Save stacking - Menace or necessary?

[Skreech Verminking]

14 hours ago, Kadeton said:

Don't view last edition with rose-tinted glasses, just because it was relatively stable towards the end.

It was?

I kinda remember that differently 

[Kadeton]

15 hours ago, stratigo said:

You absolutely have to kill things to score vps. You get vps for killing things. There's more than just primaries.

No, you can (sometimes) kill things to score VPs. You can always score VPs without killing things.

15 hours ago, stratigo said:

And, again, a hero monster dominates the field. It makes careful movement impossible. I don't know what games you are playing where you manage to win by ignoring a hero monster. I don't think they exist.

Ooh, ya got me. I'm actually a paid actor, just out here shillin' for the shadowy conspirators of Big Save.

That nonsense aside, "ignoring" and "not killing" are two completely different things. The last game I played, I sacrificed two of my own monster heroes (a FLoSH and HoTT) over four turns to keep Archaon tied up and away from my scoring units and my forces that were trashing the rest of his army. I knew they couldn't hurt him with his buffs up (but having them in combat forced him to keep those buffs up, denying them to everyone else), so they just attacked whatever other units they could reach and tanked as best they could. When all his buffs finally came down (the Warshrine dead, Finest Hour spent, Mystic Shield failed - this was the cue to charge and Roar to deny All-Out Defence) he died in one combat phase, having killed only those two monsters.

Would that work every time? No, of course not. It's a dice game, and Archaon can spike the dice harder than almost anyone. He could have gotten lucky and auto-killed one of my monsters each combat, and I would have lost - that's the way it goes sometimes. But if I'd just charged everything into him while he was fully buffed I can pretty much guarantee I would have lost on the spot.

[Kasper]

4 hours ago, stratigo said:

Archaon getting binned is better than having archaon be the reason that 90 percent of the model range is binned.

 

Archaon is good enough that he suppresses even other hero monsters.

I mean I dont entirely disagree, but my point was just that the "fix isnt easy" if you intend to keep the current units somewhat viable. Its like "how do you fix sentinels?" bruh just increase points by 3x and they are "fixed" aka tossed in the bin, which ultimately the community probably would benefit from but it isnt the right fix if you want to keep sentinels around in some capacity just like with archaon etc.

[Kasper]

2 hours ago, Kadeton said:

The last game I played, I sacrificed two of my own monster heroes (a FLoSH and HoTT) over four turns to keep Archaon tied up and away from my scoring units and my forces that were trashing the rest of his army.

I guess he wasnt in Tzeentch? Having a hero last for that long vs Archaon is certainly not how my matchups typically go.. Especially with him fighting twice and rerolling all his hits and wounds. 

[Kadeton]

3 hours ago, Kasper said:

I guess he wasnt in Tzeentch?

Slaves, also with Be'lakor. There were lists with Archaon in Tzeentch (with Fateweaver) at the same tournament, but I didn't end up facing them; that would have been quite a different game.

3 hours ago, Kasper said:

Having a hero last for that long vs Archaon is certainly not how my matchups typically go.. Especially with him fighting twice and rerolling all his hits and wounds. 

Save stacking cuts both ways! If your opponent only brings one big threat, you know where to use all your defensive tech. I mainly had to avoid getting insta-killed, which fortunately went my way. I do agree with the general sentiment that Archaon is over-tuned and could use some adjustment (or just not being able to fight twice, that's crazy), but it did make for an exciting game.