Age of Warcry - best of both worlds

[Gitzdee]

I started thinking about this while reading the double turn discussion. Would it be so bad if we ditch the IGOYOUGO thing and do alternate activations like in Warcry. I actually cant come up with a reason why it would be so bad. Alpha strike wont ever be a thing anymore. Gunlines would be less effective because of buffs/debuffs. I actually want to try this and see how it plays out.  But i want to brainstorm how it would be implemented best. I want the books to be fully compatable with this.

Things that roughly stay the same:
Army/list building - I dont see a reason why this would have to change.
Command points/abilities - I think there is no reason here to change to the dice system of Warcry.
Starting player - Just do a roll off, it wont matter much anymore.
Resolve abilities/ attacks like they would in AoS
Battleplan/ setting up table/ scoring/ win condition

Things that will have to change:

Every unit gets 2 activation points. The warcry tokens are perfect for keeping track of things.

Turn sequence
1. Start of battle round
-Both players receive command points
2. Hero phase
- Alternate activations between players
- Doesnt use an activation point
3. Activation phase
- Alternate activations between players
- Use command abilities only on your own activation turn unless its a command ability that can only be played as a reaction like all-out defence.

4. Battleshock phase
-Stays the same

5. End of round
- Both players are out of activations
- Both players agree on passing the next turn

Things u can do using an activation point:
-Move
-Run
-Pass
-Use a spell (opponent can try to dispell like normal)
-Charge, Pile in and Attack -Attack like normal (opponent can attack back for free)
-Attack when in combat or do a shooting attack
-Free Monster Rampage after a succesfull charge with a Monster
-Interact with objectives/terrain/garrisons
-Retreat
(-use artifact? not sure if it should be free)

Would u play this? Did i forget something mayor? Please comment i want to know if this could be something. Thanks!

Edited October 21, 2021 by Iksdee

[EccentricCircle]

I'd play this. Everything else seems to alternate. Igoyougo is really just warhamer being old fashioned at this point.

[Liquidsteel]

Could be interesting for sure. I've never played Warcry, or Kill Team for that matter but it definitely seems like AoS and 40k suffer from certain matchups having 1 or 2 big turns and that's it, e.g. getting doubled turn 2 to 3 by a killy army and doing nothing but take your models off for 2 turns.

 

[Gitzdee]

Almost no downtime for both players can also be a good thing. I think it can result in a more dynamic and interactive experience. 

[Boingrot Bouncer]

When me and my friends played a 4-player "all vs all" we used an alternative to this in that we only had one hero phase where everybody did one thing and then it was the next players turn (so one spell for example). Then we had one movement phase where everyone moved one unit at a time (so first player 1 moved one, then player 2 move one etc.), then one shooting phase, charge phase, melee phase and battleshock phase in a similar fashion.

It was a bit chaotic but a lot of fun. 

[Greyshadow]

I think this is the way the wind is blowing out there in the gaming world. I am a massive dinosaur when it comes to this though. I LOVE my downtime, it’s when I get to drink my beer and eat my pretzels. I know I am a total outlier though!

[Gitzdee]

8 minutes ago, Greyshadow said:

I think this is the way the wind is blowing out there in the gaming world. I am a massive dinosaur when it comes to this though. I LOVE my downtime, it’s when I get to drink my beer and eat my pretzels. I know I am a total outlier though!

I dont want to finish my sixpack first turn though .

[EMMachine]

I have the feeling this would have worked better with the Rules of 1. or 2. Edition in mind.

The thing is, while in 1. and second edition all Command Abilities were activated in the hero phase, now the activations are all over the place.

 

Have you checked "Age of Fantasy" a system of One Page Rules?

The rules are quite slim, the core rules, armylists and some stuff like campaign rules or solo rules are for free (their is additional stuff if you support them on Patrion, and the system is with alternative activation.

[Gitzdee]

5 minutes ago, EMMachine said:

I have the feeling this would have worked better with the Rules of 1. or 2. Edition in mind.

The thing is, while in 1. and second edition all Command Abilities were activated in the hero phase, now the activations are all over the place.

This is how this edition works so i want to stick to that. I dont want to rewrite all the rules. Just the way that they are executed.

7 minutes ago, EMMachine said:

Have you checked "Age of Fantasy" a system of One Page Rules?

The rules are quite slim, the core rules, armylists and some stuff like campaign rules or solo rules are for free (their is additional stuff if you support them on Patrion, and the system is with alternative activation.

I know about one page rules. Its a whole different thing imo.

[Pariah7echo]

2 hours ago, Boingrot Bouncer said:

When me and my friends played a 4-player "all vs all" we used an alternative to this in that we only had one hero phase where everybody did one thing and then it was the next players turn (so one spell for example). Then we had one movement phase where everyone moved one unit at a time (so first player 1 moved one, then player 2 move one etc.), then one shooting phase, charge phase, melee phase and battleshock phase in a similar fashion.

It was a bit chaotic but a lot of fun. 

I think the simpler solution here is to do each phase per player. So player 1 does all their hero phase stuff, then player 2, etc. Then player 1 does all their movement, then player 2, etc. You'd probably want to re-roll priority at the start of each phase but for a multi-player battle I see no downside. Not sure how well it translates to just a 2 player game though. It certainly would be faster than going per unit though. 

[Boingrot Bouncer]

3 minutes ago, Pariah7echo said:

I think the simpler solution here is to do each phase per player. So player 1 does all their hero phase stuff, then player 2, etc. Then player 1 does all their movement, then player 2, etc. You'd probably want to re-roll priority at the start of each phase but for a multi-player battle I see no downside. Not sure how well it translates to just a 2 player game though. It certainly would be faster than going per unit though. 

But then you lose the advantage of Warcry, which is that it is easier to react to your opponent, and that who gets priority is not that big of an advantage.

[Marcvs]

At my club, and purely for fun, we kind of did this in a smaller (1k) game.

Roll for initiative first turn (then it changes each turn, so it's probably better to play an even number of rounds)

Each unit activates individually and goes through all the phases apart from battleshock

The list with less units gets one "pass" token and then another one every two drops of difference (so 2 passes if they have 3 less units and so on)

Once all units have activated, you do battleshock and cleanup phase (all spells and effects end here to avoid the possibility of double dipping, and you score points for objectives)

And that's it.

It was a fun change but I have no clue as to its broader effects and exploitable aspects.

Edited October 21, 2021 by Marcvs

[Tervindar]

I would definitely change the game this way, and then remove overall phases, and just make it per unit activations. OPR Age Of Fantasy really does this well and would love to see AoS go more that route. The games feel less like book keeping/rules and more so about the overall ebb/flow of the game. 

[EccentricCircle]

I'd quite like to do a narrative game set in a jungle where the two sides aren't omniscient. Everyone deploys at onve, and don't watch each others deployment. Then command and move phases happen simultaneously and the armies only become aware of each other 's positions when they get line of sight. Shooting and melee alternate for convenience still. 

[Dogmantra]

To fully switch to alternating activations, I think a larger overhaul than might be obvious is required.

In many other games with alternating activations, activation control becomes incredibly important if sides don't have exactly the same number of units. Early Guild Ball is a fantastic example of this. One player was essentially mandatory for competitive play because they gave you a single extra activation, and being able to go last uncontested is incredibly powerful. In a game like AoS where the sides are not so strictly similar sizes, such a problem could easily be magnified and lead to silly race to the bottom lists where players spam the cheapest chaff they have in an attempt to be able to act uncontested with their strongest units.