Price increase on GW Products (coming 7th March)

[madmac]

2 minutes ago, sandlemad said:

WHU is a particularly relevant example due to the sheer number of ‘stealth’ prices rises its received, with new starter kits and new individual warbands being something like 60% more than their equivalent a few years ago, i.e. new products being more expensive than their equivalent. 

You do get this with e.g. new AoS/40k infantry/monsters/etc being more expensive than infantry/monsters/etc released a year or two before but it’s a particularly sore point in a game based around seasons. Regardless it’s worth remembering that this new price rise is coming on top of not just three other open price rises in the last four years but also these other, more subtle increases.

This. I've seen in a price list floating around for Example that Red Harvest is somehow going up, even though it's more expensive than Catacombs, which was itself something like a 35% price increase over the first Warcry starter just a year before with significantly more content. Prices are already unrecognizable from where they were when I jumped into this hobby, and that was less than four years ago.

[sandlemad]

Yeah, it’s very Pacific Rim. Not just that the prices are going up but when you factor in these ‘inter-release’ jumps, the price increases are becoming more frequent overall.

[CommissarRotke]

Yet again we return to the stunningly brilliant business move that was "scrap our digital book offerings in order to sell paper copies with a code for our app"--oh and btw, there's a bunch of AOS books from Black Library that are ebook only for the very fair price of 10 USD 🤡

47 minutes ago, Neverchosen said:

So the real question is what is the better game system between SW: Legion and Marvel Crisis Protocol?

I've been looking at Legion, got their starter set to check it out. Even if those prices go up you're still only buying an army for ~200 USD maximum.

I will also say that 100% this increase is pissing me off more because of other decisions like scrapping digitals, removing store warscrolls, and increasing prices on new boxes in general. If it was ONLY this inflation raise, I'd be far more understanding. I have a backlog I can get through for a while, but since the newer kits have been more pricey than I can stand for my budget, this increase looks like it will push me out of 2022 buying as well. 

[pnkdth]

17 minutes ago, Clan's Cynic said:

This.

GW has a very high profit margin compared to the majority of companies. They could absorb the cost if they wanted to, but they know their fanatic fanbase will happily eat it instead and any falloff from people being priced out will be carried by those willing to pay more.

The question remains how far this can be taken though since unlike the video game industry it is very hard to simply start over and redo the same price journey with another live service. Each new price hike is going be someone else's breaking point + an additional buy-in barrier for new players.

Looking at influencers and content creators that mostly have covered GW have started to give more space to direct competitors of GW, supposed "GW shills" have slammed GW practices such as the new seasons/chapter approved in 40k, and also released new miniatures/rules themselves. I think they have picked up on the fact there are plenty of disgruntled hobbyists around just looking for an excuse to look elsewhere... And it seems it is working.

Below is from Dave's Ravaged Star kickstarter and those are pretty tasty metrics which shows a very real hunger for an alternative. More importantly, it is a very clear sign that GW is not as untouchable as they like to think they are. Add to that we're only really in the infancy of a post-GW world (I know there were other games before but what I mean other systems getting way more attention throughout previously GW-only communities and media channels).

[Kasper]

39 minutes ago, Durgin said:

Well, let's see then my personale experience, just to add some other data.

I own a small company that designs and produces resin miniatures.

To ship my products I use Spring, which is a super cool system to deliver all around the world, managed by PostNL and strongly connected with the various local posts. Before the pandemic, to ship from Italy to Australia an average parcel (about 250grams) I paid about 4.5/5€. Now I pay 5,30€.

The price has raised, it's true, but still I can live with it.

And I think that, being mine a small and newborn company, I should have a waaaaaaaay worse pricing than GW, a global company whose incomes are hundreds of millions of €, basically I think that earns more GW selling abaddon black color drops in 30 minutes than my company in a two years. Concerning shippings, as you may imagine the costs lower as the volume of shipments rise, so I fairly guess that, if you look at the singular shipment, GW should pay less than me.

Same with all the other "costs" that you correctly mention: GW has costs bigger than all the other competitors, it's true, but luckily for GW they also generate profit.

Again: I don't say that GW has no right to rise prices, or that there are not reasons for a company to rise prices. I only say that, as soon as I remember (so 25years of hobby, 'till now) GW has raised prices every 2 years, applying at the same time an exchange rate  horribly wrong (that generates huge profits without spending a single pence), so it's difficult for me to justify another + on prices, for products that are already extremely overpriced.

When WH underworlds started (2016), a single box costed about 25€. I assume that GW priced those boxes to earn some profit, am I right? Now a single box costs 34€ and, with the incoming  augmented price we are talking about 40/42€. It's a big difference, and I can hardly justify it only based on the "well, the inflation rises and we have many expenses" thing..

 

 

 

 

As an accountant I have multiple clients that are seriously considering closing down their businesses because of the increased costs of shipping and are worried about further increasing costs, namely on electricity etc., due to the tensions with Russia. The increasing cost has a cascading effect onto other all expenses as mentioned before.

I cant really comment on small scale shipping but the prices on entire containers etc. have literally increased by 400% in some cases. GW isnt just moving a parcel or two at a time. I could imagine the reason your prices arent increasing that much is because a large company typically purchase the shipment and then try to fill it with whatever to reduce the net cost?

You could argue that GW is making "enough money" and could easily eat this expense - Yes absolutely they will still be going strong without increasing prices, but why should they? At the end of the day they are a business, which entire purpose is to make money. The shareholders obviously demand this. I dont think its unreasonable to expect that GW want a smaller price hike to cover the increasing costs they undeniably have already had. 

[Noserenda]

Costs go up, prices go up. I mean it sucks but its the way things currently work in the world *cough*

This one is feeling a lot reasonable than most GW price hikes at least, mostly 10% in the face of the much larger cost rises? GW IS eating some of those losses for us.

Blood Bowl teams have been very reasonable for a long while, i guess this is just bringing them in line with more typical prices.

Personally now i have to chose between getting the Skaven Endless spells i kinda need or the Snotling BB team ive wanted for ages but never been able to fully justify, cant get both!  

[RuneBrush]

3 hours ago, AdamR said:

This.
One of my suppliers at work has been hit with a 1200% increase in shipping costs, from $5 a landed unit to $60!

Ouch!  The company I work at (UK based) has had a container of goods from China go from $2500 to $18000, but your supplier certainly has it a worse.

2 hours ago, Durgin said:

It is undoubted that the last years of pandemic made the prices of raw material, energy and logistic go up significantly.

What I am wondering is: how does this rise of costs affect GW?

I try to explain despite my horrible English (I know, it's painful).

 A) let's imagine I own a pizzeria. An average pizza (margherita) costs about 0.5€/0.8€ in ingredients/general production costs, and is priced 5€/5,5€. If the cost of ingredients goes up, and I have to face 1,5€ of costs, it has a huge impact on my finances.

B) I'm Cracco (a famous chef here in Italy). In my restaurant, an average pizza (margherita) costs about 1.5/2€ in ingredients (because of higher quality raw materials etc), but I sell it at 16€ each. If my costs go up even by 100%, I would still have a very consistent margin of profit. 

 

In what case does GW belong?

In short - we don't know.  GW has a massive amount of overhead involved in the creation of each product, with multiple teams of individuals involved at each stage, plus places like WHW to run.  We also don't know the actual manufacturing cost (other than the costs people pluck out the air).  The UK also has the highest business rates in within Europe - so models actually cost GW to store.   In reality, I suspect the true answer is something between A and B.

The real question is at what point does hobbyists wages hit a point where they can't afford luxuries such as miniatures or game systems.

1 hour ago, Jator said:

I can understand the price rise on metals, but can someone please explain to me what's the reasoning behind the 20% rise on Blood Bowl teams?

Don't understand what you mean by the price rise on metals?  There aren't many metal miniatures in GW's range any more (think they're mostly in LotR).

[CommissarRotke]

If you keep closing off your customer base, you will eventually strangle yourself. They cannot keep relying on whales and fanatics if they want to grow & not just maintain a profit in their little sphere.

Again, it's about the fact that this announcement comes on the heels of numerous stealth increases throughout the year. Why are those stealth increases not covering new costs? Harrowdeep and that new Warcry set especially; those will both be going up even after launching at a higher price than ever.

[Grimrock]

1 hour ago, Neverchosen said:

So I have been looking into other game systems and this is the exact push I needed. I am not leaving AOS but I am definitely not going to be getting a new army or really adding anything more significant to my existing armies... Maybe one or two units when big releases come out, but overall I am pretty happy with my armies. In essence they have finally priced me out... a number of years back 😅

So the real question is what is the better game system between SW: Legion and Marvel Crisis Protocol? As much as I would rather support a smaller IP my friends are interested in the bigger more familiar game systems. My top pick would be Armada but pre-painted models (even knowing I can repaint them) feels a little like sacrilege. The positive news is that now I can point to this increase to get out of the pressure to avoid my friends getting me into 40k. 

Also wasn't Warhammer + going to be the companies saving grace? 😉 
Maybe if they cut down on those productions they can balance their books?

(Note: I am being overly facetious but this hobby has been very pricey for me and this increase is still not a happy time)

Haven't played legion, but Marvel Crisis Protocol is a rock solid game with fantastic rules that still encourages you to play nice thematic lists with heroes/villains that work together in the comic books and movies. The only problems I've had so far are model related. Building can sometimes be a chore as their kits aren't anywhere near as well laid out as GW's, but the biggest issue is actually finding the models you want. The game seems to have exploded in popularity to the point that they can't keep up with demand and it can be a real struggle to find certain popular models. Even so I'd highly recommend the game. 

On topic, I'll echo a number of others in saying I'm not surprised but I am irritated. A company raking in massive profits like GW could handle the increased costs and just make a little less profit. Not losing money or anything, just a little less profit. Ridiculous concept I know, that's not how any of this works, yadda yadda yadda. I've been in it for more than 20 years and I know the routine, but that doesn't help the fact that I get a little more annoyed every time price hike season rolls around. On the bright side I'm going to have to take an involuntary break from the hobby in a few months and honestly I'm hoping that this is the thing that finally gets me to kick the GW habit for good and move on. 

[NazbitWeirdstabba]

2 hours ago, Neverchosen said:

So I have been looking into other game systems and this is the exact push I needed. I am not leaving AOS but I am definitely not going to be getting a new army or really adding anything more significant to my existing armies... Maybe one or two units when big releases come out, but overall I am pretty happy with my armies. In essence they have finally priced me out... a number of years back 😅

So the real question is what is the better game system between SW: Legion and Marvel Crisis Protocol? As much as I would rather support a smaller IP my friends are interested in the bigger more familiar game systems. My top pick would be Armada but pre-painted models (even knowing I can repaint them) feels a little like sacrilege. The positive news is that now I can point to this increase to get out of the pressure to avoid my friends getting me into 40k. 

Also wasn't Warhammer + going to be the companies saving grace? 😉 
Maybe if they cut down on those productions they can balance their books?

(Note: I am being overly facetious but this hobby has been very pricey for me and this increase is still not a happy time)

I recommend One Page Rules, all free and you can continue to use your warhammer stuff. 

[Mutton]

Games Workshop have increased their prices at least once a year for the past 4 years. I have not a shred of sympathy or understanding to spare for their massive, immensely profitable corporation.

There are plenty of other more reasonable miniatures makers out there I'll be patronizing.

[Popisdead]

6 hours ago, Charleston said:

Seems like some bad news. 5-20% price increase on models and books. 

Not bad news just usual news.

Everything is going up, why be surprised or complain about things that continually happen.

[annarborhawk]

I guess I didn't realize how much straw I had accumulated on my back.

I'm this () close to selling the five armies I've spent countless hours collecting and painting. It's obviously not just this modest price increase. It's the combination of all the things people have cited.

But I think my eyes really started opening after playing some Bolt Action. Total cost for a full-sized army, rule book, and army book was about $200. No major rules changes for YEARS. Stream-lined, simple system that works and doesn't need constant tweeks to fix unforeseen problems caused by unhinged army book authors. Doesn't feel like a a deck-building "I can put together a better algorithm than you" game which is what GW games have become. Near alternating activations keep both players constantly playing and interacting.  No power creep. Etc. Etc. Etc. 

In short, it's becoming harder and harder to justify the enormous amount of BS one has to accept to continue to play GW games. What GW has left for me is history and familiarity, but that's wearing thin.

I am there, or I'm nearly there to putting it behind me.

[Harioch]

Well, I can't say I'm surprised with this increase knowing the global context but it sucks anyway. I'm this close to being priced out knowing the new prices here in France 🥲. It's mostly 10% increase and sometimes even more. Especially on troops like Fire warriors/Tree revenant/etc.

The most annoying thing to me are the books. I think they are already too expensive for what they bring (and some of them will be outdated 6 month after release cf: Chapter Approved Nachmund) and the work done on rules, translation errors, lore part being thinned out more and more. 

Oh well...I was thinking to jump into Malifaux or Infinity anyway...so it'll be sooner than expected.

P.s. The price list, courtesy of the French forum, with the old/new french prices just in case: https://pastebin.com/yfubKcFL

[mojojojo101]

I mean it's a price rise... again. Its hard to feel al that annoyed about it when it really feels pretty ineveitable.

Models I'm not all that bothered about, I have a budget for the hobby that I have stuck to pretty well over the last few years and that won't change. If that means less models and less purchases... so be it.

What does annoy me is Battletome prices increasing. At £30 the current 3e tomes are barely scraping over the line of affordability, an increase there and I'm just not going to bother buying them.

I don't play a lot of games and really a battletome feels like something I am obliged to own for the rare occasion I do. Outside of that they really just are not an interesting product.

[The Red King]

5 hours ago, SunStorm said:

It would be worth remembering that a lot of the same arguments and reactions are raised every time GW increase their prices. If you've been in the hobby for a long time, you'll have seen price increases many times and the same things said every time, about how this will kill the hobby, it'll put new people off, drive people to 3rd party, etc. 

Considering GW has never cost as much as it does now, the fact that they just had the best year of sales they've ever had, should show that those arguments were false then and there is little evidence that they will turn out to be true this time. 

 

 

 

Cost of living has always gone up but at least in the US wages arent keeping up and the reactions can only be wrong so many times.

 

There is a ceiling on how high the prices can go before they DO impact sales and the game and I would argue that we can't possibly know how many people currently never got into the hobby becaus of the cost of entry. Just because they're doing well doesn't mean they can just keep trying to get more and more out of us.

 

This ultimately becomes a matter of economic stances and I personally think the western "profit margins MUST increase EVERY time FOREVER!" Mentality to be a complete corporate fairy tale, (a fact many economists would agree with and many more would disagree with so this isn't really the place to hash that out in detail). Reality has to set in at some point and exponential profit growth is simply not sustainable forever. Defending their practice of squeezing us to fund their quest for the fountain of youth is simply not something I can get behind.

[Mutton]

1 hour ago, Popisdead said:

Not bad news just usual news.

Everything is going up, why be surprised or complain about things that continually happen.

Because then you might as well just lay down, roll over, and die. Do you want to just let them kick you in the head again and again without so much as a peep? If loudly bitching about their immoral practices is all we have, then take advantage of it. Don't simply accept it. Once you learn to live passively with it, you risk becoming its advocate. This goes for many things in life.

I'm continually astounded to see how many big names in the AoS community perpetuate this idea that we shouldn't be surprised by price increases, therefore we should stop complaining. This is wrong. GW is wrong. Big business is wrong. I won't accept this apathetic, servile attitude towards these massive companies that take advantage of all of us, including their own employees. If there are people willing to pay any dollar amount to get their plastic crack and continue to feed money into the company's deep treasury, so be it; but I'll never stop calling it out, and I'll never try to meekly justify it.

[yukishiro1]

They'll keep raising prices yearly until their sales start to fall as a result of it. It's just the way GW works. They're out to make the most money possible, not to make life better for you. 

They have the margin to easily absorb these sorts of costs if they wanted to, but why would they when they have the perfect excuse for a price raise right now? Never let a good crisis go to waste. 

The books and terrain were already spectacularly bad value for money, so raising those by an additional 10% seems the thing most likely to eat into their sales, especially given that it's 2022 and the community has never been known for its enthusiasm for buying the books anyway. $55 for a battletome is getting towards borderline absurd territory, to the point where even GW customers may balk. But I've been wrong before. Obviously they wouldn't be doing it if they didn't think people will suck it up and buy anyway. 

Edited February 9, 2022 by yukishiro1

[madmac]

5 minutes ago, yukishiro1 said:

They'll keep raising prices yearly until their sales start to fall as a result of it. It's just the way GW works. They're out to make money, not to make life better for you. 

They have the margin to easily absorb these sorts of costs if they wanted to, but why would they when they have the perfect excuse for a price raise right now? Never let a good crisis go to waste. 

The books and terrain were already spectacularly bad value for money, so raising those by an additional 10% seems the thing most likely to eat into their sales, especially given that it's 2022 and the community has never been known for its enthusiasm for buying the books anyway. $55 for a battletome is getting towards borderline absurd territory, to the point where even GW customers may balk. But I've been wrong before. Obviously they wouldn't be doing it if they didn't think people will suck it up and buy anyway. 

Here I am, a guy where apparently half of my armies (at least) are getting a hero and a book for an edition I'm not really a huge fan of, and they're raising the prices on books 10% to boot. I already bowed out of the last season of Underworlds, and I'll never buy another Warcry Starter. If GW has me at the point of considering how much I really need a new battletome when just about the only thing they're still selling me is books, they may have miscalculated a smidge.

[KrispyXIV]

Yeah, given rising shipping and human resources costs, this is more or less the single most predictable and justifiable price increase in years.

As a publicly traded company with investors, just eating costs and giving up margins isn't really an option - so they'd either have to cut costs (less personnel via layoffs, less products) or raise prices.  

I'm happy to help people keep their jobs and pay marginally more for my relatively high quality luxury hobby items that are still cheaper than any number of other luxury hobbies. 

[zilberfrid]

4 hours ago, Noserenda said:

Costs go up, prices go up. I mean it sucks but its the way things currently work in the world *cough*

This one is feeling a lot reasonable than most GW price hikes at least, mostly 10% in the face of the much larger cost rises? GW IS eating some of those losses for us.

Blood Bowl teams have been very reasonable for a long while, i guess this is just bringing them in line with more typical prices.

Personally now i have to chose between getting the Skaven Endless spells i kinda need or the Snotling BB team ive wanted for ages but never been able to fully justify, cant get both!  

If I read it correctly, all Endless Spells are going webstore only. This might mean Endless Spells are going out, I would hesitate to recommend them at this moment.

The Snotling BB team is an absolute delight, and I highly recommend it.

[yukishiro1]

36 minutes ago, KrispyXIV said:

As a publicly traded company with investors, just eating costs and giving up margins isn't really an option

Of course it is. Companies do it all the time, particularly when they think cost increases may be transient or when they believe expanding their customer base is more important than margins in the short term. The myth of activist investors is just that, a myth. Companies make decisions all the time to prioritize other factors over margins, and investors almost always go along with them. If anything, investors tend to undervalue margins in favor of "sexier" attributes like growth potential. 

Now GW is not in the sort of industry where customers are sensitive to price or likely to turn to budget alternatives, so they are unlikely to make that choice. But that doesn't mean it isn't an option they could make if they wanted. GW investors were not about to replace the board if they didn't raise prices. 

Edited February 9, 2022 by yukishiro1

[yukishiro1]

40 minutes ago, zilberfrid said:

If I read it correctly, all Endless Spells are going webstore only. This might mean Endless Spells are going out, I would hesitate to recommend them at this moment.

I think this is very likely in the longer term. We haven't seen new endless spells since...I want to say the LRL ones? Despite like 5-6 books coming out since then that don't have them. 

It's not going to happen any time soon, though. I would be very surprised if they're phased out before AOS4. 

Edited February 9, 2022 by yukishiro1

[Lord Krungharr]

Guess I should order my 3 Doomwheels this weekend then?!?

[Rachmani]

My case:

Profits aren’t necessarily bad or a sign of an evil corp. Profits can be reinvested etc. 

In this particular case? Dunno personally I‘m on the whatever side. Takes me ages to paint my models, I give many of them the „individual“ treatment. There surely is less well spent money in my case.

Still, I don’t like the combination of „one hero refreshes“ and keeping high profits. But then again, I‘m not sure how hard really brexit & the pandemic hit.

All in all I‘m not sure GW‘s balance of price & return is completely justified. But it certainly feels like competition is rising so we will see. Competition would be best for all of us.

Edited February 9, 2022 by Rachmani