Unpopular opinion thread

[yukishiro1]

7 hours ago, Dogmantra said:

Out of interest, what's the difference between a mortal wound and damage that ignores saves entirely?

It's minor, but the difference is the latter isn't creating a new mechanical system and therefore the potential for further bloat. E.g. all the abilities, artefacts etc that are specifically keyed to mortal wounds. 

But I would want attacks that ignore armor saves entirely to be extremely rare, it shouldn't be the default even for spells. Poisonous wind orbs are only rend 2, so why wouldn't a spell be the same? A Bastilidon shoots you with a laser that's only rend 1 in this game. Etc etc. 

Ignoring armor saves entirely could be saved for specific types of spells, e.g. Arkan's Curse of Years, which could then be balanced accordingly either with higher casting values or lower average damage.

And stuff like Sentinels on 6s certainly shouldn't be bypassing armor entirely, a rend boost is more than plenty to account for that sort of thing. 

Edited October 21, 2021 by yukishiro1

[Kaleb Daark]

38 minutes ago, Public Universal Duardin said:

WHFB had a fair share of criticisms, but this feels almost like elbowing an elderly gentleman on his 85th birthday.

I understand this is an AoS forum, but this is a very simplistic take on why WHFB died (and I believe if we'd have had Total War: Warhammer, Vermintide and you know, GW actually caring about Fantasy, it wouldn't have). Ironically AoS seems to move towards WHFB with increasing complexity - we're far from needing a single A4 and warscrolls.

 

I'm glad I'm not the only one to see this, especially in 3rd ed AoS..  we see the return of many pseudo wfb mechanics like the ward save, look out sir! etc.  Maybe in the next rules edition you'll see challenges coming back as well!

 

[KrispyXIV]

4 minutes ago, Kaleb Daark said:

I'm glad I'm not the only one to see this, especially in 3rd ed AoS..  we see the return of many pseudo wfb mechanics like the ward save, look out sir! etc.  Maybe in the next rules edition you'll see challenges coming back as well!

 

You mean like Finest Hour and Titanic Duel?

The guts of challenges are already back.  For all we know the "season" after Monsters in Ghur will be Heroes, with a new or enhanced Heroic Action list for non-monster heroes with Battle Tactics focused on Heroes doing Heroic things. 

[pnkdth]

15 minutes ago, KrispyXIV said:

You mean like Finest Hour and Titanic Duel?

Challenges used to be that characters stepped aside and depending on the outcome generated a combat resolution result depending on the outcome ('Overkill' added +1 to combat resolution for each wound that exceeded the total wounds the character had left). In AoS terms this could instead be represented by an aura of negative modifiers to battleshock or other more creative ideas. However, I do not think this would work very well since god-tier characters is already annoying (and numerous) enough as it is.

That said, it would be cool if larger units would get extra bonuses, e.g. +1 to bravery or bonuses carrying a battle standard. Right now so much is focused around damage and resilience and this would go some way in increasing the value of larger units. Definitely something WHFB did a whole lot better than AoS since the outcome doesn't just come down to mathhammer but also army composition.

[Nos]

9 hours ago, yukishiro1 said:

Was WHFB ever very much into the satire and political commentary? That always seemed more like 40k's specialty to me. 40k really came out of the 80s in the UK, whereas WHFB always felt a bit less overtly political and more timeless to me. They've definitely moved away from the political element to 40k, though, presumably when they realized how many of their fans seemed to not be in on the joke. 

Very much so, but it was by way of being in conversation and identifying with a very gentle and modest British left wing cultural revolution- things like Terry Pratchett, Viz, 2000 AD and Alternative comedy- rather than through overt ideological observations or statements as was the case in 40k. 

[Public Universal Duardin]

1 hour ago, Kaleb Daark said:

I'm glad I'm not the only one to see this, especially in 3rd ed AoS..  we see the return of many pseudo wfb mechanics like the ward save, look out sir! etc.  Maybe in the next rules edition you'll see challenges coming back as well!

 

I have been joking with friends that in a couple editions we'll see movement trays back too 😂 WHFB is truly the Lucius the Eternal (maybe 'Tamurkhan', if we want a WHFB joke) of wargames!

[BadDice0809]

54 minutes ago, Public Universal Duardin said:

I have been joking with friends that in a couple editions we'll see movement trays back too 😂 WHFB is truly the Lucius the Eternal (maybe 'Tamurkhan', if we want a WHFB joke) of wargames!

I dont know about you but there is an ad banner for movement trays on my web page right now.... movement trays are already back.

[amysrevenge]

Unpopular opinion:

We (those of us chatting Warhammer on social media) are not statistically representative of the Warhammer consumer base*.  For every one of us, there are dozens (hundreds?) of Warhammer customers who rarely if ever interact with the online/social media community.  We engage with the hobby in a dramatically different way, and have different focuses and different attitudes.

Shaping the game to our specific tastes isn't necessarily the optimal overall choice.

*Anecdotally, I think maybe 3-5 out of my local community (in the 100-200 player/hobbyist range - no fewer, potentially more if they interact with the wider hobby world so little I don't know of them) are active on Warhammer social media, and none of those are on the AoS side other than me.

[Neverchosen]

54 minutes ago, amysrevenge said:

Unpopular opinion:

We (those of us chatting Warhammer on social media) are not statistically representative of the Warhammer consumer base*.  For every one of us, there are dozens (hundreds?) of Warhammer customers who rarely if ever interact with the online/social media community.  We engage with the hobby in a dramatically different way, and have different focuses and different attitudes.

Shaping the game to our specific tastes isn't necessarily the optimal overall choice.

*Anecdotally, I think maybe 3-5 out of my local community (in the 100-200 player/hobbyist range - no fewer, potentially more if they interact with the wider hobby world so little I don't know of them) are active on Warhammer social media, and none of those are on the AoS side other than me.

I think that is why so many of these unpopular opinions seem very popular here. It isn't that people agree with us but that we have developed a shared community with certain ideas and theories that are internally consistent but not reflecting the community at large. 

Is there an audience for Chaos Dwarves, Malerion/Umbraneth Aelves, Silent People, Vampirates, or 'The Little Game of Big Action' Critters and Keys? 

Honestly, I have no clue! But it is fun for us and I hope that GW staff get to visit these forums and see the love for the more oddball ideas that we latch onto here. 

[NinthMusketeer]

Eh, I find older lore to be dry. They had a fantasy setting with tones of narrative tools they barely touched. My perception of the lore quality is that is has been getting better (on the Fantasy side) bar the section of AoS first edition where stuff was just getting pulled from the backside. But even during that the writing for a characters and factions was surprisingly good, far better than so much of old fantasy where stories were 'look how awesome this character/army is getting crushing victories left and right until some event happens and it all falls apart instantly'.

Battletomes add a lot of cultural depth and context to how the faction acts off the battlefield, stuff that was few and far between in tomes. GW has also made excellent use of a slow-advancing narrative to shift tones between editions. By the time of 8th WHFB lore was basically just trying to find a new way to rehash stuff that had never changed.

And of course the whole 'dark gritty' nature of the setting was always an urban legend. All it ever amounted to was 'the good guys are doomed to fail, the bad guys are predestined to win, and nothing can be done about it'. Which to me reads among the most boring, cliche themes a setting can have.

What makes AoS fluff seem worse than WHFB is people only referencing the best elements. That stuff sticks in the memory while mediocre or disappointing lore is forgotten. Once the whole body of lore from each game is compared WHFB fluff is revealed for the immense tangle of dead-ends, inconsistencies, and simply bad writing that it is. But there were also a lot of good parts and those are what the community remembers, not all the bad that came with it.

[Maogrim]

I'vw got another one that not a lot of people seem to share or even be talking about:

I like the 2nd Edition boxes and books in mainly white with a little black trim a lot more than 3rd Edition's dark red. The white had a clean look that helped to accentuate the colorful and imaginative models or artwork that were framed within. And it helped to clearly separate AOS from other systems and games in the shelves, which are also largely framed in darker colors. 

Edited October 22, 2021 by Maogrim

[Shearl]

Here's a couple (hopefully) unpopular opinions:

• The majority of drama online rarely translates into anything real while playing the actual game. Frankly a lot of the points of contention which provoke vigorous debates on this forum and other online platforms rarely come up when actual playing the game in person, and if it weren't for seeing them online you might never think of them. 
• The Silent People will never be released as an army or in any other form, and they don't need to be. They were created to bulk out the plot of Beastgrave and add a degree of mystery to the setting. AoS has numerous far more deserving ideas which could be added to the game instead. 

[Bosskelot]

14 hours ago, Kaleb Daark said:

I'm glad I'm not the only one to see this, especially in 3rd ed AoS..  we see the return of many pseudo wfb mechanics like the ward save, look out sir! etc.  Maybe in the next rules edition you'll see challenges coming back as well!

 

Not just ruleswise but design/aesthetics too. The SBGL refresh is just straight up Vampire Counts; nothing there would look out of place in WHFB. Same with Cursed City. The Lumineth have some out there designs, but are a clear play to get all the High Elf lovers back. Witch Hunters are back now too.

I have it through good 2nd hand info that the SBGL release was one of the most successful ones for AOS in its history. Y'know, the release that basically just stuck to WHFB design principles and didn't try and re-invent the wheel in an effort to be more "unique." I wonder how that will influence the design studio's work going forward.

[greg19190]

7 hours ago, Neverchosen said:

I think that is why so many of these unpopular opinions seem very popular here. It isn't that people agree with us but that we have developed a shared community with certain ideas and theories that are internally consistent but not reflecting the community at large. 

Is there an audience for Chaos Dwarves, Malerion/Umbraneth Aelves, Silent People, Vampirates, or 'The Little Game of Big Action' Critters and Keys? 

Honestly, I have no clue! But it is fun for us and I hope that GW staff get to visit these forums and see the love for the more oddball ideas that we latch onto here. 

New giant rat moddle that stole the forge key and stops fireslayers from using there forge for d6 turns... Unless you kill the unit... (extra vp) 

[EccentricCircle]

Yep, the online community is in no way representative of players as a whole. We are the most obsessed gamers, painters, collectors etc. Thinking that what we think is even a blip on the radar is just asking to be disappointed. 

Unpopular opinion: 

Shadow elves haven't been nearly as imminent as everyone seems to think. Even if they ultimately see release in the next year or so GW would have had time to design them twice over in the time everyone has be sure that they were next. Thousands of pixels have been wasted speculating about them, when for most of that time GW themselves likely didn't even know.

Popular opinion. We should definitely write rules for Critters and Keys.

[Beliman]

4 hours ago, Bosskelot said:

Not just ruleswise but design/aesthetics too. The SBGL refresh is just straight up Vampire Counts; nothing there would look out of place in WHFB. Same with Cursed City. The Lumineth have some out there designs, but are a clear play to get all the High Elf lovers back. Witch Hunters are back now too.

I have it through good 2nd hand info that the SBGL release was one of the most successful ones for AOS in its history. Y'know, the release that basically just stuck to WHFB design principles and didn't try and re-invent the wheel in an effort to be more "unique." I wonder how that will influence the design studio's work going forward.

Are we sure about that?

From my perspective, AoS had always both designs: The more grounded and Fantasy-style and the over-the-top Cosmic/mystic level design.

Yes, we had KO that were a bit "advanced", but we had some  stories/books about random dudes or just Ironjawz that were just Big'Uns with more Waaagh Mojo.

The first big campaign was about SCE and some allies taking down some chaos-forts, flying around the battlefield and all that "magic" stuff, but the second one was about some Cities/bands/ vampirates(?)/... trading and fighting over some territoris to sack them or build a settlement, something that could have been done in Fantasy too. Stormvaults could pass as "Old-One Tombs under some random LustrianTemple that only the first generation Slaans remember". Btw, Warhammer Quest: StormVaults anyone??? I want to sack that vaults with my band of outcasts!).

What I'm trying to say is that appart from Sigmar smashing a mega-giant with Mjolnir Ghaz Mharal or Nagash building an army of Bone-Golems, we always had that rat-catcher or mercenary walking around doing exactly the same thing as before. 

Of course it was never developed at the same level and precision of Fantasy, but it was still there.

Edited October 22, 2021 by Beliman

[RexHavoc]

1 hour ago, Bosskelot said:

Not just ruleswise but design/aesthetics too. The SBGL refresh is just straight up Vampire Counts; nothing there would look out of place in WHFB. Same with Cursed City. The Lumineth have some out there designs, but are a clear play to get all the High Elf lovers back. Witch Hunters are back now too.

I have it through good 2nd hand info that the SBGL release was one of the most successful ones for AOS in its history. Y'know, the release that basically just stuck to WHFB design principles and didn't try and re-invent the wheel in an effort to be more "unique." I wonder how that will influence the design studio's work going forward.

I've said it before here and repetitively elsewhere. If we follow GW logic as true, then we didn't start seeing anything 'new' for AoS until either just before the soul wars stuff or until the year after.

GW have always stood firm that it takes 3 years + to design a range and have it made and released. Its been rumoured for years that 9th Ed was being worked on/ready to replace 8th when they were told to scrap WFB for AoS. Stormcast were being rumoured as being the clockwork soldiers of the empire that were meant to have come out with 9th- Harry the rumourmonger was posting about them long before AoS rumours back on warseers days. We know forgeworld were about to release 'battle for blackfire pass', the follow up to Tamurkhan, which would have featured Dwarves Vs Orcs which is likely too have included things like Airships and other models that matched the 8th Ed dwarf releases. KO were released, a year and a smidge after 1st Ed AoS (so not long enough to have been part of the three year + life cycle of release) I still suspect that the models from that campaign would have been repurposed for KOs. They even fit in perfectly with the 8th Ed dwarf kits in scale and design.

The Idoneth were in WFB lore from years back- even if it was a tiny little text box that only hinted at them.

The idea that most of the stuff done for AoS is 'ridiculous' and 'wouldn't have fit in with WFB' is a ridiculous argument from those that dislike AoS. Releases do not match the timeline GW give at all- which they made a huge deal about with the SoB release for 40k. They would have repurposed everything they could to have gotten AoS its rushed and out the door release.

Sure, they made the AoS lore & style more bombastic, but there is no chance that a lot of what we see now wouldn't have been the direction 9th Ed would have taken. Just look at the range of End Times models to see how they were going with the overall design. 'down to earth gritty Euro Fantasy' would have been replaced either way.
 

24 minutes ago, EccentricCircle said:

Yep, the online community is in no way representative of players as a whole. We are the most obsessed gamers, painters, collectors etc. Thinking that what we think is even a blip on the radar is just asking to be disappointed. 

Yeap, the hobby is so much bigger than just the people that post online.

Even my own small gaming group, I am the only one posting about the hobby online. I've a mate that doesn't even follow GW and only knows about things coming out that he is interested in because I either mention it to him at work or he sees what I post in our friends (unrelated to wargaming) group chat. He's a huge 40k fan but hasn't a clue about warhammer outside of the Horus Heresy books and models. Its so utterly bizarre to me, but there are people that do just treat the hobby as someone might treat a TV shows they only watch sometimes or those that only watch the big team sports events etc.

We are the most likely to be the folk glued to news and rumours, always checking for updates and pouring over old books and model collections and can remember the price of every model off by heart.



 

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

38 minutes ago, EccentricCircle said:

Shadow elves haven't been nearly as imminent as everyone seems to think. Even if they ultimately see release in the next year or so GW would have had time to design them twice over in the time everyone has be sure that they were next. Thousands of pixels have been wasted speculating about them, when for most of that time GW themselves likely didn't even know.

I think this is just due to how GW foreshadows their new factions, which is: Not at all until they are a month away from release. It's impossible to predict actual new army releases, because they are often not in the lore at all until they hit the tabletop.

When people are speculating about new armies, they have to latch on to stuff that was at least mentioned before. You can't exactly predict Idoneth or Bonereapers if the first you ever hear of them is when their battletome comes out.

[Kaleb Daark]

1 hour ago, RexHavoc said:

I've said it before here and repetitively elsewhere. If we follow GW logic as true, then we didn't start seeing anything 'new' for AoS until either just before the soul wars stuff or until the year after.

GW have always stood firm that it takes 3 years + to design a range and have it made and released. Its been rumoured for years that 9th Ed was being worked on/ready to replace 8th when they were told to scrap WFB for AoS. Stormcast were being rumoured as being the clockwork soldiers of the empire that were meant to have come out with 9th- Harry the rumourmonger was posting about them long before AoS rumours back on warseers days. We know forgeworld were about to release 'battle for blackfire pass', the follow up to Tamurkhan, which would have featured Dwarves Vs Orcs which is likely too have included things like Airships and other models that matched the 8th Ed dwarf releases. KO were released, a year and a smidge after 1st Ed AoS (so not long enough to have been part of the three year + life cycle of release) I still suspect that the models from that campaign would have been repurposed for KOs. They even fit in perfectly with the 8th Ed dwarf kits in scale and design.

I'd actually argue the same but from a different angle insofar that all the new model releases in the latter days of 8th / end times were done with an AoS aesthetic, even to the point of base sizes changing if you remember.

When wrathmongers and blight kings came out they got 40mm bases, which were monstrous infantry bases and everyone was crying foul because as regular infantry troop type they were going to get trounced due to model frontage and base size, 3 wounds or not.

I'd say that if 9th was practically finished when 8th was released and ready to drop bar some play testing , then the mother ship decided that financially that the old world had run its course, whatever and pulled out the game that had been developed in parallel.

I'm not saying it was of course, but I can see the mechanic of AoS being a system (independent of genre) developed for something and just waiting for the right moment or product to spring it on.  Perhaps financially they decided that this was the direction sword and board would take, and so they took a whole new track with minimal effort on their part due to the game engine skeleton already being developed robustly enough to just stitch the game world and meat onto it's bones.

And with it a whole new avenue opened up with aesthetic possibilities.?

All conjecture at this point anyway.

[Kaleb Daark]

2 hours ago, greg19190 said:

New giant rat moddle that stole the forge key and stops fireslayers from using there forge for d6 turns... Unless you kill the unit... (extra vp) 

Ahh yes, much like the frenzy rule in old fantasy that meant you had to charge the nearest enemy unit.

Cue much angst as my slab of 30 warriors of chaos chased after a bat or rat swarm for the whole game - because you know, until you kill those three bats and turn them to pulp why are you going to fight the main enemy force?

 

Wow... fantasy really is creeping back into AoS! 😮

[Nos]

2 hours ago, RexHavoc said:

I've said it before here and repetitively elsewhere. If we follow GW logic as true, then we didn't start seeing anything 'new' for AoS until either just before the soul wars stuff or until the year after.

GW have always stood firm that it takes 3 years + to design a range and have it made and released. Its been rumoured for years that 9th Ed was being worked on/ready to replace 8th when they were told to scrap WFB for AoS. Stormcast were being rumoured as being the clockwork soldiers of the empire that were meant to have come out with 9th- Harry the rumourmonger was posting about them long before AoS rumours back on warseers days. We know forgeworld were about to release 'battle for blackfire pass', the follow up to Tamurkhan, which would have featured Dwarves Vs Orcs which is likely too have included things like Airships and other models that matched the 8th Ed dwarf releases. KO were released, a year and a smidge after 1st Ed AoS (so not long enough to have been part of the three year + life cycle of release) I still suspect that the models from that campaign would have been repurposed for KOs. They even fit in perfectly with the 8th Ed dwarf kits in scale and design.

The Idoneth were in WFB lore from years back- even if it was a tiny little text box that only hinted at them.

The idea that most of the stuff done for AoS is 'ridiculous' and 'wouldn't have fit in with WFB' is a ridiculous argument from those that dislike AoS. Releases do not match the timeline GW give at all- which they made a huge deal about with the SoB release for 40k. They would have repurposed everything they could to have gotten AoS its rushed and out the door release.

Sure, they made the AoS lore & style more bombastic, but there is no chance that a lot of what we see now wouldn't have been the direction 9th Ed would have taken. Just look at the range of End Times models to see how they were going with the overall design. 'down to earth gritty Euro Fantasy' would have been replaced either way.
 

Yeap, the hobby is so much bigger than just the people that post online.

Even my own small gaming group, I am the only one posting about the hobby online. I've a mate that doesn't even follow GW and only knows about things coming out that he is interested in because I either mention it to him at work or he sees what I post in our friends (unrelated to wargaming) group chat. He's a huge 40k fan but hasn't a clue about warhammer outside of the Horus Heresy books and models. Its so utterly bizarre to me, but there are people that do just treat the hobby as someone might treat a TV shows they only watch sometimes or those that only watch the big team sports events etc.

We are the most likely to be the folk glued to news and rumours, always checking for updates and pouring over old books and model collections and can remember the price of every model off by heart.



 

Bang on.

AOS at heart is and always has been a way for GW to trademark fantasy concepts  that had evolved within their systems beyond the initial archetypes and fantasy universe that inspired Warhammer in the first place. It made more sense to literally expand the Warhammer Universe to fill with IP than to try and find existing places within the Old World. 

What's interesting about it to me is that its a decision which increasingly feels very much of a place and time- early 2010's- which now feels *very* distant and irrelevant. The past 6 years have been so full  volatile and of their own logic that cultural trends have shifted much faster than tends to be the case within that tineframe. Ironically by far the biggest trend in Sci and fantasy right now is nostalgia. The majority of People currently want what they remember, the sense of a comforting known quantity they can hide in.

GW have definitely being trying to pivot back towards this with AOS- hence the Kruelboyz and most obviously the Old World- but their size makes catching the zeitgeist the equivalent of having to turn an oil tanker.

In many ways I think its commercially a mistake for them to be doing this; they can't replicate or capture retro fantasy by definition of what their Fantasy brand now is. AOS is at its best when it looks to sources that WH didnt- namely non eurocentric sources and inspiration. And looking at the likes of Shang Chi and Dune, you've now got two bold, non eurocentric re-articulations and repudiations of visionary textbook fantasy which will have a strong influence on cultural trends in the near future.

I've a strong feeling that in 5 years time the reason that the Old World looked dated in the early '10's will be to the fore once again, and rather than be positioned to capitalise on that with a confident, developed IP with a real sense of itself, AOS will look confused and compromised between what its cone from and what it refuses to leave behind. 

Edited October 22, 2021 by Nos

[NinthMusketeer]

I believe we will see more and more kits meant to be dual-purpose and be used in TOW. Zombies, skeletons, zombie dogs, blood knights? Those are needed for TOW Vampire Counts. While many AoS armies are unique to AoS, I'll be keeping a close eye on what releases for crossover factions look like.

[GrogTheGrognard]

After seeing the jokes on the rumor thread about the platypus dragons I now unironically want them to be a thing.

[CommissarRotke]

On 10/18/2021 at 7:27 PM, Enoby said:

While this wasn't an unpopular opinion in 2015, I think it may be unpopular now - or at least on this forum.

I don't think that AoS, without a major retuning of its lore and theme, will ever be as popular as 40k or Fantasy outside of the Wargaming sphere. That is to say, the world of AoS will not hold as much appeal as the other Warhammers to the general audience not willing to put in time to look deeper into the setting on their own accord. The reason for this, in my opinion, is because on the outside AoS's lore looks very generic and bland epic fantasy - something you'd find in concept art or on the cover of a metal album. 

AoS is a lot more than that, but it doesn't have the immediate theme of 40k and Fantasy. When you look at 40k, it has character - the world leaks grimdark without needing to read the setting any more than the opening paragraph. When you look at Fantasy, it has a lot of charm in its dirty artwork - the charm is often cruel, but it feels very British in its own way. But AoS, on the surface, still seems like something that wouldn't be out of place in a Magic the Gathering set; it's not bad, but it's so epic it feels bland.

Now, when you look closer at the lore, I think AoS beats out Fantasy handily as a Wargaming setting, being both better for adding in your own characters and armies as well as being a constantly evolving world. I think AoS is much better than current 40k lore, but to be fair I think current 40k lore is absolutely terrible and misses the best parts of 40k's setting. 

I say this as someone who started in AoS with very very little previous exposure to Warhammer. This isn't nostalgia speaking. I find myself much more easily drawn into the background of 40k and Fantasy because they seem to have much more character than AoS does on the surface. Of course reading a 40k book or trying to add my own lore into Fantasy, I'm glad I'm with AoS - but I imagine for the average person who doesn't play Warhammer, the AoS setting doesn't hold much appeal and so there's a much smaller chance of video games or transformative fan content being created for it.

I do hope this changes, but I think AoS would need quite a considerable reinvestment in its theme and lore.  

That said, as others have stated, GW aren't exactly helping themselves by having the majority of major AoS characters just being more epic Fantasy characters. 

What you describe is why the lack of AOS media bothers me so much. It's like GW probably understands some of this issue, but either doesn't know how to get around it (COMMISSION MORE BOOKS MAYHAPS) or actively won't do it ("hey do y'all want a reprint of some WHF books??"). Like we're how many months into AOS 3.0 yet the ONLY books so far are Dominion and... a short story collection... with zero on the horizon. I 100% agree with you that unless GW actually, truly, and fully commits to the Mortal Realms as a setting then AOS will never reach its full potential.

That being said, Soulbound is probably the best way to get non-Warhammer and non-wargamer people into AOS. It's not only an accessible tabletop RPG, it is stuffed with all sorts of fun, silly, and cool lore! Every one of their supplements has brought even more of this lore to life & there really has not been a release that's sounded boring or uninspired yet. It's diversified the Realms in a way that GW probably never would. The amount of heavylifting the Soulbound team at C7 does for GW is utterly MIND BOGGLING when you start reading their handbooks.

[CommissarRotke]

On 10/19/2021 at 5:57 PM, tupavko said:

ARCHAON:

I guess my thing here is that characters are allowed to (and should) change. What happens after you herald the apocalypse, after you grasp the victory you so fervently wanted? Archaon could never stay as he was in WHF exactly because he finally won. 

I heavily disagree that AOS is either childish or naive. The setting literally opens up with refugees being hunted by members of their tribe who were forcibly turned into Khornate cannibals. It hasn't let up since then & 3.0 is even looking to dip a little more into the grimdark.

I also disagree that "morals and ethics were never settled in WHF" not only are they not settled in AOS, but WHF is a straight war of Order vs Destruction (Death and Chaos included), wherein Chaos ultimately wins. There are very clear Good and Bad factions, even if the Good Factions suffer from grimdark syndrome. GW's hallmark of their settings is never settling morals or ethics.

-----

And I guess that leads me to my own unpopular opinion:

Stories/Lore can be both engaging and adult-oriented/dark while having clear-cut Good vs Evil morals.
Unabashedly Good characters can still have flaws and be both deep & interesting.
Noblebright isn't bad and would actually help even out how overdone grimdark gets.
Turning Stormcast into inhuman, unfeeling super soldiers is the laziest way to continue their lore.

not so unpopular:
Corrupting Stormcast is also extremely lazy & too close to 40k.

probably not unpopular?
Stormcast should overtly feel fear. A pillar of their lore should be overcoming and struggling with fear in order to protect the Mortal Realms.