Points to cost ratio per army?

[Gitzdee]

Hi all.

I am wondering what the points per "insert currency" ratio would be for all armies. Can any sources be found with information on this subject? My guess is that it'll be the most elite/ low model count army that will be most cost efficient but i could be wrong. Lets do some quick calculations.

The SoB are low model count but are around 350 euros for a mega gargant + 4 baby gargants gets around 1200 points. Ogor Mawtribes gets me a Stonehorn + 4x mournfang and 2x ironblaster for 165 euros and almost 1000 points. Bonesplitterz come in could buy me 40x savage orruks, 1x wurrgog, wardokk and big boss for 129 euros for 1000 points   That makes SoB twice the cost of the Ogors. The Bonesplitterz are cheapest while also having the highest model count of the 3. So less models isnt everything in this case. So what does this mean?

I dont want to count Start Collecting boxes because they are more an added bonus if i already want to buy the contents. They are often changed or removed from the store and limits what i want to buy. I also dont want to include boxed sets like dominion for sure because those are limited runs. Lets just count normal unit purchaces for now.

I think adding all units from an army and getting a point to cost ratio doesnt represent what an avarage army would look like. Some armies have loads of characters that i'll never all buy. But i think an army avarage is the closest i can get. 

How would u calculate the best point per "insert currency" ratio for an army? Help!

(I changed this post a bit because my english is really bad sometimes)

Edited September 15, 2021 by Iksdee

[Kadeton]

I'm not sure there's much reason to do this in the general case, trying to get some kind of "points to cost" ratio for an entire faction. The cost that's relevant is for building a specific army that you might actually put on the battlefield - there's no use in knowing that a faction has a super-cheap option if it's one that nobody actually wants to field.

I'd start by tracking down some lists for tournament-level armies that have been performing well, and costing those out. Or, if you're thinking more along casual play lines, just writing up some thematic army lists that you'd like to actually paint and play, and tally those. Personally I'd include any Start Collecting or other boxed sets if they get you to your army list at a cheaper price than buying the relevant units individually.

[Gitzdee]

4 minutes ago, Kadeton said:

I'm not sure there's much reason to do this in the general case, trying to get some kind of "points to cost" ratio for an entire faction. The cost that's relevant is for building a specific army that you might actually put on the battlefield - there's no use in knowing that a faction has a super-cheap option if it's one that nobody actually wants to field.

I'd start by tracking down some lists for tournament-level armies that have been performing well, and costing those out. Or, if you're thinking more along casual play lines, just writing up some thematic army lists that you'd like to actually paint and play, and tally those. Personally I'd include any Start Collecting or other boxed sets if they get you to your army list at a cheaper price than buying the relevant units individually.

That would be true if u are running a tournament list. I'm actually not interested in that part of the game. I am more a collector i guess thats plays a game of AoS or Warcry a few times a year. Also rules and faq updates can drastically change what would be a tournament list would cost for an army. Maybe an army average point to cost ratio would be the way to go.

[RuneBrush]

There's quite a few variables involved because army composition can vary a huge amount.  It's generally been accepted that the army with the lowest cost entry is Beastclaw Raiders because you only need to pick up a few start collecting boxes for it.  FEC is probably one of the next armies for the same reason.  Beyond that things tend to get a little more difficult because you gain less benefit from having multiples of the same unit.

I suppose the real question is are you looking for the most cost effective army to put on the tabletop, or are you doing this for some other reason?

[Gitzdee]

1 hour ago, RuneBrush said:

There's quite a few variables involved because army composition can vary a huge amount.  It's generally been accepted that the army with the lowest cost entry is Beastclaw Raiders because you only need to pick up a few start collecting boxes for it.  FEC is probably one of the next armies for the same reason.  Beyond that things tend to get a little more difficult because you gain less benefit from having multiples of the same unit.

I suppose the real question is are you looking for the most cost effective army to put on the tabletop, or are you doing this for some other reason?

I guess i'm just curious at this point. I started thinking about this when i started buying into 40k orks and noticed that i could buy 2 other armies by the time i get to 2000 points. Some armies are really more expensive than others. I guess i'm trying to figure out why and if its really true at all if calculated in a proper way.

Edit: I changed to first post a bit because my english is really bad

Edited September 15, 2021 by Iksdee

[Gitzdee]

Changed up my first post and added some examples.

[Kadeton]

1 hour ago, Iksdee said:

That would be true if u are running a tournament list. I'm actually not interested in that part of the game. I am more a collector i guess thats plays a game of AoS or Warcry a few times a year. Also rules and faq updates can drastically change what would be a tournament list would cost for an army. Maybe an army average point to cost ratio would be the way to go.

Yeah, that's fair enough. As I said, in that case, put together some army lists that you want to collect, and work out the cost of each. There's not much point working out which army is the cheapest on average (it's Beastclaw Raiders) unless it's an army you would actually buy for yourself.

For a (purely hypothetical) example, let's say that you work out that Seraphon have a low average cost. Great! You start thinking about what you'd like to run in Seraphon. The units you really like happen to be the ones with the worst cost-to-points ratio, and the cheap units that are bringing down the average are ones that you have no interest in. Doing all that work for the initial calculation didn't tell you anything useful at all, really - you needed to work out the cost of the army list you wanted, not the faction as a whole, to get a sense of what it would actually cost you to collect that faction.

[Gitzdee]

Found this on tournament lists but its a bit outdated. 

https://ageofminiatures.com/warhammer-army-cost/

It tells us that on average the cost would be £350 for 56 models.

When i have some spare time i'll try to make an average cost list for an army. I wonder if it gets close to this guys conclusion.

[Gitzdee]

Guess it will take a while to do this for all armies XD. Does anyone know a good Bonesplitterz tournament list so i can compare the 2?

I got these points from the generals handbook 2021 for now.
For the big stabbas i counted half a box because someone could build 2 big stabbas and 10 savage orruk from a box.

With the new points.

 

Edited September 15, 2021 by Iksdee

[micahaphone]

Last spring (pre 3.0 announcement) I was looking at a few different armies (seraphon, skaven, kharadron overlords), and to get a rough idea of cost I looked up a variety of tournament lists (not saying you have to play tournament style, just easiest way to find multiple example army lists), and I was surprised to see that every list, be it horde or elite, came out to somewhere between $450-550, which is about 350 pounds. So my little investigation of this from last spring roughly lines up with what you've found too.

[Charleston]

I belive that currently there is no better deal money-to-points-wise than the SCE part of Dominion. Even when you pay the full price for it it is whooping 1400 pts for ~150€ including a full rulebook and some Orruks you can sell off or use as basing material. We talk about solid 1400 points, not dead picks. 

[Lord Krungharr]

I will 2nd that emotion on the Dominion Stormcast grouping.  Except that Stormcast are punks and 2 Start Collecting Beastclaw Raiders is the much much much better option.

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

I did some calculations about this out of my own interest a while ago. I also tracked number of models because it allows you to get some more fun stats out of it: Cost to 2000 points, cost per model, models to 2000 points...

Not really much to add, though: On average, you will pay about the same for every army. Buying two Beast Claw start collecting boxes is the cheapest good army you can get. Nagash is the cheapest model in the game for his points that I looked at. For a while, the Necromancer had him beat, but with his recent point increases he's on the top now. The worst model/unit I found was the Gyrocopter, particularly in AoS 2 when a squad of 3 still got a horde discount.

[Gitzdee]

14 hours ago, Charleston said:

I belive that currently there is no better deal money-to-points-wise than the SCE part of Dominion. Even when you pay the full price for it it is whooping 1400 pts for ~150€ including a full rulebook and some Orruks you can sell off or use as basing material. We talk about solid 1400 points, not dead picks. 

 

6 hours ago, Lord Krungharr said:

I will 2nd that emotion on the Dominion Stormcast grouping.  Except that Stormcast are punks and 2 Start Collecting Beastclaw Raiders is the much much much better option.

Thanks for posting here but this isnt about getting the best deal available at the time  .

[Gitzdee]

2 minutes ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

I did some calculations about this out of my own interest a while ago. I also tracked number of models because it allows you to get some more fun stats out of it: Cost to 2000 points, cost per model, models to 2000 points...

Not really much to add, though: On average, you will pay about the same for every army. Buying two Beast Claw start collecting boxes is the cheapest good army you can get. Nagash is the cheapest model in the game for his points that I looked at. For a while, the Necromancer had him beat, but with his recent point increases he's on the top now. The worst model/unit I found was the Gyrocopter, particularly in AoS 2 when a squad of 3 still got a horde discount.

The more i look at that Beastclaw Raiders box the more i want to buy it. I guess i'm a sucker for Destruction models XD. Too bad they dont really ally well with Orruk warclans or Gitz.

And yes i'm starting to notice that overall the value of 2000p armies are around the same value on average. Seems like armies that summon a lot of units get a bit higher.

[Charleston]

8 hours ago, Iksdee said:

Thanks for posting here but this isnt about getting the best deal available at the time

Ok boy, now you have me triggered!

So, considering armies that can be build at a lower budget we should maybe have a first glance at thoose who bring a SC! box:

• Seraphon have access to SC! Skins and SC! Seraphon. Both are valid, bring together around 900-1000 points with some valid units but also some that are more meh (Warriors and Knights). Solid for the price point
• Gloomspite bring some Trogs and Squigs. Well, not the powerpicks but if you play GSG for power you are doing it wrong anyway. Comes at 380pts for a SC! Price. Considering GSG need tons of models and have rather pricey kits I suggest we stop talking about thoose lovely fun and great models at this point
• Daughters of Khaine...well, hard to say. The boy brings whopping 720pts when build the recommended way, but it does so with only 1 battleline. You still could go 3 SC! Boxes and play 3x5 sneks withs 3 Shrines and some support heroes but this would be really mediocre and you want to play Morathi anyway which brings you +100€. DoK are and will remain one of the more expensive forces. 
• S2D: Great box, neat start as it brings 2 Battlelines and a hero. You can easily expand from here and even consider a second box. If you want to go for the meta you propably will have some Varanguards and Archaon in the shopping cart which kills the "Cheap and solid army" deal. Upside is that Deamon Princes can be converted from anything which makes them cheap for a spammy despoilers list. 
• Hedonites: Many different and new kits, also only deamons in the SC! Box. This puts them in a rather higher entry cost, especially as you can count a great deamon in for sure as it is just an awesome sculpt, rising costs again. Meanwhile you can start Slaanesh for cheap considering 2nd market (I've seen really a lot of Slaanesh models offered there the last years, although this is very anechdotial)
• Beastclaws: Great SC! Box  with whooping 650-750 for a single box. Getting 2-3 will give you a 2000pts army which is ok to play casually but will become lackluster in meta games as mournfangs are...well, the name fits their position in the meta. At least with AOA they became better in 3.0. I highly recommend to build the rather unfavored Husskard on Stonehorn as his buff for Mournfangs makes sense when you are about to play 8-12 of them
• Flesheater: Beside BCR they are the other great "Just buy 2-3 SC! Boxes Dude" army. which is mainly due to their lackluster pool of units. You can build almost each.possible.model.the.army.has.access.to. Yes it is depressing but who cares when you have 3 giant bats that will eat the face off your opponents face Turn 1?
• Skaven: Well, Similar to GSG you will end up in an army focused around horde, with many different options that you will desire to play on the long term. At least heir great Deamon units are not so obligator as the 4 gods ones. SC! brings you solid 575 pts points of clan pestilence or 705 points when you go for the warp cannon and the bell. So theoretically you could start an Pestilence army with 1375 pts for 2 SC boxes which isn't so far away from BCR
• Kharadron: The SCE was trash until the Battletome update which made it ok. I cannot say much about it as I am not into Dwarfs
• SC! Greywater Fastness: I SAID I AM NOT INTO DWARFS!
• SC! Fyreslayers: GOD DAMMIT!
• SC! Sylvaneth: Well, the boy is okay but nothing to buy too often, although big trees are okay and bushes are nice for summoning. Still I have heard about a load of people really enjoying the Sylvaneth as modeling project because of their beautiful models
• Khorne Bloodbound: Well, it contains most of Khornes good buff heroes and some chaff reavers. Keep in mind you can't use 5 Bloodwarriors for matched play any longer but I can only recommend to use them with the bits of a Wrathmonger kit to build some Skullreapers for cheap. Considering how depressing it is to play Khorne right now I do not recommend to start the army right now. If masochism is your king feel free to visit the Slaanesh Thread....aehm I meant Khorne Thread!
• SC Stormcast was once with the Khorne part the AoS 1.0 Starterset. It comes at solid 675 points including Vandus Hammerhang who you can easily use as Celestial Lord on Dracoth. And this prior to the Battletome which will rise the points further up. The box also includes a awkward unit of understrength 3 retributors I didn't sum into the point value of the box. It is a solid start for a Redeemer/Palladin list but consider that you could just but more draconis knights instead.
• Khorne Deamon SC is nothing to write home about. 2/3s are dead picks and the remaining 1/3 are bloodletters who are not really a lovechild of the Khorne battletome. If you want to play Deamons you have to buy into 1-3 or more Bloodthirsters which are about 100€ for ~300pts. So no price for value here. But as Khorne does not mind where the blood comes from you could also play another army. He will be ok!
• IDK: Well, the Box is really okay but to be honest you could buy 2 boxes of Eels for the same price tag and Eels will be propably the thing you want to play anyway.
• Nurgle: I like this one actually. Both, Mortals and Deamons, look like solid picks. Of course you have the urge to get a Great Deamon to buff your little fellas but it is an awesome centerpiece and opposing to khorne you do not have to spam them. The Rotbringers Kits are great, have a lot of details and can be painted quite nice even by beginners.  
• Beasts of Chaos: While the army is not really high power it has many fans due to the Warhammer Fantasy feel. The SC! is a solid deal with ~450 pts and can be bought 2-3 times without many issues.
• SC! Ironjaws: Well, the main selling point for the box is that it is cheaper than buying the pigs on their own.
• SC! Anvilgard: Beside the Hydra Kit the Box is rather a dead pick. The Pirates do not see many play in Cities beside some fun narrative play or in combination with Anvilgards/HarKurons AcidSpray Spell. It brings you very few points and I really see many players want to replace thoose models in their lists fast.

I cannot find the Tzeentch Box on GW's store but I imagine it could be a solid starting point as well.

Well, beside the BCR and FEC SC! Box there are not really Armies that can be built from the box only. The general advice is to hop in if you find a faction you like to be included in one of the two-army deals. Also GW's Christmas Boxes are always a good deal and worth checking out, although they are limited. 

For other armies than can be build fast/with few kits I can recommend checking out Phoenix Temple in CoS (3 Phoenixes and 3 Units of Phoenix Guard should be a solid core) and also a Vampire-Centric SBGL List. 

[GrogTheGrognard]

Well one army I can say has some of the worst/best points to cost ratio is Disciples of Tzeentch horrors. A unit of splitting 10 pinks costs 215 points that could split into 20 blues and 20 brimstones which would require three boxes. 1 box for the pinks and 2 boxes for the blues and brimstones. Total cost £75 for one unit! That's double what it cost for a single stonehorn model and is less points. Funnily enough if you go the alternative route of vengeance pink horrors it flips since you pay 215 points for a 10 man unit only worth £25 which is better points to cost ratio than making that single stonehorn a FLoSH. Also, you could take a box of blue/brimstone horrors and make two units of horrors one costing 140 (blues) and the other 115 (brimstones) points for only £25.

 

Just thought I'd share that gem since I find it funny. 😆

[Skreech Verminking]

Well the cheapest way to get into skaven, would be by buying collections online.

The Skaven starter box, is well let’s just say not a bad start, but with the current edition not having been favorable for plague monks at all, you’ll probably only be using the other 2models from that box.

considering that a true skaven army(mixed) will need at least 60clanrats, your best of buying 3boxes as a minimum, although if it would be me, I’d actually tell you to take 6boxes of clanrats instead.

So currently starting a skaven army really isn’t cheap, especially not with a lot of our model options still being printed in metal.

[GrimDork]

Gotrek must be one of the most efficient points to model ratio. 435pts for £20.

Plus he can be used across multiple armies, which is great value wise.