AoS 3 - Hedonites of Slaanesh 2021 battletome survey

[Enoby]

Survey link: https://forms.gle/Tpnm3VS1Jwe1qoEDA Please read below 

Hi all - I though it best to create another thread for the AoS 3 HoS battletome survey

As before, I'll collect the answers for a few weeks before sharing the results and submitting the survey. I'll be asking people to take the survey on Facebook, Whatsapp, TGA, and I'm going to try contact some Twitter and YouTube personalities too and see if they can help. Hopefully we'll get over 100 responses.

As before, the survey isn't trying to test a hypothesis or 'prove' anything. It's simply there to collect opinions to send them on to the rules team and hopefully inspire a change (if opinions want a change at all). In the final email I may include more 'objective' things like win rates in tournaments, but in all honesty the main aim is to make the rules writers aware of fan/player opinions in a polite and constructive way. If 90% of answers are "we love the rules" then that's fine - I'll still send it on for the writers to be aware of!

While I would have liked the past survey to have had an effect, in all honesty with it being a new edition there's a good chance that they didn't have the time to make a change, and also that they may have been cautious about listening to opinions before the new rules were played. Many of us have had games and even tournaments in AoS 3 - and before answering this survey I would ask that you have at least some experience with the faction - either playing it or playing against it. 

Hopefully it does inspire a change, and maybe if we're really really lucky, it may open up a path for better fan communication with designers in the future. Not that I expect that, but I think it would be the most positive change this survey could bring. 

Finally, an important note is to keep all answers polite and constructive. Even if you abhor the rule, do not insult the designers - any insulting comment will not be shared with them. I would also implore that you answer honestly - if you're a Slaanesh player, don't just answer that everything is costed too highly because you want to see massive points drops even when not deserved, and if you're not, please don't answer at random or with contrarian opinions for the sake of it.

Here is the link to the survey: https://forms.gle/Tpnm3VS1Jwe1qoEDA

Edited August 18, 2021 by Enoby

[pnkdth]

Signed and thanks for all the work you've put in!

[Enoby]

Hi everyone I'll be collecting the results of the Slaanesh 2021 battletome survey soon - we've already have hundreds of responses (thank you!) but I just wanted to give those who have missed it the opportunity to share their thoughts

 

As before, please don't write anything insulting to the designers (no matter your thoughts on the book), and please only give a response if you've had at least some experience with the army You can find the survey here: https://forms.gle/duDRSHcMEhhNVw17A

 

I'll publish the results once responses seem to slow down (probably a few days)

[Enoby]

Okay, so here is the initial post for the survey, including conclusion and results 

You can find the full document here: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1quNymPJ4G7IWBGZqfxjklNbllD2mGsQzP3cSOtA_ErI/edit?usp=sharing

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Hedonites of Slaanesh battletome survey

Overall, there were 281 participants, and 91 comments (which will be included in the bottom of these stats). The comments may well be the most insightful part so I would recommend reading them - offensive or obviously ‘trollish’ comments have been omitted.

While there will be an inherent bias in these answers, considering that this can be an emotionally charged discussion, but it is important to note that not all responses are 100% “this unit is too expensive” and that this should be viewed as a guide to some initially gentle touches. Bias or not, if usually only 50% of people say a unit is too expensive, but for one particular unit it is 85% then there is a higher chance that this is a ‘problem’ unit. I have employed the use of Z values to look into this in more detail. 

Mean number of people who responded “X Unit is too highly costed”

While I will include the stats for every question, I believe it would be useful to give some sort of guidance to what the perceived ‘problem’ units are, and to do that I will calculate the Z value “X unit is too highly costed” differs significantly from the mean number of people answering “X unit is too highly costed”. The Z value looks at the number of standard deviations an individual score is above or below the mean. This does not mean that these ‘significant’ units are actually problems (or that other units are), but rather it aims to give a bit of a steer on what to look at first and also aims to control slightly for the bias that will be inherent to surveys like this. 

Note, not every question got 281 answers.

The reason this just looks at “too highly costed” rather than “too cheaply costed” is because there isn’t a single unit where the highest voted answer is “too cheaply costed”.

The average number of people who answered “X unit is too highly costed” for every unit is: 141.15625, Standard Deviation, σ: 51.506740684473

The formula for a Z value is z = (x-μ)/σ, where x is the raw score, μ is the population mean, and σ is the population standard deviation.

Ranked Z values

I have ranked the Z values calculated from the below questions in order to show the most deviating scores. The more the score deviated from the mean (141.15625), the higher the Z value (a negative value means the score deviated below the mean). 

 

* Significant at 0.1 level, ** Significant at 0.05 level

Unit name	Z value
Slaangors	1.93846**
Keeper of Secrets	1.8608**
Blissbarb Archers	1.82197**
Daemonettes	1.41426*
Shalaxi Helbane	1.41426*
Myrmadesh Painbringers	1.20069
Blissbarb seekers	0.96771
Symbaresh Twinsouls	0.90947
Slickblade Seekers	0.83181
Fiends of Slaanesh	0.67649
Shardspeaker of Slaanesh	0.36585
Contorted Epitome	0.34644
Glutos Orscollion, Lord of Gluttony	0.07463
Infernal enrapturess	-0.02245
Lord of Pain	-0.06128
Bladebringer, Herald on Hellflayer	-0.43016
Hellflayer	-0.48841
Syll’Esske, the Vengeful Allegiance	-0.48841
Exalted Chariot	-0.52724
Wheels of Excruciation	-0.52724
Bladebringer, Herald on Seeker Chariot	-0.54665
Bladebringer, Herald on Exalted Chariot	-0.56607
Seekers of Slaanesh	-0.64373
Viceleader, Herald of Slaanesh	-0.70197
Mesmerising Mirror	-0.81846
Seeker Chariot of Slaanesh	-0.81846
Dexcessa, the Talon of Slaanesh	-0.95436
Dreadful Visage	-1.07085
Synessa, the Voice of Slaanesh	-1.14851
Sigvald, Prince of Slaanesh	-1.24559
The Masque of Slaanesh	-1.30383
Hellstriders of Slaanesh	-1.45915*

 

With these scores in mind, I would recommend a careful look at all positive values including those that are not significant, but to pay special attention to those which are significant at the 0.1 level (Daemonettes, Shalaxi Helbane) and have a deep look at those significant at the 0.05 level (Slaangor Fiendbloods, Keeper of Secrets, Blissbarb Archers). 

Conclusion

Overall, there is a neutral to negative view of the battletome, with the majority of people saying they like the rules (60.5%) but also a larger majority saying they believe the battletome is below the average quality compared to other battletomes (66.5%) and a significant majority (88.6%) believing the majority of units are overcosted. 

Of the units people are most concerned about points-wise, Slaangors, the Keeper of Secrets, and Blissbarb Archers have highly significant numbers of people believing they are overcosted (P < 0.05), and the Daemonettes and Shalaxi Helbane are thought of as significantly overcosted (P < 0.1). I believe that these units should have another look over as there is a low probability (sub 5% and sub 10% respectively) that these units were considered overcosted due to chance, meaning that these are the units that drew the most powerful reaction from survey answers. No units had the answer “No I think they are too cheaply costed” as a majority. 

While it is expected (if not confirmed) that the units are priced so highly due to the army’s powerful ability to summon, it may be worth revising this or at least giving it another think over as Slaanesh players and opponents alike believe many of the points are too high regardless. Looking at some of the comments, some would prefer summoning to get worse and points to get lower, or for Slaanesh units not to pay for it at all. 

On the topic of summoning, 8.2% of people believe that it should be the main ‘theme’ in a Slaanesh army, though 38.1% of people say they like it when not asked about it specifically, and 46.6% of people like it when asked about it specifically (compared to 45.2% of people disliking it in some capacity). Overall, summoning is a controversial part of the battletome and, looking at these stats, I think it would be beneficial for the focus to be moved from summoning to another part of the faction’s theme. 

In addition to points and summoning, there was also a call for a rewrite on some warscrolls. The most called for was Slaangors, when not asked about them specifically 73% of people liked the idea of them getting a rewrite, and when asked specifically 76.3% of people wanted them to get a rewrite over a points adjustment. Other notable calls for a rewrite, 45.2% of respondents wanted to see a rewrite of the Shalaxi Helbane warscroll. 

From a more financial/popularity perspective, 64.7% of respondents have said that the points costs have negatively affected their purchases on Slaanesh models, with 22.4% of people saying they haven’t bought anything for Slaanesh because of the points costs but would have otherwise, and 42.3% saying they have bought some but would have bought more if not for the points.  

Of the positives of the book, the most popular part of the book was the innate speed of the army, with 62.3% of people saying they liked this aspect of the book. In addition, the other liked parts was the frequency of rend in the faction (45.2%) and the new mechanics of Depravity Points though not necessarily the summoning (45.2%). 

When asked about what the preferred theme of a Slaanesh battletome should be, the responses were mixed but the highest one was “a finesse playstyle” (31%), followed by “speed” at 23.8%.

Looking to the future, a number of responses were given to what they would like to see in the future. The most popular of these requests is a rewrite to the Slaangor warscroll, with 70.8% of people asking for this. Other popular requests included “More support within the allegiance abilities for mortal only armies” (50.2%), “Synessa getting an extra spell” (54.1%), “An alternative way of using depravity points” (48%), “More synergies available” (48.4%), “More hosts/host options to theme an army around” (47%), and “An expanded mortal spell lore” (44.8%). While many of these options may be a struggle to include quickly, I think it would be fantastic if they could be included in the next battletome or in supplementary books (such as Wrath of the Everchosen) or a Tome Celestial.

Overall, I think that there is a good base for future rules in this battletome, but it faces two major issues - the first is oppressive points costs, with some players feeling as if they are restricted in list building. The second is that the tome feels a bit bare bones - it’s a good foundation, but there’s not much meat to get into with lists; e.g. there are very few synergies or combos, the hosts give very minor bonuses, the daemon spell lore is multiple ways to do mortal wounds and the mortal spell lore is weak and very sparse. That said, with a few tweaks (hopefully using some of these answers as a guide) I think that the book could be fantastic and I fully appreciate that the previous battletome was a bit too strong as so a lot of effort had to be spent on toning it down. 

Finally, to move away from the survey for a moment, Slaanesh is not performing particularly well at a tournament level. See below: 

 

 

While not the lowest win percentage, a 36% win rate is poor and hopefully leads some credence to the idea that the summoning doesn’t need as much of a points buffer to keep it under control. 

 

With the fan response being overwhelmingly in favour of reducing points costs and tournament data showing Slaanesh is well below the average win rate of factions in tournaments, I believe this is a good argument to having a rethink of the points, and I am certain many Slaanesh fans would appreciate positive changes being made to both points and rules updates in the future. 

[Sorrow]

@Enoby you gem!

I have sent the document to GW.

When my friend picks it up, I will let you all know.