AoS 3 - Maggotkin of Nurgle Discussion

[Kasper]

On 1/19/2022 at 12:25 PM, Zeblasky said:

So, Tldr: Pussgoyle Blightlords are tanky, fast and can deal great damage, so they are very good at everything. Enjoy them before FAQ drops.

What are you expecting the FAQ to change? I mean Blightkings do better damage, its just that they are slow so its the age old situation where you sacrifice a bit of damage for superior movement.

[Kasper]

On 1/19/2022 at 12:25 PM, Zeblasky said:

P.S. Oh, and Overpowering Stench is a must have on your general. It can break an opposing army if your general is placed just right.

Stench seems alright but from my own experience the actual impact is very limited. Having to be wholly within 7" is quite a big ask and stopping units from issuing commands is generally not that big of a deal, unless you are fighting on a far flank with no general/hero nearby or you manage to "gotcha" your opponent with the ability by getting within 7" of a nearby hero. Otherwise it just seems to do nothing. Its generally difficult to get entire units wholly within 7" of him imo. 

As you mentioned his profile is also kinda weak. Hes just tanky which is obviously valuable. 

Personally I prefer Spume because he allows deepstriking Orgotths as an example.

[Fellman]

A bloody 1000p game vs dragons lost 42-36 and left one dagon alive
 

[Turragor]

Played this at a small tourney, was really satisfied and found it pretty engaging (if a lot of book-keeping):

Allegiance: Maggotkin of Nurgle

- Subfaction: Befouling Host

- Grand Strategy: Hold the Line

- Triumphs:

Great Unclean One (495)*

- General: Nurgling Infestation

- Witherstave

- Fleshy Abundance

- Bell & blade

Gutrot Spume (170)*

Horticulous Slimux (225)**

10 x Plaguebearers (150)*

10 x Plaguebearers (150)**

5 x Putrid Blightkings (250)*

5 x Putrid Blightkings (250)**

3 x Nurglings (105)**

3 x Plague Drones (200)*

*Battle Regiment

**Battle Regiment

Total: 1995 / 2000

Reinforced Units: 0 / 4

Allies: 0 / 400

Wounds: 143

Drops: 2

Edited January 23, 2022 by Turragor

[Drujeful]

8 minutes ago, Turragor said:

Played this at a small tourney, was really satisfied and found it pretty engaging (if a lot of book-keeping):

Allegiance: Maggotkin of Nurgle

- Subfaction: Befouling Host

- Grand Strategy: Hold the Line

- Triumphs:

Great Unclean One (495)*

- General: Nurgling Infestation

- Witherstave

- Fleshy Abundance

- Bell & blade

Gutrot Spume (170)*

Horticulous Slimux (225)**

10 x Plaguebearers (150)*

10 x Plaguebearers (150)**

5 x Putrid Blightkings (250)*

5 x Putrid Blightkings (250)**

3 x Nurglings (105)**

3 x Plague Drones (200)*

*Battle Regiment

**Battle Regiment

Total: 1995 / 2000

Reinforced Units: 0 / 4

Allies: 0 / 400

Wounds: 143

Drops: 2

Could you give a quick battle report? I just barely started getting into Nurgle with a Vanguard box and GUO and have been trying to decide what kinda army to go for. Your list looks super interesting so I'd love to read about how it plays.

[Turragor]

Sure! I had 3 great games:

(The Vice) Ogor Mawtribes. Major Win.

(Survival of the Fittest) Nighthaunt Olynder & Nagash. Major Loss.

(Power Struggle) Seraphon Dracothians Tail, skinks, slann and Gotrek. Major Win.

Though I lost the 2nd (Nagash is not a good matchup into a disease/contagion point approach I found) I did well on tactics and obj control, amassing 22 pts versus 30 pts.

In broad terms I dropped Slimux's gnarlmaw r1. I'd have 3 trees r1 and (with bell) 8 or so contagion points. I aimed to pop up nurgling unit r1 and they always survived (even v 10 hexwraiths) to give me 3 extra CP r2. I'd already have enough for 10 replacement plaguebearers if a screen was lost.

R2 I'd bring in Gutrot and the bks for savage spearhead/to ensure the nurglings were ignored or irrelevant in terms of gaining 3 CP for opponents territory. They'd try a long charge but that was just a bonus (as was the case game 1 when they tagged some yhetees preventing them threatening obj on my right side. They then ping ponged into a stonehorn and killed it (with disease and masses of attacks) the turns after. Most of the time, though, they threatened opponents home obj and gave me spearhead/ contagion points.

If I didn't summon pbs, I summoned beasts of nurgle because I painted them the night before. But they come in units of max 1. So it was a bit underwhelming for summoning. They would benefit (my main change in a new, similar list I think) from starting with slimux instead of 10 x pbs.

I think 3 drones would also be easily attainable r2 which would be a big deal in some matchups.

So that's it really, the idea is to get summoning points and stack disease points.

I was very satisfied with each game! And this is from someone who otherwise plays stormcast and is painting 9 stormdrake guard. I really like how nurgle play right now. You won't have ppl claiming your meta chasing (though this might change in a month or two). You have a lot of options for builds. You've interesting and thematic mechanics and these mechanics aren't super reliant on direct damage output or taking the double turn.

It's a resilient, inexorable play style

Edited January 23, 2022 by Turragor

[Drujeful]

Very nice, thanks! I like the idea of a summoning army that’s super thematic. I like Pusgoyle Blightlords a lot, so maybe there’s something of a little bit of a mix with them instead of Drones if the points work out. 
 

As far as summoning goes, what do you usually have on hand? Do you keep a varied spread of stuff so you can choose what to summon at any given moment or do you usually just have like an extra unit of Nurglings, Plaguebearers, and a Beast or two?

[spenson]

I had 2 games this weekend with this list:

Allegiance: Maggotkin of Nurgle
- Subfaction: Drowned Men
- Grand Strategy: Hold the Line
- Triumphs: Indomitable

Leaders
Great Unclean One (495)*
- General
- Bile Blade & Massive Bilesword
- Command Trait: Nurgling Infestation
- Artefact: The Witherstave
- Lore of Virulence: Stream of Corruption
Lord of Afflictions (210)*
- Artefact: The Splithorn Helm
Festus the Leechlord (150)*
- Lore of Malignance: Magnificent Buboes
Orghotts Daemonspew (300)

Battleline
10 x Plaguebearers (150)
10 x Plaguebearers (150)
2 x Pusgoyle Blightlords (220)
2 x Pusgoyle Blightlords (220)

Units
3 x Nurglings (105)*

Core Battalions
*Warlord
Hunters of the Heartlands

Additional Enhancements
Artefact

Total: 2000 / 2000
Reinforced Units: 0 / 4
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 130
Drops: 9

The first game was against IJ (2 maw krushas, 6 pigs, etc. nothing out of the ordinary) on Tectonic Interference. I rolled a 1 on the wheel but my opponent chose tot take first turn.

I managed to kill both maw and 5/6 gore gruntas by the end of round 1 but I still only won by 10 points at the end because getting on the objectives isn't that easy as nurgle. I don't have much to say, our heroes are way too tanky with a 4++ and IJ really hate any form of MW.

The second games was against lumineths (Sevireth+spirit+40 sentinels) on the Vice. This was probably one of the least interesting game I've ever played but I still needed to know the matchup. My GUO died on T1 and without anything left to deal any wound at all to the spirits, I just stayed on my objectives and tried to score as many battle tactics as I could.

The games weren't very interesting overall but it happens.

Edited January 23, 2022 by spenson

[TaurielBlack]

Tried this out, and I’m liking it, but wondering if I could make it better 🤔🤷‍♂️

[Zeblasky]

On 1/22/2022 at 12:01 PM, Kasper said:

What are you expecting the FAQ to change? I mean Blightkings do better damage, its just that they are slow so its the age old situation where you sacrifice a bit of damage for superior movement.

I expect them to go up in points of course. Basically having a fast unit for 440 that is as tanky as Mega with old Amulet and can also do a lot of mortals is not okay. Blightkings doing more damage is also not quite true. If they are going up against low wound 4+ or worse save models, then yes, it is true. But if we're talking about 1+ save monster or my favourite 2+ save phoenix (4+ save plus 2 to its save), then Blightlords are quite superior due to their mortals on charge. That way high save high wound models are a great answer to Blightkings. But, more importantly, Blightkings are very slow. In certain missions it can be 2-3 movement phases, before they can get to the objective on the opponent side, and you can easily block them, kite them or shoot them off the board before they make any impact. They CAN deal more damage, but a smart opponent won't let them do it.

If you want something to tank damage, you take Plaguebearers. If you want something to get where they are needed and do damage, you take Blightlords. Blightkings are in between and are kinda overshadowed in both roles at the moment.

[Turragor]

12 hours ago, Drujeful said:

Very nice, thanks! I like the idea of a summoning army that’s super thematic. I like Pusgoyle Blightlords a lot, so maybe there’s something of a little bit of a mix with them instead of Drones if the points work out. 
 

As far as summoning goes, what do you usually have on hand? Do you keep a varied spread of stuff so you can choose what to summon at any given moment or do you usually just have like an extra unit of Nurglings, Plaguebearers, and a Beast or two?

I am painting up my bilepiper and scrivener as I think they'll be excellent additions (dont need to be in the list r1 but you can get them in r2 for engagements) when things are going well and you need more damage.

I also prefer a beast for attempted damage (unless I'd summoned a scrivener / bilepiper in previous rounds) and a bit of 'mobility' with slimux for hit bonus.

For the most part 10 plaguebearers are going to be a staple summon imo. You could probably have 30 plague bearers summoned over the course of the game, keeping objectives pretty secure.

[aceytrixx]

How has mortal nurgle been going? Seem to see lots of lists with a very Deamon heavy lean.

Allegiance: Maggotkin of Nurgle
- Subfaction: Droning Guard
- Grand Strategy: Hold the Line
- Triumphs: Inspired

Leaders
Lord of Afflictions (210)*
- General
- Command Trait: Overpowering Stench
- Artefact: The Shield of Growths
Orghotts Daemonspew (300)*

Battleline
5 x Putrid Blightkings (250)*
5 x Putrid Blightkings (250)*
5 x Putrid Blightkings (250)*
4 x Pusgoyle Blightlords (440)*
- Reinforced x 1
2 x Pusgoyle Blightlords (220)*

Core Battalions
*Battle Regiment

Total: 1920 / 2000
Reinforced Units: 1 / 4
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 130
Drops: 1
 

Like this sort of thing.

[Drujeful]

8 hours ago, Turragor said:

I am painting up my bilepiper and scrivener as I think they'll be excellent additions (dont need to be in the list r1 but you can get them in r2 for engagements) when things are going well and you need more damage.

I also prefer a beast for attempted damage (unless I'd summoned a scrivener / bilepiper in previous rounds) and a bit of 'mobility' with slimux for hit bonus.

For the most part 10 plaguebearers are going to be a staple summon imo. You could probably have 30 plague bearers summoned over the course of the game, keeping objectives pretty secure.

Excellent, gives me a great starting point to understanding what I should collect beyond the army list itself.

[Archibald]

19 hours ago, TaurielBlack said:

Tried this out, and I’m liking it, but wondering if I could make it better 🤔🤷‍♂️

Exchange LoP and Sorcerer for a  second Maggothlord.💪

[Causalis]

So, after a few games with the new book I want to give my impression of it.

Overall I really like the book's internal balance and feel. I also played with the old book and it always felt really weird that Nurgle of all things would be one of the fastest armies out there. 

Subfactions:

Previously these were list- and game-defining. But tbh one mostly just saw Munificent Wanderers. Now these are vastly less powerful - a theme that seems to be the new trend in this edition. I'm ok with this. It opens up the listbuilding a bit more.

 

Army rules:

Yay, mortals finally get DR! I am a big fan of the Diseased mechanic. I know people cry a bit that its "strictly worse than 6s to hit MWs" we had before. But actually it's not. Let me explain: Previously one would buff a blob of Plaguebearers or some Flies with extra attacks, cast Blades on them and use AoA to get mortal wounds on 5s to hit. That was often enough to delete a unit or do some serious damage. This, indeed, is gone. Instead, the army now does MORE mortal wounds but spread out over several units and over more turns. In essence, we went from a laser to a wide spread.

 

Units:

GUO:

The big boy himself had a drastic change in his role! Previously almost exclusively a buff-piece, he is now a combat monster. He really packs a punch and is incredibly tanky, especially if you take the Emerald Lifeswarm with him. While I'm a big fan, I also think that almost 500p is a bit too much atm. The GUO's warscroll spell is utter rubbish! It is a worse version of Gift of Disease in every way. And whilst he does good damage in combat he has to compete against e.g. Orghotts who does comparable damage and is also almost as tanky. So the question arises why you would take the GUO over the Maggoth Lord since he simply doesn't bring 200p of extra goodness to the table.

 

Maggoth Lords:

These 3 guys are all fantastic now! Orghotts is probably the best since he hits quite hard and can give a free command each round, right on his heels comes Bloab who has a nice debuff aura and a great spell. Lastly Morbidex who is overshadowed by the other two.

 

Sloppity/Scrivener:

They stayed almost exactly the same. Still good for buffing. Moving on.

 

Blightkings:

My fat meatbags are actually good now! The thing I like the most about them is that they are really independent. Best picked in units off 5 since they'll struggle with coherency otherwise.

 

Pusgoyles:

The new hotness right now! Just like their brethren on foot they act well independently of a hero. But I feel like you need to ram either 2x2 or a 4 man unit into a target to delete it. Just two Pusgoyles often don't cut it. 

 

Plaguebearers:

Oh, how the mighty have fallen! Previously they had a 5+ save, +1 save (locus), could worsen rend and were harder to hit in melee AND shooting. They lost all that to gain an additional wound, which is nice but they aren't as tough as they were before. And since there is almost no way of stacking attacks on them, they simply deal no damage at all. I often just bring them to have bodies on objectives or to buff them with Fleshy Abundance which makes them a nice tarpit.

 

Plague Drones:

I still like these guys. They are fast and essentially shotguns with their missile weapons. Sure, we see not many hordes these days but there still are enough 5 to 10 men units out there that they can generate a lot of shots. 

Beast of Nurgle:

A hidden gem if you ask me! I highly recommend taking one or two of these in every list. Their goal is simply to be reaaaally annoying by tying up enemy units. Charge those Fulminators or other units that get a bonus for charging or ping-pong them around the board. Any damage they deal is just gravy on top. Use them like mobile speed-bumps and don't forget that their impact hits ALL enemy units within 1", not just ONE enemy unit!

 

Nurglings:

Love these little troublemakers. I try to take one squad in each list just to have them appear in the enemy territory to generate extra summoning points. In almost all my games my opponent either diverted way more ressources than necessary to deal with them or ignored them and they gave me CP all game long.

 

Gnarlmaw:

Oh it's bad, it's so bad. It essencially just gives 1 CP and maybe coughs on some nearby enemies. I have no idea why it would be so expensive to summon since it hardly does anything. And I fully expect the exponential stacking to get FAQd. 

Edited January 24, 2022 by Causalis

[Ratty_McRatface]

The Glotkin.

What are everyone's thoughts on the dynamic trio? 

Not to poison the well but I think they are to swishy.  There stats are great but some things can just kill a 20 wound model with a 4+ armor and a 5+ ward save.

I feel they need more serviviblity: ten more wounds.  Keep them distinct from the other Nurgle lords and Keep them at 700 points but with 30 wounds now all the Nurgle numbers are happy.

Thoughts? feelings? Am I the only one worried that using this really cool model is making me a bit of a chump?

[kore5022]

31 minutes ago, Ratty_McRatface said:

The Glotkin.

What are everyone's thoughts on the dynamic trio? 

Not to poison the well but I think they are to swishy.  There stats are great but some things can just kill a 20 wound model with a 4+ armor and a 5+ ward save.

I feel they need more serviviblity: ten more wounds.  Keep them distinct from the other Nurgle lords and Keep them at 700 points but with 30 wounds now all the Nurgle numbers are happy.

Thoughts? feelings? Am I the only one worried that using this really cool model is making me a bit of a chump?

They either need to drop 100pts or gain some tankiness as you said. 

[Turragor]

11 hours ago, Causalis said:

So, after a few games with the new book I want to give my impression of it.

Overall I really like the book's internal balance and feel. I also played with the old book and it always felt really weird that Nurgle of all things would be one of the fastest armies out there. 

Subfactions:

Previously these were list- and game-defining. But tbh one mostly just saw Munificent Wanderers. Now these are vastly less powerful - a theme that seems to be the new trend in this edition. I'm ok with this. It opens up the listbuilding a bit more.

 

Army rules:

Yay, mortals finally get DR! I am a big fan of the Diseased mechanic. I know people cry a bit that its "strictly worse than 6s to hit MWs" we had before. But actually it's not. Let me explain: Previously one would buff a blob of Plaguebearers or some Flies with extra attacks, cast Blades on them and use AoA to get mortal wounds on 5s to hit. That was often enough to delete a unit or do some serious damage. This, indeed, is gone. Instead, the army now does MORE mortal wounds but spread out over several units and over more turns. In essence, we went from a laser to a wide spread.

 

Units:

GUO:

The big boy himself had a drastic change in his role! Previously almost exclusively a buff-piece, he is now a combat monster. He really packs a punch and is incredibly tanky, especially if you take the Emerald Lifeswarm with him. While I'm a big fan, I also think that almost 500p is a bit too much atm. The GUO's warscroll spell is utter rubbish! It is a worse version of Gift of Disease in every way. And whilst he does good damage in combat he has to compete against e.g. Orghotts who does comparable damage and is also almost as tanky. So the question arises why you would take the GUO over the Maggoth Lord since he simply doesn't bring 200p of extra goodness to the table.

 

Maggoth Lords:

These 3 guys are all fantastic now! Orghotts is probably the best since he hits quite hard and can give a free command each round, right on his heels comes Bloab who has a nice debuff aura and a great spell. Lastly Morbidex who is overshadowed by the other two.

 

Sloppity/Scrivener:

They stayed almost exactly the same. Still good for buffing. Moving on.

 

Blightkings:

My fat meatbags are actually good now! The thing I like the most about them is that they are really independent. Best picked in units off 5 since they'll struggle with coherency otherwise.

 

Pusgoyles:

The new hotness right now! Just like their brethren on foot they act well independently of a hero. But I feel like you need to ram either 2x2 or a 4 man unit into a target to delete it. Just two Pusgoyles often don't cut it. 

 

Plaguebearers:

Oh, how the mighty have fallen! Previously they had a 5+ save, +1 save (locus), could worsen rend and were harder to hit in melee AND shooting. They lost all that to gain an additional wound, which is nice but they aren't as tough as they were before. And since there is almost no way of stacking attacks on them, they simply deal no damage at all. I often just bring them to have bodies on objectives or to buff them with Fleshy Abundance which makes them a nice tarpit.

 

Plague Drones:

I still like these guys. They are fast and essentially shotguns with their missile weapons. Sure, we see not many hordes these days but there still are enough 5 to 10 men units out there that they can generate a lot of shots. 

Beast of Nurgle:

A hidden gem if you ask me! I highly recommend taking one or two of these in every list. Their goal is simply to be reaaaally annoying by tying up enemy units. Charge those Fulminators or other units that get a bonus for charging or ping-pong them around the board. Any damage they deal is just gravy on top. Use them like mobile speed-bumps and don't forget that their impact hits ALL enemy units within 1", not just ONE enemy unit!

 

Nurglings:

Love these little troublemakers. I try to take one squad in each list just to have them appear in the enemy territory to generate extra summoning points. In almost all my games my opponent either diverted way more ressources than necessary to deal with them or ignored them and they gave me CP all game long.

 

Gnarlmaw:

Oh it's bad, it's so bad. It essencially just gives 1 CP and maybe coughs on some nearby enemies. I have no idea why it would be so expensive to summon since it hardly does anything. And I fully expect the exponential stacking to get FAQd. 

Gnarlmaws  - I think in befouling host (and maybe with horticulus) you are getting use out of them. You've 3 on the board r1 and that adds up.

If you only have one on the table all game, it's kind of super meh.

So for me personally, I'm drawn to befouling host for that reason (you also get battleline beasts iirc)

[Greasygeek]

FAQs up… well not that it made much of a difference.

[Turragor]

13 minutes ago, Greasygeek said:

FAQs up… well not that it made much of a difference.

I beg to differ on the tactic (but only that):

Page 82 – Battle Tactics, Gifts of Nurgle
Change to:
‘You complete this tactic if 3 or more friendly Maggotkin of
Nurgle units are within 3" of the same enemy unit at the end of
this turn.’

[Turragor]

This confuses me a bit but I think the only change ("other") means Horticulus can setup the tree within 3" of himself. Or do they mean the tree itself can be within 3" of itself? Whatever, it's not a big change

Page 90 – Horticulous Slimux, Cultivating the Garden of Nurgle
Change to:
‘Once per battle, at the start of your hero phase, you can set up 1
Feculent Gnarlmaw within 7" of this unit, more than 7" from all
other Feculent Gnarlmaws and more than 3" from all other models,
objectives, other terrain features, endless spells and invocations and
add it to your army.’

 

[Greasygeek]

2 minutes ago, Turragor said:

I beg to differ on the tactic (but only that):

Page 82 – Battle Tactics, Gifts of Nurgle
Change to:
‘You complete this tactic if 3 or more friendly Maggotkin of
Nurgle units are within 3" of the same enemy unit at the end of
this turn.’

Fair enough. Have yet to play a match game with my Maggotkin, so I wearent aware of the situation about that tactic.

On the other hand there was no mention on the Path to Glory battleplan issue. 
 

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

32 minutes ago, Greasygeek said:

FAQs up… well not that it made much of a difference.

It's good, though. It's mostly just bug fixes, but that's what the early FAQ/errata should be.

[ibel]

The FAQ is good. Glootkin had to go 40-100 Points down but ist okay so, his Countercharge is so a big big Game Changer against so many Armys (iamlooking at u Draconis/Dragoons or IJ )

Very good that no Point increase on Pusgoyle, very very Nize Unit (i Need more of them )

Whats more:

Most of them was clear: Rotbringer Coven - okay not good but not Suprise

Page 65 – Daemonic Boons of Nurgle, Noxious Nexus Change to: 

Mhmm not so bad if u play with "Stand and Grind your Enemy" Maybe a nize Idea for a 3 GUO Battalon ?!

 

[Drujeful]

3 hours ago, Greasygeek said:

Fair enough. Have yet to play a match game with my Maggotkin, so I wearent aware of the situation about that tactic.

On the other hand there was no mention on the Path to Glory battleplan issue. 
 

Are you talking about the free daemons thing, or is there another Path to Glory issue? Because I was really hoping for some clarification on free daemons, where they aren't included in the Order of Battle and whether or not you have to count their points toward your army. It's the word "free" that throws it off.