AoS3- Big Waaagh!

[Malakree]

38 minutes ago, broche said:

Overall Kruleboyz just seem like a bad fit for Big Waaagh. Venom weapon really just doesn't mix well with big waagh bonus (to hit bonus are useless when you rol 5 or 6, and to wound bonus are irrelevant when you're doing lot's of MW). 

Most Kruleboyz armies are just running Big Yellers for the Man-Skewer battleline. Big Waaagh is essentially a way for IJ/BS armies to get access to Kruleboyz shooting which is a tool they just don't have access to. Equally Ardboyz provide something that neither of the other factions does, an 85 point tanky battleline unit.

If you run your normal Kruelboyz, swap with Big Waaagh and then just change your hobgrots for Ardboys, I'd say you've actually not lost that much in terms of potential.

[broche]

58 minutes ago, Tomplex said:

Ironjawz and bonesplitterz have subfaction and allegiance abilities that are too good to give up. 

I disagree for Ironjawz. I think a +1 to charge / hit / wound army wide is a fair tradeoff for smash and bash, IJ waaagh and clans (considering it's also widen your troops selection option)

For Kruleboyz, i'll rethink my position but it seem most Kruleboyz use heavy shooting and mortal strategy going big waaagh doesn't seem that appealing. Let say i'm using this as backbone

Quote

Allegiance: Big Waaagh!
- Grand Strategy:
- Triumphs:
Gobsprakk, The Mouth of Mork (280)
Swampcalla Shaman with Pot-grot (105)
Snatchaboss on Sludgeraker Beast (315)
5 x Orruk Ardboys (85)
5 x Orruk Ardboys (85)
5 x Orruk Ardboys (85)
6 x Man-skewer Boltboyz (240)
- Reinforced x 1
3 x Man-skewer Boltboyz (120)
Beast-skewer Killbow (130)

Total: 1445 / 2000
Reinforced Units: 1 / 4
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 87
Drops: 9
 

Not sure what I would take for the other 500 points? Ardboys just doesn't seem to fit well in the list, so i would rather use guttripaz with poison weapon even if they are a bit overcosted. I'm not generating extra waaagh points and a lot of my shooting will not benefit from end game bonus anyway. So I would rather take clans bonus and random trick (random doesn't mean it's bad as the effect are quite good unlike gloompsite bad moon for example)

[Malakree]

35 minutes ago, broche said:

Not sure what I would take for the other 500 points? Ardboys just doesn't seem to fit well in the list, so i would rather use guttripaz with poison weapon even if they are a bit overcosted. I'm not generating extra waaagh points and a lot of my shooting will not benefit from end game bonus anyway. So I would rather take clans bonus and random trick (random doesn't mean it's bad as the effect are quite good unlike gloompsite bad moon for example)

Spoiler

Allegiance: Big Waaagh!
- Grand Strategy:
- Triumphs:

Leaders
Gobsprakk, The Mouth of Mork (280)
Swampcalla Shaman with Pot-grot (105)
Snatchaboss on Sludgeraker Beast (315)
Orruk Warchanter (115)
- Artefact: Arcane Tome (Universal Artefact)
- Lore of the Weird: Da Great Big Green Hand of Gork
Wurrgog Prophet (150)
- Artefact: Glowin' Tattooz
Wardokk (80)

Battleline
5 x Orruk Ardboys (85)
5 x Orruk Ardboys (85)
5 x Orruk Ardboys (85)

Units
6 x Man-skewer Boltboyz (240)
- Reinforced x 1
3 x Man-skewer Boltboyz (120)
6 x Orruk Gore-gruntas (340)
- Pig-iron Choppas
- Reinforced x 1

Total: 2000 / 2000
Reinforced Units: 2 / 4
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 130
Drops: 12
 

You get hand of gork, Wurrgog with his lulz mask and 6ggs with a warchanter buff.

 

36 minutes ago, broche said:

I disagree for Ironjawz. I think a +1 to charge / hit / wound army wide is a fair tradeoff for smash and bash, IJ waaagh and clans (considering it's also widen your troops selection option)

Both Ironsunz and Bloodtoofs are unbelievably good while the current IJ strategy involves using IJ Waaagh and blowing your opponent off the table with -3 rend. Most games should be over before turn 3. 

Spoiler

Allegiance: Ironjawz
- Warclan: Bloodtoofs
- Grand Strategy:
- Triumphs:

Leaders
Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (480)
- Boss Gore-hacka and Choppa
Orruk Warchanter (115)
Orruk Warchanter (115)

Battleline
6 x Orruk Gore-gruntas (340)
- Pig-iron Choppas
- Reinforced x 1
6 x Orruk Gore-gruntas (340)
- Pig-iron Choppas
- Reinforced x 1
6 x Orruk Gore-gruntas (340)
- Pig-iron Choppas
- Reinforced x 1
3 x Orruk Gore-gruntas (170)
- Pig-iron Choppas
5 x Orruk Ardboys (85)

Core Battalions
*Battle Regiment

Total: 1985 / 2000
Reinforced Units: 3 / 4
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 145
Drops: 1

Something like that gives you a 1drop that has a ton of impact mortals, gets all the bloodtoofs after charges and can hit with -3 rend across the board.

[broche]

5 minutes ago, Malakree said:

Both Ironsunz and Bloodtoofs are unbelievably good while the current IJ strategy involves using IJ Waaagh and blowing your opponent off the table with -3 rend. Most games should be over before turn 3. 

I never said Ironjawz was bad or that big waagh was better than big waaagh, i argue that it is a viable option for an army composed with a majority of Ironjawz model  

 

8 minutes ago, Malakree said:

You get hand of gork, Wurrgog with his lulz mask and 6ggs with a warchanter buff.

I don't dislike your list. i'll probably drop wurgog and 3x boltboyz and use something else. Turn out to be similar to the kind of list I use but basicly replacing Maw krusha with 2 kruelboyz monster.

[Tomplex]

1 hour ago, broche said:

I disagree for Ironjawz. I think a +1 to charge / hit / wound army wide is a fair tradeoff for smash and bash, IJ waaagh and clans (considering it's also widen your troops selection option)

That's a fair point, I see where you're coming from. The only thing stopping me from agreeing with you is how long I have to wait to get that +1/+1. I can't really expect it until turn 3, and if I'm playing pure jawz with hunt and crush or alright, get em! I've got my most important combats already decided by then. 

 

Then again other players seem to have better luck racking up waaagh points than I do. 

 

As far as that list I'd bump up the shooting with more manskewers and think about a unit of goregruntaz to bully weaker objective holders. The gruntaz fill a hole that kruleboyz have in their native roster so that feels good to me.  I do think one unit of Gutrippaz as core is a good idea with a snatchaboss on the table.

[broche]

3 hours ago, Tomplex said:

That's a fair point, I see where you're coming from. The only thing stopping me from agreeing with you is how long I have to wait to get that +1/+1. I can't really expect it until turn 3, and if I'm playing pure jawz with hunt and crush or alright, get em! I've got my most important combats already decided by then. 

Note that BW is a different play style than Ironjawz (Ironjawz is quite agressive while BW is mostly defensive), and i'm not arguing it's a better overall army.

Unless you get alpha strike pretty bad or loose your general, you should easily get 16 in R2 and 20 in R3 (i even manage 20 in 2.2 without lucky roll in 1-2 games against melee army), giving you a pretty strong end game. Once you get unit locked in combat it stack up pretty quickly.

[Tomplex]

20 minutes ago, broche said:

Note that BW is a different play style than Ironjawz (Ironjawz is quite agressive while BW is mostly defensive), and i'm not arguing it's a better overall army.

Unless you get alpha strike pretty bad or loose your general, you should easily get 16 in R2 and 20 in R3 (i even manage 20 in 2.2 without lucky roll in 1-2 games against melee army), giving you a pretty strong end game. Once you get unit locked in combat it stack up pretty quickly.

Yeah, that's kinda my point. If your big waaagh has an ironjawz core, what are you doing with your units for those first turns? Running serpentine? Jawz have below average magic and non existent shooting. If you're charging units in to get  those  sweet big waaagh points, well, we don't have cheap, fast orruks so you're kind of making an aggressive commitment there. If you're not then you're putting your foot on the brakes which you have to ask yourself if you can afford to do that with whatever you're up against. 

 

Dipping into Kruleboyz doesn't make enough of an impact to warrant a defensive playstyle. Their units require a steep investment to get a return out of them. 

 

On the other hand dipping into Ironjawz gets you cheap battleline and fast, quality goregruntaz that can play cagey around that Kruleboyz core until the points can reach the 16 to 20 mark. Hopefully. 

 

 

[broche]

49 minutes ago, Tomplex said:

Yeah, that's kinda my point. If your big waaagh has an ironjawz core, what are you doing with your units for those first turns? Running serpentine? Jawz have below average magic and non existent shooting.

Move toward middle field and grab objective? Pick a fight or 2 on the egdge you can win or pin some units? Just playing the game lol. Anyway it's not like ardboyz or brutes can alpha strike anyway. You can usually set up a nice castle of ardboyz upfield supported by Wurgog and / or some shooters. 

 

[Jabbuk]

Playing around with my list a little bit, I kept thinking that I wanted speed and that it was missing from my list. I couldn't fit GGs with Brutes. I feel like I found my list, although unfortunately I'm not playing Brutes anymore.

Allegiance: Big Waaagh!
- Grand Strategy:
- Triumphs:
Gobsprakk, The Mouth of Mork (280)
Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (480)
- Boss Gore-hacka and Choppa
Swampcalla Shaman with Pot-grot (105)
Orruk Warchanter (115)
- Artefact: Arcane Tome (Universal Artefact)
5 x Orruk Ardboys (85)
5 x Orruk Ardboys (85)
5 x Orruk Ardboys (85)
6 x Man-skewer Boltboyz (240)
- Reinforced x 1
6 x Orruk Gore-gruntas (340)
- Pig-iron Choppas
- Reinforced x 1
Beast-skewer Killbow (130)
Chronomantic Cogs (45)

Total: 1990 / 2000
Reinforced Units: 2 / 4
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 121
Drops: 10
 

I feel like the list has several fast threats (GGs, MK), potentially cool spells, some nice shooting and some long range threat with the Killbow for potential swingy Monster hunting. Some screening with ardboys, I got the Warchanter with Teleport spell and arcane tome, and it all fits into 1945 points.i finished it up with Cogs because it made the more sense to me.

It feel better than my Brutes version. What do you guys think? Also, is it better to play GGs in 6s or in 3s now? I haven't played GGs in 3s yet but in 6s they always deleted what they touched.

 

[Malakree]

3 hours ago, Jabbuk said:

I feel like the list has several fast threats (GGs, MK), potentially cool spells, some nice shooting and some long range threat with the Killbow for potential swingy Monster hunting. Some screening with ardboys, I got the Warchanter with Teleport spell and arcane tome, and it all fits into 1945 points.i finished it up with Cogs because it made the more sense to me.

You could potentially drop the killbow/cogs for 10 gutripperz/savage orruks. Only thing you are missing is the BS wizard.

[Jabbuk]

2 hours ago, Malakree said:

You could potentially drop the killbow/cogs for 10 gutripperz/savage orruks. Only thing you are missing is the BS wizard.

I could fit the BS wizard but I feel that he's kinda lonely on his own and it makes the list too top heavy. I felt like he had no synergy with anyone else. I also felt that the Killbow filled out the same purpose of killing big Monsters. Speaking of which, I wonder why Kruleboyz Wizards are not deemed worthy of generating Waaagh points. That's kind of... strange, isn't it?

Edited March 12, 2022 by Jabbuk

[Arzalyn]

3 hours ago, Jabbuk said:

I wonder why Kruleboyz Wizards are not deemed worthy of generating Waaagh points. That's kind of... strange, isn't it?

I also didn't understand why they didn't give any benefits for having a kruleboyz hero or something. I understand that lore wise they take a while to join a waagh, but making Gobsprakk or the Murknob generate some points would make sense.

[Jabbuk]

On 3/12/2022 at 4:01 PM, Jabbuk said:

I could fit the BS wizard but I feel that he's kinda lonely on his own and it makes the list too top heavy. I felt like he had no synergy with anyone else. I also felt that the Killbow filled out the same purpose of mortal wounding big Monsters. Speaking of which, I wonder why Kruleboyz Wizards are not deemed worthy of generating Waaagh points. That's kind of... strange, isn't it?

What is you guys thoughts about drops in BW? Is it like, go 1drop or 2 drops and if you can't you should go for 2 warlords, or something? Does it matter if we go 4 drops anymore? I figure also that our deployment is fairly castle like and in the back, so I wonder if going first or 2nd matters that much in BW?

[NCFCpaul]

Hi all, been reading the thread and I'm surprised Kragnos gets little love. I'm using him in my Big Waaagh with some Kruleboyz as support for the Ironjawz. 

List looks like this, I'm constantly struggling with battalions so any thoughts would be welcome: 

 - Army Faction: Orruk Warclans
     - Army Type: Big Waaagh!
     - Grand Strategy: Sever the Head
     - Triumph: Inspired
LEADERS
Kragnos (720)
Killaboss on Great Gnashtoof (170)
     - General
     - Command Traits: Supa Sneaky
     - Artefacts of Power: Spiker Seeds
Orruk Megaboss (140)
Swampcalla Shaman and Pot-grot (105)
Orruk Warchanter (115)
BATTLELINE
5 x Orruk Brutes (160)
5 x Orruk Ardboys (85)
5 x Orruk Ardboys (85)
OTHER
6 x Man-skewer Boltboyz (240)
3 x Orruk Gore-gruntas (170)
TOTAL POINTS: 1990/2000
 

Edited March 18, 2022 by NCFCpaul
Typo

[Smash]

I think Kragnos is realy strong, but more so in one of the clans. After playing a few big waagh matches i keep adding more units, and fewer big heroes. Feel like it is more value in units, and buff pieces like chanters and one wurrgogh. 

[broche]

@NCFCpaul Kragnos isn't a bad model but i don't feel he fit that well in big waaagh (720 that will not benefit of the +1 to wound for example). Also one of the big buff of BW is magic with the +1/+1 cast/dispel. For example, your list have just the Swampcalla who will rarely cast spell. 

I think a Maw Krusha with an arcane tome would bring you much more value for a cheaper cost, and allow you to drop Megaboss for a wurgog (extra waaagh point per turn and big mortal output potential)

[Malakree]

13 minutes ago, broche said:

@NCFCpaul Kragnos isn't a bad model but i don't feel he fit that well in big waaagh (720 that will not benefit of the +1 to wound for example). Also one of the big buff of BW is magic with the +1/+1 cast/dispel. For example, your list have just the Swampcalla who will rarely cast spell. 

I think a Maw Krusha with an arcane tome would bring you much more value for a cheaper cost, and allow you to drop Megaboss for a wurgog (extra waaagh point per turn and big mortal output potential)

He doesn't benifit from any of the bonuses, they are all Orruk.

[broche]

10 minutes ago, Malakree said:

He doesn't benifit from any of the bonuses, they are all Orruk.

even worse

[Tomplex]

Allegiance: Big Waaagh!
- Grand Strategy: Hold the Line
- Triumphs: Indomitable

Leaders
Wurrgog Prophet (150)**
- Artefact: Glowin' Tattooz
- Lore of the Savage Beast: Gorkamorka's War Cry
- Universal Spell Lore: Levitate
Orruk Weirdnob Shaman (90)**
- Lore of the Weird: Da Great Big Green Hand of Gork
- Lore of the Weird: Foot of Gork
Orruk Warchanter (115)***
- Warbeat: Fixin' Beat
Orruk Warchanter (115)***
- Warbeat: Killa Beat
Killaboss on Great Gnashtoof (170)***
- General
- Command Trait: Slippery Skumbag
- Artefact: Arcane Tome (Universal Artefact)
- Mount Trait: Fast 'Un
- Lore of the Swamp: Choking Mist
- Universal Spell Lore: Flaming Weapon
Swampcalla Shaman with Pot-grot (105)
- Lore of the Swamp: Nasty Hex
- Lore of the Swamp: Choking Mist

Battleline
15 x Orruk Ardboys (255)*
- Reinforced x 2
15 x Orruk Ardboys (255)*
- Reinforced x 2
5 x Orruk Brutes (160)****
- Jagged Gore-hackas
- 1x Gore Choppas

Units
3 x Orruk Gore-gruntas (170)****
- Jagged Gore-hackas
3 x Orruk Gore-gruntas (170)****
- Jagged Gore-hackas
3 x Man-skewer Boltboyz (120)**
3 x Man-skewer Boltboyz (120)***

Core Battalions
*Hunters of the Heartlands
**Warlord
***Warlord
****Ironjawz Fist

Additional Enhancements
Spell
Artefact

Total: 1995 / 2000
Reinforced Units: 4 / 4
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 158
Drops: 13
 

Been thinking of mostly jawz lists thanks to broche and came up with the above. I'm excited to give this a go at my earliest opportunity. 

[broche]

Interesting list @Tomplex

I think I would split a ardboyz squad in 10/5 and merge the boltboyz togethers.

give it a try and let us know!

[Jabbuk]

After trying to design a list with both a MK and Gobsprakk in, I always thought I lacked bodies in them. I have 2 lists here that I think are really cool and honestly have a lot of tools. In both of them I have a big threat range (MK, or 6 GGs, Killbow, Bolboyz) I have several threats (at least 4 per list), I have MW, I have some good screens (ardboys), countercharge (brutes) and am over 130wounds.

This first one has the MK. It's more melee centric and counter charge with ranged threat. I dropped Gobsprakk here. I'd be curious to know what loadout would you give on the MK. One of the warchanters would have an Arcane Tome for sure for Hand of Gork.

Spoiler

Allegiance: Big Waaagh!
- Grand Strategy:
- Triumphs:

Leaders
Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (480)
- Boss Gore-hacka and Choppa
Orruk Warchanter (115)
Orruk Warchanter (115)
Swampcalla Shaman with Pot-grot (105)
Wurrgog Prophet (150)

Battleline
10 x Orruk Ardboys (170)
- Reinforced x 1
5 x Orruk Ardboys (85)
5 x Orruk Ardboys (85)
10 x Orruk Brutes (320)
- Jagged Gore-hackas
- Reinforced x 1

Units
6 x Man-skewer Boltboyz (240)
- Reinforced x 1

Artillery
Beast-skewer Killbow (130)

Total: 1995 / 2000
Reinforced Units: 3 / 4
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 130
Drops: 11
 

This one here has Gobsprakk in it. It's a bit more utility focused but packs a lot of punch still. I got the MB on foot for multiple command abilities, the GGs, for big threat range, along with the Killbow, and again, Arcane tome on the Warchanter for Hand of Gork. I topped it off with Cogs because it just fit.

Spoiler

Allegiance: Big Waaagh!
- Grand Strategy:
- Triumphs:

Leaders
Orruk Megaboss (140)
- General
Orruk Warchanter (115)
Orruk Warchanter (115)
Swampcalla Shaman with Pot-grot (105)
Wurrgog Prophet (150)
Gobsprakk, The Mouth of Mork (280)

Battleline
10 x Orruk Ardboys (170)
- Reinforced x 1
5 x Orruk Ardboys (85)
5 x Orruk Ardboys (85)

Units
6 x Orruk Gore-gruntas (340)
- Pig-iron Choppas
- Reinforced x 1
6 x Man-skewer Boltboyz (240)
- Reinforced x 1

Artillery
Beast-skewer Killbow (130)

Endless Spells & Invocations
Chronomantic Cogs (45)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Reinforced Units: 3 / 4
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 133
Drops: 12
 

What do you guys think about these? I can't wait to try them out. I'm finished my Tzeentch project this week and I'm pumped to paint the remainder Kruleboyz stuff I need to complete these lists.

 

Edited March 26, 2022 by Jabbuk

[Tomplex]

Welp, after a few games it's starting to look like big packs of ard boyz aren't for me. 10 is probably enough to soak a charge from a reasonably punchy unit but a proper powerhouse will atomize 15 as easily as 10 or 5. They definitely don't hit like aos2 ardboyz, which is fine. I appreciate the more clearly defined roles between them and brutes... I don't know. The list feels like it needs some more combat punch from somewhere. The gnashtoof can't do all the heavy lifting. 

 

Not really ready to give up on them yet, but I'll certainly be following the advice to move those reinforcement slots over to consolidating the Boltboyz. Maybe try to upgrade the gnashtoof to a sludgeraker. I'd miss that slippery mobility though. 

[Jabbuk]

On 4/20/2022 at 10:03 PM, Tomplex said:

Welp, after a few games it's starting to look like big packs of ard boyz aren't for me. 10 is probably enough to soak a charge from a reasonably punchy unit but a proper powerhouse will atomize 15 as easily as 10 or 5. They definitely don't hit like aos2 ardboyz, which is fine. I appreciate the more clearly defined roles between them and brutes... I don't know. The list feels like it needs some more combat punch from somewhere. The gnashtoof can't do all the heavy lifting. 

 

Not really ready to give up on them yet, but I'll certainly be following the advice to move those reinforcement slots over to consolidating the Boltboyz. Maybe try to upgrade the gnashtoof to a sludgeraker. I'd miss that slippery mobility though. 

Yeah, definitely. It feels like you don't have any hammer in there. I'd try to group up some units like the GGs in 6 or get a unit of 10 Brutes (like I did in my lists) and def group the Boltboyz together... to try to make them feel like threats. At some point, even though you gathered a lot of WPs (with the MSUs), no one significant can use the strong melee buffs. Like you said, ardboys don't hit hard at all anymore.

That being said, that my personal feeling. I haven't tried my lists yet.

[DerZauberer]

Had some nice games over the weekend against Maggotkin and Stormcast and won both with following Big Waaagh List:

Quote

Allegiance: Big Waaagh!
- Mortal Realm: Ghur
- Grand Strategy: Hold the Line
- Triumphs:

Leaders
Gobsprakk, The Mouth of Mork (280)*
Snatchaboss on Sludgeraker Beast (315)**
- General
- Command Trait: Egomaniak
- Artefact: Mork's Eye Pebble
- Mount Trait: Fast 'Un
Orruk Warchanter (115)*
- Artefact: Arcane Tome (Universal Artefact)
- Warbeat: Get 'Em Beat
- Lore of the Weird: Da Great Big Green Hand of Gork
Orruk Warchanter (115)*
- Warbeat: Fixin' Beat
Wurrgog Prophet (150)**
- Artefact: Glowin' Tattooz
- Lore of the Savage Beast: Gorkamorka's War Cry
Swampcalla Shaman with Pot-grot (105)**
- Lore of the Swamp: Nasty Hex

Battleline
10 x Orruk Brutes (320)***
- Jagged Gore-hackas
- Reinforced x 1
5 x Orruk Ardboys (85)*
5 x Orruk Ardboys (85)**

Units
6 x Man-skewer Boltboyz (240)*
- Reinforced x 1
3 x Orruk Gore-gruntas (170)***
- Pig-iron Choppas

Core Battalions
*Warlord
**Warlord
***Hunters of the Heartlands

Additional Enhancements
Artefact
Artefact

Total: 1980 / 2000
Reinforced Units: 2 / 4
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 130
Drops: 11

I think it has a lot of unique options and takes good advantage of big waaagh with 4 spell casters. It pretty much has all the tools (gorkamorka warcry, hand of gork, nasty hex) and gobsprakk is a great utility piece here as well. You generate good Waaagh Points and have the neceserry redundant warchanters for BW.

I played it slowly and cagey turn 1 and 2 as BW and the chosen units are inherintly slow. Gobsprakks reposition 6" here was very helpful.  You pretty much have 3 major threats, the Brutes with Violent Fury, the Gore Gruntas with Violent Fury and your kruleboyz ball (snatchboss, swampcaller and boltboyz). The ardboyz are primarily for screening the boltboyz, snatchaboss and wizards. The Weirdnob is allways a certain threat with his mask, so thats nice as well.

If you get to +1/+1 hit/wound, all the venom buffs etc. this list is very scary with all the buffing and debuffing going on, but i can imagine it crumbles to alphastrikes, as you can only cover little territory with unleash hell boltboyz (but if they can unleash hell, they are a major threat). Without violent fury and the venom buffs, the damage output of this list is very lackluster. It really shines when getting to 20 Waaagh Points.

No MBMK is ofcourse sad, but i allways use him way to aggressive for BW lists, so skipping him was no big deal for me in BW.

Another issue are command points - you need reposition and unleash hell, but also inspiring presence for your brutes and all out defence. 

Do you guys use the Ere we go Heroic action? Its easy on the first turn (but also gives just one point), but do you use it on the 2+ turn? I cant justify using the hereoic action as command points or finest hour are just to good in this list imo.

Whats your oppinion on the list? Anything you miss? 

[Smash]

On 5/2/2022 at 10:27 AM, DerZauberer said:

Whats your oppinion on the list? Anything you miss? 

I also like running big waagh lists, but we have a few differences. So I only run a mirebrute instead of your three kruelboyz heroes. And have more MSU boltboyz and ardboyz instead. I realy value the screens when I am waiting to get my waaagh points going. 

How much value do you get from your swampcalla? To me having more boltboyz in msu without buffs seem better than investing in the shaman. 

And is gobsprak good enough?