SBGL Battletome Update in December WD

[Lich King]

43 minutes ago, Nightseer2012 said:

I always liked the foot Vampires for their command ability already, letting them cast on a +2 is pretty awesome, and just reinforces my taking them for LoB. 

4 attacks on a Deathlance for the VLoZD is nothing to sneeze at, especially with those charges, but it sticks around so if he gets stuck in he at least has some more killing power.  Martial+Soulbound Raiment+Flaming Weapon+Premeditated Violence (Or just stick with Aura of Dark Majesty for more resilience)?  Then stick Foetid Breath on the mount, and your VLoZD will be doing a few more points of reliable damage a turn.

Exactly this

[Nightseer2012]

Note for people who use them;  Both Vampire templates created using the Anvil of Blood in WD issue #464 have the "Vampire Lord" keyword.  You then specifically create a LoB VL using a Deathlance to benefit from this issues "Martial" bonus (since there is no option for a Soulbound Blades weapon, only a Soulbound Rapier), while the "Arcane" bonus is a lot easier to make use of, since at no point does the Anvil of Blood system give your character a "Zombie Dragon" keyword.

Very niche for people who still use the Anvil rules, but it is there if you want it.

[Lich King]

Only problem with Arcane Vampires is that our Vampire Spells kinda suck 

[Gothmaug]

Having a +2 for that clutch mystic shield or endless spell is always a good thing. Just the psychological threat to your opponent of a +2 caster is enough to draw attention away from some other units. And  yes, the Vamp lore spells aren't great, BUT getting a +2 on spells that DOUBLECAST on a 9+ is very very nice. ((Though I could be mistaken,  I'd have to go grab a codex and see if its a doublecast on a unmodified 9+ or not)). 

 

Also with all the unique characters in soulblight, I find myself often finding room for that little non-unique Vamp lord on foot, just to be able to play enhancements and spell lores on.  

 

Overall, I'm happy the WD article seems to be a small buff, when it could have been a horrible nerf, or just generally un-usable. Everything in it apepars to be at least situationally useful (except perhaps for that mount trait that adds 1 unit to deathless minions). 

[BaylorCorvette]

9 minutes ago, Gothmaug said:

Having a +2 for that clutch mystic shield or endless spell is always a good thing. Just the psychological threat to your opponent of a +2 caster is enough to draw attention away from some other units. And  yes, the Vamp lore spells aren't great, BUT getting a +2 on spells that DOUBLECAST on a 9+ is very very nice. ((Though I could be mistaken,  I'd have to go grab a codex and see if its a doublecast on a unmodified 9+ or not)). 

Unfortunately it is unmodified cast rolls of 9+.

[Gothmaug]

You would think the MORTARCH keyword would automatically quality you as a LORD. Oh well   As for the Coven Throne, nothing screams VAMPIRE LORD to me more than some high society vampire sitting atop her floating undead throne attended by her coven of lesser vampires.

 

My Meta will probably change that for our narrative games. Have to say, of late we've been having more fun with the narrative games than matched play. The flexibility to create unique heroes through the various anvil of apotheosis rules (and last years generals handbook), has made for a very fun atmosphere, and fighting over actual terrain locations, or a specific goal, is way more appealing than controlling some random 6" circles spaced equally on the board. Drastically changes your lists too, and we see a lot more units that would be considered sub-par in matched play games. 

[Gothmaug]

3 minutes ago, BaylorCorvette said:

Unfortunately it is unmodified cast rolls of 9+.

yeah figured that might be the case. Still, I'll take an option for +1/+2 to cast, thats the only + to cast buff in our entire faction I believe. More tools for the toolbox. 

 

Besides, I really like Legion of Blood thematically, happy to see them get a buff. 

[Ghoooouls]

Even just having multiple +2 dispellers is insane imo. One of my biggest weaknesses when playing with soulblight is its difficult to dispel (arkhan used to fill that gap). So this is huge for me. Also a vamp on foot with 6 attacks is pretty cool, they're a bit too swingy at 4 attacks. Now we have two cool choices (in lob) for a measley 140 point lord with an inbuilt 3+ save and a caster. I'm super happy with that.

Also very happy with the battle trait. It'll come in nicely when I've got a wounded belladama or a foot vamp in particular, in combat, with a unit that'll definitely nuke the enemy unit. Now the hero can attack first to get the hunger heals and still not risk the enemy attacking back before killing them. The rest I could take or leave but they're nice to have as options, it'll be nice to reroll damage on dragon breath, I'm always rolling a 1. I was expecting some utter garbage so very happy with this additions to an army I already love.

[JackStreicher]

Mhm… I like the changes to vampires, it‘s too little however, since they should‘ve had 6 attacks from the start.

The casting bonus is nice.

The attack first for a summonable unit is weird: it‘s best on grave guard which are already good. I don‘t get why we get ZERO buff to non hero vampire units / non Summonable units apart from the Castelei AB. We really need +1 rend on Blood Knights and Vargheists imo.

Mount Traits: Baffled by the +1 units to be healed MT? I‘ve never ever even reached the max a singe hero could heal? It should have rephrased the ability to: Can heal any unit.

Edited December 13, 2021 by JackStreicher

[BaylorCorvette]

16 minutes ago, JackStreicher said:

Mhm… I like the changes to vampires, it‘s too little however, since they should‘ve had 6 attacks from the start.

The casting bonus is nice.

The attack first for a summonable unit is weird: it‘s best on grave guard which are already good. I don‘t get why we get ZERO buff to non hero vampire units / non Summonable units apart from the Castelei AB. We really need +1 rend on Blood Knights and Vargheists imo.

Mount Traits: Baffled by the +1 units to be healed MT? I‘ve never ever even reached the max a singe hero could heal? It should have rephrased the ability to: Can heal any unit.

Agreed with all of this. The Mount Traits are very lack luster. I was really hoping we would see the return of Mist Form, allowing our VLoZD's to retreat and still charge, or better yet just give them Riders of Ruin. Also would have liked to have seen a re-roll on The Hunger ability. Either for Legion of Blood or something. At the end of the day I wasn't expecting much from WD and I feel SBGL (an already good book) received a few more weapons to their arsenals which is just fine. I may try out Radukar the Beast to try and play with Deadly Coordination.

[Jaskier]

Forget the +2 to cast (which is perfect for Mystic Shield by the way.) The +2 to unbind and dispel is crazy given it's free. The Vampire Lord on foot is an auto-include in Legions of Blood now for that reason alone, and it helps that it is already an efficient choice further boosted by Deadly Coordination. I think Vrykos still does Grave Guard better thanks to the +1 to-wound (matchup dependent, I'd prefer ignoring modifiers against Lumineth for example) but this definitely gives Legion of Blood a very nice boost. 

[Tali182]

My Army which is every named Vrykos character, one normal vampire on foot and then summonable units really likes Deadly Coordination  

[JackStreicher]

Tbh: Deathly Coordination is what the Melusai Ironscale needs in order to make any sense.

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

10 hours ago, Jaskier said:

Forget the +2 to cast (which is perfect for Mystic Shield by the way.) The +2 to unbind and dispel is crazy given it's free. The Vampire Lord on foot is an auto-include in Legions of Blood now for that reason alone, and it helps that it is already an efficient choice further boosted by Deadly Coordination. I think Vrykos still does Grave Guard better thanks to the +1 to-wound (matchup dependent, I'd prefer ignoring modifiers against Lumineth for example) but this definitely gives Legion of Blood a very nice boost. 

I have been messing around with a Legion of Blood list with a Coven Throne and Grave Guard. I think with the coordination stuff and the free casting/unbinding bonuses, that list might finally be workable.

[Liquidsteel]

3 hours ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

I have been messing around with a Legion of Blood list with a Coven Throne and Grave Guard. I think with the coordination stuff and the free casting/unbinding bonuses, that list might finally be workable.

What are you thinking?

I've been trying to put something together that includes Neferata and a VLoZD, the below could be fun.

Spoiler

Allegiance: Soulblight Gravelords
- Lineage: Legion of Blood
- Grand Strategy: Prized Sorcery
- Triumphs: Inspired

Leaders
Vampire Lord on Zombie Dragon (435)
- General
- Deathlance
- Command Trait: Sanguine Blur
- Artefact: Amulet of Destiny (Universal Artefact)
- Lore of the Vampires: Amethystine Pinions

- Mount Trait: Foetid Miasma

- Martial Expertise
Neferata, Mortarch of Blood (365)*
- Lore of the Deathmages: Decrepify
Vampire Lord (140)*
- Universal Spell Lore: Levitate

- Arcane Expertise

Battleline
20 x Deadwalker Zombies (115)*
20 x Deadwalker Zombies (115)*
10 x Deathrattle Skeletons (85)*

Units
5 x Blood Knights (195)**
5 x Blood Knights (195)**
20 x Grave Guard (280)**
- Great Wight Blades
- Reinforced x 1
3 x Fell Bats (75)*

Core Battalions
*Battle Regiment
**Hunters of the Heartlands

Total: 2000 / 2000
Reinforced Units: 1 / 4
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 140
Drops: 5
 

 

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

Just now, Liquidsteel said:

What are you thinking?

I've been trying to put something together that includes Neferata and a VLoZD, the below could be fun.

  Hide contents

Allegiance: Soulblight Gravelords
- Lineage: Legion of Blood
- Grand Strategy: Prized Sorcery
- Triumphs: Inspired

Leaders
Vampire Lord on Zombie Dragon (435)
- General
- Deathlance
- Command Trait: Sanguine Blur
- Artefact: Amulet of Destiny (Universal Artefact)
- Lore of the Vampires: Amethystine Pinions

- Mount Trait: Foetid Miasma

- Martial Expertise
Neferata, Mortarch of Blood (365)*
- Lore of the Deathmages: Decrepify
Vampire Lord (140)*
- Universal Spell Lore: Levitate

- Arcane Expertise

Battleline
20 x Deadwalker Zombies (115)*
20 x Deadwalker Zombies (115)*
10 x Deathrattle Skeletons (85)*

Units
5 x Blood Knights (195)**
5 x Blood Knights (195)**
20 x Grave Guard (280)**
- Great Wight Blades
- Reinforced x 1
3 x Fell Bats (75)*

Core Battalions
*Battle Regiment
**Hunters of the Heartlands

Total: 2000 / 2000
Reinforced Units: 1 / 4
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 140
Drops: 5
 

 

That list looks fun! I could definitely see it working pretty well after the update.

My thinking for a coven throne list was this:

Legion of Blood has that trait where they get to ignore negative modifiers to hit and wound on deathrattle. The Coven Throne can give a unit of Grave Guard those +1 to hit and wound. Combined, that should be pretty terrifying. Mostly, I want to try it as a way to get my Coven Throne on the table. Legion of Blood just seems like the best fit for it, but until now they were kind of not good enough. I'll see if I can make a list that I like now, but I am kind of afraid that I won't be able to fit both the Coven Throne and a VLoZD in. I really wish the Throne was just a little cheaper.

I think LoB has potential now, though. Their magic might actually be among the best in Gravelords, given that they get access to very cheap +2 wizards now. An the new Coordination ability should help keep your combat/support heroes alive. I think shooting for a control/denial stlye list might work well, since you can also build an absolute anvil of a Zombie Dragon with Soulbound Garments and that -1 to be hit trait.

Maybe something like this:

Spoiler

Allegiance: Soulblight Gravelords
- Lineage: Legion of Blood
- Grand Strategy: Prized Sorcery
- Triumphs:

Leaders
Vampire Lord on Zombie Dragon (435)*
- General
- Deathlance
- Command Trait: Aura of Dark Majesty
- Artefact: Soulbound Garments
- Lore of the Vampires: Amethystine Pinions
Coven Throne (310)
- Lore of the Vampires: Vile Transference
Vampire Lord (140)*
- Lore of the Vampires: Soulpike
Necromancer (125)*
- Artefact: Arcane Tome (Universal Artefact)
- Lore of the Deathmages: Overwhelming Dread

Battleline
30 x Deathrattle Skeletons (255)**
- Reinforced x 2
40 x Deadwalker Zombies (230)**
- Reinforced x 1
10 x Dire Wolves (135)

Units
20 x Grave Guard (280)**
- Great Wight Blades
- Reinforced x 1
1 x Corpse Cart with Balefire Brazier (80)

Core Battalions
*Warlord
**Hunters of the Heartlands

Total: 1990 / 2000
Reinforced Units: 4 / 4
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 152
Drops: 9

The Throne pairs with the Grave Guard, the Vampire Lord (Arcane) pairs with the Zombies and the Necromancer pairs with the Skeletons. VLoZD (probably martial?) goes out on his own. Every unit has some kind of synergy: Grave Guard get +1 to saves from the Throne, which also has its warscroll spell that stops units from attacking, hopefully helping them stay alive a bit longer. The Zombies are mostly offensive and get +1 attack from the Lord, but which can also cast and unbind well now. The Skeletons get double heals from Vanhel's and -1 to be hit from Overwhelming Dread. The Corpse Cart also hangs out and provides a further -1 to wound/cast for the opponent. VLoZD is kitted for defense.

[Liquidsteel]

Sounds interesting, you'll definitely have to see how it plays out.

I don't actually own the Coven Throne myself, can't really be bothered building and painting one as it stands.

One thing to note, is that the the spell Shudder only prevents the unit targetting the throne itself, so Grave Guard nearby would still be free to be attacked.

[Doko]

Seeing you speak about throne.....i gonna go a bit offtopic.

 

How do you guys store you minis in your room?

 

I have limited space(only one little closet) and i hadnt problems with my dwarf city of sigmar army,stormcast and fyreslayers. But now i got krondys and i have started vampires.........how heck you store minis as krondys,manfred,coven throne,zombie dragon etc?

I hate get dust in my minis so i store them in closed plastic boxes,but get so big boxes for these minis makes very hard store them in the small closet and transport them to games

[Doko]

And also the cavalrys take so muuuuch space lol. Im used to small bases because in all my cos,sc and fyreslayers i only have one unit of wild riders and palladors.

Now i have 10 black knigths and 15 blood knigths and only these 25 models takes the same space than my 3000 and 2000 points of cos and fyreslayers lol

[Lich King]

Magnetize to carrying trays - there are cases you can buy which specialize in this; such as A - Case.

[Leshoyadut]

For the Coven Throne idea, I was thinking something along the lines of this.

Spoiler

Allegiance: Soulblight Gravelords
- Lineage: Legion of Blood
- Grand Strategy: Prized Sorcery
- Triumphs:

Leaders
Coven Throne (310)**
- Artefact: Amulet of Destiny (Universal Artefact)
- Lore of the Vampires: Vile Transference
Neferata, Mortarch of Blood (365)*
- Lore of the Deathmages: Fading Vigour
Vampire Lord (140)**
- Lore of the Vampires: Soulpike
Wight King on Skeletal Steed (130)**
- General
- Command Trait: Soul-crushing Contempt
- Artefact: Soulbound Garments

Battleline
10 x Dire Wolves (135)
10 x Dire Wolves (135)
20 x Grave Guard (280)
- Great Wight Blades
- Reinforced x 1
20 x Grave Guard (280)
- Great Wight Blades
- Reinforced x 1

Units
5 x Blood Knights (195)

Core Battalions
*Battle Regiment
**Command Entourage - Magnificent

Total: 1970 / 2000
Reinforced Units: 2 / 4
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 131
Drops: 9

I want to keep Neferata in because A) just got her recently for my birthday, and B) she's cool as heck, despite not being the most powerful hero. I figure the wolves are fast enough to gum things up and screen, the GG can both come out of the grave, and the Coven Throne and Neferata are both fast enough to get in range to support the GG easy enough. Honestly feels like the VL could almost sit in back, but within 30" of the enemy casters, just unbinding every round, and it'd still be worth the points because of that +2. Does a lot to make up for the Lore of Vampires being so bad.

[MKxJump]

Interesting that the Vyrkos Vampires are "Vampire Lords" so should benefit from the Legion of Blood bonuses, unless I'm missing something. Does the wording say they need to be "Legion of Blood" Vampire Lords? +2 Attack on Radukar the Beast, and +2 to Casting on Belladamma might be good. Whether that's any better than the normal Vyrkos bonuses though is hard to say.

Edited December 15, 2021 by MKxJump

[KK in HK]

22 minutes ago, MKxJump said:

Interesting that the Vyrkos Vampires are "Vampire Lords" so should benefit from the Legion of Blood bonuses, unless I'm missing something. Does the wording say they need to be "Legion of Blood" Vampire Lords? +2 Attack on Radukar the Beast, and +2 to Casting on Belladamma might be good. Whether that's any better than the normal Vyrkos bonuses though is hard to say.

The wording is Legion of blood vampire lord. 

[MKxJump]

3 minutes ago, KK in HK said:

The wording is Legion of blood vampire lord. 

Ah, makes sense. I'm torn now. Do I try the new stuff or just use Vyrkos? Gives me a lot to think about.

 

Edit thought: I wonder if people will start running Black Knights to fill up battleline slots in Legion of Blood lists. Deathrattle keyword might push them ahead of the similarly priced Zombies and Dire Wolves.

Edited December 15, 2021 by MKxJump

[KK in HK]

58 minutes ago, MKxJump said:

Ah, makes sense. I'm torn now. Do I try the new stuff or just use Vyrkos? Gives me a lot to think about.

 

Edit thought: I wonder if people will start running Black Knights to fill up battleline slots in Legion of Blood lists. Deathrattle keyword might push them ahead of the similarly priced Zombies and Dire Wolves.

I think vyrkos is still better than legion of blood unless you desperately want to shut down opponents spell.

As for black knight, they are still bad. They are worse than every other battleline choices. Skeleton is cheaper to fill battleline slot. Zombie horde has more wound and body and relies on hit 6 mortal wound anyway so the modifier doesn’t matter. Direwolf has double wound with similar speed and cost only 15 points more.

Edited December 15, 2021 by KK in HK