New Games Workshop NDA for influencers UPDATE 2: The document appears to be real.

[yukishiro1]

3 minutes ago, CommissarRotke said:

considering some of the mistakes (AND TYPOS) in the new Stormcast battletome, I'm not even surprised... Don't take typos as singular proof that something is fake, IMHO. Even outside GW you'll see typos in press releases or published documents.

Oh, for sure.  It was their arguments for why it couldn't be real, not mine. I think we can all cite many examples of GW's sloppy drafting. You would like to think it didn't extend to their legal department, but it doesn't surprise me that it does. 

Arch is a ****** and I wouldn't trust his take on anything, but the stuff he posted there is legit (as far as I know, anyway). If you want to see NQA admitting it's real and that she was wrong about it being fake, it's there at 11:32. 

Edited September 27, 2021 by yukishiro1

[Kodos der Henker]

3 minutes ago, CommissarRotke said:

considering some of the mistakes (AND TYPOS) in the new Stormcast battletome, I'm not even surprised... Don't take typos as singular proof that something is fake, IMHO. Even outside GW you'll see typos in press releases or published documents.

well, in the very past it was the opposite, if a rumour/leak/picture of text not having any typos or mistakes, it was seen as fake and not from GW

[ArkanautDadmiral]

11 minutes ago, GrogTheGrognard said:

The only difference I can see is the one sent to NQA had the person's real name as they had signed the NDA. It still has the fact that the NDA is confidential information and therefore illegal to share in any form without prior GW written consent. Still has the odd definition of restricted customer that included anyone who was a client employee or in the habit of dealing with GW. It has the weird noncompete clauses from the original. Also the indemnity clause from the original as well.

 

If you want to find the screenshots of the doxing and other events I found a link to them on reddit which is also where I found people trying to get NQA Pateron removed (which is extremely terrible behavior and I whole heartedly condemn). It seems like from the screenshots I saw Goobertown Hobbies may have been pushing NQA buttons to the point she doxed the guy (still doesn't excuse what she did as doxing is a horrible thing).

 

On the point of assuming it's real. I say the next action to take depends on GW's action. If GW decides to go after the whistleblower I would say to help the whistleblower's legal defense through crowdfunding and let GW know that it is not okay to go after whistleblowers like that. If GW instead comes out and admits the NDA is real, but they are not going to try and enforce it and will change the NDA to be much better I would say to keep a close eye on GW and maybe even ask to see what this new NDA would look like just to make sure they aren't trying to pull a fast one of admitting they will change and then doing nothing to actually change the NDA.

I don’t get why the guy signed it if he he could tell it was sketchy enough to warrant sending to other youtubers?

It’d be great to hear his side of it, there’s been so many odd actions in all this.

If I received legal paperwork I thought was in bad practice, I definitely wouldn’t sign it. Maybe he just wanted Miscast to give it a once over and didn’t expect him at all to make it public?

The whole thing is so messy for me but I’m convinced it’s likely real.

I can’t see GW coming out and making a statement about it, unfortunately. So now it’s a waiting game to see what happens to the guy I suppose.

[sandlemad]

That video is indeed by Arch, genuine far right white supremacist and overall garbage person. He has his own history with NornQueenAlexis in that she appeared on his podcast - she has her own tendencies that way herself - but then later denounced him as too extreme after all the racism and paedophilia came out from his discord. 

What that means is that you are probably better off just ignoring anything he says in any context as it’s in his interest to stir things up in general; he hates her and he hates GW, both for betraying him as he sees it. I would hope there’s a better summary out there than this. He’s fundamentally untrustworthy and any ‘broken clock’ moments are going to be in a mass of other trash.

Edited September 27, 2021 by sandlemad

[ArkanautDadmiral]

5 minutes ago, yukishiro1 said:

Oh, for sure.  It was their arguments for why it couldn't be real, not mine. I think we can all cite many examples of GW's sloppy drafting. You would like to think it didn't extend to their legal department, but it doesn't surprise me that it does. 

Arch is a ****** and I wouldn't trust his take on anything, but the stuff he posted there is legit (as far as I know, anyway). If you want to see NQA admitting it's real and that she was wrong about it being fake, it's there at 11:32. 

I don’t fancy giving him extra views and ad revenue by watching his stuff.

[Kodos der Henker]

1 minute ago, sandlemad said:

I would hope there’s a better summary out there than thi

I haven't found yet one as non covers what happend between NQA and Goobertown Hobbies (with blackout the name of the whistle-blower/leaker)

[yukishiro1]

15 minutes ago, ArkanautDadmiral said:

I don’t get why the guy signed it if he he could tell it was sketchy enough to warrant sending to other youtubers?

It’d be great to hear his side of it, there’s been so many odd actions in all this.

If I received legal paperwork I thought was in bad practice, I definitely wouldn’t sign it. Maybe he just wanted Miscast to give it a once over and didn’t expect him at all to make it public?

People sign things all the time without paying much attention to them, sadly. It's also possible - and I hope for his sake this is the case - that although he signed it, he didn't send it back to them before checking in with Miscast, and so maybe he's not in any legal trouble now if he just rips up the document (though obviously he'll get put on GW's red list of people not to do anything with in the future). 

[Nos]

11 minutes ago, Sleboda said:

Genuinely curious - who?

I get that on a personal opinion level,  we might lie this or that model from Random Company better than X model from GW, but I get the vibe from your comment that you believe there are many ("ample") companies making ranges of models of equal quality for much cheaper ("far less") than GW.

Who are these companies?  I would like to check them out to see if they can offer the full hobby experience, at scale, that GW does at a fraction of the cost. 

Of course they can't provide the experience GW can at scale at a fraction of the cost. But that's not what I said.

If you want to refer what I  actually said, here is an example of the quality vs cost below. Designed on artwork by Adrian Smith and production overseen by Mike McVey. I have them, they make GW sculpts feel like Duplo, the details on them are incredible. The Gods are about 60mm tall, the smaller guys about 32. I got about 70 miniatures of that quality and an entire boardgame at less than £2 per model. 

Granted they are from a boardgame, but their quality equals or surpasses GW for an astonishing reduction in cost. 

Highland Miniatures, Lost Kingdom, One Page Rules, Bushido, most things from Creature Caster and a Song if Ice and Fire are all examples of sculpts that would drive GW fans wild if they released something similar into their ranges. Many of them less than half GW price. 

It's a culture shift. 3D designs are getting better every day and the fact is the production cost you pay for them is miniscule whether you print them yourself or get them done by someone else. I bought this giant below for £15. That's less than an Underworlds warband. 

[The Red King]

1 hour ago, ArkanautDadmiral said:

Isn’t this ArchWarhammer? As in the hard right guy who’s said a bunch of racist and derogatory stuff? If so I don’t care about his opinion on it.

I also don't anything to do with Arch no matter how I feel on this matter.

[Gareth 🍄]

[Gareth 🍄]

 

[yukishiro1]

That was borderline incomprehensible. I certainly don't see anything in there approaching any sort of fact-based assertion, much less proof, that the NDA in question is fake.

 

Unless dramatic sighs count as proof, then it's established beyond a shadow of a doubt. 

Edited September 27, 2021 by yukishiro1

[Gareth 🍄]

Thought a bit more YouTuber drama would be right up this thread's street, lol.

[amysrevenge]

My 10 year old daughter is SUPER in to behind the scenes YouTuber drama.  I get plenty of exactly this sort of thing from her.  Hahahaha

[Gareth 🍄]

For me, having found out the source of the NDA (the person Norn Queen Alexis revealed on Twitter), I believe it's real. They don't seem like an untrustworthy source, to be fair. Not the kind you'd associate with GW drama. I would guess that this NDA hasn't been sent to everyone though, which could be why some YouTubers who've also signed NDAs think it's fake.

Edited September 28, 2021 by Gareth 🍄

[Chikout]

I'm still very dubious of the whole thing. The other day I got an email from my dad asking for money. Turns out it wasn't from my dad. It not that much of a stretch to imagine that a suitably malicious person willing to make a fake NDA, would take it a step further and send it to people while  pretending to be GW. 

If we assume it's real, then the best course of action is for any person who receives it to refuse to sign. YouTubers aren't powerless in this situation. 

[Sleboda]

7 hours ago, Nos said:

If you want to refer what I  actually said, here is an example of the quality vs cost below. Designed on artwork by Adrian Smith and production overseen by Mike McVey. I have them, they make GW sculpts feel like Duplo, the details on them are incredible. The Gods are about 60mm tall, the smaller guys about 32. I got about 70 miniatures of that quality and an entire boardgame at less than £2 per model. 

Granted they are from a boardgame, but their quality equals or surpasses GW for an astonishing reduction in cost. 

Highland Miniatures, Lost Kingdom, One Page Rules, Bushido, most things from Creature Caster and a Song if Ice and Fire are all examples of sculpts that would drive GW fans wild if they released something similar into their ranges. Many of them less than half GW price. 

It's a culture shift. 3D designs are getting better every day

Interesting.

I either own or have seen most of those. I disagree that their quality is the same as GW, but that's an opinion I suppose.

As to 3D stuff ... meh. It's got decades to go before it can offer what is available in injection today.

[dirkdragonslayer]

I was on the fence, but this has devolved into youtuber drama of the worst degree, and with Arch and NQA throwing themselves into the center it's making me skeptical of it's validity. The channels of those two thrive off of fake outrage and hobby drama, getting their base all riled up over nothing.

Maybe it's real, but I don't want to be trusting anything that comes out of Arch. I still remember him using Warhammer 40k lore to platform a Swedish white nationalist, or his failed politics channel.

I am going to wait until someone more reliable has something substantial to show.

[Kodos der Henker]

Why I think it is legit are the different ways people are playing it down

First group argues that this is standard and that they have signed similar stuff and/or there is nothing special written there. It is just armchair lawyers who want to hate GW who think it is bad

Second group says this is fake

But why would someone fake a "standard" NDA? So the first group has no clue what they are talking about and it is so bad that the second group thinks it must be a fake.

 

For now, it might be real and be a warning for those who are new and might don't know how restricted this for not signing anything without double checking it to avoid problems

[zilberfrid]

I hope the doxxing was unintended, using the unedited document proving the point of the whistleblower in a clumsy manner. 

I would like to know who it is so I can subscribe to their stuff, but will have to look that up seperately.

For sculpts with better quality: It depends on faction equivalents. Warlord's Landsknechts are much higher quality than GW's crossbowmen and guard, and on par with their greatswords. I don't think something like Nighthaunt have an equivalent.

Frostgrave may be a bit less detailed, but their design of faces is much better, and not just young caucasian. Also have many options, something less and less common with GW.

Kimera's sculpts are beatiful. 1-9 200 mm for busts or 1:24 75mm for models, so while useful for painting, not for gaming. This also makes comparison hard. Certainly cheaper than equivalent sized GW

As for quality of prints, they do rival injection molding at high quality settings (though this takes ages). Even my 2 year old model does. Cleanup is less pleasant, but about as much work as cleanup from injection molding.

[sandlemad]

I don’t think Arch weighing in on the matter has any relevance to the question of the NDA’s validity, even given that he’s deliberately seeking to muddy the waters. He’s just looking for a way to claw back relevance and play into his own image of himself as the grand manipulator. 

You can (and should) safely ignore him without throwing your hands up at the whole affair.

RE: non-GW sculpts, there’s been good mentions already but I have to say that even moderately entry-level Gundam kits from ten years ago are leaps and bounds beyond the best of what GW can put out in terms of plastic production. Definitely comparing apples with oranges and prioritising one technical aspect over everything else that goes into a plastic miniature kit but I was truly shocked by how big the gulf is when I picked up a gunpla box over lockdown.

Edited September 28, 2021 by sandlemad

[RuneBrush]

3 hours ago, Kodos der Henker said:

But why would someone fake a "standard" NDA? So the first group has no clue what they are talking about and it is so bad that the second group thinks it must be a fake.

Because there are people out there that thrive on controversy and let's be honest fake or not, this document has certainly caused quite a bit 😉

[Kodos der Henker]

I know why I usually stay away from the 40k/Warhammer communities on Reddit (and FB in general) but come along such things by trying to dig out some facts (hence why I found Archs video)

But fighting people on how stupid they must be for not realising that this is the industry standard in one thread while on the other fighting people on how stupid they are for not realising that this must be fake to make GW look evil

Both defending GW with a negative attitude towards the customer/community but at the same time the more of those controversy comes up, the more legit the document looks (as those vocal group fight and cancel each other, either it is standard and there is nothing wrong with GW or fake and there is nothing wong with GW while the option that there is something wrong stays as the calm 3rd "person" in the room)

And from the past, GW is that stupid to send the wrong file out to sign and a 3rd party got the document meant for internals and not some evil GW conspiracy that this is intended to be the new NDA for reviews to shut down bad ones thru the backdoor (as no business without permission can get people into not being negative to make sure to get that permission)

[Sarouan]

*shrugs*

Still no answer from GW's customer service, anyway. Don't seem to have anything else out there as well, we're still arguing about the "leaked" document. We still don't know what is true and what is fake here.

At least, I guess it seems NQA's twitter account was simply removed by herself, she wasn't banned.

Also, if the screenshots from that Arch guy's videos aren't fake...I can understand why Goobertown quickly make that announcement, because yeah it totally looks like it was him who harassed NQA to take the "real document" just so that he could have the last word.

And really, the source is asking people "not to share it or show my name, because I don't want to ruin my relationship with GW" ? By "leaking" a NDA contract with them which is already telling "yeah I'm not trustworthy at all as a business partner"...?

This whole case really sounds like kindergarden's level.

...

Better not to pay anymore attention to it. Whatever truth there is, it's just not worth it.
 

Edited September 28, 2021 by Sarouan

[Sleboda]

10 hours ago, zilberfrid said:

As for quality of prints, they do rival injection molding at high quality settings (though this takes ages). Even my 2 year old model does. Cleanup is less pleasant, but about as much work as cleanup from injection molding.

Maybe I haven't seen the right models, but so far not a single print I've seen didn't have striations, and that's a deal breaker for me.