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The 1000 Point Army Respository


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Bit of a fun challenge (hopefully) for you all. With the new edition, there are players who want to start a new army or enjoy playing the game if they have never seen it before. So no hard and fast rules but if you were to advise somebody new to the game or an army, what would you suggest?

My attempt is Ogors. List is simply a Stonehorn and lots of Mournfangs. It has some staying power, can smash things up and is straight forwards to use.

Allegiance: Ogor Mawtribes
- Mawtribe: Boulderhead
- Mortal Realm: Ghur
- Grand Strategy: Beast Master - Triumphs:
LEADERS
Frostlord on Stonehorn (430)*
- General
- Command Trait: Lord of Beasts - Artefact: Brand of the Svard
- Mount Trait: Rockmane Elder
UNITS
2 x Mournfang Pack (160)*
- Gargant Hackers
2 x Mournfang Pack (160)*
- Gargant Hackers
2 x Mournfang Pack (160)*
  - Gargant Hackers
CORE BATTALIONS
*Battle Regiment

What would you suggest to somebody? Again, no hard and fast rules. So you can be super competitive, themed, easy to paint, easy to use, etc.

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Here's a 1000 point Soulblight Gravelords list I would feel good about recommending to new players:

Allegiance: Soulblight Gravelords
- Lineage: Vyrkos Dynasty
- Grand Strategy:
- Triumphs:

Leaders
Belladamma Volga, First of the Vyrkos (200)
- Lore of the Vampires: Soulpike
Vengorian Lord (280)
- General
- Command Trait: Hunter's Snare
- Artefact: Sangsyron
- Universal Spell Lore: Flaming Weapon

Battleline
10 x Dire Wolves (135)
20 x Deathrattle Skeletons (170)
- Reinforced x 1

Units
5 x Blood Knights (195)

Total: 980 / 2000
Reinforced Units: 1 / 4
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 74
Drops: 5
 

The idea behind this list is that every unit should be a staple that has a high chance to go into whatever 2000 point list you might eventually want to build. Also, I wanted to include only models from the most recent release.

I believe the list is a good representation of the intended SBGL play style, a mix of cheap summonable battleline, elite troops and strong support heroes. While I selected Vyrkos for this list, it can also be played in Kastelai or Legion of Night to give you the opportunity to test out multiple play styles. Artefacts and spells are selected to signpost possible fun combos and interactions.

EDIT:

Cost and availability: 3/5

No start collecting or other bundles, but all units are regularly available (not out of production, not locked in starter boxes...) and you don't need to jump through any hoops to put the list together.

Painting and modelling: 4/5

All kits are new and fully plastic. While the list is somewhat high in models (Soulblight are a horde faction, after all), the horde portions of the list are easy to paint. The elite units offer a bit more of a challenge, but no to the point of being unmanagable.

Start with the Direwolves and learn the basics of basecoat-wash-drybrush. Belladamma Volga can be done similarly, and you can also get used to layering with her clothes and skin.

Skeletons can be painted quickly and easily by drybrushing them completely in a bone colour, using a contrast paint for the cloth and metallics for the armour.

Blood Knights are visually impressive and offer a good opportunity to practice edge highlights. The Vengorian Lord is a matching centerpiece to try whenever you feel up to it.

Mechanics: 4/5

The list is tuned enough to be fun, but not overwhelmingly strong. It participates in all phases that Gravelords can participate in and makes use of every Gravelords allegiance ability. Since the list does not rely on subfaction-locked battleline and has a generic hero that can be your general, you can give all the different Gravelords subfactions a try to see what you like. It should give you a good impression of at least Vyrkos, Kastelai and Legion of Night.

Expansion potential and future proofing: 5/5

I think this is where the list really shines. You can expand this list into any of the tournament viable archetypes: Vyrkos horde, Kastelai Blood Knights, Legion of Night with Mannfred, Nagash...

Since the list runs a large variety of units, future battletomes are unlikely to invalidate it completely.

Run this list if...

...you want a solid, generalist foundation for a Soulblight army that lets you test out various playstyles and offers opportunities to practice painting, while being decently powerful on the tabletop at the same time.

Edited by Neil Arthur Hotep
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My idea for a good starter to AoS 3.0 would probably be Stormcasts for a few reasons. First, they're very easy to paint and I think that's important for helping newbies into painting and gaming is making it as easy to paint as possible to begin with. Secondly Stormcast Eternals are a faction that allows for some mistakes and can still recover which is important when considering how many mistakes a new player can make I wanted them to have a faction that can handle that. Thirdly, it's very easy to get second hand Stormcast Eternals stuff for cheap since many box sets offer them up as the order faction (you'll almost always be able to go half in for a battle box and still end up with models you'll use). Finally, Stormcast can really interact with all phases of the game to some degree which not all factions can do.

 

Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals
-  Stormhost: Hammers of Sigmar
- Grand Strategy:
Triumphs:


Leaders
Lord Arcanum on Celestial Dracoline (200)*
- General
- Command Trait: Shock and Awe
- Artefact: Hammer of Might (Aetherstave)
- Mount trait: Aetheric Swiftness
- Spell: Chain Lightning


Battleline
5 x Judicators (200)*
-Skybolt bow
-1 Shockbolt bow

5 x Liberators (115)*
-Warhammers and shields
-1 Grandhammers


Units
3 x Evocators on Celestial Dracolines (280)*
-2 Grandstaves

Artillery
 Celestar Ballista (140)*

 

*Battle Regiment

 

Here's a list I feel can be taken many different ways with some shooting, magic, and melee so the new player can find their own play style and what they enjoy before expanding their Stormhost out. I also feel like most if not all of these models are still going to be good regardless, so there's little to no worry about invalidation of your army by points increases and the like. The only thing I wish I could add would be a monster so they can try out the monstrous rampage rules.

 

EDIT: Updated list it was out of date. Had to make a few changes but the core remains the same.

Edited by GrogTheGrognard
List was out of date
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Here are a pair of 1k lists to get a feel for seraphon. 

The first of which is a Dracothian's Tail list as summoning is proportionally stronger at smaller point values I feel, and the DT summoning package could reliably spit out two salamander units over a game, making the losses sustained more bearable as at 1k it is hard to move screens in to save sallies in certain situations.

Slann starmaster 265

General (ancient knowledge) + godbeast pendant

starting with stellar tempest and mystical unforging - one can give away first turn after comfortably dropping the blob in the middle with a knight screen (1 drop list that doesn't particularly care how an opponent deploys thanks to LOSAT) and take a 1/3 shot at destroying an artifact on a herohammer opponent as they advance, or just mortal wound blanket with comet+ tempest; we are holding our third spell back for CCPs most turns unless there is a REALLY good reason to take a third cast. In response to shooting threats we swap unforging for heal

Astrolith Bearer 150

saurus guard 115

saurus knights  110

3x salamander hunting pack 120 x 3 = 360 (1 reinforced group if desired for stronger LOSAT strikes)

= 1000 on the money

prized sorcery on the premise that the entire line of play is through the slann anyway, if he goes down and pendant fails it is unlikely this list can recover. Our tricks to keep him up though should prevent incidental shooting from plinking him, and dedicated shooting will be dealt with from LOSAT sally strikes. Losses will almost certainly come from the slann going down early, and close games should see him live, as well as blowouts, making this the preferred strategy in my opinion. 

This list would teach the basics of LOSAT usage, summoning, slann protection, decent mortal wound magical output if necessary, has enough shooting to handle most things at 1000 points while teaching target priority, a single drop to teach deployment reading and turn selection, mystical unforging to deal with the hero stacks that are so potent at low points, and has a screen to allow practice with aggressive deployments

This is the list I would want to be running at 1k in a doubles game or something, and I think showcases the scalpel style we can play as opposed to pure monster mash that has taken over the competitive seraphon scene. I don't think it is the most competitive 1k list out there, but it likely wouldn't be frustratingly weak either, moderate floor with a fairly high ceiling.

 

The second list is a thunder lizard chief bomb that gives up turn selection to create a herohammer unit that should break through most anything the opponent may have. The chief is fast and can fly, and is being given a 3d6 charge to avoid screens (which should be thinner at 1000 anyway) and will kill anything it slams into. The math on this list puts it just shy of the 1 gargent a turn threshold necessary for a 2k list, so is more than sufficient to obliterate 1-2 units a turn. Losses will come from losing the chief to a countercharge if you don't destroy something dangerous or valuable enough, but he is reasonably durable at this point range.

Stegadon With Skink Chief 305

General, prime warbeast, artifact cloak of feathers

Skink Priest 80

heal; here to give CA to the bastillidon before it double shoots when you have 3+ CP on a turn either from going second or rolling one during hero phase

Skink Starseer 145

hand of glory (for when unique spell is out of range, otherwise unique spell will outperform HoG); artifact fusil of conflagration

Bastillidon with solar engine 235

Saurus knights x2 110x2 =220

Total 985

buffs for chief: prime warbeast +1 attack to each mount attack (including bow), CA +1 attack to each melee attack, 3d6 charge from starseer, run and charge from priest, 1 extra jaw attack from coalesced, extra -1 rend to an opposing unit from starseer spell (not a turn 1 play, but aim for this second charge), roar to turn off CA to protect from all out defense as a priority

Chief charge + double shooting from bastillidon should cause 30 wounds or so to a 3+ save (napkin math), pushing through most wards and defenses folks can muster on units at 1000 points.

Minor heroes in command entourage with chief for second artifact so the cloak of feathers can be given. This artifact is strong enough with the movement and flying and defense boost (-1 to hit) to be worth losing dictation of turn priority. If given first turn you can make a strong play to charge immediately, with 12" move + 6" run + 3d6" charge which is sufficient to hit something worthwhile in many deployment schemes. Don't be afraid to charge into an undefended flank even if ideal targets are elsewhere as long as retaliation is unlikely. You can chalk up points, charge flanks, and soften targets with the bastillidon for 2 turns and commit your missile turn 3 if you are worried about retaliation killing your chief.   

CP priorities: stegadon uses CA on itself for 1, double shoot basty for 1, +1 to hit for turn for basty from priest for 1 (important because 1 command per phase otherwise prevents the critical +1 to hit and the double shoot command from being given to a bastillidon), auto run 6 if you get run and charge off on the chief from priest staff

This list is utterly filthy to be frank, but allows one to practice with the two major tools we have at our competitive disposal, a fully buffed skink chief, and a double shooting bastillidon. These pieces are what are keeping seraphon in the top tier of lists, only struggling with archaon lists for the most part (I am developing a build that should take out archaon through his defenses at 2k using a carnosaur and some shooting support) and practicing with them in a stripped down environment would be quite useful for a new player, but taking this list to a friendly pick up game or new player event may result in a lopsided scoreline if rolls fall in your favor (but at 1k this happens A LOT, it is a very swingy point value). 

Seraphon have so many strong pieces that it feels comfortable to build them into 1, 1.5, or 2k lists quite readily, and if you are a new player reading this I highly recommend this faction. Our leaders are strong and worth learning how to use, they all have a place. Saurus knights are an excellent battleline screen, taking up a lot of real estate if you run them "sideways" in a line of 5, as much as AoS 1 and 2 screens used to before coherency rule changes invalidated skink screens and such. Our specialty tools like salamanders and kroxigors do their job well, bastillidons deliver reliable shooting from far enough out to camp objectives and still pick relevant targets, and a supported carnosaur or stegadon skink chief can put out 20+ wounds in melee against armored targets, which when combined with shooting can reliably remove problematic heroes or hammer units safely (IE not having to multicharge and take damage back on a second unit, like one often has to do to put down gargants with amulet of destiny and the like). Overall the faction uses layered synergies and buffs as opposed to raw warscroll power, but learning to harness those effects and understand the limitations of the system in terms of buff stacking (max of +1, max of 1 CA per phase, max of 1 effect on a unmodded 6, etc) still results in very strong coordinated strikes to take down large blocks, hammers, or god models quite efficiently. 

Edited by jjb070707
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Allegiance: Ironjawz - Warclan: Ironsunz   

LEADERS

Orruk Megaboss (140)

Orruk Warchanter (115)

Orruk Warchanter (115)

UNITS

5 x Orruk Brutes (160)

5 x Orruk Brutes (160)

3 x Orruk Gore-gruntas (150)

3 x Orruk Gore-gruntas (150)

TOTAL: 990/1000 WOUNDS: 79

Megaboss & Warchanters to buff and give commands

Ironsunz can charge at the end of enemy charge phase

Pigs are nice and fast for taking alpha strike or objectives

Brutes pack a punch and can hold objectives. Not a lot of rules to remember, just smash the enemy!

 

Edited by Bruteforce
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I got a 1k S2D list that is designed well for new players as it is fairly cheap to build and only includes staple models. Its 1 start collecting box, an extra unit of knights (which buying 2 start collecting is not a bad idea), and 2 other heroes.

Its Ravagers Legion so its not a bad idea to pick up some cultist (if you have the starter box for warcry your golden). But honestly you dont need to summon stuff to win.

Everything is marked Tzeentch mainly cuz its a powerful mark but also this makes it simple when keeping marked units in range of correct marked hero, as well as give another layer of spell protection around current general.

The Ravagers allow all heroes to take a command trait which works well here giving the Karkadrak further melee protection making him an easy 2 up save, rerolling 1s, with 4+ spell ignore, a 5+ ward vs mortals, and a -1 to hit in combat, rerolling all to hit and to wounds from sorcerer spell, and fighting twice each combat from chaos lord command ability, this is crazy on a 1k game to stack so many buffs.

The Chaos Lord on foot has amulet of destiny so he can jump in and fight too, and trait which allows him to modify his Eye of the Gods roll, so you can more easily summon some deamons or turn into a deamon prince.

Then the wizard gets bolstered by hate, beefing him up vs shooting. I gave him call to glory spell but most times your gonna want to go with his warscroll spell.

You can mix up the command traits, artifact, spell, with those in the ghb for variety with this list but its a great start to larger army, and ez to pilot/learn.

Allegiance: Slaves to Darkness
 - Damned Legion: Ravagers
LEADERS
Chaos Lord on Karkadrak (225)*
- General
- Mark of Chaos: Tzeentch
- Ravagers Command Trait: Master of Deception
Chaos Lord (120)*
- Reaperblade & Daemonbound Steel
- Artefact: Amulet of Destiny 
- Mark of Chaos: Tzeentch
- Ravagers Command Trait: Favoured of the Pantheon
Chaos Sorcerer Lord (115)*
- Mark of Chaos: Tzeentch
- Ravagers Command Trait: Bolstered by Hate
- Spell: Call to Glory
UNITS
10 x Chaos Warriors (200)*
- Hand Weapon & Shield
- Mark of Chaos: Tzeentch
5 x Chaos Knights (170)*
- Ensorcelled Weapons
- Mark of Chaos: Tzeentch
5 x Chaos Knights (170)*
- Ensorcelled Weapons
- Mark of Chaos: Tzeentch
CORE BATTALIONS
*Battle Regiment
TOTAL: 1000/1000 WOUNDS: 71

Edited by ChaosUndivided
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6 hours ago, GrogTheGrognard said:

My idea for a good starter to AoS 3.0 would probably be Stormcasts for a few reasons. First, they're very easy to paint and I think that's important for helping newbies into painting and gaming is making it as easy to paint as possible to begin with. Secondly Stormcast Eternals are a faction that allows for some mistakes and can still recover which is important when considering how many mistakes a new player can make I wanted them to have a faction that can handle that. Thirdly, it's very easy to get second hand Stormcast Eternals stuff for cheap since many box sets offer them up as the order faction (you'll almost always be able to go half in for a battle box and still end up with models you'll use). Finally, Stormcast can really interact with all phases of the game to some degree which not all factions can do.

 

Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals
-  Stormhost: Hammers of Sigmar
- Grand Strategy:
Triumphs:


Leaders
Lord Arcanum on Celestial Dracoline (225)*
- General
- Command Trait: We Cannot Fail
- Artefact: God-Forged Blade (Aetherstave)


Battleline
5 x Judicators (150)*
-Skybolt bow
-1 Shockbolt bow

10 x Liberators (190)*
-Warhammers and shields
-2 Grandhammers

- Reinforced x 1


Units
3 x Evocators on Celestial Dracolines (280)*
-2 Grandstaves

Artillery
 Celestar Ballista (120)*

 

*Battle Regiment

 

Here's a list I feel can be taken many different ways with some shooting, magic, and melee so the new player can find their own play style and what they enjoy before expanding their Stormhost out. I also feel like most if not all of these models are still going to be good regardless, so there's little to no worry about invalidation of your army by points increases and the like. The only thing I wish I could add would be a monster so they can try out the monstrous rampage rules.

This is an old list. There is a new battletome with new points, artifacts etc. Agree with Stormcast being a good starter army, though.

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I myself am a new player who's working towards a 1k list, hoping I can post here and get a little feedback

 

Allegiance: Skaventide

Heroes

Warlock Bombardier (125)

          General
          Artifact: Amulet of Destiny or maybe Vigordust Injector

          Command Trait: Masterful Scavenger

           Spell: More-More-More WarpPower!  

Clawlord  (105)

           Command Trait: Verminous Valor

Battleline

Clanrats x20     (130)

Clanrats x20     (130)

                    all with rusty blades

Units

Stormfiends    (315)

              shock gauntlets, ratling cannons, warpfire projectors

Artillery

Warp Lightning Cannon (185)

Total: 990/1000, 76 wounds

General goal is to get the clanrats forward to screen and gum up the battlefield, the Clawlord leading one pack to give them some extra punch, preventing them from being ignorable. The clawlord will stay alive through the "Verminous Valor" command trait (which he gets due to the Clan Verminous rule "Mighty Warlords"), letting him pass off successful wounds to the clanrats on a 4+. While the clanrats are being an anvil, the stormfiends can pick a target and hammer them hard. The Bombardier should stay safe at the back, casting buffs onto the stormfiends and letting the warp lightning cannon overcharge to hopefully pick off a hero or elite unit in the first turn or two.  

Collecting wise, this is the mandatory basic battleline (personally purchased for cheap off ebay) plus a "Rattachak's Doom Coven" collecting box, and a clawlord. 

 

I wasn't sure if the clawlord should instead be a plague priest, but it seemed like the list could use some extra melee power so the rats can be more than a one turn speed bump.

 

 

 

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I like this trend of 1000 point armies and have another submission for consideration. This list again (like the seraphon ones above) leans into practicing using strong units and 3.0 strategies for newer players so that universal strategy and tactical ideas can be the focus of their games as opposed to struggling with poorly tuned units who's abilities may conflict with themselves or other pieces of a list.

This list leans heavily into what I think lumineth shine in, which is free target selection and mortal wound output. The emphasis here is therefore on learning which pieces are required to make an opponents army operate, which can be ignored for now, which pieces are the largest threat to you, and how much "split-fire" is desired versus learning when to overkill units to better protect key areas. It also offers a strong dueling piece to engage a hero or hammer unit that threatens the sentinels, ensuring that some of the cheesier teleporting pieces like brute bombs aren't just going to beat you to a pulp no matter what you do. The idea here is to work on understanding proactive targeting and list reading while having output that can be applied most anywhere on the battlefield.

The expected output of each 20 sentinel unit vs a 4+ save is 6.33 mortals and 1.583 unsaved wounds with power of hysh on (both sentinel units will be casting power of hysh more often than not, and the wardens will use lambent light on anything close enough to be a threat to support the sentinels) Remember to reroll all rolls that don't cause a mortal (spell does not specify "misses") as most throughput is from mortals as opposed to random rend 0 wounds.

The expected output of a 20 sentinel unit shooting at something with lambent light (and power of hysh) is 10.89 mortals and 0.57 unsaved wounds vs 4+

The expected output of a 20 sentinel unit without power of hysh or lambent light is 3.166 mortals and 1.32 unsaved wounds vs a 4+

The expected output of a 20 sentinel unit without power of hysh but with lambent light is 5.805 mortals and 1.06 unsaved wounds vs a 4+

These numbers allow a new general to plan what needs to be removed most from the opponents toolkit, and how to effectively do so making tactical analysis and planning the major skill taught. At lower points values this is an easier skill to learn, as it becomes substantially more difficult to analyze an opponents list and plan as a new player at 2000 points with the multitude of spells and artifacts, types of units, and synergies present. Practicing this skill early will lead to much stronger generalship overall, and a strong shooting list that is primarily providing mortal wounds is in my opinion the best way to practice this without the variance of opponent buffs and interactions skewing the results too far from the expected outcome. In other words, a young general could confidently point both units at someone's hammer knowing it will be removed when he or she realizes that if this unit gets to my battle lines it will chew through me in combat with impunity. 

The ability to overwatch with unleash hell also makes this quite a bit more forgiving than many other armies, as weakened hammers are still quite terrifying to many things besides sentinel blocks.

Great nation: Syar for 2x aetherquartz (for +1 save from opposed shooting more often than not, unless you can remove all your opponents shooting threats with your first volley) (artifact CA don't matter as the general is a named character; this is a byproduct of all the units being relatively expensive and unwieldy at 1000 points)

Light of Eltharion  - 250 (general)

Vanari Wardens x 10 - 145 (battleline 1)

   -Lambent Light

Vanari Sentinels x 20 -300 (battleline 2)

   - Solar Flare

Vanari Sentinels x 20 - 300 (not battleline)

   -Lambent Light

for 995 points

Edited by jjb070707
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15 hours ago, jjb070707 said:

Vanari Sentinels x 20 -300 (battleline 2)

   - Solar Flare

Vanari Sentinels x 20 - 300 (not battleline)

40 sentinels at 1000 points will teach the prospective new player that this is a hobby where your opponents tend to roll their eyes and hate you.  

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10 hours ago, annarborhawk said:

40 sentinels at 1000 points will teach the prospective new player that this is a hobby where your opponents tend to roll their eyes and hate you.  

I guess I have always done my wargaming with folks who tune lists and plan ahead for most of the threats expected. If you were playing against a kid who dug up models from his dad's old chest, sure play down, but to someone entering a wargame wanting to learn their chosen faction and the common types of strategies advising them not to practice with their best pieces feels dishonest. And in my thoughts, lumineth's best piece is sentinels which help to offset their otherwise lackluster damage with strong target selection and mortal wounds that aren't tied to magic and therefore negatable by common units.

Learning the pieces that make up larger lists in simplified settings are useful. I wouldn't see two hammers of sentinels as any worse than a couple blocks of longstrike vanguard, a few copies of the new SCE champion with the bow or a few foxes, a block of flamers of tzeentch, or an ironclad of thunderers which are some of the most common shooting hammers in the game right now and at about the same point cost as those sentinels (600). That is also about the ideal ratio of threat per 1000 points to feel reasonable. Most skewed lists are presenting greater fractions of points in hammers or whatever niche they are playing into. 

Shooting hammers are especially "fair" as they crumble to most assaults, and there are so many fast melee units, deepstrikes, unavoidable synergies, summons, ward saves, and unkillable anvils in 3.0 that I couldn't fathom rolling my eyes or hating someone for bringing simple honest blocks of shooting troops, sentinels feel like the core strategy the army was designed to embody, not some gimmick resulting from an oversight. I guess we look at wargaming differently. Pretty much every faction right now has a way to build or answer shooting like this through splitting their hammers, using their own tricks, or responding with their own punch either with units protected or their own first strike. I'd rather play against strong blocks of infantry that embody the soul of a faction the way high elf archers do as opposed to some of the cheesier hero stacks like Archaon in DoT or Nagash in SBGL. And I guess I see small games as ways to strip down everything that is going on and allow someone to focus on the fundamentals of AoS as a wargame, which I stand by a sentinel heavy army helping to show, as its strength is in its flexibility of delivering its damage, but its overall damage is not overtuned such that it is just tabling the opponent on turn 3 leaving no need to think before you shoot so to speak. Maybe you consider 12-14 expected wounds per turn way over the top, but to me that seems pretty tame while still presenting meaningful decisions to the new pilot.

I guess at the end of the day, if your response to a new player using the units and tactics that form the core of their army well is to hate them or roll your eyes, wargaming might not be for you. I personally love seeing new players play well both on board and in list design and become strong adversaries. I'd rather match wits with a master than a fool, and so much of the strategy in this game is split between list design and list piloting, that to neglect structuring strong lists as part of teaching someone seems erroneous to me, and makes for both a poorer list builder and a less effective list pilot. 

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I guess it all depends on what these potential new players want to do with their army. Do they want to get a general feel for what the army can bring to the table in more than one aspect? Then you might want to suggest a mix of Vanari and add one of the tables, either Mountain or Wind. At least to me the Aelementiri represent a large part of what makes Lumineth their own thing and not just High Elves. 

If the assumed new players wants to win a list and is fine with spamming the best unit, then @jjb070707's list is a good way to start. But if 60% of your points are made up of just one type of unit - that is pretty spammy to me.

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40 sentinels at 1000 points teachers the player using it and the player opposing it that this is a game where the strongest ranged unit is chosen and gameplay revolves around taking away options from the other player without seeing their toys fight back.

However if I was getting someone whose interest in the game was winning at pure tactical wargaming and that was the hook, then sure. 

 

 

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To me, a good list for new players should do something in (almost) every phase of the game & have enough models for a back & forth.

Therefore I suggest Kruleboys with a list akin to the following:

Allegiance: Kruleboyz

- Warclan: Big Yellers
- Grand Strategy: Whateve

- Triumphs:

LEADERS

Snatchaboss on Sludgeraker Beast (315)*

- General
- Command Trait: Egomaniak - Artefact: Mork's Eye Pebble - Mount Trait: Smelly 'Un

Swampcalla Shaman with Pot-grot (105)*

- Lore of the Swamp: Choking Mist

UNITS

10 x Gutrippaz (180)*
3 x Man-skewer Boltboyz (120)*

3 x Man-skewer Boltboyz (120)* 

ARTILLERY
Beast-skewer Killbow (130)* CORE BATTALIONS
*Battle Regiment

TOTAL: 970/1000

WOUNDS: 57

It has a Monster, a sorcerer, a combat unit with a neat special rule, 2 shooting units (could be unified as one) and one piece of artillery. Kruleboys also have a few tricks up their sleeve which in turn teach timing and the proper use of "one-time-effects".

 

Edited by Rachmani
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52 minutes ago, Wordy9th said:

40 sentinels at 1000 points teachers the player using it and the player opposing it that this is a game where the strongest ranged unit is chosen and gameplay revolves around taking away options from the other player without seeing their toys fight back.

However if I was getting someone whose interest in the game was winning at pure tactical wargaming and that was the hook, then sure.

To be honest, I kinda feel that 40 Sentinels is a fairly significant skew even at 2000 points. But the reason I would personally not recommend this list to a new player is that painting 40 Sentinels as a beginner seems incredibly daunting.

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43 minutes ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

To be honest, I kinda feel that 40 Sentinels is a fairly significant skew even at 2000 points. But the reason I would personally not recommend this list to a new player is that painting 40 Sentinels as a beginner seems incredibly daunting.

Absolutely. What models and the variety on offer for a starter army is an important consideration. Painting 40 zombies is one thing, but 40 detailed, elite Sentinels? That's asking a lot.

Just wanted to add I've tried to think of my own SBGL starter army but the one you posted earlier in the thread is quite hard to beat for all the factors under consideration. So well done there :).

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The sentinel spam list is an interesting addition to the topic. It goes to show that before suggesting a list, or even a faction, it's important to understand what the new player wants to get out of the game. Lumineth are currently at the top of the meta and sentinel spam is the strongest sort of build. 40 sentinels is pretty gross and is going to be a very negative play experience if they play anything but another very strong list. They should buy into this only with a full understanding of what it is. Not suitable for a friendly game, very good for prepping for the bleeding edge tournament scene. 

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To me the problem of a 40 sentinels list for a new player, apart from being problematic for their opponents IF the "gaming contract" is not very clear, is that it teaches very little and this is relevant even if they want to go for a very competitive approach.

The fact that they ignore LoS and are completely self contained means the player will learn nothing of positioning and auras. The fact that the list is almost entirely based on shooting means they will learn very little of movement, charges, piling in and coherency. The fact that it's based on killing the enemy means that they will learn little of playing the objectives, and so on.

Edited by Marcvs
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4 hours ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

To be honest, I kinda feel that 40 Sentinels is a fairly significant skew even at 2000 points. But the reason I would personally not recommend this list to a new player is that painting 40 Sentinels as a beginner seems incredibly daunting.

Aren't most lists intended to be a skew to perform properly? The idea of target saturation is what protects them. If your list was a balanced composition of many types of units and a moderate set of tools to deal with many other types of lists, the match would always come down to a dice roll for priority, there is a reason chess has a skewed win rate based on going first or second... Asymmetric wargaming offers a beautiful opportunity to set up advantages before the first volley is ever fired through list design. If you skew a list toward durability you are attempting to overwhelm the opponents steady state damage, if you skew with ranged threats you are overwhelming their "scalpel" responses, skew toward melee charges and you are relying on overall threat density to get "something" through and knowing that no matter what hits their line will chew through enough to make up for the things that got caught out on the trip over. Wargames are pretty much completely about skewing your resources in such a manner that a balanced response force cannot adequately address all of your threats, and to weather their strategies for counter attacks or skirmishing the best you can. 

To Maogrim's point: I do agree AoS has shifted the "feel" of lumineth beyond their high elf rank and file roots, but the scattered and sparse offerings of the different temples don't really replace the pikeman/archer core to me (yet). Especially at such a low point value, I feel like your list would be way to all over the place to really accomplish the necessary target removal to succeed if you leaned into a temple at 1000. I attempted to write some foxes into a 1k list, and it never felt like it either A) captured the feel of the high elves in battle or B) had anything more than melee frustration and gimmicks available to compete.

And to Marcvs's point: That is kind of the idea here, that the hammers just "work" and one can dedicate their early games to understanding the different opponents, how their lists work, how to best dismantle them 1-2 units at a time, and what might threaten their units, so when they move up to a "full game" of 2000 points it is not just so much utter chaos that they have no idea how and why their game fell apart and they lost. If a new player could practice reading opponents, understanding expected opposing playstyles, and selecting proper targets as opposed to dedicating all of their effort to piloting a more complicated list, when it is time to increase the complexity of the battle with more detailed missions, exponentially more possibilities of opponent strategy, and more units to manage of ones own, they would be ready. 

In essence, I am in no way suggesting this list is "fair" in that it loses ~50% of the time to whatever random pieces are placed against it, but simply that it offers a new player the best chance of understanding how to succeed with LRL at 2000 points by allowing them to practice the skills necessary to pilot LRL to strong finishes in a simpler environment. To me playing lumineth is much more about playing your opponent's list in reverse, knowing what cannot be allowed to be on the table for their next phase, and relies heavily on pilot game knowledge and understanding of other armies. For every LRL you see perform well, you see three more nearly identical lists operated by someone who has not prepared in this manner with 2-3 or 1-4 finishes.

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23 minutes ago, jjb070707 said:

For every LRL you see perform well, you see three more nearly identical lists operated by someone who has not prepared in this manner with 2-3 or 1-4 finishes.

this is OT but no, in 23 recent events (5 games/2000pts, stats from The Honest Wargamer) 75% of LRL players ended up doing 3-2 or better so it's actually the reverse (for every LRL you see perform badly, there's three more identical lists doing well :D )

 

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To also contribute to the actual topic, this is the list I use against new and new-ish players at my club. My idea is that it captures the resilience of Stormcasts and plays in all phases. It also teaches the threat of a fulminator's counterpunch

Spoiler
Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals
- Stormhost: Hallowed Knights (Stormkeep)
- Grand Strategy: Hold the Line
- Triumphs: Inspired
Gardus Steel Soul (160)*
Lord-Relictor (145)*
- General
- Command Trait: High Priest
- Artefact: Arcane Tome (Universal Artefact)
- Spell: Celestial Blades
- Prayer: Translocation
5 x Vindictors (130)*
5 x Vindictors (130)*
5 x Judicators with Skybolt Bows (200)*
2 x Dracothian Guard Fulminators (230)*
*Battle Regiment
Holy Command: Call for Aid

Total: 995 / 2000
Reinforced Units: 0 / 4
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 54
Drops: 1

 

 

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1 hour ago, Marcvs said:

this is OT but no, in 23 recent events (5 games/2000pts, stats from The Honest Wargamer) 75% of LRL players ended up doing 3-2 or better so it's actually the reverse (for every LRL you see perform badly, there's three more identical lists doing well :D )

 

I stand corrected. I've been using tabletop to for my stats as of late, or bcp, I didn't notice such an upswing in LRL average performance. I'll admit I only have old high elves models from a friends father, and I typically only actually put down sentinel block lists like that as a "challenge" to some of the lists I design. I see myself as more of a seraphon and vampire fanatic, so my only experience with Teclis/Archaon/Morathi piloting is proxies to test my "real" armies against.

To also get back on topic: here is 1000 points of kastelai that I was messing around with last night to try and a themed cavalry charge style list designed to just have a cinematic style coherent charge where one gets everything they can into combat on the same turn, blows its single use auras and hopefully does enough damage to survive whatever counterattack occurs. The list drops together as a single drop and is ideally playing for a turn 2 charge together after giving the first turn away, but if the opponent ties as a single drop and moves up can potentially charge turn 1 instead. 

The blood knights would be then doing 3 damage on the charge, have 4 wounds each, a 3+ save, a 5+ ward, and each unit causing 11.91 expected damage against a 3+ save (or a 4+ with all out defense/mystic shield/ ect). While a few knights may die (through 4 wounds, 3+/5+++ losses shouldn't be catastrophic) this charge should effectively turn the game into your favor. But like I had mentioned earlier, this is again a skew via target saturation, and being able to coordinate 80% of your army to charge together and benefit from single use auras is in no way assured, this is much harder to pilot than most other lists but would be really rewarding and fun, and captures the feel of an elite knight charge that is engrained into fantasy enthusiasts.

Wight King on Horseback; general, rousing commander and artifact grave-sand shard 130 

4 x blood knights 195 x4

Deathrattle skeletons 85

for 995 points

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Here's my suggestion of an Idoneth list for a new player interested in the wettest aelves around.

 Allegiance: Idoneth Deepkin
 - Enclave: Fuethan
 - Mortal Realm: Ghur
 - Grand Strategy: Predator's Domain
 - Triumphs: 
LEADERS
Isharann Soulscryer (140)
- General
- Command Trait: High Priest 
- Artefact: Arcane Tome 
- Lore of the Deeps: Pressure of the Deep
- Universal Prayer Scripture: Curse
UNITS
10 x Namarti Reavers (115)
10 x Namarti Reavers (115)
1 x Akhelian Allopexes (125)
- Razorshell Harpoon
1 x Akhelian Allopexes (125)
- Razorshell Harpoon
BEHEMOTHS
Akhelian Leviadon (380)
- Mount Trait: Ancient
TOTAL: 1000/1000 WOUNDS: 57

CORE BATTALION: Battle Regiment

I'm not sure if I'd recommend IDK in general to an imagined new player who is open to any faction. Not easy to paint and requires some finesse. But, this seems like a good 3.0 starting point for someone who is interested in neat fish. It's decently mobile with the option to deep strike and the sharks/turtle zooming around. Gorgeous models to paint and a decent mix of namarti/akhelian. Lots of chip shooting that can become extremely deadly if a target is cursed. Some hard hitting melee, but you really need to pick your fights well. The arcane tome, while not super great on the soulscryer, let's you experience the magic phase and maybe get lucky with a cheeky pressure of the deep cast deleting an enemy hero. None of the grand strategies are especially reliable here, so try predator's domain for some tactical late game decision making. All in all it does a bit of everything, which seems like a good way to start.

Unfortunately this is a pricey 1000 point list. No start collecting boxes here. 😞

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17 hours ago, Wordy9th said:

40 sentinels at 1000 points teachers the player using it and the player opposing it that this is a game where the strongest ranged unit is chosen and gameplay revolves around taking away options from the other player without seeing their toys fight back.

However if I was getting someone whose interest in the game was winning at pure tactical wargaming and that was the hook, then sure. 

 

 

40 sentinels in a 1000poins game.

skaven weapon team bombs will love that combination.

 

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14 hours ago, Marcvs said:

To also contribute to the actual topic, this is the list I use against new and new-ish players at my club. My idea is that it captures the resilience of Stormcasts and plays in all phases. It also teaches the threat of a fulminator's counterpunch

Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals
- Stormhost: Hallowed Knights (Stormkeep)
- Grand Strategy: Hold the Line
- Triumphs: Inspired
Gardus Steel Soul (160)*
Lord-Relictor (145)*
- General
- Command Trait: High Priest
- Artefact: Arcane Tome (Universal Artefact)
- Spell: Celestial Blades
- Prayer: Translocation
5 x Vindictors (130)*
5 x Vindictors (130)*
5 x Judicators with Skybolt Bows (200)*
2 x Dracothian Guard Fulminators (230)*
*Battle Regiment
Holy Command: Call for Aid

Total: 995 / 2000
Reinforced Units: 0 / 4
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 54
Drops: 1

This is a really nice list. It is active in all phases and uses only good units that should prove relevant also for a 2k list (with a minor caveat that the Stormcast Battletome has not yet received a FAQ so things could change).  It has only 19 models and the 15 battleline models of Vindictors and Judicators are easy to paint, especially if you start with the appropriate metallic spray can. The only downside is that some of the models are currently only available in various Starter boxes (what the heck, GW???), so you would probably want to use ebay or similar to get the Relictor and the Vindictors. 

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