Unpopular opinion thread

[Boingrot Bouncer]

2 hours ago, RamsesIII said:

I liked the previous skeleton warriors better. Don't get me wrong, I think the new ones make for a "better" miniature, but I think their uniform armoured look worked better for Cursed City, which takes place in a very specific location where the skeletons are explicitly raised from the old guard of Ulfenkarn.

The previous skeletons looked slightly more cartoonish, but their armour pieces (especially the helmets) felt like they could come from different cultures to an extent, which worked better for the idea of a necromancer travelling the land and raising more dead from their defeated foes. It works very well for narrative-oriented games with a necromancer who isn't in one place (or simply makes forces out of failed invasions to their domain).

Plus I feel like that variety gives you more to work with when building 2 boxes of 10, compared to the newer box of 20. The old and the new each have their appeal though!

 

 

Another thing that was better was that they had less details = quicker to paint which is nice when you had 40-60 to paint.

[PrimeElectrid]

On 11/30/2021 at 7:14 AM, Bosskelot said:

Stormcast don't have as many different units as Marines, but they definitely feel like they do. I've been trying to figure out why this is the case and it might just be because a lot of them aren't as distinct, there are no vehicles (obviously) and a lot of the names are just nonsense sounding or completely non-descriptive; the characters especially.

Obviously Primaris have that same issue with the names, but at least you sort of know just from hearing the words what a Captain, Chaplain, Apothecary and Techmarine do. What is a Lord-Imperatant? A Knight-Azyros?

Fortunately GW has managed to make most of the SCE units terrible by removing rules, giving them awful rules, or pricing them so high they will never see play (Lord exorcist lol), so you don’t need to bother thinking about them at all.

[PrimeElectrid]

—double post—

Edited December 6, 2021 by PrimeElectrid

[Kasper]

On 11/29/2021 at 7:22 AM, Beliman said:

Unpopular Opinion:

AoS is not a competitive game. It has everything to NOT be competitive. Let's be honest here, a game that's 1vs1 is not enough to be competitive nowadays. It needs a LOT more than what AoS have:

No bans, no league/ divisions (or matchmaking), no company or federation behind the game (that is not the selling company), no regulation past 2 FAQs  a year even if there are broken things since first day, or just a regulation to stop using broken things until they are fixe'd...

I mean, AoS can be competitive if we ignore what a competitive game should look like.

AoS is a competitive game because people do compete.

You dont have a banning phase in football, but its still competitive. The teams certainly arent all equal in strength either - Im no football expert at all, but for how long was "La Liga" dominated by just a couple of teams really? The other teams still try their best. There are also some countries that are hugely favored to win the world cup each time. 

People dont swap football teams as often as people swap armies in AoS though. AoS gets very stale for me if I stick with the same army for months upon months - I often swap every few months and often to new releases (not to chase the meta, I buy before I have a clue if X or Y unit is good) simply to enjoy the breath of fresh air and to play something not many others are currently playing. 

In DOTA/LoL you have MMR systems that ranks your account, but how would that work with AoS? I mean you already do get kinda ranked at each tournament due to swiss pairing anyways.

In those digital games balance patches happen often, but you can freely select a new hero between each game anyways so any nerf/buff is irrelevant since you simply just pick the next best thing, for free. People dont have that kind of access to armies in AoS. Even if two people have the same army, they often dont have the same models so cant just switch things up on the fly from one week to another. One thing is $$$, another thing is time to assemble and paint new models.

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

21 hours ago, RamsesIII said:

I liked the previous skeleton warriors better. Don't get me wrong, I think the new ones make for a "better" miniature, but I think their uniform armoured look worked better for Cursed City, which takes place in a very specific location where the skeletons are explicitly raised from the old guard of Ulfenkarn.

The previous skeletons looked slightly more cartoonish, but their armour pieces (especially the helmets) felt like they could come from different cultures to an extent, which worked better for the idea of a necromancer travelling the land and raising more dead from their defeated foes. It works very well for narrative-oriented games with a necromancer who isn't in one place (or simply makes forces out of failed invasions to their domain).

Plus I feel like that variety gives you more to work with when building 2 boxes of 10, compared to the newer box of 20. The old and the new each have their appeal though!

That's interesting, I come down on the other side of the line with the new skeletons. I think they are more easy to sell as different cultures now compared to before.

The aesthetic of the old skeletons is mostly just "spooky". Bone stuff, bat wings, coffin lid shields... Most of their design elements don't point to a specific historical periode in the real world. But the few elements that do are decidedly medieval european. Viking helmets, straight swords, gothic decorations, that kind of thing. I built a few of those guys as Tomb Kings skeletons. It mostly involved leaving off all the interesting details and having them be "naked" as much as possible.

I think the new skeletons could reasonably pass as a lot of different cultures without clearly being from any specific one. Paint them in the box art style and they look kind of slavic. Paint them in bronze and they might pass as ancient greek or arabian. I appreciate that the details don't suggest a single cultural background as much. Are their helmets russian or arabian? What about their curved sabres? Is that a broad sword or a roman gladius on their hips? Are those round shields with their geometric decorations viking shields or something else entirely? Where exactly are those simple triangular spears from?

I also appreciate the less hunched over pose (the old skeletons used to look at the ground by default) and think that the new skeletons are still quite speed paint friendly. Bone drybrush over everything, contrast paint on the cloth, a dark metallic on the armour: Done. I like them quite a bit, although admittedly not enough to replace the 30 I already have.

[zilberfrid]

21 hours ago, RamsesIII said:

I liked the previous skeleton warriors better. Don't get me wrong, I think the new ones make for a "better" miniature, but I think their uniform armoured look worked better for Cursed City, which takes place in a very specific location where the skeletons are explicitly raised from the old guard of Ulfenkarn.

The previous skeletons looked slightly more cartoonish, but their armour pieces (especially the helmets) felt like they could come from different cultures to an extent, which worked better for the idea of a necromancer travelling the land and raising more dead from their defeated foes. It works very well for narrative-oriented games with a necromancer who isn't in one place (or simply makes forces out of failed invasions to their domain).

Plus I feel like that variety gives you more to work with when building 2 boxes of 10, compared to the newer box of 20. The old and the new each have their appeal though!

I like that the new skellies have stuff that wouldn't be strange to find on a dead body, without someone being so kind as to die in full death themed outfits.

Oathmark skeletons could also be a good thing if you want different skellies. They have bronze age stuff, bronze does not deteriorate as quickly as iron, and grave gifts also fit the time (in some places).

[Jefferson Skarsnik]

Weirdly, the actual fluff in the Cursed City book is that the Ulfenwatch weren't City guard members in life, they're just random massacred citizens who've been clad in their discarded armour. Only Halgrim is still in the same gig as he was pre-death

(If I am remembering it correctly, don't shoot me if I'm wrong, cursed City is a weird distant fever dream at this point)

I definitely liked painting the models. They're kind of sassy looking. From a painting workflow POV I think they might have worked better as nu-grave guard with the ability to still buy lower tier naked skeletons that are easier to paint in huge batches. Then you also wouldn't have had that weird size discrepancy between the imposing, confident chaff skeletons and their petite manlet elite superiors

[Beliman]

45 minutes ago, Kasper said:

AoS is a competitive game because people do compete.

You dont have a banning phase in football, but its still competitive. The teams certainly arent all equal in strength either - Im no football expert at all, but for how long was "La Liga" dominated by just a couple of teams really? The other teams still try their best. There are also some countries that are hugely favored to win the world cup each time. 

People dont swap football teams as often as people swap armies in AoS though. AoS gets very stale for me if I stick with the same army for months upon months - I often swap every few months and often to new releases (not to chase the meta, I buy before I have a clue if X or Y unit is good) simply to enjoy the breath of fresh air and to play something not many others are currently playing. 

In DOTA/LoL you have MMR systems that ranks your account, but how would that work with AoS? I mean you already do get kinda ranked at each tournament due to swiss pairing anyways.

In those digital games balance patches happen often, but you can freely select a new hero between each game anyways so any nerf/buff is irrelevant since you simply just pick the next best thing, for free. People dont have that kind of access to armies in AoS. Even if two people have the same army, they often dont have the same models so cant just switch things up on the fly from one week to another. One thing is $$$, another thing is time to assemble and paint new models.

Hey, no need to give any input here! You will not change my mind, and that's why I posted my opinion in Unpopular Opinion.
If you want to open a new post talking about how or why some people think it's not competitive, just do it.

[Kasper]

11 minutes ago, Beliman said:

Hey, no need to give any input here! You will not change my mind, and that's why I posted my opinion in Unpopular Opinion.
If you want to open a new post talking about how or why some people think it's not competitive, just do it.

I dont believe it says anywhere you arent allowed to comment on any "hot takes" here. 

[Beliman]

3 minutes ago, Kasper said:

I dont believe it says anywhere you arent allowed to comment on any "hot takes" here. 

You already know that if we start arguing about that, a MOD will pop up at some point to say that this is not the right place to discuss that. No need to discuss it here!

[RamsesIII]

3 hours ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

That's interesting, I come down on the other side of the line with the new skeletons. I think they are more easy to sell as different cultures now compared to before.

The aesthetic of the old skeletons is mostly just "spooky". Bone stuff, bat wings, coffin lid shields... Most of their design elements don't point to a specific historical periode in the real world. But the few elements that do are decidedly medieval european. Viking helmets, straight swords, gothic decorations, that kind of thing. I built a few of those guys as Tomb Kings skeletons. It mostly involved leaving off all the interesting details and having them be "naked" as much as possible.

I think the new skeletons could reasonably pass as a lot of different cultures without clearly being from any specific one. Paint them in the box art style and they look kind of slavic. Paint them in bronze and they might pass as ancient greek or arabian. I appreciate that the details don't suggest a single cultural background as much. Are their helmets russian or arabian? What about their curved sabres? Is that a broad sword or a roman gladius on their hips? Are those round shields with their geometric decorations viking shields or something else entirely? Where exactly are those simple triangular spears from?

I also appreciate the less hunched over pose (the old skeletons used to look at the ground by default) and think that the new skeletons are still quite speed paint friendly. Bone drybrush over everything, contrast paint on the cloth, a dark metallic on the armour: Done. I like them quite a bit, although admittedly not enough to replace the 30 I already have.

By them looking like they come from different cultures, I don't mean that their overall design as a group could pass for whatever culture you choose, rather that each individual model feels like it could come from a separate army/culture (in life) from the rest of the skeletons in the box, due to the variety of designs in their armour (and it being more incomplete). This gives them more of an "improvised army made from the many corpses you find in your travels" look rather than "all these skeletons come from the same particular civilization/location in the map".

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

9 minutes ago, RamsesIII said:

By them looking like they come from different cultures, I don't mean that their overall design as a group could pass for whatever culture you choose, rather that each individual model feels like it could come from a separate army/culture (in life) from the rest of the skeletons in the box, due to the variety of designs in their armour (and it being more incomplete). This gives them more of an "improvised army made from the many corpses you find in your travels" look rather than "all these skeletons come from the same particular civilization/location in the map".

Yeah, I can see how the old skeletons work better for that. You really have both scenarios in the AoS fluff: A Necromancer raising a bunch of skeletons from whatever graveyard happens to be near where they are fighting and a standing army of skeletons from an independent skeleton nation. I guess it depends on your idea of what you want you army to be which look you prefer. To be honest, I still think the decision to replace the old skeleton kit was strange, it holds up perfectly well. Which is really not something you can say about the Grave Guard kit.

[Skreech Verminking]

2 hours ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

holds up perfectly well. Which is really not something you can say about the Grave Guard kit.

The grave guard kit actually looks pretty nice.

I especially love the units champions great weapon option

[JackStreicher]

2 hours ago, Skreech Verminking said:

The grave guard kit actually looks pretty nice.

I especially love the units champions great weapon option

The finger-thick mold lines of the models beg to differ 🤣

[Skreech Verminking]

22 minutes ago, JackStreicher said:

The finger-thick mold lines of the models beg to differ 🤣

I must be the exception then.

or playing a factions that has been sitting on 20 year old models (that make up around 61% of the army)  just gives me the illusion, of those models being amazing 😋😜

[Kaleb Daark]

On 11/29/2021 at 6:22 AM, Beliman said:

Unpopular Opinion:

AoS is not a competitive game. It has everything to NOT be competitive. Let's be honest here, a game that's 1vs1 is not enough to be competitive nowadays. It needs a LOT more than what AoS have:

No bans, no league/ divisions (or matchmaking), no company or federation behind the game (that is not the selling company), no regulation past 2 FAQs  a year even if there are broken things since first day, or just a regulation to stop using broken things until they are fixe'd...

I mean, AoS can be competitive if we ignore what a competitive game should look like.

Until it's on the TV with a million pound prize money pot, I think I can live with that and not lose sleep over it.

[Kaleb Daark]

23 hours ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

 

The aesthetic of the old skeletons is mostly just "spooky". Bone stuff, bat wings, coffin lid shields... Most of their design elements don't point to a specific historical periode in the real world. But the few elements that do are decidedly medieval european. Viking helmets, straight swords, gothic decorations, that kind of thing. I built a few of those guys as Tomb Kings skeletons. It mostly involved leaving off all the interesting details and having them be "naked" as much as possible.

 

that's not old skeletons.. and yes, I always thought the halloween costume bone stuff, bat wings and coffin shields was utter dog log.

These is old Skeletons

 

 

and these is old skaven

 

And some very old orcs and the mighty original Skragg the Slaughterer

 

Edited December 7, 2021 by Kaleb Daark

[Jefferson Skarsnik]

Everyone who posts on a wargaming forum should, as a condition of maintaining their account, be regularly required to upload a photo of their current pile of shame to function as their avatar, so that any complaints they make about the number of new plastic miniatures being marketed to them can be assessed in context

 

 

[EccentricCircle]

9 hours ago, Jefferson Skarsnik said:

Everyone who posts on a wargaming forum should, as a condition of maintaining their account, be regularly required to upload a photo of their current pile of shame to function as their avatar, so that any complaints they make about the number of new plastic miniatures being marketed to them can be assessed in context

 

 

I love this idea. I'm not going to do it as I'm not sure I could fit my whole backlog in one photo, but its a great idea nontheless!

[Jefferson Skarsnik]

Good news: I have agreed to administer the programme on TGA in exchange for a) a competitive compensation package and b) lifetime immunity from the programme

[amysrevenge]

A random post in another thread made me think of this actual unpopular opinion (by "unpopular" I mean I suspect many people would disagree).

Slaves to Darkness and Beasts of Chaos should all be dedicated to Chaos Undivided, with no options for single-god Marks.

Any units that you would put in single-god armies belong in that other faction's book.  So Nurgle-Marked Chaos Warriors or Pestigors (for example) would be in the Maggotkin of Nurgle Battletome, not the StD or BoC Battletomes.

All that you would find in the StD and BoC Battletomes would be un-Marked units.

 

UNPOPULAR!

Edited January 24, 2022 by amysrevenge

[Enoby]

1 hour ago, amysrevenge said:

A random post in another thread made me think of this actual unpopular opinion (by "unpopular" I mean I suspect many people would disagree).

Slaves to Darkness and Beasts of Chaos should all be dedicated to Chaos Undivided, with no options for single-god Marks.

Any units that you would put in single-god armies belong in that other faction's book.  So Nurgle-Marked Chaos Warriors or Pestigors (for example) would be in the Maggotkin of Nurgle Battletome, not the StD or BoC Battletomes.

All that you would find in the StD and BoC Battletomes would be un-Marked units.

 

UNPOPULAR!

As someone who plays a lot of God-marked S2D, I wouldn't actually mind this with two major caveats:

- All currently markable units were available in the god books, and all of them could benefit from allegiance abilities. 

- There was a minor faction (like Legion of the First Prince) that allowed mixed armies, but it wasn't the focus of an entire army book. 

I think S2D feel a bit confused as a faction; part of their allegiance ability feels like it wants you to run "Grand Alliance: Chaos Mortals", part of it wants you to run mono-mark thanks to the hero needed for Aura of Chaos, part of it wants cultists to be a key part to the army despite (for a long time until a few months ago) not benefitting from marks, and part of it is focused on narrative rules with Eye of the Gods. It's overall a cool book that feels like it bit off more than it could chew, and many warscrolls that leave a lot to be desired. 

Having a mixed mark army should still be possible for those who've created one and like the idea of all mortals gathering under Archaon's banner, but the core S2D book needs a look at. It's held back by trying to be so many things at once but never really feeling like it achieves its goal of simulating a grand host of unstoppable Chaos Warriors. 

[amysrevenge]

3 minutes ago, Enoby said:

I think S2D feel a bit confused as a faction; part of their allegiance ability feels like it wants you to run "Grand Alliance: Chaos Mortals", part of it wants you to run mono-mark thanks to the hero needed for Aura of Chaos, part of it wants cultists to be a key part to the army despite (for a long time until a few months ago) not benefitting from marks, and part of it is focused on narrative rules with Eye of the Gods. It's overall a cool book that feels like it bit off more than it could chew, and many warscrolls that leave a lot to be desired. 

Having a mixed mark army should still be possible for those who've created one and like the idea of all mortals gathering under Archaon's banner, but the core S2D book needs a look at. It's held back by trying to be so many things at once but never really feeling like it achieves its goal of simulating a grand host of unstoppable Chaos Warriors. 

Yeah, ultimately the core of my frustration is that I would like for Option 1 for the book to not be as a farm team to feed individual units to other factions, but to be a thing for itself.  It's not the Marks themselves (although I definitely prefer Undivided for StD), it's the way it feels like all we are doing is adding to other lists and not being our own list.

[pnkdth]

1 hour ago, amysrevenge said:

A random post in another thread made me think of this actual unpopular opinion (by "unpopular" I mean I suspect many people would disagree).

Slaves to Darkness and Beasts of Chaos should all be dedicated to Chaos Undivided, with no options for single-god Marks.

Any units that you would put in single-god armies belong in that other faction's book.  So Nurgle-Marked Chaos Warriors or Pestigors (for example) would be in the Maggotkin of Nurgle Battletome, not the StD or BoC Battletomes.

All that you would find in the StD and BoC Battletomes would be un-Marked units.

 

UNPOPULAR!

Actually makes a lot of sense. The book is also held back by the sheer awkwardness of the interactions between marks and units.

Give us the rules and we'll be able to decide for ourselves if, let's say, a unit of chaos warriors are shielded by Tzeentch's mystical shield, Khorne's rage making them too angry to die, Nurgle granting them supernatural resilience, or Slaanesh's warriors just vibing with the pain train. All them can be used to justify a 5+ ward and all of it can come down to whichever god favoured them this time around. Path to glory and all of that!

The book should be a smorgasbord of chaos!

[Fairbanks]

On 1/24/2022 at 10:19 AM, amysrevenge said:

A random post in another thread made me think of this actual unpopular opinion (by "unpopular" I mean I suspect many people would disagree).

Slaves to Darkness and Beasts of Chaos should all be dedicated to Chaos Undivided, with no options for single-god Marks.

Any units that you would put in single-god armies belong in that other faction's book.  So Nurgle-Marked Chaos Warriors or Pestigors (for example) would be in the Maggotkin of Nurgle Battletome, not the StD or BoC Battletomes.

All that you would find in the StD and BoC Battletomes would be un-Marked units

UNPOPULAR!

I subscribe to a similar idea for a reason, and so I ask this question:

What is the point of Bloodreavers? (Or Blood Warriors, Kairic Acolytes, Blightkings, or Slaangor Fiendbloods?) Bloodreavers and Khorne-Marked Marauders are the same thing, Thus the stronger of Khorne-marked Marauders or Bloodreavers will always be taken.

My solutions:

Single God Books have access to some models from StD and BoC, but not the unlimited access they do now (example, Archaon would not be allowed in Single God Books).

Slaves would be Chaos United: Consisting only of units from the current Slaves Book, but can take whatever marks they want to buff.

Beasts are also only Beasts units, and would not take buffs in the way of marks (you’d just rewrite their scrolls to be better).  Their rules are: 1 in 4 units could be Khorne or Slaanesh, and 1 in 4 units could be Tzeentch or Nurgle. This would better reflect Beasts’ distaste for the chaos gods.

To the obvious beasts you add: Khorgoraths, Khorngor (Unit with power between Minotaur and Bestigor), Slaangor (Ungor/Gor-Skirmishers), Pestigor (Bestigor, but defensive), Pestigor Mutant (Think Cockatrice/Razorgor sized monster), and Beastlord/Bray-Shaman/Doombull heroes for each God (all of which would be in the Single God Books).