AoS 3 - Kruleboyz Discussion

[Ganigumo]

I've found myself relying on lots of screens instead of bodies, usually 4-5 of them in some combination of hobgrots, spider riders, and rippa's snarlfangs. Plus the gitz allies actually have decent movement so you can rush up and create some distance, or grab an uncontested objective.

It would be really nice if some of our monster had a bit more rend though, they don't throw as many dice around so its far easier for them to whiff.

[woolf]

new wolfriders might be good as ally option (and also other pieces of Gits if they get some glow up as well..)

[Magnus The Blue]

23 hours ago, Ganigumo said:

I've found myself relying on lots of screens instead of bodies, usually 4-5 of them in some combination of hobgrots, spider riders, and rippa's snarlfangs. Plus the gitz allies actually have decent movement so you can rush up and create some distance, or grab an uncontested objective.

It would be really nice if some of our monster had a bit more rend though, they don't throw as many dice around so its far easier for them to whiff.

Yeah, I'm not a fan of too many points used on screens when we already have to spend a lot of points on buff pieces (Sloggoth, Shamans and Swapraker).  Feels you end up with very points left to spend on actually trying to kill the other army. We are a finesse army but I still want to have plenty of Gutrippas/Killabosses/Breakabosses to do the heavy lifting. 

[Arzalyn]

18 hours ago, woolf said:

new wolfriders might be good as ally option (and also other pieces of Gits if they get some glow up as well..)

I know it will not happen, but I would love if they had the kruleboyz keyword to give us a proper cavalry option...

[woolf]

58 minutes ago, Arzalyn said:

I know it will not happen, but I would love if they had the kruleboyz keyword to give us a proper cavalry option...

yeah that would be cool.. im assuming they will just be like all other ligth cav in the general though; fast, good for screening and some cheeky objective grabbing, no real punch though.

regardless i dont like spiders (too creepy) so quite happy that this option will become available as the models look really cool

[Ganigumo]

4 hours ago, Magnus The Blue said:

Yeah, I'm not a fan of too many points used on screens when we already have to spend a lot of points on buff pieces (Sloggoth, Shamans and Swapraker).  Feels you end up with very points left to spend on actually trying to kill the other army. We are a finesse army but I still want to have plenty of Gutrippas/Killabosses/Breakabosses to do the heavy lifting. 

If you're not using screens you just get blown up because we're so slow.
Finesse armies are usually very mobile, because without mobility you can't pick your engagements.
The vulture is fast, and I love it as a piece, but it generally fails as a damage piece because the damage is way too swingy.

[Magnus The Blue]

2 minutes ago, Ganigumo said:

If you're not using screens you just get blown up because we're so slow.
Finesse armies are usually very mobile, because without mobility you can't pick your engagements.
The vulture is fast, and I love it as a piece, but it generally fails as a damage piece because the damage is way too swingy.

I'm not saying no screens at all.  Definitely a fine balance.

[Ganigumo]

True, I ran into a lot of Ironjawz and nighthaunt at the events I went to, and there screens were super important.

[Magnus The Blue]

Being playing with ideas for optimising my Melee focused Grinning Blades and looking for some thoughts from the community:

Do people rate the now cheaper Killa-Bosses?  They seem like reasonably good value on paper and the amount of Inspiring Presence denying abilities about means "All Part of the Plan" is very useful to have, but is that enough to squeeze their way into competitive lists (outside the obvious Corpserippa for double unleash hell in shooting lists)?

Is a Sloggoth essential, nice to have or only worth it unless you're using a lot of monsters? Small impact across lots of units and lack of synergy with poisoned weapons makes it hard for me to judge in the few games I've had.

[Ganigumo]

I think the vulture-boss is very good, I liked it at the old points.
The gnashtoof one is just awful. We have so many better units fighting for those leader slots that he's not even in the conversation. If you're abandoning low drops you're better off spamming sludgerakers, vultures and mirebrutes.
I could see bringing the foot one if you're running big units of gutrippaz, but big units of gutrippaz aren't much of a competitive pick at the moment, especially in the world of bounty hunters.

Sloggoth is a solid pick in a monster heavy list I think, you often want all out attack on mirebrutes and our monsters, if you're running lots of gutrippaz I wouldn't bother.

IMO our melee builds are crippled by gutrippaz and our army compostion. The army really needs to be low drop to be competitive, we're short on CP, very weak when doubled and easy to be caught out of position, having the choice for the turn order lets you manage these issues somewhat, but all of our best melee threats are leaders, which making a low drop melee list tough.

[Magnus The Blue]

2 minutes ago, Ganigumo said:

I think the vulture-boss is very good, I liked it at the old points.
The gnashtoof one is just awful. We have so many better units fighting for those leader slots that he's not even in the conversation. If you're abandoning low drops you're better off spamming sludgerakers, vultures and mirebrutes.
I could see bringing the foot one if you're running big units of gutrippaz, but big units of gutrippaz aren't much of a competitive pick at the moment, especially in the world of bounty hunters.

Thanks for all that.  Can I ask why you find the Vulture so good (compared to the Gnashtooth)?  They seem comparible on paper, unless your getting a lot of use from the multi-commands.

Also, any thoughts on the Rogue Idol.  Feels like a solid option.

 

[Ganigumo]

I haven't gotten any games in with my rogue idol, its sitting on my desk waiting to be painted, but it actually fits into battalions so thats a definite plus.

As for the vulture while the multi-command ability is very useful, it mostly just brings something the rest of the army is terrible at, mobility. The gnashtoof isn't slow with move 10, but the extra move, plus fly, plus being a sneaky miasma target let you get him nearly anywhere you want him to be. He just enables things you can't do with anything else in the army, and is a good general choice since its easy to position him to use the waaagh! Damagewise he's not great, averages out at like 10ish I think, but it tends to spike very hard in either direction. I rate the movement very high for kruleboyz, as most of the army is just flat move 5, with no mobility tricks at all.

Gobsprakk does a lot of the same things for more points, but is a wizard and can't take enhancements (like fast 'un). Now that the shamans can cast and give out poisons I rate him lower since he's on the same casting bonus as they are, but there's probably some play with him anyway, and he opens up more casts for stuff like endless spells if you want to bring some.

[woolf]

5 hours ago, Ganigumo said:

I think the vulture-boss is very good, I liked it at the old points.
The gnashtoof one is just awful. We have so many better units fighting for those leader slots that he's not even in the conversation. If you're abandoning low drops you're better off spamming sludgerakers, vultures and mirebrutes.
I could see bringing the foot one if you're running big units of gutrippaz, but big units of gutrippaz aren't much of a competitive pick at the moment, especially in the world of bounty hunters.

Sloggoth is a solid pick in a monster heavy list I think, you often want all out attack on mirebrutes and our monsters, if you're running lots of gutrippaz I wouldn't bother.

IMO our melee builds are crippled by gutrippaz and our army compostion. The army really needs to be low drop to be competitive, we're short on CP, very weak when doubled and easy to be caught out of position, having the choice for the turn order lets you manage these issues somewhat, but all of our best melee threats are leaders, which making a low drop melee list tough.

This post is spot on imo, can only second..

cheers

[Arzalyn]

20 hours ago, Ganigumo said:

The gnashtoof one is just awful. We have so many better units fighting for those leader slots that he's not even in the conversation. If you're abandoning low drops you're better off spamming sludgerakers, vultures and mirebrutes.
I could see bringing the foot one if you're running big units of gutrippaz, but big units of gutrippaz aren't much of a competitive pick at the moment, especially in the world of bounty hunters.

I had some success with the gnashtoof as a fast (for our army standards) and durable piece. The base 3+ save can give him some resilience to hold a unit in place or hold a objective for more than 1 turn. He has all the downsides you said (been a hero with 10 wounds), but his base save give it a role that nothing in the army can fulfill, albeit a niche one.

[Vasshpit]

I want to run three sometime as my calvary just to see what happens. 🤘

[Skreech Verminking]

6 hours ago, Vasshpit said:

I want to run three sometime as my calvary just to see what happens. 🤘

And what happens usually??

I would literally be interested, after all I’ve never played against kruelboyz or as a kruelboyz army using kruelboyz models, even tough I own….

I guess 3 units.

although teo of them were heavily converted into skaven to be used as clawlords on brood horrors 

[Vasshpit]

@Skreech Verminking

I do not know either BUT if I ever do I shall post the results here promptly. 

it's funny as I'm currently getting some gutrippaz finished and as I was taking a break and eyeballing up said models it dawned on me how well they'd make skaven conversion material. 

Edited December 9, 2022 by Vasshpit

[Skreech Verminking]

24 minutes ago, Vasshpit said:

@Skreech Verminking

I do not know either BUT if I ever do I shall post the results here promptly. 

it's funny as I'm currently getting some gutrippaz finished and as I was taking a break and eyeballing up said models it dawned on me how well they'd make skaven conversion material. 

They do, don’t they

[Ganigumo]

On 12/9/2022 at 8:40 AM, Arzalyn said:

I had some success with the gnashtoof as a fast (for our army standards) and durable piece. The base 3+ save can give him some resilience to hold a unit in place or hold a objective for more than 1 turn. He has all the downsides you said (been a hero with 10 wounds), but his base save give it a role that nothing in the army can fulfill, albeit a niche one.

Its a niche with too high an entry cost to be competitive.

If they drop to 9 wounds theyre much better.

On 12/9/2022 at 10:11 AM, Vasshpit said:

I want to run three sometime as my calvary just to see what happens. 🤘

One of the things on my shortlist of fixes i'd like was that this guy and the footboss get chain fighting, both because its becoming standard, but also so this guy could serve as a pseudo heavy cav option as 2-3 could fight in succession.

Him being 10 wounds is still his biggest problem though.

[Koradrel of Chrace]

Hey all, I'm sorting through my backlog and finally getting around to the Kruleboyz portion of my Dominion box.  Can any one suggest some good ideas for color schemes for a Hysh based army?  I was thinking a sickly yellow for the regular Kruleboyz, but I'm not sure what to do with the Hobgrotz and monster critters.

[Magnus The Blue]

Not sure if people have see already but leaked GHB is saying Gutrippas are down another 10 points, Gnashtooth down 20, killaboss on foot down 10, Shaman down 5 and Killabow Down 10.

At 130 the Gnashtooth is starting to look really tasty and with G Champs the foot Killaboss isn't too shabby either.  

150 Gutrippas are at last starting to look like a solid unit .

[Ganigumo]

On 1/6/2023 at 3:55 AM, Magnus The Blue said:

Not sure if people have see already but leaked GHB is saying Gutrippas are down another 10 points, Gnashtooth down 20, killaboss on foot down 10, Shaman down 5 and Killabow Down 10.

At 130 the Gnashtooth is starting to look really tasty and with G Champs the foot Killaboss isn't too shabby either.  

150 Gutrippas are at last starting to look like a solid unit .

Imo these changes arent going to do much.

None of the good stuff got buffed, but a bunch of weak stuff did, but not really in a way that will help. Like the gnashtoof is cheap now, but would you use one of your leader slots on it instead of sonething like a mirebrute?

I suspect its intentional though, since they probably want to see how KB do in the new season before making more big changes.

I don't think we're a big winner with the new rules though. We lost the ability to snipe heroes without ruining our drops, our champs are very slow, and even without bounty hunters and at 150 points I doubt gutrippaz will make a splash. Their warscroll is basically only good as chaff, which we have better options for.  

[woolf]

yeah and most factions seems to have got similar drops in points so relative balance probably wont change much from the point update. new season rules will impact ofc and there armies like NH, IJ, Khorne seems like the obvious winners since no shooting of their own and great small support heroes

[Magnus The Blue]

3 hours ago, Ganigumo said:

Imo these changes arent going to do much.

None of the good stuff got buffed, but a bunch of weak stuff did, but not really in a way that will help. Like the gnashtoof is cheap now, but would you use one of your leader slots on it instead of sonething like a mirebrute?

I suspect its intentional though, since they probably want to see how KB do in the new season before making more big changes.

I don't think we're a big winner with the new rules though. We lost the ability to snipe heroes without ruining our drops, our champs are very slow, and even without bounty hunters and at 150 points I doubt gutrippaz will make a splash. Their warscroll is basically only good as chaff, which we have better options for.  

This update was clearly focused on internal balance and other armies got similar boosts to less played units.  With that in mind we did quite well out of it.  

Personally I think the Gnashtooth compares very well to the mirebrute now, less killy but faster, a lot cheaper, arguably tougher and a decent aura to help with battle shock.

[Smash]

14 hours ago, Ganigumo said:

I don't think we're a big winner with the new rules though. We lost the ability to snipe heroes without ruining our drops, our champs are very slow, and even without bounty hunters and at 150 points I doubt gutrippaz will make a splash. Their warscroll is basically only good as chaff, which we have better options for.  

I actually think the new rules are good for us. I agree with your point about boltboyz, but our gutrippaz I think will fare fine with spears. The new command to sacrifice pile in for 1 extra attack, seems pretty good with spear range and mortal wound fishing. With this point decrease gutrippaz are similar to ard boyz in wounds per point. We already have galletian heroes included in our list, which is a bonus. 

That said I think Chaos who can summon in galletian heroes gonna have a big edge regards to completing battle tactics this season. And Kruelboyz will not be a strong faction, but I do think we are a bit better off than last season at least!