FYI

[Liquidsteel]

Fair enough, in an effort to put this to bed I have tried again and this time managed a proper "live chat", rather than submitting my question and waiting for a response to come through via email.

The advisor confirmed there is no rules help desk, they are all one customer services team.

He did, however, answer my question. Below is the transcript.

So we now have 3 responses from 3 different people from the same team with the following conclusions:

1) you must take an allegiance trait/artefact first

2) you are free to pick 

3) we are not allowed to comment and will pass it to the actual rules/FAQ team

 

Today’s chat with Rowan

Hey Joe,

If you’ve got any other questions, feel free to hit reply and continue the conversation.

Here’s a copy of your discussion

You Hello, do you have a specific help desk for advice with rules for Age of Sigmar that I could connect with?   Rowan joined the chat Rowan Hi, thanks for getting in touch! We can help with rules queries here, what would you like to know? You Hello, In section 27.4 of the AoS Core Rules, it states that "If the allegiance abilities for a subfaction include a command trait and the general of your army has the keyword for that subfaction, then that command trait must be the one you give to your general. If the allegiance abilities for a subfaction include an artefact of power and any Heroes in your army have the keyword for that subfaction, then that artefact of power must be the first artefact of power given to one of those Heroes." Is this referring to those sub factions which only give you one choice of Trait and Artefact that MUST be taken (e.g. Gristlegore Flesh Eater Courts), or to all sub factions that give you a range of choices e.g. Kastelai Dynasty Soulblight Gravelords? If it only refers to those that are "locked in" to a particular trait, are those that are free to pick allowed to use the generic command traits and artefacts from the Core Rules, e.g. "master of magic" or "amulet of destiny" as their first picks? Thank you! Rowan This rule means that if your general is locked in, you will have to pick those specific abilities and artefacts. However, if you do not have a general that is locked in, then you can pick any options you like! This includes the generic traits and artefacts You Thanks Rowan, this helps clear things up. Do you know if it can be addressed in the next AoS FAQ, as currently there is a fair bit of discussion on this rule due to it being a little bit unclear. Rowan I'll certainly pass this on to the rules team for you! I won't be able to guarantee that this will be included but I can assure you that this will reach the rules team for you. In the meantime, was there anything else I could help with today? You Could I ask if you are from specific rules help desk or is this just the general customer service chat? Rowan This is the general customer service live chat. We've got a number of hobby specialists here, including myself, who are here to help with rules, lore and any hobby queries you might have! We're not a part of the rules team who make the FAQs, but we can contact them on your behalf with questions like this You perfect okay, thank you so much You can I get a transcript of this sent to my email? Rowan I'm glad I could help! You'll get a copy of this to your email once the chat has ended and if you have any other questions at all, please feel free to let us know. In the meantime, I hope you have a lovely day! You thanks you too!       Rowan ended the chat

[Dietzen]

2 hours ago, Liquidsteel said:

Fair enough, in an effort to put this to bed I have tried again and this time managed a proper "live chat", rather than submitting my question and waiting for a response to come through via email.

The advisor confirmed there is no rules help desk, they are all one customer services team.

He did, however, answer my question. Below is the transcript.

So we now have 3 responses from 3 different people from the same team with the following conclusions:

1) you must take an allegiance trait/artefact first

2) you are free to pick 

3) we are not allowed to comment and will pass it to the actual rules/FAQ team

 

Today’s chat with Rowan

Hey Joe,

If you’ve got any other questions, feel free to hit reply and continue the conversation.

Here’s a copy of your discussion

You Hello, do you have a specific help desk for advice with rules for Age of Sigmar that I could connect with?   Rowan joined the chat Rowan Hi, thanks for getting in touch! We can help with rules queries here, what would you like to know? You Hello, In section 27.4 of the AoS Core Rules, it states that "If the allegiance abilities for a subfaction include a command trait and the general of your army has the keyword for that subfaction, then that command trait must be the one you give to your general. If the allegiance abilities for a subfaction include an artefact of power and any Heroes in your army have the keyword for that subfaction, then that artefact of power must be the first artefact of power given to one of those Heroes." Is this referring to those sub factions which only give you one choice of Trait and Artefact that MUST be taken (e.g. Gristlegore Flesh Eater Courts), or to all sub factions that give you a range of choices e.g. Kastelai Dynasty Soulblight Gravelords? If it only refers to those that are "locked in" to a particular trait, are those that are free to pick allowed to use the generic command traits and artefacts from the Core Rules, e.g. "master of magic" or "amulet of destiny" as their first picks? Thank you! Rowan This rule means that if your general is locked in, you will have to pick those specific abilities and artefacts. However, if you do not have a general that is locked in, then you can pick any options you like! This includes the generic traits and artefacts You Thanks Rowan, this helps clear things up. Do you know if it can be addressed in the next AoS FAQ, as currently there is a fair bit of discussion on this rule due to it being a little bit unclear. Rowan I'll certainly pass this on to the rules team for you! I won't be able to guarantee that this will be included but I can assure you that this will reach the rules team for you. In the meantime, was there anything else I could help with today? You Could I ask if you are from specific rules help desk or is this just the general customer service chat? Rowan This is the general customer service live chat. We've got a number of hobby specialists here, including myself, who are here to help with rules, lore and any hobby queries you might have! We're not a part of the rules team who make the FAQs, but we can contact them on your behalf with questions like this You perfect okay, thank you so much You can I get a transcript of this sent to my email? Rowan I'm glad I could help! You'll get a copy of this to your email once the chat has ended and if you have any other questions at all, please feel free to let us know. In the meantime, I hope you have a lovely day! You thanks you too!       Rowan ended the chat

You do realize he also confirms you have to pick from the table right? He literally says, if your general is locked in you will have to pick those specific ones..

 

 

Here's the chat I just had

 

Today’s chat with Brandon     Hey Martin,   If you’ve got any other questions, feel free to hit reply and continue the conversation. Here’s a copy of your discussion   You Hello I've got a question about the Age of Sigmar core rules section 27.4 and whether or not it affects the Soulblight Gravelords bloodlines? Since the rule 27.4 says a/an trait/artifact and to use "that", it implies it only affects scenarios where there is a singular option?   Brandon joined the chat Brandon Hello, thank you for getting in touch. Let me look into this for you now. Brandon Yes this would apply to them from my reading of the rules as the Vampire Bloodlines count as the subfactions for this army. You Okay, but what about the word usage, the 27.4 rule says if there is A command trait, or AN artifact, you have to use THAT. Is this to be taken literally as in, it only should apply if there is a single option available? You Since each bloodline has 6 options for both command traits and artifacts (except Avengorii which has 3 ofc) Brandon A hero can only take one artefact of power hence the singular, they are taking an artefact of power from the list. You Okay, thank you for taking the time to get back to me :) Brandon No problem at all, anything else I can help you with? You Not currently no :)       Brandon ended the chat     So I agree let's put this to rest in that you do actually have to pick from the available tables. ;)

[Dietzen]

2 hours ago, Liquidsteel said:

Fair enough, in an effort to put this to bed I have tried again and this time managed a proper "live chat", rather than submitting my question and waiting for a response to come through via email.

The advisor confirmed there is no rules help desk, they are all one customer services team.

He did, however, answer my question. Below is the transcript.

So we now have 3 responses from 3 different people from the same team with the following conclusions:

1) you must take an allegiance trait/artefact first

2) you are free to pick 

3) we are not allowed to comment and will pass it to the actual rules/FAQ team

 

Today’s chat with Rowan

Hey Joe,

If you’ve got any other questions, feel free to hit reply and continue the conversation.

Here’s a copy of your discussion

You Hello, do you have a specific help desk for advice with rules for Age of Sigmar that I could connect with?   Rowan joined the chat Rowan Hi, thanks for getting in touch! We can help with rules queries here, what would you like to know? You Hello, In section 27.4 of the AoS Core Rules, it states that "If the allegiance abilities for a subfaction include a command trait and the general of your army has the keyword for that subfaction, then that command trait must be the one you give to your general. If the allegiance abilities for a subfaction include an artefact of power and any Heroes in your army have the keyword for that subfaction, then that artefact of power must be the first artefact of power given to one of those Heroes." Is this referring to those sub factions which only give you one choice of Trait and Artefact that MUST be taken (e.g. Gristlegore Flesh Eater Courts), or to all sub factions that give you a range of choices e.g. Kastelai Dynasty Soulblight Gravelords? If it only refers to those that are "locked in" to a particular trait, are those that are free to pick allowed to use the generic command traits and artefacts from the Core Rules, e.g. "master of magic" or "amulet of destiny" as their first picks? Thank you! Rowan This rule means that if your general is locked in, you will have to pick those specific abilities and artefacts. However, if you do not have a general that is locked in, then you can pick any options you like! This includes the generic traits and artefacts You Thanks Rowan, this helps clear things up. Do you know if it can be addressed in the next AoS FAQ, as currently there is a fair bit of discussion on this rule due to it being a little bit unclear. Rowan I'll certainly pass this on to the rules team for you! I won't be able to guarantee that this will be included but I can assure you that this will reach the rules team for you. In the meantime, was there anything else I could help with today? You Could I ask if you are from specific rules help desk or is this just the general customer service chat? Rowan This is the general customer service live chat. We've got a number of hobby specialists here, including myself, who are here to help with rules, lore and any hobby queries you might have! We're not a part of the rules team who make the FAQs, but we can contact them on your behalf with questions like this You perfect okay, thank you so much You can I get a transcript of this sent to my email? Rowan I'm glad I could help! You'll get a copy of this to your email once the chat has ended and if you have any other questions at all, please feel free to let us know. In the meantime, I hope you have a lovely day! You thanks you too!       Rowan ended the chat

Also you asked the question in such a convoluted way that you force the meaning. Now I've just been in touch with Rowan again, and he agrees with Brandon

 

Today’s chat with Rowan     Hey Martin,   If you’ve got any other questions, feel free to hit reply and continue the conversation. Here’s a copy of your discussion   You AoS rule 27.4   Brandon joined the chat Brandon Hello again, how can I help? You Hi again Brandon, don't suppose you can connect me to Rowan? You You I've got a forum debate wherein Rowan answered in a way, that could be construed as to rule 27.4 is only applicable in situations wherein there is a singular option such as FeC Brandon I will forward you now.   Rowan joined the chat Rowan Hello again! How can I help you? You Hi there Rowan! You Well I haven't talked to you earlier, but someone from a forum I'm on had, and he asked about the core rules in AoS 27.4 You now, I just want to clarify 1 thing. You When I've pick a bloodline for Soulblight Gravelords, do I have to pick a command trait from that bloodline, and then the first artifact from that bloodline? OR Am I free to pick from the core rules, as there are multiple options to be taken in the bloodlines? You So basically does rule 27.4 apply to Soulblight Gravelords or not? Rowan Regarding that specific rule, if the Bloodline confers a key word, then the artefact and command traits must all match the key word. The rule applies to all factions equally, unless otherwise stated in their Battletomes. If there's no exemption in the Battletome, then the rule must be followed. I hope that helps! You Each bloodline confers a keyword yes, so let's then be clear. If I chose the Legion of Blood bloodline, I MUST pick a command trait from that table, and the first artifact MUST be from that table? Rowan That's correct! This is what rule 27.4 means for the Soulblight Gravelords You Thank you Rowan, all I needed to hear       Rowan ended the chat

 

 

So we have 2 reps from GW directly telling us we need to abide by rule 27.4, and that's it.

[Liquidsteel]

Haha yeah it's convoluted for sure, though I was trying to make it less so with my wording.

I can see what he means though and fair enough can see he meant something different to what I thought he did (I meant locked in to a specific trait/artefact, he meant an allegiance).

I'm willing to agree that it seems intended for the first pick to be from the book and it's how I had initially read the rules upon release, however as discussed at the start, the wording of the core rules is not clear enough and so very few events are playing it that way currently (apart from one major upcoming event which has specifically ruled it as part of their pack).

Hopefully an FAQ can clear it up.

[Sception]

If you follow the more restrictive interpretation it breaks soulblight subfactions altogether, as you would be required to take not just one /of/ the subfaction's command traits / artefacts, but rather /each individual/ command trait and artefact within the subfaction.  Ie, taking Pack Alpha as the command trait for your Vyrkos general would be illegal, because "Spoor Tracker" is also "a" command trait made available by the Vyrkos subfaction and thus your general would be required to take "that" command trait.  You would be required to take each and every command trait and artefact made available by your subfaction, and thus wouldn't be allowed to take any, and thus Soulblight Lists would be illegal if they take any generic heroes at all.

The rule needs errata, and sadly it didn't get it in the new go round, at least not that I initially noticed.  I expect that when we get proper clarification (not custserv responses, which are not official and can be contradictory) that yeah, you'll be required to take "one of" the options from your subfaction, just because kneejerk faq/errata tends to be more restrictive, but right now imo the only internally consistent interpretation that doesn't break anything is that the core rule only applies to subfactions that only have one command trait and artefact each.  Which makes sense, since those subfactions were written with the assumption that faction armies didn't use subfactions by default, and thus accessing a subfaction should come with some sort of additional cost or restriction.  That's simply not the case in the Soulblight Book, so the restriction really doesn't make any sense, but there you go.

[Honk]

On 8/27/2021 at 7:27 PM, Sception said:

The rule needs errata, and sadly it didn't get it in the new go round, at least not that I initially noticed. 

The rules team seems to be not doing so sharp recently, reactivation of extra wards🧐

I‘m also not so sure about the „no fighting“ rule for Morthingys claw 🤔 

sure, unleash hell/ redeploy got fixed and the claw „running“ kinda cleared, but it turns out, that for each fix two things break somewhere 🙄

I hope when the time of IP lawyering and  the WH+ focus is gone, the rules team gets in some bootcamp and maybe 4.0 will be less of a broken unbalanced RAW/RAI desaster 

[vlad3theimpaler]

2 hours ago, Honk said:

The rules team seems to be not doing so sharp recently, reactivation of extra wards🧐

I‘m also not so sure about the „no fighting“ rule for Morthingys claw 🤔 

sure, unleash hell/ redeploy got fixed and the claw „running“ kinda cleared, but it turns out, that for each fix two things break somewhere 🙄

I hope when the time of IP lawyering and  the WH+ focus is gone, the rules team gets in some bootcamp and maybe 4.0 will be less of a broken unbalanced RAW/RAI desaster 

I don't get it.  What's the issue with Morbheg's claw?  Looks like the errata just cleared it up.

[Honk]

1 hour ago, vlad3theimpaler said:

What's the issue with Morbheg's claw?

What if he is attacked? 
13.1.2 states that he must attack, the claw says he is not allowed to fight 🤔

so tome over core, he‘s not fighting whatever happens around him or he has to fight and ends his buff aura?

guess it‘s no fighting, but still…

[vlad3theimpaler]

9 hours ago, Honk said:

What if he is attacked? 
13.1.2 states that he must attack, the claw says he is not allowed to fight 🤔

so tome over core, he‘s not fighting whatever happens around him or he has to fight and ends his buff aura?

guess it‘s no fighting, but still…

Seems pretty clear to me, he can't fight, so he sits there and gets pounded on.

[Honk]

9 hours ago, vlad3theimpaler said:

gets pounded on.

Hopefully he has enough rabble to take the punches 🤣🤕

[Sception]

I don't mind the claw change.  You put it on necromancers.  That bonk branch wasn't doing anything anyway.

[relic456]

Not to stir an old pot, but I just noticed that in today's Metawatch article, the featured Soulblight list is Vrykos dynasty and doesn't take any dynasty specific artefacts, instead opting for Arcane Tome and Amulet of Destiny, 

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/09/10/metawatch-which-warhammer-age-of-sigmar-armies-contested-the-top-tables-at-the-warhammer-open/?utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=Article&utm_campaign=Metawatch+AOS&fbclid=IwAR0gqnzatv4nDM2_PUwXJxWKonZZp9So1sGpRixhxuYL632BGlY7XAMP32Q