Please don't sign up for Warhammer+

[JustAsPlanned]

1 hour ago, RuneBrush said:

Where have you read they're axing free warscrolls?

It hasn’t been officially said, but given that they seem to be putting the vast majority of other previously free things behind the WH+ paywall, it’s reasonable to assume that they’re gonna do the same for the free warscrolls. Plus there were no Warscrolls for any of the new units on Dominion or the other starter sets, which is indicative in my mind.

1 hour ago, Sarouan said:

So based on nothing so far but assumptions they'll do it.

Moving on.

That sounded very dismissive on your part, Sarouan. I try to be respectful and receptive to other people’s thoughts on this topic and it’d be nice for the sentiment to be reciprocated. As I said above, whilst there’s no official announcement (it’d be PR suicide to actively go “hey, we’re getting rid of this free content we’ve provided for the entire games lifespan”), it does look likely.

[schwabbele]

38 minutes ago, Aeryenn said:

Higher price AND no animations

Had the same ( austria) but works in my browser 🤷‍♂️
Maybe they only mean the platform specific TV apps. 

edit: wh tv App also works

Edited August 25, 2021 by schwabbele

[yukishiro1]

2 hours ago, Sarouan said:

They do release digital army books. Just not for free.

https://www.games-workshop.com/fr-BE/Codex-Adeptus-Custodes-ipad-2018

And honestly, if you think that saves some trees, you should better look on the paper industry and how they recycle books already.

I do believe your concern has nothing to do with trees, though. More about you being angry GW doesn't release all rules of their games for free.

 

That's an 8th edition book. GW stopped releasing electronic versions of their 40k rules with 9th edition. That's what the poster was referring to. You now have to buy a physical hardcopy, which gives you a code to redeem in the app for something that is not an electronic version of the book, but instead an electronic rules summary - no lore, no page-by-page ability to flip through, etc. A If you aren't aware of what's been going on in the last year, please take a little time to educate yourself on the topic before claiming other people are wrong. 

There is no electronic version of any of the AOS 3.0 books either, other than the free core rules. And none of the new 3.0 miniatures have free warscrolls available online, either. 

The writing is pretty clearly on the wall here re: both free warscrolls and electronic versions of the books. 

Edited August 25, 2021 by yukishiro1

[Sarouan]

1 hour ago, JustAsPlanned said:

 Plus there were no Warscrolls for any of the new units on Dominion or the other starter sets, which is indicative in my mind.

They did the same for when they release "exclusive" boxes with new units like for the daughters of Khaine. The updated warscrolls came online later.

 

1 hour ago, JustAsPlanned said:

That sounded very dismissive on your part, Sarouan.

And your previous post was very affirmative, like it was a fact GW already publicly aknowledged or wrote somewhere else. But it was just an opinion of yours, as you clarified upwards.

So I did tell my opinion on that matter, that's all.

 

1 hour ago, JustAsPlanned said:

I try to be respectful and receptive to other people’s thoughts on this topic and it’d be nice for the sentiment to be reciprocated.

What was disrespectful exactly in what I wrote ? I didn't even quote you.

Sounds to me you took it way too personnal. To me, "moving on" means that there is no real interest in trying to do a "what if ?" scenario that may not even be relevant once GW will release the 3.0 battletome. "Wait and see" is much more better at this point.

 

...Like this Warhammer +, in the end. I admit I rolled my eyes upwards when I read Hollow's original post, but it's not like it surprised me. He did the same when there was the buzz about mods and fan animations...then now it all died down, so it's a big noise for nothing in the end.

To me, here it's exactly the same situation. Big noise for nothing. And to me, the main point he wants to make is just his general dislike for GW, like others, and he doesn't care much more for the real facts : only anything that makes GW look bad.

To me, his OT to "please not subscribe now to GW" isn't because he believes it would "benefit" customers. It's because he believes it will hurt GW if Warhammer + isn't successful.

Not like it matters or has any real effect, though. Pretty sure people didn't need his intervention to already have their own opinion on the matter. Yep, there's not much content here (it's not like you can't go on the website and actually see all the videos available for subscribers, is it)...but that's why GW made a few advertisement with the vouchers and the free miniature or the yearly deal. It's precisely to make people subscribe now when there isn't much content, and it's also why it's a deal now rather than later since...well, the later you subscribe, the later you get your miniature or you don't have that voucher of the value of two months anyway. Later...the difference in content will be there.

Edited August 25, 2021 by Sarouan

[JustAsPlanned]

2 hours ago, Sarouan said:

They did the same for when they release "exclusive" boxes with new units like for the daughters of Khaine. The updated warscrolls came online later.

 

And your previous post was very affirmative, like it was a fact GW already publicly aknowledged or wrote somewhere else. But it was just an opinion of yours, as you clarified upwards.

So I did tell my opinion on that matter, that's all.

 

What was disrespectful exactly in what I wrote ? I didn't even quote you.

Sounds to me you took it way too personnal. To me, "moving on" means that there is no real interest in trying to do a "what if ?" scenario that may not even be relevant once GW will release the 3.0 battletome. "Wait and see" is much more better at this point.

 

...Like this Warhammer +, in the end. I admit I rolled my eyes upwards when I read Hollow's original post, but it's not like it surprised me. He did the same when there was the buzz about mods and fan animations...then now it all died down, so it's a big noise for nothing in the end.

To me, here it's exactly the same situation. Big noise for nothing. And to me, the main point he wants to make is just his general dislike for GW, like others, and he doesn't care much more for the real facts : only anything that makes GW look bad.

To me, his OT to "please not subscribe now to GW" isn't because he believes it would "benefit" customers. It's because he believes it will hurt GW if Warhammer + isn't successful.

Not like it matters or has any real effect, though. Pretty sure people didn't need his intervention to already have their own opinion on the matter. Yep, there's not much content here (it's not like you can't go on the website and actually see all the videos available for subscribers, is it)...but that's why GW made a few advertisement with the vouchers and the free miniature or the yearly deal. It's precisely to make people subscribe now when there isn't much content, and it's also why it's a deal now rather than later since...well, the later you subscribe, the later you get your miniature or you don't have that voucher of the value of two months anyway. Later...the difference in content will be there.

I had a pretty long response to this typed out, but going back and forth over what’s dismissive or disrespectful isn’t really productive, so I’ll just say this: WH+ as a concept is very much a disconcerting one as putting a lot of previously free stuff behind a paywall always is, as it leads people to (quite understandably) believe that other free stuff will come under it at a later point. We don’t know for sure, like you said, but it is likely.

But whatever. Everyone’s entitled to their own opinion on whether it’s good or gonna work well, but I’m definitely in the no camp. Not because I want GW to fail, mind you, but because I just don’t think paywalls like that are a good idea.

[RuneBrush]

5 hours ago, PJetski said:

Fact: They are never updating the old AOS app

Fact: They are locking all warscrolls moving forward behind the new app

Fact: The old app was free, the new one is not

Fact: Reboxed units do not have warscrolls, only the weapon profiles and a stat block (just like in 40k)

Fact: None of the warscrolls from Dominion are posted on the GW webstore. This is the first AOS product ever released that does not have a warscroll download available. This is consistent across all products with these models, such as the starter sets and paint bundle kits.

Fact: There has been no official statement confirming they will carry on their previous business practices.

Fact: There is zero evidence suggesting they will ever release free warscrolls or matched play rules again. All evidence points to the contrary.

 

4 hours ago, JustAsPlanned said:

It hasn’t been officially said, but given that they seem to be putting the vast majority of other previously free things behind the WH+ paywall, it’s reasonable to assume that they’re gonna do the same for the free warscrolls. Plus there were no Warscrolls for any of the new units on Dominion or the other starter sets, which is indicative in my mind.

That sounded very dismissive on your part, Sarouan. I try to be respectful and receptive to other people’s thoughts on this topic and it’d be nice for the sentiment to be reciprocated. As I said above, whilst there’s no official announcement (it’d be PR suicide to actively go “hey, we’re getting rid of this free content we’ve provided for the entire games lifespan”), it does look likely.

Sorry to point this out, but a some of this isn't fact - it's assumptions.  Let's wait until GW actually makes this move before condemning them shall we?  I'll also point out that the AoS 3 rules are still available to download - without warscrolls you can't actually use them.

Not having the warscroll in the instruction booklet also makes a lot of sense.  Firstly I've yet to meet anybody who actually uses them and secondly we're seeing the life expectancy of warscrolls measured in around 3 years - this makes boxes of miniatures out of date pretty quickly.  If you take the warscroll out, the boxes are valid for a much longer period of time.

 

5 hours ago, JackStreicher said:

I disagree. We should compare it to a subscription like Netflix, since, to be honest, everything apart from the Animations should be free anyways. They basically make us pay for their advertisements 🥲

Going to disagree with you in return here 😉  I don't think it's reasonable to expect any content to be provided for free.  Neither do the dozens of people who run patreons, put adverts into their YouTube videos or have Kofi accounts open for donations. 

[Harioch]

4 hours ago, Aeryenn said:

This is ridiculous. 😄

Higher price AND no animations. 😄

Yeah...10% of the medium monthly wage in Poland for a year of suscription ...

But it's still around 50ish euros/pounds. Not to defend GW executives or anything in this decision at all, but that's what Apple, streaming and gaming companies did. They tend to uniformize the prices between countries because the last thing they want is a british customer whose going to pay less than what he should with a polish/brazilian account.

Again I'm not in favor of this buisness practice. Just saying that's not new and where it's coming from..and that it sucks for some of those countries because they forget the economic realities of those people who lives there just to stop a dozen. And let's be honest...Wh+ is not Disney+ or Netflix...there will not be that much suscribers compared to those, hence there will not be many people that'll do that kind of practice.

Edited August 25, 2021 by Harioch

[yukishiro1]

The lack of electronic books isn't speculation. There are no electronic books for 3.0. GHB 2019 and 2020 had e-pubs; GHB 2021 does not. The core rulebook does not. They discontinued them in 40k. They have never said there will be any for AOS 3.0. That one seems very clear: e-pubs are gone in AOS3, just like they're gone in 40k. People have been complaining about it non-stop since they did it in 40k, BTW, and GW hasn't budged an inch or even ever addressed the complaints. It's clearly a high-up business decision they aren't going to reconsider unless it really hurts their bottom line. 

They haven't come out and explicitly said anything re: warscrolls, but there aren't warscrolls online. Is it still possible they suddenly put the scrolls up when individual kits come out? Maybe. But it isn't looking good for free online warscrolls right now. 

Edited August 25, 2021 by yukishiro1

[Howdyhedberg]

27 minutes ago, RuneBrush said:

Sorry to point this out, but a some of this isn't fact - it's assumptions.  Let's wait until GW actually makes this move before condemning them shall we?  I'll also point out that the AoS 3 rules are still available to download - without warscrolls you can't actually use them.

Not having the warscroll in the instruction booklet also makes a lot of sense.  Firstly I've yet to meet anybody who actually uses them and secondly we're seeing the life expectancy of warscrolls measured in around 3 years - this makes boxes of miniatures out of date pretty quickly.  If you take the warscroll out, the boxes are valid for a much longer period of time.

Then we have the Lumineth warscrolls that were valid for 7-8 months?

[azdimy]

Definitely not signing to that service at this point. Will reevaluate every 6mo like gw does with their faq 😀

[CommissarRotke]

we've disagreed in the past, but I'm 100% with you on this. Especially if you're an AOS fan first/most, there's really zero reason to start subscribing now if you're keen on doing so.

[CommissarRotke]

6 hours ago, RuneBrush said:

Going to disagree with you in return here 😉  I don't think it's reasonable to expect any content to be provided for free.  Neither do the dozens of people who run patreons, put adverts into their YouTube videos or have Kofi accounts open for donations. 

While true, I think it's much better to be giving money directly to content creators instead of seeing them assimilated into the larger company and having no idea how much of our money actually goes to paying them.

But those semantics aside, the core point remains that the only AOS content is in the White Dwarf Vault & we have no idea how long it'll remain like that. I think I heard there's one AOS batrep, though I'm hesitant to even count that since it's an attempt to compete with fan-made content.

[Greyshadow]

Like others have alluded, subscription services can become a real chain around your neck. We are reasonably disciplined in our household and try to limit the number we have on the go at once but even so I have Spotify Premium, Britbox, Duncan Rhodes painting academy, Office 365 and Apple iCloud on the go right now ($8+$9+$7.50+ $8.25+$1.5 = $34.25 AUD per month, $411 AUD per year). Add Warhammer+ and I am up to $525 AUD per year on digital. I don't know about you but I think that's starting to really add up.

I am not criticising GW here just the sneaky way subscription services get in to your wallet by not seeming like much money.

But, I've sunk $22.50 into three months of the Duncan Rhodes painting academy so far. This is what I have to show for it... 😃

Edited August 26, 2021 by Greyshadow

[Skreech Verminking]

4 hours ago, Greyshadow said:

Like others have alluded, subscription services can become a real chain around your neck. We are reasonably disciplined in our household and try to limit the number we have on the go at once but even so I have Spotify Premium, Britbox, Duncan Rhodes painting academy, Office 365 and Apple iCloud on the go right now ($8+$9+$7.50+ $8.25+$1.5 = $34.25 AUD per month, $411 AUD per year). Add Warhammer+ and I am up to $525 AUD per year on digital. I don't know about you but I think that's starting to really add up.

I am not criticising GW here just the sneaky way subscription services get in to your wallet by not seeming like much money.

But, I've sunk $22.50 into three months of the Duncan Rhodes painting academy so far. This is what I have to show for it... 😃

Looks great 

[Sarouan]

11 hours ago, yukishiro1 said:

That one seems very clear: e-pubs are gone in AOS3, just like they're gone in 40k.

For now.

We don't even have the new battletomes for AoS 3 out, all we have is the rulebook and well...you know we have the core rules on a free PDF available to download on their site.

Otherwise, they still do electronic books. Just not the ones you want.

Black Library has plenty of digital and audio books (who don't kill trees as well ).

 

So using that argument to justify not subscribing to Warhammer + (that's entirely digital, by the way !) is sounding kinda just like a weak excuse, to me.

 

11 hours ago, yukishiro1 said:

They haven't come out and explicitly said anything re: warscrolls, but there aren't warscrolls online. Is it still possible they suddenly put the scrolls up when individual kits come out? Maybe. But it isn't looking good for free online warscrolls right now. 

It's looking neither good nor bad. You choose "bad" because you're biased negatively towards GW, that's the real reason here. The current answer about warscrolls made specifically for AoS 3.0 (meaning new battletomes) is : we don't know.

You have no facts supporting you on the removal of warscrolls so far. Wait for the 3.0 battletomes, then maybe you'll have some. And if you do, you'll have the right to make a victory dance on top of my head if that makes you happy.

Everything else is just assumptions.

  

11 hours ago, RuneBrush said:

Not having the warscroll in the instruction booklet also makes a lot of sense.  Firstly I've yet to meet anybody who actually uses them and secondly we're seeing the life expectancy of warscrolls measured in around 3 years - this makes boxes of miniatures out of date pretty quickly.  If you take the warscroll out, the boxes are valid for a much longer period of time.

That, and we also had leaks in the past because of the instruction booklet. So the less you put, the more you control the information.

To me, the change in it isn't indicative at all about what GW intends to do with warscrolls available for free on their site. It's still easier to control the flux that way, after all.

  

4 hours ago, Greyshadow said:

I am not criticising GW here just the sneaky way subscription services get in to your wallet by not seeming like much money.

Ah, the debate on microtransactions, indeed. It's a whole story in itself, but you're totally right. With patreons and alike, it's very easy to lose count of the total of money you let go every month if you're not careful.

 

To be honest, I was intending to wait before subscribing, because it's true there's not much content so far. It's the vouchers that changed my mind - basically, the amount was covering the first two months anyway and it's a good amount of time to see what GW will add meanwhile. I thought to take a year to really test them (and have the miniature, of course ). So I'm giving them a try, like I did with Miniwargaming. And if after that it's not suiting me or I don't find the content interesting enough, I'll stop. Just like with Miniwargaming.

Edited August 26, 2021 by Sarouan

[Ragest]

14 hours ago, Howdyhedberg said:

Then we have the Lumineth warscrolls that were valid for 7-8 months?

They didn’t change any word in the old warscrolls when second wave came in

[Howdyhedberg]

2 hours ago, Ragest said:

They didn’t change any word in the old warscrolls when second wave came in

I have two of all the first units then :)! 

 

I haven't opened the newest one. I will keep it until 2060 and see if it's worth something then (probably not).

I would probably sign up for a year to wh+ if I felt it was worth it. Right now I don't feel it is. But it might be in the future! After all, it's not that far from the cost of a model\unit. And you get one in the price.

If you could get all the rules in both 40k and AoS, then I would totally feel that it would be worth the price.

 

[yukishiro1]

7 hours ago, Sarouan said:

Otherwise, they still do electronic books. Just not the ones you want.

Uh...yes? That's the whole point people were making? Why would I care if they are still doing epubs of stuff I don't want? 

This is one of the most curious defenses of a corporate decision to eliminate a product I have ever seen. 

Edited August 26, 2021 by yukishiro1

[Golub87]

Wait, we get the privilege of watching the advertisements disguised as mediocre content AND we get to support the poor shareholders by paying for it AND we get access to all the content we had access to for free (but worse)?!?

Where do I sign up?

Edited August 26, 2021 by Golub87

[Golub87]

As for the whole "no digital" thing - I love all the dancing around the bush and not naming the elephant in the room as much as the next guy, but the reason why GW is cutting on it is simple - it is easier to pirate. Infinitely easier.

And like all anti-piracy measures, it ends up being an anti-consumer measure that can even cost the company. It is even an anti-environment measure that is also very unfriendly to people with disabilities as we have seen on previous threads.

GW has a significant market of people who are invested in the product via mixture of emotional link to the stuff you own (since you build and customize your army yourself, thus having a fruit of your own labor that is uniquely NOT alienated from you) and sunk cost fallacy. Why should they give you anything for free, when they can extract that little bit of extra wealth? What will you do? Stop? You are hooked, too deep in. It is easier to buy the next rule book, than throw away all those hours of work and all that money invested in the hobby.

Naturally, this kind of mindset is very sensitive to bumps that risk to dislodge it, hence the often seen reaction to any kind of criticism leveled at GW or the game. A significant number of people NEED this game to be the best there is and GW to be a stand up people who do not pull shady stuff.

Ironically enough, it is these people that actually make sure that GW can get away with bad rules and hostile behavior.

Edited August 26, 2021 by Golub87

[Sartxac]

 While they win more earns, less content is free.

Furthermore, the comparisson between GW and patreons or other free content creadors who ask for voluntari donations, at the very least, is hilarious. 

 

But if we aren't agree, the solution is easy, consists of don't pay. We ever have battelscribe. 

[Honk]

On 8/25/2021 at 10:58 PM, RuneBrush said:

Let's wait until GW actually makes this move before condemning them shall we?

On the topic of the warscroll builder page: 

I stand corrected, on the FB page I was told, that the WSB page remains unaffected by WH+…

Thunder of eight hooves were unicorns 🥳 not sleipnir 

[Sarouan]

Well of course if you're not convinced by Warhammer + and think there is no value in giving GW money for that, you're better with no subscription. Not like you have to do it, in the end.

And if you think you won a great battle against GW by not subscribing / writing posts on a forum to tell others not to subscribe, good for you as well.

See you in a few more months when more content is added.

 

[Gaz Taylor]

+++ MOD HAT ON +++
Right time to tap the rules sign and unsheathe the ban stick.

Very simple. It’s okay to not like Warhammer+ for a variety of reasons (you don’t like the content, you don’t want to pay, you feel they could do better, etc) BUT keep it constructive. 
 

So this is the warning now. If you post in a negative way (aka it’s not constructive and generally makes you sad), you will get warning points and/or a ban. 
 

[GrogTheGrognard]

At the end of the day this boils down to if you value Warhammer+ at $6 per month or not. Some will value it at $6 per month, some higher, and some lower.

 

Personally, this doesn't seem to be something I really need. I can find a wealth of tutorials for my painting needs online to the point I don't feel the need to pay and add more. Ditto for battle reports. Animations I've talked about before and don't really feel the need to dredge it back up again. Old WD would be cool, but I already have a backlog I have to get through so maybe I'll consider it once I've finished with those. As for the mini's while they're nice I don't feel either of them is $6 a month nice for me since I don't have a use for either besides kitbashing/diorama making. All in all I'm gonna give W+ a pass, but maybe others will find enjoyment out of it.