bonzai Posted January 8, 2022 Share Posted January 8, 2022 So I really like the 3.0 Path 2 Glory campaign as a foundation. However I think it has some serious issues when it comes to a competitive and interactive campaign between a set number of players. Here are what I see as issues. 1. There is no victory condition. This is an issues as in my experience players have limited attention span. These things need to have a set duration, otherwise players will get loose interest and it will fall apart. Having an over arching goal that you are working towards also helps people stay motivated. 2. There are little to no stakes. The only setbacks a player risks are casualties rolls. He can then go play some random games and be back stronger than before when he plays some one else participating in the campaign. No real risk or setbacks or consequences for defeat. 3. It is too self contained. It is everyone doing their own self contained narrative and not an interactive one in any meaningful way. A big part of the fun in games like this is the shared group narrative. So how do we improve upon it? The go to win condition in past editions was Glory points. This could be an option, but how many would be enough? It could present some interesting strategies. I also wouldn't mind some sort of Meta quest to achieve either. Regarding the rest, the first thing would be to only count games against other participants, and possibly cap the number of games per week that count towards progress. I also would like to ad a new quest called Raid. First you target one of your opponents territories. If you get a minor victory, you steal 10 Glory points from your opponent, with a major victory you remove any upgrades that it has. With these changes I think it ads sufficient stakes, and allows players to try and prevent a player from running away with it. Thoughts? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azlak the Damned Posted January 8, 2022 Share Posted January 8, 2022 2 hours ago, bonzai said: So I really like the 3.0 Path 2 Glory campaign as a foundation. However I think it has some serious issues when it comes to a competitive and interactive campaign between a set number of players. Here are what I see as issues. 1. There is no victory condition. This is an issues as in my experience players have limited attention span. These things need to have a set duration, otherwise players will get loose interest and it will fall apart. Having an over arching goal that you are working towards also helps people stay motivated. 2. There are little to no stakes. The only setbacks a player risks are casualties rolls. He can then go play some random games and be back stronger than before when he plays some one else participating in the campaign. No real risk or setbacks or consequences for defeat. 3. It is too self contained. It is everyone doing their own self contained narrative and not an interactive one in any meaningful way. A big part of the fun in games like this is the shared group narrative. So how do we improve upon it? The go to win condition in past editions was Glory points. This could be an option, but how many would be enough? It could present some interesting strategies. I also wouldn't mind some sort of Meta quest to achieve either. Regarding the rest, the first thing would be to only count games against other participants, and possibly cap the number of games per week that count towards progress. I also would like to ad a new quest called Raid. First you target one of your opponents territories. If you get a minor victory, you steal 10 Glory points from your opponent, with a major victory you remove any upgrades that it has. With these changes I think it ads sufficient stakes, and allows players to try and prevent a player from running away with it. Thoughts? I believe there will always be issues when trying to make PtG competitive, just as there are issues with standard matched play games. The key is to inject narrative into the campaign to link it all up. This takes effort from everyone involved. Additionally you don't want that one person gaming the campaign and always taking the 'best' items etc. So in my campaigns I stipulate random rolls for things like artefacts etc. Maybe use the Anvil of Apotheosis to have everyone great a custom Hero and link them all to a Meta Quest. I personally wouldn't cap the number of games a week but I agree that you should only count those games against other members of your campaign for any victory conditions. Sure if someone plays a lot of matches they'll have more options but they're limited to the weakest players limits each game anyway. I like the Raid quest idea. Definitely as more to the game play if there more at stake. I may use this in my campaigns in the future if you don't mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonzai Posted January 9, 2022 Author Share Posted January 9, 2022 2 hours ago, Azlak the Damned said: I like the Raid quest idea. Definitely as more to the game play if there more at stake. I may use this in my campaigns in the future if you don't mind. Borrow away Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NinthMusketeer Posted January 12, 2022 Share Posted January 12, 2022 I think GW has not provided content for the new PtG such that it is meaningful. It's a bland counterpart to 40k's Crusade and IMO it will always be pretty janky without heavy modification. I would even go so far as to advise an escalation league with matched play rules as a better choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonzai Posted January 13, 2022 Author Share Posted January 13, 2022 17 hours ago, NinthMusketeer said: I think GW has not provided content for the new PtG such that it is meaningful. It's a bland counterpart to 40k's Crusade and IMO it will always be pretty janky without heavy modification. I would even go so far as to advise an escalation league with matched play rules as a better choice. From what I can infer, they are planning on putting expansion packs out. Hopefully they will include victory conditions and Flesh it out more. I have run map based dawn of war style campaigns for 40k before. I have learned a lot from them, and was working towards converting it over to AoS. However if PtG was a workable system then I would use that instead. However I have the issues stated above with it. So I was looking to see what other people's solutions were. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NinthMusketeer Posted January 13, 2022 Share Posted January 13, 2022 I fixed up the old PtG system back during 1st-2nd edition, still continue due to update & use it. It's in my sig, if you're interested. If you have your own system that was already working (albeit for 40k) I would reccomend adapting it over trying to fix the current PtG. It's going to be a lot of effort either way so better to start with a system that works in another game than one which doesn't work for AoS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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