Ormly Posted January 26, 2022 Share Posted January 26, 2022 (edited) I'm a fairly new player, and I took Sylvaneth because I like the aesthetics. I was complaining that my units seem fragile and even Alarielle is vulnerable to 1-shots and bursts. So somebody educated me on Gotrek. "There's a Duardin unit that's a walking tank." "Sylvaneth only has IDK and SE as allies, with some exceptions for subfactions. Don't play well with others." "You can put him in any Order army." I can what? Some crazy-ass Duardin is gonna fight for the trees? Well, maybe. So I got Gotrek. I converted him a little -- he got KO'ed by Archaon and Alarielle's magic brought him back, but he has to have leafy green hair for a bit. So lore basically works for me. I run him on occasion, swapping him in for Spirit of Durthu and 3 Kurnoth Hunters. Because they tend to die and he tends not to. But he feels so cheesy. As a Sylv. player, a unit without a heap of conditional abilities to remember is actually a nice bonus. But... Gotrek, again? So how do we feel about Gotrek? Day old cheese, or interesting when he's so slow and off-faction? I can't decide. Edited January 26, 2022 by Ormly Correction on allies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doko Posted January 27, 2022 Share Posted January 27, 2022 You dont need decide,the data and math never lie. Gotrek isnt in any tournament winning list before the huge nerf he got,now less even. 500points for a model with move 4" when enemy can redeploy a d6....... Only is good against noobs who dont know play rigth but how data shows us he is useless in competitive Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beliman Posted January 27, 2022 Share Posted January 27, 2022 (edited) @Doko there are some 5-0 (DoK, Seraphons, SCE, etc...) and 3-0 (Fyreslayers, Cities, KOs, etc...) winning lists with Gotrek. More than half of the armies that struggle in competitive are using Gotrek. In other words, if your army doesn't have all AoS 3.0 good things (Monsters, Good Melee Heroes, Mega-Gargant damage checks, etc...), Gotrek will always be a good option. And armies that can buff him or have some type of synergy with him, are going to be really strong (even winning tournaments). The only thing that can stop you from picking him is because Gotrek will not contribute "enough" to your army or your own playstyle. Note: I suggest to stop using "winning lists only" to know how strong is a unit. Edited January 27, 2022 by Beliman 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zilberfrid Posted January 27, 2022 Share Posted January 27, 2022 If your army is already good in 3, Gotrek is too slow. If your army can't clear objectives or deal with gargants/monsters, Gotrek is a stopgap measure. I also just like his model. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Siorra Posted January 27, 2022 Share Posted January 27, 2022 Gotrek is a deterrent. You move him onto an objective, look your opponent dead in the eye and say "come and take it if you want". No one will, but then you've got 485 points doing "nothing" on an objective. But I guess defending an objective isn't "doing nothing", so it's just a case of asking yourself if that is worth those points for that role in your army. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamR Posted January 27, 2022 Share Posted January 27, 2022 (edited) On 1/27/2022 at 9:59 AM, Siorra said: Gotrek is a deterrent. You move him onto an objective, look your opponent dead in the eye and say "come and take it if you want". No one will, but then you've got 485 points doing "nothing" on an objective. But I guess defending an objective isn't "doing nothing", so it's just a case of asking yourself if that is worth those points for that role in your army. This. Everyone who moans about Gotrek's speed seems to forget that this is an objectives game, and everyone is going to the same place! Edited January 28, 2022 by AdamR 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcvs Posted January 27, 2022 Share Posted January 27, 2022 (edited) The problem with the discussion on Gotrek is as always the duality casual/competitive. On the competitive side Gotrek is mostly a footnote of history. Sometimes he will pop up in a winning list but mostly he rarely sets foot on a podium (at LVO right now there are 5 gotreks out of 200+ players). On the casual side Gotrek can seem obnoxious and impossible to manage as he waltzes through unit after unit once the two players have met in the middle for a good ol' fistfight Edited January 27, 2022 by Marcvs 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ormly Posted January 28, 2022 Author Share Posted January 28, 2022 On 1/26/2022 at 5:15 PM, Doko said: You dont need decide,the data and math never lie. Gotrek isnt in any tournament winning list before the huge nerf he got,now less even. 500points for a model with move 4" when enemy can redeploy a d6....... Only is good against noobs who dont know play rigth but how data shows us he is useless in competitive I've been told rather a lot of times now that Sylvaneth aren't really competitive as a faction, so I'm not sure this adds information. Unless that's not true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ormly Posted January 28, 2022 Author Share Posted January 28, 2022 On 1/27/2022 at 1:59 AM, Siorra said: Gotrek is a deterrent. You move him onto an objective, look your opponent dead in the eye and say "come and take it if you want". No one will, but then you've got 485 points doing "nothing" on an objective. But I guess defending an objective isn't "doing nothing", so it's just a case of asking yourself if that is worth those points for that role in your army. What I keep asking myself in my head is, "Ok, I'm playing Sylvaneth. Can I field anything for 485 points that can camp on an objective?" But honestly I think I'm just proud of my conversion/paint job and want to put him on the table a few times. I can never figure out if I'm trying to win or look awesome losing. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogmantra Posted January 28, 2022 Share Posted January 28, 2022 Rather than talk about competitive viability, to answer the question you initially asked: whether Gotrek is cheesey or interesting, I'm definitely in the latter camp, with the caveat that Gotrek is a sometimes food. I've played a handful of games against Gotrek and I find what he does to the dynamic of the game to be really interesting, really concentrating power in a single small point on the board. With him being so slow it really feels like positioning becomes super important because if something gets too near him, it will die. I also think that a particular strength and something I wish existed more (albeit in a less extreme fashion) is his ability to reduce all damage he takes to 1. I like that it makes a meaningful difference between fewer stronger attacks and more weaker attacks beyond reliability. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zilberfrid Posted February 5, 2022 Share Posted February 5, 2022 On 1/28/2022 at 6:52 PM, Ormly said: What I keep asking myself in my head is, "Ok, I'm playing Sylvaneth. Can I field anything for 485 points that can camp on an objective?" But honestly I think I'm just proud of my conversion/paint job and want to put him on the table a few times. I can never figure out if I'm trying to win or look awesome losing. Looking awesome losing is also winning in your display cabinet, so you win more than you lose. Field that Root King! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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