Unpopular opinion thread

[tom0tom]

1 hour ago, Battlefury said:

Unpopular opinion:

A0S 3.0 didn't make the game better, it just gave more tools to be be bad. The list building isn't straight forward anymore and controlling lists for an event is a mess. The rules book is written in a dreadful way, since the  definition of actions and rules is often all over the place. Rules bloat began with the first AoS 3.0 GH and is still a mess.

 

Fully agreed.

[Kaleb Daark]

On 11/10/2021 at 8:30 PM, MitGas said:

Just admit it, you'd think the Skaven way would be best even if they used really long descriptions for the other races 

For them the most difficult  thing is the acceptance that their god isn't a proper chaos god.  They only let him sit at the table to  keep nesh's cushion warm  till he gets back.  I mean come on, even archaon won't recognise him as a proper god, and he'd play rock paper scissors with anyone given half a chance.

[MitGas]

6 minutes ago, Kaleb Daark said:

For them the most difficult  thing is the acceptance that their god isn't a proper chaos god.  They only let him sit at the table to  keep nesh's cushion warm  till he gets back.  I mean come on, even archaon won't recognise him as a proper god, and he'd play rock paper scissors with anyone given half a chance.

Now you're just being hurtful, you monster. 😄

[yukishiro1]

The 3.0 rules around coherency and command abilities result in a competitive game where people take MSU melee and big blocks of shooting units, and that feels and looks dumb on the table. 

When they went to 1" coherency they should have also gone to fighting w/in weapon range or w/in .5" of another model that is itself w/in weapon range. And unleash hell should probably be changed in some way that limits its effectiveness on big blocks - either make it cost 2CP for a reinforced unit to do it, or say you can only ever fire as if the unit was not reinforced (i.e. you only get the amount of shots you would on a min-size unit, no matter how big the unit actually is). I prefer the latter approach, because it deals with most of the feels-bad that comes from the ability when put onto something dumb like 30 sentinels. 

Edited November 17, 2021 by yukishiro1

[Celestantpants]

Stormcast should get the same treatment as other armies when swings of the nerf bat are being considered, such as oh, I don't know, nerfing a unit several times before it even releases with zero data to support it whilst also saying you are waiting for more data before releasing  the balance FAQ.  Funny that.

[JackStreicher]

Unpopular opinion: The fact that Battletomes still contain obviously broken and useless warscrolls, Subfactions and or mechanics is brazen and an affront to their customers.

Edited November 20, 2021 by JackStreicher

[Battlefury]

GW is only releasing miniatures after those limited FOMO runs, when they see the situation fitting of people spending money instandly for those models. Otherwise they won't release anything. ( Even since the release of AoS there are models never being released individually. )
Also, they make the new rules that way, those exclusive models are a must have for the army.

Refers to:

Aborrhant Archregent
Druanti the Arch Revenant
Khorgorath
Blood Stoker
Blood Secrator
Mighty Lord of Khorne

and some more... .
 

[Battlefury]

Warhammer became an exclusive niche hobby. Exclusive meaning, that people, who are not able to pay the ridiculous prices, are being excluded.

"Warhammer is for everyone" refers clearly to the political context, but not to the personal.

[Neverchosen]

The most unpopular opinion of all is also the best opinion of them all:

Smug Dragon is the best dragon!

If I get a dragon I will still probably build it as Karazai, as I intend to use the dragon outside of Warhammer, and I think the more generic unarmored build will work better for tabletop roleplaying games. But I might make this my first magnetized build or I can hopefully ditch at least the Vambraces.

Actually on that note I also really like the Stormdrake and the dracoth riders as well. 

Edited November 22, 2021 by Neverchosen

[Perturbato]

On 11/21/2021 at 11:14 AM, Battlefury said:

Warhammer became an exclusive niche hobby. Exclusive meaning, that people, who are not able to pay the ridiculous prices, are being excluded.

"Warhammer is for everyone" refers clearly to the political context, but not to the personal.

People who should not be buying cigarets because they have other things more important where they sould spend their are still buying cigarets. Life finds a way. 

[Kasper]

People are way too quick at blaming the loss of their game on the opponent playing an OP army, powercreep, double turn, there was nothing to do differently and they played flawlessly etc. instead of realizing the loss was more than likely due to simply bad play.

[Dogmantra]

35 minutes ago, Kasper said:

People are way too quick at blaming the loss of their game on the opponent playing an OP army, powercreep, double turn, there was nothing to do differently and they played flawlessly etc. instead of realizing the loss was more than likely due to simply bad play.

In addition to this, from a competitive mindset, there's nothing you can do about your opponent having a strong army or flawless play. In order to ever improve and have a chance of winning next time, you gotta focus on what you can do differently. And yeah, maybe you were playing a skewed matchup and it would be an uphill fight, but there's always something you can do better.

[Skreech Verminking]

33 minutes ago, Dogmantra said:

In addition to this, from a competitive mindset, there's nothing you can do about your opponent having a strong army or flawless play. In order to ever improve and have a chance of winning next time, you gotta focus on what you can do differently. And yeah, maybe you were playing a skewed matchup and it would be an uphill fight, but there's always something you can do better.

Yes, for example you could play a doomwheel (or up to 4)

nothing beats the most random unit in the whole game 

Edited November 24, 2021 by Skreech Verminking

[Abstract_duck]

11 minutes ago, Skreech Verminking said:

Yes, for example you could play a doomwheel (or up to 4)

nothing beats the most random unit in the whole game 

Let's address the elephant in the room - Doomwheels should be battleline

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

1 minute ago, Abstract_duck said:

Let's address the elephant in the room - Doomwheels should be battleline

That's not an unpopular opinion, is it? Who could honestly object to that.

[Skreech Verminking]

12 minutes ago, Abstract_duck said:

Let's address the elephant in the room - Doomwheels should be battleline

I have heard a lot of great suggestions about Doomwheels in the last few days.

And the 3 that struck me with the most interesting solution were:

1. Making Doomwheels battle-line

2. Making doomwheels battle-line and cheaper (100points per model)

3.have the cost of Doomwheels, reduced to 0, 

10 minutes ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

That's not an unpopular opinion, is it? Who could honestly object to that.

Nor do I.

clearly Gw shouldn’t be writing rules for the skaven.

in the end it should be the skaven players.

Nothing beats more more more randomness.

Edited November 24, 2021 by Skreech Verminking

[Enoby]

1 hour ago, Kasper said:

People are way too quick at blaming the loss of their game on the opponent playing an OP army, powercreep, double turn, there was nothing to do differently and they played flawlessly etc. instead of realizing the loss was more than likely due to simply bad play.

While it there are certainly unfair units to use against unprepared or new opponents, I have noticed that a lot more people seem to ask "please don't use that again" rather than "how best can I beat that?"

I think it's very easy to focus on an opponent's strengths but not realise their weaknesses. I've been playing Path to Glory with Warcry cultists in Ravagers; the summoning (of more cultists, not maraurders) seems to throw a lot of people off, enough that they don't play into the army's weaknesses (that it can't take or land a hit) and I've been asked to just not summon at all. 

I don't mind accommodating people, and I have limited my summoning, but I do think it's a shame that people will ask the opponent to play worse rather than trying to get better. 

Again, sometimes a list is a bit much, but as you said it's very easy to blame outwards rather than looking inwards.

[PrimeElectrid]

Fulminators and raptors are too weak at their current point cost.

Raptors should be 150 like sentinels.

Fulminators 50 points per model like pigs (100 for the unit of 2)

[Skreech Verminking]

1 hour ago, PrimeElectrid said:

Fulminators and raptors are too weak at their current point cost.

Raptors should be 150 like sentinels.

Fulminators 50 points per model like pigs (100 for the unit of 2)

I’m not sure.

shouldn’t sentinels cost like 200points per 10?

[OG SCE]

6 hours ago, Skreech Verminking said:

1. Making Doomwheels battle-line...

2. Making doomwheels battle-line and cheaper (100points per model)

3.have the cost of Doomwheels, reduced to 0, 

Doomwheels are undoubtly cool, but we can't just make them battleline willy-nilly.  The should become "Battleline If general is an Uber-Doomwheel Engineer."   Im imagining a new center-piece big enough to roll over Mega Gargant.   It'll be the Chaos equivalent of an all squig army.

Edited November 24, 2021 by OG SCE
typo

[Skreech Verminking]

5 minutes ago, OG SCE said:

Doomwheels are undoubtly cool, but we can't just make them battleline willy-nilly.  The should become "Battleline If general is an Uber-Doomwheel Engineer."   Im imagining a new center-piece big enough to role over Mega Gargant.   It'll be the Chaos equivalent of an all squig army.

Done!!

best idea ever

Edited November 24, 2021 by Skreech Verminking

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

5 hours ago, Enoby said:

While it there are certainly unfair units to use against unprepared or new opponents, I have noticed that a lot more people seem to ask "please don't use that again" rather than "how best can I beat that?"

I think it's very easy to focus on an opponent's strengths but not realise their weaknesses. I've been playing Path to Glory with Warcry cultists in Ravagers; the summoning (of more cultists, not maraurders) seems to throw a lot of people off, enough that they don't play into the army's weaknesses (that it can't take or land a hit) and I've been asked to just not summon at all. 

I don't mind accommodating people, and I have limited my summoning, but I do think it's a shame that people will ask the opponent to play worse rather than trying to get better. 

Again, sometimes a list is a bit much, but as you said it's very easy to blame outwards rather than looking inwards.

This is a dilemma that I also struggle with sometimes. Personally, I am all for de-tuning your list to match the lower power level of a more casual group. There is fun to be had in that: You get to play fully to your theme and bring all your favourite conversions you made of models that are usually not good enough. Or you get to try out those models that can be powerful and fun, but are not reliable enough to use in competitive games.

But I find it very hard to play badly on purpose. Like, to not use resources I know I have or to not take opportunities that I think I should. When I bring a list, I really want to play it to the best of my ability. Otherwise, I kind of feel like "What's even the point? Why am I even playing?".

[Enoby]

1 hour ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

This is a dilemma that I also struggle with sometimes. Personally, I am all for de-tuning your list to match the lower power level of a more casual group. There is fun to be had in that: You get to play fully to your theme and bring all your favourite conversions you made of models that are usually not good enough. Or you get to try out those models that can be powerful and fun, but are not reliable enough to use in competitive games.

But I find it very hard to play badly on purpose. Like, to not use resources I know I have or to not take opportunities that I think I should. When I bring a list, I really want to play it to the best of my ability. Otherwise, I kind of feel like "What's even the point? Why am I even playing?".

This is the exact issue I've had (and am still having). I don't mind taking never before used units, but I do mind being asked to use said units in a bad way.

My list was something like (at 750pts)

- Chaos Lord

- Chaos Sorcerer lord 

- Darkoath Chieftain 

- Darkoath Warqueen

- Untamed Beasts 

- Untamed Beasts

- Spire Tyrants

- Chaos Spawn 

- Chaos Spawn

(Path to Glory so 2 extra heroes allowed from territory)

It is, narratively, the dregs of warriors and cultists (hence no armoured S2D units) gathering under the banner of a Chaos Lord and Sorcerer. 

So not exactly the most intimidating list in the world, and when it's going against Blood Knights and Goregruntas on the regular, it feels bad to be asked to not summon or to play more 'casually' (which, when asking for elaboration, seemed to be playing objectives less, less screening and less retreating). 

It's a tricky one, because I do see their point - it is very frustrating to feel as if a game never goes your way and summoning does seem blatantly unfair in a 'common sense' way (as in, "wait, so you get points for free? I had to pay for my units!"). But I think blaming an opponents list rather than trying to look for weaknesses doesn't help someone improve as a player (should they want to), and can diminish the fun of the opponent.

In addition, intentionally playing badly can feel quite patronising and really takes the wind out of your sails if you find out you only won because someone let you.

[Andrew G]

1) No shooting unit should have more than 12" range unless it's artillery. Adjust points down to compensate. 

2) True line of sight is stupid and they should implement a fixed height system for all units/terrain based on type, and better LOS determination rules so you can't claim LOS because you see under a models feet or their hand is raised. 

[whispersofblood]

@Enoby Isn't this the exact same arguments members on this very forum make when we talk about "consensus" OP units though? Imo the internet environment has been terrible for the one thing having a mass of people should generate. The sharing of experience to improve people's outcomes. Instead we coddle people with copious amounts of copium and tell them its their opponent's fault for bring the unit, or GW's for writing a bad scroll or ability. While simultaneously getting on people who point out counter play calling them white knights or shills.

Your experience seems the natural consequence of letting people play these games in their feelings for so long.