Multiple of one Holy command, Thunderbolt Volley etc.

[macrake]

So this popped on on twitter as part of the US worlds team coach stating stormkeep redeemers are OP, drakes need to cost 380 etc

One of those opinions were that you can take and use multiple Call for Aid, thunderbolt volley etc.

Just seems like a strange take. They all start with "You can use this command ability once per battle..."

Even if you could in theory pick the same one multiple times, you still wouldn't be able to use it more than once per battle. Right?

Edited November 1, 2021 by macrake

[Sagittarii Orientalis]

Hard to judge without seeing full comment, but sounds like no more than hyperbole to me.

[Dogmantra]

Oh dang I'm slapping my forehead over that one.

I noticed a while back that there's nothing specifying that you can't take more than one but was sure it wasn't really supposed to work that way. Yeah, they straight up say you can use it once per battle. Without that clause I'm not sure there's anything stopping you, although some in my local group have taken the term "unique enhancements" to mean you can only take each one once (whereas I understood "unique" in that sense to mean that they were a unique type of enhancement, unlike artefacts/spells/etc which work the same among multiple factions).

So yeah, seems pretty cut and dry that yes you could take multiples of the same one if you really wanted but you would be wasting your enhancements because it's once per battle.

[PJetski]

3 hours ago, macrake said:

So this popped on on twitter as part of the US worlds team coach stating stormkeep redeemers are OP, drakes need to cost 380 etc

One of those opinions were that you can take and use multiple Call for Aid, thunderbolt volley etc.

Just seems like a strange take. They all start with "You can use this command ability once per battle..."

Even if you could in theory pick the same one multiple times, you still wouldn't be able to use it more than once per battle. Right?

They work exactly like Triumphs. You can take the same one multiple times, each one says you can only use them once per game

Edited November 2, 2021 by PJetski

[Squark]

So in conclusion, by RAW, you can take a holy command multiple times. You're wasting your bonus enhancement, however, as you can't use that duplicate.

 

It's worth pointing out that triumphs allow you to take them multiple times because things like Kharadon Overlord aethergold tokens and Swampboss Scumdrek's Kountin Krew allow you to use triumphs additional times in an explicit exception to how triumphs normally work. Holy Commands have no such exception.

[Marcvs]

4 hours ago, Squark said:

So in conclusion, by RAW, you can take a holy command multiple times. You're wasting your bonus enhancement, however, as you can't use that duplicate.

 

So, if you have multiple heroes (duplicates) with the same ability that can be used "once per battle" you can only use that ability once?

[EMMachine]

16 minutes ago, Marcvs said:

So, if you have multiple heroes (duplicates) with the same ability that can be used "once per battle" you can only use that ability once?

I guess it depends how the rule is worded.

"(Choose a unit with this ability). This unit can use xxx once per battle" would be a one use for each unit that can use it while "You can use this command ability once per battle..." is restricted to one use for all units together.

Basicly the difference if the unit can only use it once, or if the army can only use it once.

Edited November 2, 2021 by EMMachine

[Squark]

Unit abilities like you're describing generally refer to the unit. E.g. "Once per battle, in your hero phase, you can pick one friendly Stormdrake Guard unit that is wholly within 12" of this model..." The whole sentence is important, and limits the usage to once/Knight-Draconis.

Holy Commands say, "You may use this command once per battle..." with no such qualifier, just directions as to when the command is to be used.

[PJetski]

Yeah it depends on the unit.

Stormdrake Guard: "Once per battle, in your hero phase, this unit can make a normal move." It is a once per battle effect but it is specific to the unit using the ability.

Knight-Draconis: "Once per battle, in your hero phase, you can pick 1 friendly STORMDRAKE GUARD unit wholly within 12" of this unit that has not made a shooting attack in that phase. That unit can shoot". Once again this ability is specific to the unit using it.

Other abilities in the game state something like "Once per battle, any unit with this ability can blahblahblah"; in that case you can only use the ability once per battle regardless of how many warscrolls have that ability.

[Marcvs]

yes, good point. I was thinking of the Knight Judicator's gaze of sigmar, but the ability also has a sort of "this" qualifier: "Once per battle, in your shooting phase, you can say that *this unit* will draw the gaze of sigmar..."

[OG SCE]

Am not sure, i follow.  None of this occurred to me.

Are we suggesting that if, for example, i take a Warlord Battalion for an extra enhancement, then instead of an artefact i can:

1) choose an second, different Holy Command?

2) choose the same Holy Command again so i can use it multiple times?

2a) if 2 is true, can i use the same Holy Command on the same unit?

yes / no responses would be sufficient for now

 

[PJetski]

10 minutes ago, OG SCE said:

Am not sure, i follow.  None of this occurred to me.

Are we suggesting that if, for example, i take a Warlord Battalion for an extra enhancement, then instead of an artefact i can:

1) choose an second, different Holy Command?

2) choose the same Holy Command again so i can use it multiple times?

2a) if 2 is true, can i use the same Holy Command on the same unit?

yes / no responses would be sufficient for now

 

1) Yes

2) No

You can take the same Holy Command more than once, but each Holy Command says you can only use them once per game.

[AverageBoss]

At a GT I went to, the judge ruled that the holy commands could be used multiple times if bought multiple times. Their argument was that once per battle stipulation applied to each separate instance of the ability...

[Nizrah]

11 minutes ago, AverageBoss said:

At a GT I went to, the judge ruled that the holy commands could be used multiple times if bought multiple times. Their argument was that once per battle stipulation applied to each separate instance of the ability...

LMAO. Good luck playing agaisnt multiple thunderbolt volley XD. Does this judge play SCE? 

[AverageBoss]

10 hours ago, Nizrah said:

LMAO. Good luck playing agaisnt multiple thunderbolt volley XD. Does this judge play SCE? 

That's exactly what I played against in the 1st round. Lost 2 stonehorns before I could make it to melee.

 

TO played FEC as a ringer list during the tourney. No idea if he plays SCE.