Unpopular opinion thread

[Kadeton]

More unpopular opinions:

Development of The Old World is a waste of time and resources. Age of Sigmar is far better suited to the kind of rules that GW produces - sloppy and incoherent, but packed with individual flavour and focused on producing an unpredictable, cinematic experience. Rank-and-file fantasy warfare is already much better served by Kings of War than anything GW will ever produce.

The AoS game designers actually do a great job, given the pressures and constraints placed on them by the needs of the marketing machine. Yes, that frequently includes egregious errors and oversights, a lack of internal consistency, poor internal and external balance, terrible proofing and editing, and many questionable design decisions. It's still remarkable that, given the way GW operates, things aren't much worse. All of those problems could be easily solved by adequate resourcing, and it's not the designers' fault that GW refuses to do so.

[Gitzdee]

I cant help but feel like The Old World will be epic scale or something similar. It just seems too good to be true. I want a Kislev army for AoS so bad but dont want to get my hopes up.

[acr0ssth3p0nd]

The "themes" of GA Destruction should be about the untameable, the things of the world that are far, far older than civilization and cannot be controlled by the shackles of industry and consumption - and then Sylvaneth should embrace the "protectors and restorers of the wild" and be moved to GA Destruction. This adds thematic resonance and variety to Destruction, as well as gods besides Gorkamorka.

Beasts of Chaos would then represent Chaos corrupting and making a mockery of these themes. The insidious nature of Chaos would focus on corruption and despoiling things that already exist. For example, a predator doesn't seek to slaughter for its own sake, but simply to stop prey from moving and fighting to be devoured (Ogurs!), and even the most belligerent species will not fight to the death if it can help it (Orruks love a good fight, but they don't like dying - why else would they flee when a fight goes against them?). But Beasts of Chaos, on the other hand, would seek to slaughter and kill and spill blood for its own sake. That's not what actual beasts do, predator or not. Sure, a cat might toy with its prey, but it won't seek out battles or brutal protracted fights. But Beasts of Chaos aren't natural beasts, but a twisted mockery and hijacking of bestial forms to spread terror and discord to expand the influence of Chaos itself.

While we're on that note, Daughters of Khaine should be GA Death. They literally worship a God of Murder. They expand the influence and power of Death as a concept, regardless of whether or not Nagash benefits. Nagash is an incredibly powerful being with the greatest understanding of and ability to control and wield the forces of Death in the Realms, but he does not own or control Death itself any more than Sigmar does for Order. Grungi, Sigmar, Teclis - all these figures work within the broad sphere of Order, so why should Nagash not have to share his space with a god (or goddess - shhhh, don't tell anyone!) of Murder?

If we then take GA Order as a force for settlement, civilization, and literal order, then the only Order faction left that doesn't fully fit that theme is the Deepkin, and there's arguments to be made for it to be in Death, Destruction, or even to stay in Order.

Basically, let's shake up the Grand Alliances by choosing concrete themes and sticking to them.

Edited October 25, 2021 by acr0ssth3p0nd

[RexHavoc]

1 hour ago, Iksdee said:

I cant help but feel like The Old World will be epic scale or something similar. It just seems too good to be true. I want a Kislev army for AoS so bad but dont want to get my hopes up.

They've already confirmed that it won't be Epic scale or anything other than the standard. They don't really use a consistent scale so they can't really come out and say that it is 28 or 32mm but they've confirmed that it will around the scale we have now.

[Gitzdee]

10 minutes ago, RexHavoc said:

They've already confirmed that it won't be Epic scale or anything other than the standard. They don't really use a consistent scale so they can't really come out and say that it is 28 or 32mm but they've confirmed that it will around the scale we have now.

Thanks! This made my day.

[Kadeton]

1 hour ago, acr0ssth3p0nd said:

While we're on that note, Daughters of Khaine should be GA Death. They literally worship a God of Murder.

I'd never considered this as an option. It never sit well with me that the Daughters were an Order faction, but I couldn't figure out where I wanted them to be instead. Turns out, it's Death! I love this idea.

1 hour ago, acr0ssth3p0nd said:

If we then take GA Order as a force for settlement, civilization, and literal order, then the only Order faction left that doesn't fully fit that theme is the Deepkin, and there's arguments to be made for it to be in Death, Destruction, or even to stay in Order.

Idoneth have the exact same motivation to war as Ogors, except that they need souls instead of food. Change my mind.

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

5 minutes ago, Kadeton said:

Idoneth have the exact same motivation to war as Ogors, except that they need souls instead of food. Change my mind.

Ogres are just fat vampires.

[AdamR]

24 minutes ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

Ogres are just fat vampires.

Vampires that are fat or vampires that drink fat?

Or both🤣

[EMMachine]

3 hours ago, acr0ssth3p0nd said:

While we're on that note, Daughters of Khaine should be GA Death. They literally worship a God of Murder. They expand the influence and power of Death as a concept, regardless of whether or not Nagash benefits. Nagash is an incredibly powerful being with the greatest understanding of and ability to control and wield the forces of Death in the Realms, but he does not own or control Death itself any more than Sigmar does for Order. Grungi, Sigmar, Teclis - all these figures work within the broad sphere of Order, so why should Nagash not have to share his space with a god (or goddess - shhhh, don't tell anyone!) of Murder?

Well, GA Death normally means that the army itself ist undead. Death has living followers but they are praying to Nagash.

With the theme of Blood Sacrifices, why not Chaos. I mean, their was a connection between Khorne and Khaine in 40k and WHFB.

13 hours ago, Ggom said:

As someone who has been involved in heresy since 2018, I think the idea that Heresy players are difficult to play with is ridiculous. Heresy gaming tends to lean towards an older crowd with more disposable income, and i think there may be a different set of values predominant - narrative style gaming, emphasis on painting, conversions and story - but I’ve always found it a friendly community. There are some salty youtube personalities out there *cough-outercircle-cough* but that’s true of most gaming groups.

Yeah, the Horus Heresy Community is more focused around building armies that fit the Legions Lore instead of the Comperative aspect of taking the best stuff. They are more "Historicans". And Outer Cirle isn't that bad. He critizises mostly the prices (which is understandable if you look at Australian prices) the fact that so much stuff is removed or that the scale of models isn't fitting anymore for the new models. Their are way more problematic Youtubers.

On 10/22/2021 at 8:45 PM, CommissarRotke said:

What you describe is why the lack of AOS media bothers me so much. It's like GW probably understands some of this issue, but either doesn't know how to get around it (COMMISSION MORE BOOKS MAYHAPS) or actively won't do it ("hey do y'all want a reprint of some WHF books??"). Like we're how many months into AOS 3.0 yet the ONLY books so far are Dominion and... a short story collection... with zero on the horizon. I 100% agree with you that unless GW actually, truly, and fully commits to the Mortal Realms as a setting then AOS will never reach its full potential.

Yeah, this is quite strange. Their are also no Black Library Online Only releases. The next release is basicly a Warhammer Horror Anthology.

But I think another problem with the lore is, that it is very hard to get the stories into the chronological order because most of the time the mentioning of other events is the only thing we often get, and in some cases the stories or events are so stand alone that it is impossible to find the right place in the lore. I would see myself as a "Loremaster" and really like the possibibilities of the lore, but I have the feeling the shown maps are a little to big for the stuff we know about the regions inside and it would make sense if the shown part was a little smaller but with more focus on that shown regions. I have no problem with the size of the realms because their are so many posiblities that the community could basicly fill unknown parts of the Realms with their own lore without creating conflicts with the official lore.

Their is stuff like the "Realm-Lords" Novel that I'm still reading, where we don't get the name of the Destroyed Alarith Temple, we don't really know where in Ymetrica we are, did the Guardian even have a name?

Many Authors miss the connections between stories that we had with Josh Reynolds. Or sometimes stories contradict each other with the worst example being the Gotrek Stories where we have at least four Authors  which partly don't know what stories the other authors told.

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

Here are some opinions for you:

Vampires Lords are at a completely acceptable power level right now. They are tough, hit decently hard, can heal, are wizards and can fly. That's objectively pretty good. If you feel they are too weak, that's just a hang up from playing them in Warhammer Fantasy where they were some of the most dangerous things around. But vampires being some kind of mega-powerful entity compared to everything else is not part of the fiction of AoS, and it should not be. The Mortal Realms are just so large and varied that a Dracula does not make sense as one of the most powerful beings. Vampires should be at a power level where a single one is strong enough to threaten a village, not the world. But we do have world-level threats in AoS.

Spoiler

I still want those Anvil of Blood abilities to be part of matched play, though. Let me turn my guy into a giant bat, that sounds sweet.

Bonus opinion:

Dragons are kinda dumb. I will not elaborate.

[Skreech Verminking]

7 hours ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

Ogres are just fat vampires.

 

6 hours ago, AdamR said:

Vampires that are fat or vampires that drink fat?

Or both🤣

Nah they are better then vampires.

Unlike the vampiric bei gs, ogors gulp down the given food whole, unlike the vampires who literally tease it, before devouring just some blood and leaving the lifeless husk of their victim on the street.

Clearly ogors win this match just for having some manners

Edited October 25, 2021 by Skreech Verminking

[EccentricCircle]

Not sure how unpopular this one will be, but Hype is a bad thing.

We're all sat here, waiting for the adverts to be released, so that we can overanalyse them and obsess over wanting the things.

I'm sure this isn't how its supposed to work, but I have no idea how to disengage. They've some how made the speculation fun, and so you want to play "the rumour game", but in doing so you expose yourself to all of their FOMO based pressure marketing.

 

[acr0ssth3p0nd]

12 minutes ago, EccentricCircle said:

Not sure how unpopular this one will be, but Hype is a bad thing.

We're all sat here, waiting for the adverts to be released, so that we can overanalyse them and obsess over wanting the things.

I'm sure this isn't how its supposed to work, but I have no idea how to disengage. They've some how made the speculation fun, and so you want to play "the rumour game", but in doing so you expose yourself to all of their FOMO based pressure marketing.

 

I dunno if it helps, but I've found that I got less susceptible to hype and FOMO by broadening my minis/wargaming hobby to multiple games and lines, especially once I found folks willing to custom-print models for me. I started to define myself more by the specific sorts of models and games I enjoyed purely because I liked them; if Age of Sigmar didn't have a model or gameplay something I wanted, I was sure I could find it somewhere else. My hobby stopped being Warhammer, and started being "painting minis and playing wargames," of whic AoS was a part. When you're not concerned about whether or not you're going to get something (be that a certain style of model, or rules that fit the kind of army you want to play) because you know that it already exists somewhere even if it's not Warhammer, then the Warhammer reveals stop being about "will I finally get something I've always wanted" and more about "oo, what's new in this area of my hobby?"

There's less to be super-hyped about, because there's less to be disappointed about. It's fun, but not anxiety-inducing. Sylvaneth rules suck, I can't effectively use my Wild Riders with them, and there's no Kurnothi? Well, not in Age of Sigmar, but I can absolutely run that sort of thing in OnePageRules, which is also more accessible, too! I'm not hanging onto every reveal for Kurnothi models or revised Sylvaneth rules, I just enjoy it when they come up for Warhammer specifically.

[EccentricCircle]

29 minutes ago, acr0ssth3p0nd said:

I dunno if it helps, but I've found that I got less susceptible to hype and FOMO by broadening my minis/wargaming hobby to multiple games and lines, especially once I found folks willing to custom-print models for me. I started to define myself more by the specific sorts of models and games I enjoyed purely because I liked them; if Age of Sigmar didn't have a model or gameplay something I wanted, I was sure I could find it somewhere else. My hobby stopped being Warhammer, and started being "painting minis and playing wargames," of whic AoS was a part. When you're not concerned about whether or not you're going to get something (be that a certain style of model, or rules that fit the kind of army you want to play) because you know that it already exists somewhere even if it's not Warhammer, then the Warhammer reveals stop being about "will I finally get something I've always wanted" and more about "oo, what's new in this area of my hobby?"

There's less to be super-hyped about, because there's less to be disappointed about. It's fun, but not anxiety-inducing. Sylvaneth rules suck, I can't effectively use my Wild Riders with them, and there's no Kurnothi? Well, not in Age of Sigmar, but I can absolutely run that sort of thing in OnePageRules, which is also more accessible, too! I'm not hanging onto every reveal for Kurnothi models or revised Sylvaneth rules, I just enjoy it when they come up for Warhammer specifically.

Yes, I agree with this wholeheartedly. I'm honestly more of an RPG player, and barely ever use my models for their intended mass battle games. Still seem to be glued to the rumour thread though, which is why I'm not quite sure how they got me...

[Lord Krungharr]

4 hours ago, Skreech Verminking said:

 

Nah they are better then vampires.

Unlike the vampiric bei gs, ogors gulp down the given food whole, unlike the vampires who literally tease it, before devouring just some blood and leaving the lifeless husk of their victim on the street.

Clearly ogors win this match just for having some manners

I agree, Ogors are superior, because they can eat rocks if needed.  And they don't need shirts with puffy sleeves!  Except for the Maneaters, they're used to a higher standard of living.

[Popisdead]

The game is generally always in a better state than before.  

[RexHavoc]

2 hours ago, EccentricCircle said:

Not sure how unpopular this one will be, but Hype is a bad thing.

We're all sat here, waiting for the adverts to be released, so that we can overanalyse them and obsess over wanting the things.

I'm sure this isn't how its supposed to work, but I have no idea how to disengage. They've some how made the speculation fun, and so you want to play "the rumour game", but in doing so you expose yourself to all of their FOMO based pressure marketing.

 

I've been removing as much 'official' content from my social media and alert feeds that I can. Got sick to death of FOMO advertising. Not only that but people repost GW 'news' the second its out anyway. Getting rid of so many 'Hype' posts has really improved my hobby and my stress levels.

I much preferred it when I could go online when I wanted at any day of the week, browse through GWs store and buy anything that caught my eye- new or old. I spent a lot more money then. All this FOMO stuff 'QUICK BUY IT NOW THIS SATURDAY ONLY' makes me save my money in case something better is coming a week or two later. One of many reasons I didn't bother buying into 3rd Ed. And I know I'm not the only one.

GW were so busy trying to get everyone to spend their money recklessly on every new release, they have pushed people away from spending anything at all. 

I've spent a hell of a lot of money on other games and products simply because I had money burning a hole in my pocket that week and the batch of releases were so hyped up and I had no interest in sitting in a virtual queue* for an hour to buy some product that would be forgotten about the week after.

*sidenote, the virtual queue was stupid. I figured out how to exploit it the first day it was up as did many others. I did inform GW and refused to use the system but I know that people that did exploit it to buy multiple copies of various item. The queue system did nothing but punish regular users, it didn't stop scalpers at all.

[Orbei]

5 minutes ago, Popisdead said:

The game is generally always in a better state than before.  

Until dragons start showing up in December.

[amysrevenge]

Not sure about the popular-ness of this one, but the recent tone of the discussion has led my thoughts here.

The FOMO style of release lately has made me less interested, in general, in being at the bleeding edge of the game.

I'm in a place in my life where I can't jump on something in the first couple of weeks.  So, I've missed it and now it's gone and it's the next thing. That I also miss.  So at some point I've missed like 4 things in a row, and there's no going back. 

It's harder than ever these days to be part-way engaged - you either need to be all-in all the time, or casual in the garage.

[acr0ssth3p0nd]

17 minutes ago, amysrevenge said:

Not sure about the popular-ness of this one, but the recent tone of the discussion has led my thoughts here.

The FOMO style of release lately has made me less interested, in general, in being at the bleeding edge of the game.

I'm in a place in my life where I can't jump on something in the first couple of weeks.  So, I've missed it and now it's gone and it's the next thing. That I also miss.  So at some point I've missed like 4 things in a row, and there's no going back. 

It's harder than ever these days to be part-way engaged - you either need to be all-in all the time, or casual in the garage.

This is what pushed me away from Destiny, a game series I really loved. The "seasonal" method on content delivery combined with Bungie's sunsetting of older material means that I feel like I'm on a time crunch to collect everything before it goes forever, and I just don't have time in my life for that.

[Orbei]

2 hours ago, amysrevenge said:

Not sure about the popular-ness of this one, but the recent tone of the discussion has led my thoughts here.

The FOMO style of release lately has made me less interested, in general, in being at the bleeding edge of the game.

I'm in a place in my life where I can't jump on something in the first couple of weeks.  So, I've missed it and now it's gone and it's the next thing. That I also miss.  So at some point I've missed like 4 things in a row, and there's no going back. 

It's harder than ever these days to be part-way engaged - you either need to be all-in all the time, or casual in the garage.

Consider that D&D was created in the 70s and is only on 5th edition. 5th edition itself was released in 2014 and is still ongoing. Meanwhile, 40k is in it's 9th edition and AoS, which was only created in 2015, is in it's third edition. 

The game changes way too fast. New models and rules for them is great! But a battletome should last a decade and be supported during that time with tweeks if necessary to keep it up to date. Core rulesets should have longer than a 4 year lifespan. Between the short lifespan of editions and terrible power creep with new releases the landscape of the game changes rapidly. Probably great fun for tournament players but less so for people who get in a handful of games a year.

Edited October 26, 2021 by Orbei

[acr0ssth3p0nd]

26 minutes ago, Orbei said:

Consider that D&D was created in the 70s and is only on 5th edition. 5th edition itself was released in 2014 and is still ongoing. Meanwhile, 40k is in it's 9th edition and AoS, which was only created in 2015, is in it's third edition. 

The game changes way too fast. New models and rules for them is great! But a battletome should last a decade and be supported during that time with tweeks if necessary to keep it up to date. Core rulesets should have longer than a 4 year lifespan. Between the short lifespan of editions and terrible power creep with new releases the landscape of the game changes rapidly. Probably great fun for tournament players but less so for people who get in a handful of games a year.

Funny you should mention D&D, since that's exactly another example of me disconnecting myself from a particular system that was causing me frustration due to the creators and I having different ideas of the direction my favorite parts of the system should take! My RPG life is a lot more interesting and varied since I gave up on hanging solely onto D&D in favor of a wide variety of systems!

[Noserenda]

We have had decade long codexes and army books before, it was a fairly awful experience for those armies tbh, getting increasingly irrelevant and marginalised.

I think a decent refresh every few years (whether a new battletome or WD/campaign book expansion) is a good thing to shake things up and then a system reset every decade or so to ferret out the bad design choices and simplify what has inevitably become a bit of a rules bramble. 40k was especially bad for this by 7th edition, the movement phase for example was bending over backwards to not give units a simple move stat and it meant pages of rules, with edge cases and oddities all over.

Its also worth mentioning that D&D has a completely different book selling structure to AoS, a dedicated D&D collector will have bought dozens of weighty hardback books in that time compared to a battletome, rulebook and a campaign expansion or two. That or their GM has and they have bought ****** all anyway

[yukishiro1]

The 3 year release cycle for GW games is another artefact of their stubborn refusal to do digital rules with periodic updates (aside from points twice a year, or not even that if they don't feel like it "they didn't have enough data"). When you get one book an edition and no substantive updates to that book, you can't really stretch things out further or it just gets too painful for people who get the duds - and GW seems incapable of putting out books of uniform quality. In the old days when editions lasted longer that generally just meant that the winners won more and the losers lost more. 

You could have an edition go longer than 3 years if you weren't beholden to a physical book release schedule where each faction gets one book spaced roughly across the course of an edition. The FOMO stuff plays into it too, the release schedule is set up in such a way that there'll always be something new coming out soon to stimulate your wallet interest rather than having a game where the focus is on making the game itself better. 

Think how much better things would be if you weren't tied to the missteps in a battletome for the entire cycle - so like after 6 months instead of just getting price cuts on bad units and increases on good ones, you could actually shake things up by, say, putting a rider on Sentinel lofted shots that you can't reroll hits while using them, or buffing Gitz not by making them cheaper but by actually rewriting their allegiance ability to work better and be a more important part of the army. 

 

Edited October 26, 2021 by yukishiro1

[Orbei]

2 hours ago, Noserenda said:

We have had decade long codexes and army books before, it was a fairly awful experience for those armies tbh, getting increasingly irrelevant and marginalised.

Yeah, it's awful if GW lets it be awful. If they just update the rules for all factions periodically via FAQs or, preferably, fully digital rules offerings, it wouldn't be awful. It would be great!

2 hours ago, Noserenda said:

a system reset every decade or so

I would love this! Unfortunately we get a system reset far more frequently than every decade.

 

2 hours ago, Noserenda said:

Its also worth mentioning that D&D has a completely different book selling structure to AoS

Thats the thing though. D&D is a book centric game. The rules are the game, it's really the only thing they have to sell. And yet they keep a core ruleset for a much longer period of time. Books you buy are relevant for years. GW's core product is (or should be) miniatures, not books. Yet they seem to want to sell you as many books as possible with very short useful life before they are obsolete.