Double Turn begone! AoS should get rid of the double-turn

[Enoby]

1 hour ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

I definitely believe that strategy games are better if the strength of alpha strikes is mitigated in some way. In AoS, the double turn serves that function. However, I think there are other designs could do it better, particularly because of what some people in this thread have mentioned

I do think you've raised some good points, and I wonder if simultaneous casualties would help mitigate this to an extent; I think this may have been an apocalypse rule. 

So, from memory, how it worked was that you attack with a unit, tally up the damage it caused (but don't apply it yet), and then attack with the opposing unit (again tallying up the damage but not applying). After everyone has attacked, you apply the damage and take away casualties. I'm not sure how this worked with shooting, but it may be that shooting phases were simultaneous too.

I think this was added to save time, but it is an effective countermeasure against alpha strikes.  It does come with its own issues, in that there's less reward for tactics (because it's bound to be a bloodbath on both sides unless you can pre-emptively debuff an opponent), but it does get rid of the issue where your favourite units are put back in the box without doing anything at all. 

I don't think it's a perfect solution, but it's something I'd want to try in AoS, just to see how it feels. I can see some potential issues developing, especially when it comes to greater tactical input (perhaps the unit that strikes first should get a bonus to give some reason to do it) and certain abilities no longer working (though I think they did have a rule that strike first did cause casualties before the strike back), but I think it'd remove the risk of melee alpha strike altogether. 

[Beliman]

35 minutes ago, Enoby said:

So, from memory, how it worked was that you attack with a unit, tally up the damage it caused (but don't apply it yet), and then attack with the opposing unit (again tallying up the damage but not applying). After everyone has attacked, you apply the damage and take away casualties. I'm not sure how this worked with shooting, but it may be that shooting phases were simultaneous too.

That's really easy to do for the Combat Phase: Remove 13.3.1 Allocate Wounds  from the Attack Sequence (only for the Combat Phase) and write a new sub-phase at the end (after strike last) of the Combat Phase (12.0).

Shooting is a bit tricky because there are armies that doesn't have any shooting and the Ranged Phase doesn't use Alternative Activations like the Combat one. Changing the Shooting Phase to be like the Combat Phase could work, but it will change the meta in to something a lot more shooty, and that's something that I don't want to see (before you ask, I'm a KO player).

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

8 minutes ago, Beliman said:

Shooting is a bit tricky because there are armies that doesn't have any shooting and the Ranged Phase doesn't use Alternative Activations like the Combat one. Changing the Shooting Phase to be like the Combat Phase could work, but it will change the meta in to something a lot more shooty, and that's something that I don't want to see (before you ask, I'm a KO player).

That would depend on how it is implemented: If you allow all shooting units to shoot in both your and your opponent's shooting phase, then yes. If you are only allowed to return fire to opposing units that have already shot, then not necessarily.

[RuneBrush]

1 hour ago, Enoby said:

I'm not sure how this worked with shooting, but it may be that shooting phases were simultaneous too.

I had it in my head that in Apoc pretty much everything was simultaneous and you just resolved damage at the end of the round after both players had finished.  I reckon alternating phases and resolving damage in one block would make a pretty brutal turn one and two 😂