AoS3- Big Waaagh!

[wolyhammer]

Any thoughts on including Kragnos in a Big Waagh list? I'm starting from a Kruleboyz army and was looking to get the Ironjawz start collecting box next. With Kragnos's charge boost would Gore Gruntas be the way to go?

[Squark]

Everything you get in the SC box should come in handy for a Big Waagh like what you want; The Aardboyz provide a cheap battleline to save points for Kragnos, Boltboyz, and the pigs, the Warchanter is critical for those 2 Waagh points and the damage buff, and thw pigs have -2 rend spears you can make 2 damage via said warchanter.

 

In practice I think a lot of Big Waaghs will end up being Ironjawz focused- not just because they're currently the strongest warclan, but because the bonuses for running a Big Waagh encourage you to run straight at the enemy- Which is Ironjawz specialty.

Edited December 29, 2021 by Squark

[DerZauberer]

So i'm back at figuring out Big Waaagh! in the new book and i'm trying out some lists after playing mainly Ironjawz which - to be fair - are quite straight forward. Next weekend i'm trying this BW list out for example:

Quote

Allegiance: Big Waaagh!

Leaders
Gobsprakk, The Mouth of Mork (300)
Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (480)
Wurrgog Prophet (150)
Orruk Warchanter (115)
Orruk Warchanter (115)
Swampcalla Shaman with Pot-grot (105)

Battleline
5 x Orruk Ardboys (85)
5 x Orruk Ardboys (85)
10 x Orruk Brutes (320)

Units
6 x Man-skewer Boltboyz (240)

Total: 1995 / 2000
Reinforced Units: 2 / 4
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 119
Drops: 10
 

I'm a big fan of gobsprakk and love the swamp lore. In my opinion having sneaky miasma and nasty hex at hand everytime i need it or debuffing with black pit or horde control with chocking mist is just great and he gives me the flexibility. I dont understand the hate he gets, he was great in my BW practice games yet. But to be fair, i'm in no overwhelmingly shooty meta, maybe thats why.  Would love to hear why you guys think gobby is bad.

Besides that MBMK is a must, warchantes are a must. Wurrgog is a fun piece which i don't dig that much for 150 points, but of course the BW points and the mask stare is great.

Besides that, a 10 man Brute unit for the second warchanter buff and two units of 5 ardboys for objectives. And last 6 Boltboyz with Swampcalla Poison for hero sniping or other threat removal which benefits greatly of gobbsprakks better unleash heall.

The only thing i see here is the low count of bodies - but on the other hand theres 4 threatining pieces which should be able to gold 2/3 of objectives mostly.

Artefacts and command traits im still unsure about, also i think BW needs the one-drop battalion so you can go second. Which do you prefer with BW? Low drops or more artefacts? Some artefact im missing here?

[Squark]

Gobsprakk has a couple of issues; He's very vulnerable to being oincushioned by shooting, his casting is unreliable because he has no bonus to cast and can't get Master of Magic, and he has no bonus to dispel other than a once per game RNG effect, so his main selling point is countered by super casters like Nagash, Teclis, and their ilk.

In a metagame that isn't heavy on Ranged Attacks and Godhammer, he's probably servicable. But that is the "default" metagame at the moment, so he suffers.

[Ravinsild]

Army Faction: Orruk Warclans
    - Army Type: Big Waaagh!
    - Grand Strategy: Show ’Em Who’s Boss!
    - Triumps: Show ’Em Who’s Boss!

LEADER

Megaboss on Maw-krusha (480)**
    - General
    - Command Traits: Mega Bossy
    - Boss Choppa and Rip-toof Fist
    - Artefacts: Armour of Gork
    - Mount Traits: Fast ’Un

Orruk Warchanter (115)**

Orruk Warchanter (115)**

Wurrgog Prophet (150)**
    - Artefacts: Glowin’ Tattooz
    - Spells: Gorkamorka’s War Cry

BATTLELINE

Orruk Brutes (160)*
    - Brute Choppas,Boss Klaw & Brute Smasha

1 x Orruk Ardboys (170)*

1 x Orruk Ardboys (170)*

OTHER

1 x Man-skewer Boltboyz (240)

Orruk Gore-gruntas (170)*
    - Jagged Gore-hacka

Orruk Gore-gruntas (170)*
    - Jagged Gore-hacka

CORE BATTALIONS:

*Ironjawz Fist

**Command Entourage

TOTAL POINTS: (1940/2000)

Created with Warhammer Age of Sigmar: The App
 

Can I get any advice with my list? I don’t actually own any Kruleboyz at all I just threw them in because my old list seems to be out of fashion from AoS 2.0 

My AoS 2.0 list is exactly like this except it had 30 ArdBoyz and 0 brutes and I had 160 points in Ironfist Battalion and 80 points into Chronomatic Cogs. However Battalions are totally different now adays it seems like and Chronomatic seem much worse so I just put some points into Kruleboyz but I don’t even know how much money those kits are in real life. Otherwise I changed out 10 ArdBoyz for 5 Brutes because I heard ArdBoyz were worse and Brutes are good these days but I spent a lot of time painting my Ardboyz so I wanted to use at least some. 
 

Thoughts or opinions? If I wanted to change this into a pure Ironjawz list just to experiment between the two factions do y’all have any recommendations? My guys are painted all red for Bloodtoofs. 

[Squark]

6 Boltboyz for a reinforced unit like the one you have is $90 USD by GW pricing, unfortunately. They're pretty expensive.

 

Aardboyz are primarily a screening unit- With no rend or mortal wound output, they struggle against a meta where you have to plan to fight vs. A 3+ save. They're also a tad awkward in large units because units of 6+ need to be organized into 2 ranks, and with their 1" melee and 32 mm base the second rank can't fight unless you're surrounded (in which case your screen has faild at its job because things are now on the wrong side). That being said, I wouldn't call them bad- I'd gladly pay 5 points to upgrade my hobgrot screens to a 4+ save if I could in Kruleboyz.

 

Going pure Ironjawz isn't a bad idea- Bloodtoofs get Gore-Gruntaz as battleline, which is very handy. The new Ironjawz Waagh! Is also very good; -3 rend Jagged Gore-Hackas is terrifying

[Ravinsild]

2 hours ago, Squark said:

6 Boltboyz for a reinforced unit like the one you have is $90 USD by GW pricing, unfortunately. They're pretty expensive.

 

Aardboyz are primarily a screening unit- With no rend or mortal wound output, they struggle against a meta where you have to plan to fight vs. A 3+ save. They're also a tad awkward in large units because units of 6+ need to be organized into 2 ranks, and with their 1" melee and 32 mm base the second rank can't fight unless you're surrounded (in which case your screen has faild at its job because things are now on the wrong side). That being said, I wouldn't call them bad- I'd gladly pay 5 points to upgrade my hobgrot screens to a 4+ save if I could in Kruleboyz.

 

Going pure Ironjawz isn't a bad idea- Bloodtoofs get Gore-Gruntaz as battleline, which is very handy. The new Ironjawz Waagh! Is also very good; -3 rend Jagged Gore-Hackas is terrifying

So my list isn’t too bad all things considered? I could get those Kruleboyz shooters but if I didn’t what would you recommend? More Brutes or Gore-Gruntas? 

[Aakkxxzz]

Been building and testing Big Waagh lists, and am so surprised at how little I see the Breaka-boss on Troggoth getting mentioned or used. 

Their damage output is insane, especially considering how cheap they are. Better damage potential than anything Ironjaws/Kruelboyz has outside of the Maw-Krusha. 

In an army that's better suited for castling/counterstrikes than alpha strikes, why aren't more people using them? 

What am I missing? 

[Gitzdee]

I bought one and want to try it out some time. I like the potential it has as a distraction piece and potential hammer. 

[Keilerei]

6 hours ago, Aakkxxzz said:

Been building and testing Big Waagh lists, and am so surprised at how little I see the Breaka-boss on Troggoth getting mentioned or used. 

Their damage output is insane, especially considering how cheap they are. Better damage potential than anything Ironjaws/Kruelboyz has outside of the Maw-Krusha. 

In an army that's better suited for castling/counterstrikes than alpha strikes, why aren't more people using them? 

What am I missing? 

He does have a lot of potential, but then again, its only potentially for him to spike. I personally think he can be quite good in Big Waaagh, especially if he benefits from the +1 to hit/+1 to wound and beeing teleported with Great Green Hand of Gork to counter his slow movement, also benefitting from +1 to charge might get him where he hurts. 

But he mainly does inflict fear in your opponent, use it to your advantage, he is just 180 points.

[Tomplex]

I think the issue that puts me off both the breakaboss and the gnashtoof is that they're neither monsters nor eligible for sub commander status which just leaves them a little fiddly to slot into my list building. 

[broche]

16 hours ago, Aakkxxzz said:

Been building and testing Big Waagh lists, and am so surprised at how little I see the Breaka-boss on Troggoth getting mentioned or used. 

It's surely not a bad model and worth trying. I think there might just be a bias toward model available to people. Since a lot of people already have Ironjawz / bonesplitterz model they want to used it's reflected in the list. I suspect as time goes you might see more and more kruelboyz into big waaagh

[Malakree]

On 1/12/2022 at 11:30 PM, broche said:

It's surely not a bad model and worth trying. I think there might just be a bias toward model available to people. Since a lot of people already have Ironjawz / bonesplitterz model they want to used it's reflected in the list. I suspect as time goes you might see more and more kruelboyz into big waaagh

My personal feeling is that the only reason to go Big Waaagh right now is you want to run Gobsprakk as it's a massive buff to him. There is some arguments to be made about using Ardboys as a screen for your boltboyz but I suspect you'd better off just taking Big Yellers with Hobgrots.

The first list I want to build towards once my stuff comes out of storage is this.

Spoiler

Allegiance: Big Waaagh!
- Grand Strategy:
- Triumphs:

Leaders
Wurrgog Prophet (150)
- General
- Artefact: Glowin' Tattooz
- Lore of the Savage Beast: Gorkamorka's War Cry
- Universal Spell Lore: Levitate
Gobsprakk, The Mouth of Mork (280)
Wardokk (80)
- Universal Spell Lore: Ghost-mist
- Lore of the Savage Beast: Gorkamorka's War Cry
Orruk Warchanter (115)
Orruk Warchanter (115)
- Artefact: Arcane Tome (Universal Artefact)
- Lore of the Weird: Da Great Big Green Hand of Gork
- Lore of the Weird: Bash 'Em Ladz
Orruk Weirdnob Shaman (90)
- Lore of the Weird: Da Great Big Green Hand of Gork
- Lore of the Weird: Foot of Gork

Battleline
10 x Orruk Brutes (320)***
- Reinforced x 1
10 x Orruk Brutes (320)***
- Reinforced x 1
10 x Gutrippaz (180)***
5 x Orruk Ardboys (85)*
5 x Orruk Ardboys (85)*
5 x Orruk Ardboys (85)*
5 x Orruk Ardboys (85)*

Core Battalions
*Warlord
**Warlord
***Hunters of the Heartlands

Additional Enhancements
Spell
Artefact

Total: 1990 / 2000
Reinforced Units: 2 / 4
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 164
Drops: 13

Mainly because I have almost all of it already painted. Only thing I would need is to finish 10 Brutes (next job) then get/paint Gobsprakk himself.

EDIT: 

On 1/12/2022 at 6:57 AM, Aakkxxzz said:

Been building and testing Big Waagh lists, and am so surprised at how little I see the Breaka-boss on Troggoth getting mentioned or used. 

Their damage output is insane, especially considering how cheap they are. Better damage potential than anything Ironjaws/Kruelboyz has outside of the Maw-Krusha. 

In an army that's better suited for castling/counterstrikes than alpha strikes, why aren't more people using them? 

What am I missing? 

I kinda agree with the lack of models bit. Most people are going to be building up towards Big Waaagh lists and I'm not sure the Breaka-Boss is all that great in Kruelboyz. +1/+1 on the other hand makes them pretty terrifying, even at just 6 attacks 2+/2+/-2/3 is solid levels of damage for 180, I wonder how it compares to brutes...

Edited January 22, 2022 by Malakree

[Jabbuk]

Been thinking about going Big Waaagh! For a while and I love you guys' lists in here. Thanks for sharing. Is it me or Arrowboys are absolutely excellent screens that can plink off wounds on a Monster? I mean they are 145pts for 10, that's about 70pts per wounds, which makes them cheaper than Hobgrot Slittaz. 

I'll be honest though and say that I just want to find a purpose for them because I love their model and I painted them pretty good. I used to use them in BW in 2.0 along with an IJ force but BS has been nerfed so much, that it's hard to justify them. I have a block of 20 and I feel like they could be an excellent screen. What do you guys think?

[Orkmann]

11 hours ago, Jabbuk said:

Been thinking about going Big Waaagh! For a while and I love you guys' lists in here. Thanks for sharing. Is it me or Arrowboys are absolutely excellent screens that can plink off wounds on a Monster? I mean they are 145pts for 10, that's about 70pts per wounds, which makes them cheaper than Hobgrot Slittaz. 

I'll be honest though and say that I just want to find a purpose for them because I love their model and I painted them pretty good. I used to use them in BW in 2.0 along with an IJ force but BS has been nerfed so much, that it's hard to justify them. I have a block of 20 and I feel like they could be an excellent screen. What do you guys think?

I think they are a bit expensive for screening and due to coherency they cant cover a huge area anyway. But I believe BSP is not that bad as the initial reviews suggested, even Bonegrinz can have game, with Kraggy or a gargant merc.

[broche]

18 hours ago, Jabbuk said:

Arrowboys are absolutely excellent screens that can plink off wounds on a Monster? I mean they are 145pts for 10, that's about 70pts per wounds, which makes them cheaper than Hobgrot Slittaz. 

Not necessary a bid idea. However when talking about "screen" the total unit cost is important as the point is usually to hold big hitter (Kragnos , Fulmi ect.) with minimal investment as they will usually overkill them. Shooting for 10 arrowboys is quite negligeable unfortunatly. I think you would get much more value from 5 ardboys, that can function both as screen early game or decent hitter late game in BW, and they can double move with Mighty Destroyer. Arrowboys are still better with Bonegrinz in bg block. Bonesplitterz doesn't fit very well in Big waaagh except of course for Wurgog and big stabbas (other units often have redundancy on to hit / to wound wich is not so great for big waaagh)

[Jabbuk]

Allegiance: Big Waaagh!
- Grand Strategy:
- Triumphs:
Gobsprakk, The Mouth of Mork (280)
Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (480)
- Boss Gore-hacka and Choppa
Orruk Warchanter (115)
Wurrgog Prophet (150)
Swampcalla Shaman with Pot-grot (105)
10 x Orruk Brutes (320)
- Pair of Brute Choppas
- Reinforced x 1
5 x Orruk Ardboys (85)
5 x Orruk Ardboys (85)
6 x Man-skewer Boltboyz (240)
- Reinforced x 1
Beast-skewer Killbow (130)

Total: 1990 / 2000
Reinforced Units: 2 / 4
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 118
Drops: 10
 

So I got this BW list here that kind of encompasses a lot of the stuff I wanna play and I feel like it's pretty strong. There's speed and power with MK, there's power with Brutes, mortal wounds with Boltboyz, Wurgogg and Killbow, and "some" screens with 2x5 ardboys, and a real useful spell lore. I also got 2 monsters. 

I like it but I feel a little light on the bodies. What do you guys think?

[PlasticCraic]

@Malakree @Jabbuk can I ask why you like Gobby so much in Big Waaagh?

Is it purely for the +1 to cast, unbind and dispell?  Or is there more to it than that?

[Jabbuk]

10 hours ago, PlasticCraic said:

@Malakree @Jabbuk can I ask why you like Gobby so much in Big Waaagh?

Is it purely for the +1 to cast, unbind and dispell?  Or is there more to it than that?

To me it's just an excuse to play him. Like Malakree said earlier, it fits him well because of the bonus to cast. In Kruleboyz he becomes the center of attention and isn't durable enough. In BW, I can put some Ironjawz with him and it evens out the threats. The opponent needs to make some choices. I dunno, really, that's my justification but I could be wrong. I just love the model and I'm trying to find a way to play it. Do you have another opinion?

[Malakree]

15 hours ago, PlasticCraic said:

@Malakree @Jabbuk can I ask why you like Gobby so much in Big Waaagh?

Is it purely for the +1 to cast, unbind and dispell?  Or is there more to it than that?

For me yes. That +1 to cast takes him from being a bit meh to being an amazing wizard for his points.

All of the swamp lore spells are amazing but cast on a 7/8, the +1 to cast makes them way more reliable. while the +1 to unbind makes the mortals that much more of a threat in a meta which has a lot of wizards. He comes with a 6+ ward, is ok in melee and has the mandrake for times when you really need a spell not to go off. 

I'm just getting my painting stuff setup after moving last November. need to finish my dominion stuff then get him but this is what I'm wanting to build towards.

Spoiler

Allegiance: Big Waaagh!
- Grand Strategy:
- Triumphs:

Leaders
Orruk Warchanter (115)
- General
- Command Trait: Master of Magic
- Artefact: Arcane Tome (Universal Artefact)
- Warbeat: Get 'Em Beat
Gordrakk the Fist of Gork (540)
Orruk Warchanter (115)
Wurrgog Prophet (150)
- Artefact: Glowin' Tattooz
- Lore of the Savage Beast: Gorkamorka's War Cry
Gobsprakk, The Mouth of Mork (280)
Swampcalla Shaman with Pot-grot (105)

Battleline
10 x Orruk Brutes (320)
- Pair of Brute Choppas
- Reinforced x 1
5 x Orruk Ardboys (85)
5 x Orruk Ardboys (85)
5 x Orruk Ardboys (85)

Units
3 x Man-skewer Boltboyz (120)

Core Battalions
*Warlord
**Warlord

Additional Enhancements
Artefact
Spell

Total: 2000 / 2000
Reinforced Units: 1 / 4
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 125
Drops: 11

A bit jank but honestly I really don't like the current Ironjawz playstyle, I find it to be lacking in depth strategically/tactically and this lets me use Big G aswell.

[broche]

I don't dislike Gobspark ,never tried it but he sure benefit from the big waaagh with the cast/dispel bonus and the late game +1/+1. He can chip off wound off wizard and then you can finish them off with some shooting which sound nice. However I feel like both list above are a bit heros heavy. I would probably cut on the wurgog (less waaagh pts meh) or swampcalla to include him (cutting swampcalla make boltboyz much less apealing on the other hand). 

In my mind Big Waaagh is really an alternate less agressive ironjaw style of play. You want to keep as much model as possible. once you reach R3 you should have +1/+1. Maw Krusha is really important to spam the +1 save + inspiring presence on 3 units, and also mid-late game Rally (here Godrack can be interesting cause he can target the boltboyz as well and act as an extra general if you loose the first). 

I think Big Waaagh! should really keep an heavy Ironjawz core, then pick up some Kruleboyz / Bonesplitterz to fit your meta or play style.

[PlasticCraic]

8 hours ago, Jabbuk said:

I just love the model and I'm trying to find a way to play it. Do you have another opinion?

Nah that's exactly where I'm at with him, I like the model and I want to play him, if I can find a list I'm happy with.  I personally find that any list I put him in looks really lightweight and about one hammer unit short, which isn't so much him about him being overcosted as the need to take a lot of other expensive pieces in any army he goes in.  Another issue I have is that I love his rerollable Redeploy, but in Big Waaagh you're probably not running that many Kruleboyz units.  I'd have loved that to be army wide, like Gordrakk and Kragnos, to give him a real home in Big Waaagh which fits the fluff.

So I guess the TLDR is that I'm currently a bit stumped on how best to use him, but I'll be keeping a close eye on what you guys come up with!

Edited March 9, 2022 by PlasticCraic

[NauticalSoup]

I think the cost is less of an issue for gobby than his sort of unfocused warscroll that doesn't add what you're generally looking for in Warclans/Kruleboyz list. You have a very average double casting wizard with a mix of utility mechanics and adequate if unremarkable combat ability. He may not be bad but he doesn't enjoy a warscroll that really drives you to want him in a list.

[broche]

Overall Kruleboyz just seem like a bad fit for Big Waaagh. Venom weapon really just doesn't mix well with big waagh bonus (to hit bonus are useless when you rol 5 or 6, and to wound bonus are irrelevant when you're doing lot's of MW). 

kind of same story for Bonesplitters, as the 6++ ward is not really the ability you want to have at all cost (the pre-game move and 4++ waaagh) and without allegeance you're stuck with a bad battleline choice (spearman), and charging boar already have a built-in +1/+1. The best BS units in big waaagh would be morboys and big stabbas but ardboys just seem already superior to morboys and fill your battleline spot, and with Brutes / Pig having access to rend 2, big stabbas are not that necessary (and you could already splash a unit or 2 anwyay)

[Tomplex]

9 minutes ago, broche said:

Overall Kruleboyz just seem like a bad fit for Big Waaagh. Venom weapon really just doesn't mix well with big waagh bonus (to hit bonus are useless when you rol 5 or 6, and to wound bonus are irrelevant when you're doing lot's of MW). 

kind of same story for Bonesplitters, as the 6++ ward is not really the ability you want to have at all cost (the pre-game move and 4++ waaagh) and without allegeance you're stuck with a bad battleline choice (spearman), and charging boar already have a built-in +1/+1. The best BS units in big waaagh would be morboys and big stabbas but ardboys just seem already superior to morboys and fill your battleline spot, and with Brutes / Pig having access to rend 2, big stabbas are not that necessary (and you could already splash a unit or 2 anwyay)

You give up a lot of good allegiance abilities to play big waaagh,  and I feel like Kruleboyz give up less to join big waaagh then the other warclans do. Dirty tricks that might not work anyway? A subfaction choice whose primary draw is freeing you from the Gutrippaz tax? Meh. Big waaagh also frees you from the Gutrippaz tax, in a way.

 

Kruleboyz are also the only clan that seems suited to drawing out a game long enough to benefit from the waaagh table. 

 

Ironjawz and bonesplitterz have subfaction and allegiance abilities that are too good to give up.