niche product. One defines luxury from a commercial sense as something that a customer wants rather than needs.  If you don't have food and clothes and utilities and rent then there are repercussions, if you don't have plastic soldiers it's not the end of the world.

It's not a fast moving consumer good (FMCG) and prices even from the beginning have been aimed at the collector and enthusiast.  We're talking a single  old citadel model which was back in the late 80s the cost of three pints of milk.

So in reality it's never been cheap in that respect.

What GW and citadel used to do in the past was discount old stock, end of line etc.  That doesn't happen now.

 

What you say though is also true and it's an old marketing trick - you know that those two gargants are 125 bones each, so when you have two in a box for 125, then it's essentially the discount but wrapped up with some clever words - but to you the customer the "perceived value" is still high as they're not discounted as such, but you know to buy them separately would cost twice that.  Its what they did with the imperial knights if you remember.

It's a trick that the auto industry have been doing for years - throw out an edition of a car which is a weak seller with lots fo toys as standard and people feel they're getting a great deal vs speccing the parts separately.  it's a simplistic overview, but you're on the money really about the hidden in plain sight discount without the big 50% off sticker on it.

Doing it that way won't cause any damage to "perceived value" of the product or brand, but If they offered to give 50% off then customers will wait till then and buy - and it devalues the brand.

Things like Black friday enable someone like GW should they choose, to do obvious discounting again without devaluing the brand as it's all a bit of an annual event now.

 

So we get onto value.  Again it's all wrapped up in the perception of things, and what it's worth to us as we are all emotionally invested as much as financially invested.

A character model is in the region of 20 plus now. to someone outside of our sphere that seems like madness.  However you can get an old cheap car for less money than you can a warlord titan.  

You got a mortgage to pay and you start to throttle back on that warlord titan.

That food shop for the week is cheaper than that big here model you were about to drop on.

So, the cost of our hobby boils down to what we are willing to pay, and what we find acceptable.  And those metrics change, they slide with our life needs and situation.

GW like everyone in the world selling something will only stop raising prices when nobody is willing to buy their stuff.  until then, your only thought should be what you are willing to pay, and what you find acceptable.

[Captain Marius]

Bear in mind what you pay for gw keeps the brick and mortar stores open, enables third party sellers to exist, and pays for the free stuff that goes to schools and gsming clubs to keep the whole hobby alive! Yeah its premium pricing, but gw are doing more than any other wargames manufacturer to keep the hobby going. Its never been just the cost of tbe models to make and distribute. I started when a tactical squad was 10 quid - you can afford it or u cant.

[Kaleb Daark]

35 minutes ago, Captain Marius said:

Bear in mind what you pay for gw keeps the brick and mortar stores open, enables third party sellers to exist, and pays for the free stuff that goes to schools and gsming clubs to keep the whole hobby alive! Yeah its premium pricing, but gw are doing more than any other wargames manufacturer to keep the hobby going. Its never been just the cost of tbe models to make and distribute. I started when a tactical squad was 10 quid - you can afford it or u cant.

Exactly.

stores and their associated costs and staffing wages bills all mount up pretty quick.

its frightening really. A store, two staff and all the bills and you’ve done nearly 50-75k without even a penny going in the till.

For a business like theirs its a double edged sword as well.  If you kill off the retail stores you suddenly have a profit spike as it all goes online with overheads dropping.

what you then have is a slowing of sales until you start spending money to make your online presence attract new blood and get your brand out there.

At that point you’d be rethinking distribution as lets face it, if you didn’t have stores then people have no real reason to pay ful rrp and instead just use indi’s.

for me its all about the relationship with my local store manager- if I don’t like the guy, then online with a discount it is.

 

as you say- you either afford it or you can’t.

[pnkdth]

19 hours ago, Kaleb Daark said:

yes and no.

From a commercial perspective it's a high end niche product. One defines luxury from a commercial sense as something that a customer wants rather than needs.  If you don't have food and clothes and utilities and rent then there are repercussions, if you don't have plastic soldiers it's not the end of the world.

It's not a fast moving consumer good (FMCG) and prices even from the beginning have been aimed at the collector and enthusiast.  We're talking a single  old citadel model which was back in the late 80s the cost of three pints of milk.

So in reality it's never been cheap in that respect.

I do not think that is a very useful definition since it becomes too broad and essentially encapsulate everything beyond basic necessities. Which is kind of my point, it is an expensive recreational hobby but I do not think you can call it a luxury product. (edit: added in 'not' but you probably already guessed it should be there!)

Which is the point I was making in the previous point, GW is trying to position themselves as a premium brand. However, I do not think they've hit the mark since I associate everything they do (except their minis) with the phrase, "minimal effort, maximum profit." They could do it but they really have to step up their quality assurance on rules, improve on WH+, drastically improve the AoS/40k app since much smaller studios put them to shame (while also being entirely free). All of these are a thorn, least in my eyes, in maintaining a high perceived value.

I've never said it was cheap, just that things have progressively gotten a whole lot worse.

When you add all the controversy over the years + new actors popping up to take a bite off GW's market share, they now have a lot to prove. Having stepped out of GW's ecosystem have certainly opened up my eyes to what I expect or, indeed, demand from a company charging so much money for what is a recreational hobby I do not need. I guess you could say I flipped the script and no longer rely on them thus diminishing the power they used to have over me in the sphere of wargaming.

This is also what I mean by we're living in a post-GW world (earlier post or maybe a different thread). Not in a threatening kind of way or that I think this heralds the end of GW. I'm just going to shelve AoS till GW decides they want me back rather than treating me as if they're the only game in town. They're not and this is awesome for us gamers.

Edited February 13, 2022 by pnkdth

[yukishiro1]

Premium companies don't generally release products full of typos because they don't bother to pay an editor to proofread them, stuff like that is usually seen as a no-no for a premium brand image. I think it is a fair criticism to say that GW doesn't really walk the walk on being a premium company when it comes to anything besides models (and prices, of course). 

 

Edited February 13, 2022 by yukishiro1

[EccentricCircle]

It's somewhat alarming how many folks buy into the propaganda that GW stuff is "the best" when realistically it's anything but. 

That whole claim was based solely on the artistic merits of the miniatures which are certainly impressive works of sculpture. 

However, in making them so arty, they actually now fail as both model kits ( they are often a nightmare to build and paint), and as gaming pieces ( they are too fragile, and cannot be handled safely without risking damage.)

Add to that the comments that have already been made about the quality of the rules, book editing and translation, and peripherals like the apps and it all does seem quite a ridiculous claim.

But by setting themselves such a narrow definition of excellence and promoting themselves to (and through) display painters, they've created this illusion of greatness. Its the last legacy of the old "we don't care about rules" era gw and one which isn't likely to change any time soon.

What you are really paying for isn't a quality product, it's access to a well established setting, and an active community. Those externalities more than anything material are what keep gw on top.

Edited February 13, 2022 by EccentricCircle

[EccentricCircle]

Just now, EccentricCircle said:

It's somewhat alarming how many folks buy into the propaganda that GW stuff is "the best" when realistically it's anything but. 

That whole claim was based solely on the artistic merits of the miniatures which are certainly impressive works of sculpture. 

However, in making them so arty, they actually now fail as both model kits ( they are often a nightmare to build and paint), and as gaming pieces ( they are too fragile, and cannot be handled safely without risking damage.)

Add to that the comments that have already been made about the quality of the rules, book editing and translation, and peripherals like the apps and it all does seem quite a ridiculous claim.

But by setting themselves such a narrow definition for excellence and promoting themselves to (and through) display painters, they've created this illusion of greatness. Its the last legacy of the old "we don't care about rules" era gw and one which isn't likely to change any time soon.

What you are really paying for isn't a quality product, it's access to a well established setting, and an active community. Those externalities more than anything material are what keep gw on top.

 

[Kaleb Daark]

4 hours ago, EccentricCircle said:

It's somewhat alarming how many folks buy into the propaganda that GW stuff is "the best" when realistically it's anything but. 

That whole claim was based solely on the artistic merits of the miniatures which are certainly impressive works of sculpture. 

However, in making them so arty, they actually now fail as both model kits ( they are often a nightmare to build and paint), and as gaming pieces ( they are too fragile, and cannot be handled safely without risking damage.)

Add to that the comments that have already been made about the quality of the rules, book editing and translation, and peripherals like the apps and it all does seem quite a ridiculous claim.

But by setting themselves such a narrow definition of excellence and promoting themselves to (and through) display painters, they've created this illusion of greatness. Its the last legacy of the old "we don't care about rules" era gw and one which isn't likely to change any time soon.

What you are really paying for isn't a quality product, it's access to a well established setting, and an active community. Those externalities more than anything material are what keep gw on top.

I’d go along with this.

their main triumph is convincing their public that there’s no reason to look elsewhere.

i still maintain they are, in their own field a luxury product on the basis that the opposition gives you way more bang for your buck.

what they have over practically anything else is several decades of backstory and lore to pull from, and like any business looking at profits they look at not what they need to do but what they can get away with before the peasants start revolting.

why give you a battletome  thats like a heresy black book or tamurkhan when you’ll pay thirty for eighty pages of sketchy and if they take the branding off you’ll give them another 20 on top.

And like any enterprise, the quality of your product is based on what you’ve got to compete with.  If people are convinced that theres nothing out there to replace or better your stuff then who cares of you’ve got lazy rules and bad typo’s and stupidly expensive models.   You’ll pay.  And if you don’t many others will.

Edited February 13, 2022 by Kaleb Daark

[Kaleb Daark]

12 hours ago, pnkdth said:

I do not think that is a very useful definition since it becomes too broad and essentially encapsulate everything beyond basic necessities. Which is kind of my point, it is an expensive recreational hobby but I do not think you can call it a luxury product. (edit: added in 'not' but you probably already guessed it should be there!)

Which is the point I was making in the previous point, GW is trying to position themselves as a premium brand. However, I do not think they've hit the mark since I associate everything they do (except their minis) with the phrase, "minimal effort, maximum profit." They could do it but they really have to step up their quality assurance on rules, improve on WH+, drastically improve the AoS/40k app since much smaller studios put them to shame (while also being entirely free). All of these are a thorn, least in my eyes, in maintaining a high perceived value.

I've never said it was cheap, just that things have progressively gotten a whole lot worse.

When you add all the controversy over the years + new actors popping up to take a bite off GW's market share, they now have a lot to prove. Having stepped out of GW's ecosystem have certainly opened up my eyes to what I expect or, indeed, demand from a company charging so much money for what is a recreational hobby I do not need. I guess you could say I flipped the script and no longer rely on them thus diminishing the power they used to have over me in the sphere of wargaming.

This is also what I mean by we're living in a post-GW world (earlier post or maybe a different thread). Not in a threatening kind of way or that I think this heralds the end of GW. I'm just going to shelve AoS till GW decides they want me back rather than treating me as if they're the only game in town. They're not and this is awesome for us gamers.

Winning people back has never been their style.

What we need to make them change is a viable competitor that their old public just click with and start shouting about.

And as a result only when those sales go down dramatically and consistently long term will questions be asked. Until that point you’re just talking to the proverbial brick wall.

Its also our duty to look around. As you say, theres some great systems out there.  One or more  just needs a foothold and to gain serious momentum.

[Noserenda]

Could anyone show some model sprues that match gw then? Love em or hate em they are technically waaaay ahead of their competitors. 

[EccentricCircle]

13 minutes ago, Noserenda said:

Could anyone show some model sprues that match gw then? Love em or hate em they are technically waaaay ahead of their competitors. 

But by what metric?

In terms of fineness of detail, and amount of components crammed on a sprue, certainly, they are the best, and that is the benchmark against which they want to be judged. I am also quite impressed on a technical level by the easy to build sprues and how they've made the models work as push fit.

But none of those things are the primary thing I look for in a mini. I want the model to be accessible, so that I don't break the pieces trying to get them off the sprue, or hurt my hand trying to get the clippers into the really tight spaces. GW sprues fail on both those marks.

Then I want variety and customisability. For all the material they cram onto the sprues, its actually really hard to use it to build anything other than the two monopose builds which those bits are supposed to combine into. Compare this to something like the frostgrave wizards kits, where any piece can connect to any other, and you can really customise to your hearts content. Now frostgrave models look nice, but they are chunkier than GW ones, and never go together quite as seamlessly. So as far as GW and fans of the art go, they are inferior, but as an enjoyable experience to build and get the result I want, I'd take the wizards over a newer warhammer kit any day.

Some GW sprues are also really difficult to build. I've sat there for 10 minutes trying to fit pieces together and failing spectacularly, when I could have built several less detailed figures. I consider that a major mark against them as an enjoyable model kit, even if the result of those impossible to match pieces is a really nice looking model. (Their instructions are at least getting better, but when half the joins between the pieces don't really look like anything it becomes more a 3d jigsaw puzzle than a model kit!)

In essence if you let GW dictate the metric by which their minis will be judged, they will always make it look as though they come out on top. But my point is that the question of which is best is a multifaceted one, to which there is no right answer. It really depends what you want out of it, and What you care about!

So that gives you three or so reasons why I consider Frostgrave Wizards to be the better plastic kit, but you may well value different things, and be willing to put up with oddly fitting pieces, fragile minis and hard to access sprue arrangements, whereas I'll gladly put up with needing to fill gaps or remove mold lines from time to time, because the build experience is more enjoyable, and I like the end product better. Your mileage will vary.