Getting wiped out

[Sutek]

This week I had a game using the three points of power scenario.  By the end of the 4th turn I was up 8-4 on victory points and in his 5th turn my opponent only scored 1 point.  He did however kill my last model. 

He then claimed he won a major victory because he wiped me out but I claimed it because I had more victory points.

I couldn't find anything in the rules for this situation.  Anyone know who won?

[WAAAGHdogg15]

I believe rules as written in the scenario dictate that you win as they say nothing about wiping out your opponent. A major victory is claimed by the player who has more victory points. Only if this is tied do you consult how many points you killed to decide a minor victory. Since you were ahead on VPs, you get the major. If you'd been tied, he'd have got the minor.

[Ratamaplata]

AFAIK the battle plan victory conditions are applied regardless of anything else. So if it says most points at end of round 5 wins, you won.

[Arkiham]

Doesn't he win a minor victory due to wiping out your army?

 

Can't claim a victory if you're all dead. 

[BrAiKo]

Why have scenarios then?  If you can always win by tabling the opponent, why not always go for that and ignore the scenario?  The scenario points trump all I would have thought.

[Sadysaneto]

Tabling is a tactic. Most of the time it wobt work, but sometimes will. You cant win if youre dead.

[WAAAGHdogg15]

The "Victory" section of the rules for the scenario mentions nothing about tabling (see pic). Yes it's a tactic and yes it might be a house rule in some gaming clubs, basements and tournaments, but by the wording of the scenario in the general's handbook, tabling doesn't get you an auto win. "The player with the most victory points at the end of the fifth battle round wins a major victory" speaks for itself to me, no mention of wiping your opponent out because the VPs are the whole point of the scenario.

I feel that the idea of tabling winning the match regardless of the scenario is a hangover from previous editions.

[Cerlin]

With the scenarios for matched play (or scenarios) they definitely override the stock rules.  So basically he has until the term limit to try to score vp uncontested. Generally if someone goes for hard killing this will be rougher. I have won many a moral victory this way. 

[Sadysaneto]

1 hour ago, WAAAGHdogg15 said:

The "Victory" section of the rules for the scenario mentions nothing about tabling (see pic). Yes it's a tactic and yes it might be a house rule in some gaming clubs, basements and tournaments, but by the wording of the scenario in the general's handbook, tabling doesn't get you an auto win. "The player with the most victory points at the end of the fifth battle round wins a major victory" speaks for itself to me, no mention of wiping your opponent out because the VPs are the whole point of the scenario.

I feel that the idea of tabling winning the match regardless of the scenario is a hangover from previous editions.

I was replying to braiko (forgot to quote), about "why run scenarios, then?". I was just trying to say that tabling doesnt negate scenarios, since they are not a easy fear in a 4 rounds match.

[WAAAGHdogg15]

Cool. Thought you were replying to me but makes sense now ?

I know my gaming club and local tournaments have used the house rule of tabling = major win regardless at times but wanted to be sure the OP was clear that it isn't the way the rule is worded in the GH.

[Darin Paul]

Sounds like your opponent forgot the most important rule.... reading the scenario and understanding the victory conditions.  I've played too many games where I became distracted and lost sight of the mission/objective.

[Lissë-Prime]

The scenario victory rule overrides common victory rules.

You can win by wiping out the enemy only if the scenario victory rule says so.

[Nico]

Yes - the GH Matched Play overrides all the scenario type stuff in the rules e.g. Triumphs.

[Sutek]

So I won then. Cool.

[daedalus81]

9 hours ago, arnoldrew said:

Does anything in the rules say the game ends if one side kills the other? If not, a player could wipe out the other side by, say, turn three (I've seen it), and then try to run around and get objective points.

Right - the existing player can still finish up the remaining turns to try and score as much as possible.

[Payce]

You won the game, simple as.

The "Can't win if you're dead"-argument is just old editions talking. The scenario victory conditons trumps everything. From what you describe, you won 8-5 since VPs aren't lost when you're tabled, only your opportunity to halt the opponent's scoring.

[Akempist]

It's definitely the scenario that dictates who wins.

Did the Spartans "win" at Thermopylae?

[Payce]

14 minutes ago, Akempist said:

It's definitely the scenario that dictates who wins.

Did the Spartans "win" at Thermopylae?

The Athenian fleet did

[arnoldrew]

Does anything in the rules say the game ends if one side kills the other? If not, a player could wipe out the other side by, say, turn three (I've seen it), and then try to run around and get objective points.

[Planar]

On 11/09/2016 at 4:22 PM, Payce said:

The Athenian fleet did

That was Salamina

[BaldoBeardo]

The other thing here is that it's far easier to write a list that can table an opponent than one that can win scenarios.

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