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8 hours ago, zilberfrid said:

@Greybeard86 sorry for starting that.

I get what you mean with Soulblight, a subtle reveal that something is wrong entices me more than screaming it in your face. Kritza, Annika and Volga are subtly wrong, and I would have loved Lauka Vai to have a normal shape like Morathi and transform in game, and I plan to give her a dress and transform her (or something quite like her, local shop didn't have her and I can kitbash) in a showdown for my hapless d&d players.

I do like that new zombies and skellies are armed with stuff they could have died with, instead of somehow getting all death branded stuff from seemingly nowhere, like the Grave Guard. Too bad I already purchased both boxes of Oathmark undead (30 each), and it'll be a while until I need more.

I don't agree about the blood knights though, they look like vampirified Dragon Princes (except for a few skulls) which isn't all that strange to me. 

Maybe unpopular opinion: Nagash and the Mortachs look out of place in any death faction other than Ossiarch.

I won't bring it up anymore after this, but don't Apologize for Stating Your negative experiences. 

Also, You don't think Manfred looks good in Soulblight?

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4 hours ago, MitGas said:

Tzeentch should‘ve gotten a proper selection of mortals before Slaanesh. Tzaangors, while cool, are not a worthy equivalent. 

Total Warhammer trailer indicates Kairic Cavalry have been at least designed and I would love to see them in the next battletome. I would love an elite infantry unit that is heavily mutated and extremely vicious in close combat, like a more anthropomorphic and intelligent chaos spawn that traded their magical prowess for martial might. Chaos dragons would be a classic choice that could help fill a command role... although I am really hoping for an Egrimm van Horstmann/Galrauch duel kit. Finally I already mentioned Aekold Helbrass who I think could fit the role of a named infantry hero to rival the likes of Sigvald, Carthalos and Radukar. 

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2 hours ago, xking said:

I won't bring it up anymore after this, but don't Apologize for Stating Your negative experiences. 

Also, You don't think Manfred looks good in Soulblight?

Nope, mount is as much of a mess as the others and the cloak looks silly.

Lady Olynder is the only one that looks in place outside of Ossiarch.

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All characters from the Warhammer Fantasy days should have been dropped entirely, leaving room for new characters to be created. Coming up with endless half-baked reasons why various people survived the death of the Old World and then just mucked about for tens of thousands of years totally undermines any effort to make the lore stand on its own merits.

This is especially true for Ultimate Boomer god characters like Teclis and Nagash, and especially especially true for Sigmar becoming a proxy for the Emperor of Mankind. It's like they somehow utilised negative creativity. Kill them all and start again, and take Gotrek with you.

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13 minutes ago, Kadeton said:

All characters from the Warhammer Fantasy days should have been dropped entirely, leaving room for new characters to be created. Coming up with endless half-baked reasons why various people survived the death of the Old World and then just mucked about for tens of thousands of years totally undermines any effort to make the lore stand on its own merits.

This is especially true for Ultimate Boomer god characters like Teclis and Nagash, and especially especially true for Sigmar becoming a proxy for the Emperor of Mankind. It's like they somehow utilised negative creativity. Kill them all and start again, and take Gotrek with you.

I think its a good mix between „nostalgic this is warhammer-feeling“ with memorable Characters like Nagash (all Death-Characters really), Morathi (who got a whole new role in AoS) or Archaon (who „won“ the End Times technically) but with enough room for new players to enter the game (like Katakros or Kragnos). 

Fielding literal gods also makes games of AoS more epic imo. 

 

BUT

Gotrek should have never returned. It’s ridiculous that you have to account for a ~500p „God of War“ Style Character that can easily wipe your whole army if you don‘t have a way to deal with him. 

Ngl, whenever I see him I dont want to play anymore (or watch the game). 

I LOVE Duardin in general, but why the f is he so powerful?? 

I always thought of him as a comic relief - like the One Punch Man of Warhammer Fantasy - for me he was never really a part of the Setting. 

I really dislike him and wish GW just made him a legends Scroll for narrative games rather than an Order „auto include“ 

As for other unpopular opinions: 

I think Lumineth Realm Lords are one of the best designed AoS armies, just like Ossiarch Bonereapers were for Death when they were released. 

Just like LRL feel like „High Elves but different“ OBR feel like „Tomb Kings but different“ - just like the third mummy movie was about an asian mummy, rather than an egyptian one. 

I think OBR are exactly what Nehekhara would have become in old world if Nagash succeeded a bit more.

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15 hours ago, NinthMusketeer said:

The double turn is an abomination of rule design that ruins games and keeps out potential players.

I'm not sure about the "abomination of rules design", but I do agree with the latter part. While in polls on AoS forums, you see positivity towards the double turn, on more general Wargaming/Warhammer forums you see a lot of people saying "I would play AoS but I just can't get over the double turn". 

It's likely a survivorship bias on AoS sites as those who can get over or enjoy the double turn stick around, whereas those who don't enjoy it may chose to not play the game at all and so leave the community. 

Whether AoS would be a better for removing the double turn, I do think it would be more popular (at least temporarily). 

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14 minutes ago, Phasteon said:

I think its a good mix between „nostalgic this is warhammer-feeling“ with memorable Characters like Nagash (all Death-Characters really), Morathi (who got a whole new role in AoS) or Archaon (who „won“ the End Times technically) but with enough room for new players to enter the game (like Katakros or Kragnos). 

Let's be honest: Arkhan, Manfred and Neferata only made it back into the game because they had a new kit from 8th edition. After everything Manfred pulled during the end times, there is no way Nagash should have resurrected him.

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15 hours ago, NinthMusketeer said:

The double turn is an abomination of rule design that ruins games and keeps out potential players.

I used to be on the side of "nah double turns are fine!"
However since AoS 3 I am pretty sick of them. They've destroyed so many games that would have been fun using the normal turn-order. DTs usually act as a situation-multiplier: It's not going well for you? How about your opponent going twice in a row? Oh you are utterly destroying your opponent? How about you get to go again?

I've played ~20-23 games so far and the double turn ruined 15 of them. It saved 4 of them and the rest went in normal turn order.

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I really like elves and I want way more of them in the game. Yep, let the Aelvetide sweep away the Stormcast.

 

But seriously, if aelves (as in 3-4 different factions) would take the flagship role from stormcast, this would be so much better for the game health.

 

Edited by Zeblasky
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20 hours ago, Ragest said:

Kruleboyz are a mistake

I second this.
I would have bought anything bonesplitterz or ironjaws so fast my shadow couldnt keep up. I'm skipping kruleboyz.
They should have released the troggoths within gloomspite gitz.

Edited by Iksdee
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28 minutes ago, Iksdee said:

I second this.
I would have bought anything bonesplitterz or ironjaws so fast my shadow couldnt keep up. I'm skipping kruleboyz.
They should have released the troggoths within gloomspite gitz.

I thought the talk pre 3.0 was of a whole new faction for Destruction. Was Kruleboyz it? Or are we still waiting?

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50 minutes ago, Zeblasky said:

But seriously, if aelves (as in 3-4 different factions) would take the flagship role from stormcast, this would be so much better for the game health.

 

No. We got enough pure Aelf focus already. Cities of Sigmar (no problem if they mixed all races for it) successor should've been the main faction, just like the Empire was.

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I think that AoS characters can't drive through the story. They need more interactions with other characters, or even background to feel real, and that's why I think they look boring. 

Don't get me wrong, I love Brokk, his design is one of the bests in the whole game but his story is less than half a page. We know only a few of his feats and that's all. We need his story, the story of his weapons, the people that helped him, crew of his flagship, his enemies, his rival, etc... that's how you feel that he is part of your faction and not a bunch of keywords that maybe can combo with one of your units.

Note: I'm talking about any other character in the setting that is not a GOD/semi-God/ Whatever.

Edited by Beliman
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Here's mine: The Venn diagram of people who hate double turns and people who are bad at the game is almost a circle.

However, this doesn't mean that priority rolls are necessarily good, because most people who try to get into the game are understandably not very good, and getting crushed by an opponent's double turn in your first or second game isn't going to encourage you to come back for more. I would be fine with open play games having the option of "no priority rolls", or encouraging new players to play without them, but I think the game is better for having them outside of the new player experience.

Edited by chosen_of_khaine
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1 hour ago, Beliman said:

I think that AoS characters can't drive through the story. They need more interactions with other characters, or even background to feel real, and that's why I think they look boring. 

Don't get me wrong, I love Brokk, his design is one of the bests in the whole game but his story is less than half a page. We know only a few of his feats and that's all. We need his story, the story of his weapons, the people that helped him, crew of his flagship, his enemies, his rival, etc... that's how you feel that he is part of your faction and not a bunch of keywords that maybe can combo with one of your units.

Note: I'm talking about any other character in the setting that is not a GOD/semi-God/ Whatever.

Despite being a big Katakros fan I agree with this. We can be fans of these new characters because of their concepts and designs (katakros being this eternal warlord who learns through defeat and comes back smarter or lady O basically being the logical conclusion of Lucretzia from WHFB Tilea, a scheming politician with a trail of dead husbands and suitors in her wake, now punished in the afterlife with a starscream-esque husband she can't get rid of and stuck with the job of being nagash's soul collector) but we don't have enough of a story to go off of.

Part of this is the fact that the game and these characters are so new, whereas these old fan have been around longer than some of the people playing the game. So they've had time and opportunity to appear and do things in novels and campaign books and have their stories iterated on over several army books. AoS meanwhile is only on it's third edition and while I agree they could have focused more on these new characters, it's also just a bit of a waiting game until they've established all the factions they want to work with going forward with the game.

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2 hours ago, Beliman said:

I think that AoS characters can't drive through the story. They need more interactions with other characters, or even background to feel real, and that's why I think they look boring. 

Don't get me wrong, I love Brokk, his design is one of the bests in the whole game but his story is less than half a page. We know only a few of his feats and that's all. We need his story, the story of his weapons, the people that helped him, crew of his flagship, his enemies, his rival, etc... that's how you feel that he is part of your faction and not a bunch of keywords that maybe can combo with one of your units.

Note: And I'm talking about any other character in the setting that is not a GOD/semi-God/ Whatever.

I know this is slightly different take on the idea as it ties more directly to the divine, but I want more epic mortal figures like Vishvamitra, Arjuna, Tiresias, Odysseus, Sigurd, Sisyphus and Gilgamesh. Human Heroes who are still often figures of divinity that can teach, impress, challenge, outwit, fall victim to, or even ascend alongside the Gods. I also wish the game was more interested in portraying the avatars and descendants of the gods rather than just having Teclis or Nagash physically appear on the board. 

Other than Nagash's cruelty and Sigmar's reforging their seems to be little reason to worship the major non-chaos gods. There also seems to be little in the ways of established worship or notable cults beyond a select few. I think that this game could lead to some fascinating stories about divided worship. For example: I think having a major Tyronic cult in Idoneth culture could create fascinating tensions with the Lumineth, or having certain Fyreslayer cults view Grimnir as a God of Destruction and find themselves marching alongside mercenary Ogors and Gargants to the disgust of their more orderly kin. 

I think this is part of why the stories of Chaos are so interesting to me. As the Chaos Gods are more abstract and yet, there are still champions that are able to rise to even challenge their positions, demons are just a small aspect of the true chaos Gods, Greater Demons can be seen as Avatars of the Gods and there is room for the followers of the Chaos Gods to find forms of reward and punishment leading to significant narrative tensions. Be'Lakor and Archaon feel like genuine threats to the stability of the Gods but simultaneously feel insignificant next to them in terms of actual power. I like that the modern pantheon of AOS Gods feel more like Olympians and the Chaos Gods as primordial abstract beings, I do hope with the inclusion of Kragnos that destruction tribes begin to follow more animistic faiths worshiping different embodied forms of natural catastrophes. But I wish they took more notes from the epics and focused more on the heroic deeds of their mortal followers with the Gods often intervening at only the most dramatic times. I think that is why the Celestant Prime's rules feel fun, having it appear only later in the battle makes it feel like a true Deus Ex Machina. Which ties really neatly into @yukishiro1's amazing idea of having Gods function more like summons. 

Edited by Neverchosen
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Unpopular opinion:

You don't have to constantly improve at hobbying, or at playing the game.  It's a hobby: it's perfectly fine to make art for the sake of the art, not just as a stepping stone to make better art next time.  Or to play a game to have fun, not only to get better at playing the game.

It feels like there is a lot of implied pressure to practice and improve and do better.  That's not the point, or at least it's not the only valid point.  The experience itself can be the point.

(This isn't limited to AoS - culturally we seem to be in a place where the only point of *any* hobby is to get better at doing the hobby, not just to do the hobby.)

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The obsession AOS has with Gods and God-tier characters squeezes out normal characters and leads to the underdeveloped non-God characters that are littered throughout the setting. It's the main way in which AOS is inferior to WHFB IMO. AOS has some great, original faction ideas that could be populated with interesting, original characters...but they're almost all just ideas, left at the level of vague sketches, because the game story is more interested in a soap opera about Gods fighting each other, which personally leaves me cold. 

I mean like take FEC for an example. FEC is a far more interesting and original take on Bretonnia than WHFB's version as an idea...and yet there are no FEC characters worth mentioning, because the AOS designers don't care about that, they care about Nagash getting punched in the face for the fifteenth time. 

Edited by yukishiro1
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18 hours ago, Abstract_duck said:

I'd love to hear why!

 

And, more in general: Enjoying the thread, by the way! 

 

 

I don't agree with OP that Kruleboyz are a mistake, but it seems to be a semi-common idea. To play devils advocate, here's what I have seen said about them;

* Some folk don't like their aesthetic. Warhammer orcs have a distinct shape (boxy head, bulging muscles, bulky weapons) that Kruleboyz don't fit. Kruleboyz look more like something from LotR, where orc-oid races are misshapen, lanky, or mutant. They really are the Hobgoblin equivalent for Orruks.

* Some folk wanted classic greenskins again. Kruleboyz have taken the place of classic Greenskins in the old trinity of Orcs (Normal, Savage, Black Orc), and now it's (Kruleboy, Savage, Ironjawz). Personally I think that's fine, they share a lot of the old GS aesthetics while also being their own distinct AoS thing.

* It complicates Orruk lore a bit, due to not being "standard." Both Ardboyz and Bonesplitterz "recruit" from some unseen tribes of standard orruks that is omnipresent in Orruk lore but unplayable. Now instead of standard Orruks to fix that gap, the Kruleboyz are a mutant subspecies like Moonclan Grots are to normal Grots. (Personally I would fix this by just saying Ardboyz are the standard Orruks now).

* They break the design of Orruk Warclans and other Destruction tomes. GA:Destruction is very segregated between the various races. This is the Orruk Book, this is the Ogor book, etc, with very little overlap. Now they have hobgob mercenaries, grot servants, and troggoths who aren't Orruks. Some like that, some don't. 

I really like Kruleboyz though, they have a cool gnarly aesthetic. I like their twisted swamp monsters and the sculpts are awesome. These aren't my opinions on them, just what I have heard online or in the shop. It seems like they are very hit or miss for the community.

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I think people view old Warhammer through very rose tinted specs, there may not have been gods but there were definitely A-tier characters who filled the same roles, whether through good stories, OP rules or models you saw some characters constantly while dozens of others just got ignored and forgotten.

Essentially nothing has changed, well, except every character gets a mini these days.

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