Stormcast Eternals 3.0 - There is no "a" in Vindictors

[Erdemo86]

He’s ready for his first game 😌

 

[PJetski]

The Stormkeep episode 12 is live now!

This time we talk about the process of building lists, featuring an example list using my favourite model (Celestant-Prime)

 

[feadair]

This list came fourth in a 60+ player tournament in the US:

Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals
- Stormhost: Hammers of Sigmar (Stormkeep)
- Mortal Realm: Ghyran
- Grand Strategy: Hold the Line
- Triumphs: Inspired
LEADERS
Lord-Arcanum on Tauralon (285)**
- General
- Command Trait: Heroic Stature
- Artefact: Amulet of Destiny
- Mount Trait: Celestial Instincts
- Universal Spell Lore: Flaming Weapon
Lord-Commander Bastia Carthalos (300)**
Knight-Judicator with Gryph-Hounds (205)**
UNITS
10 x Vindictors (260)*
5x Liberators (115)*
- Heavens-wrought Weapon and Shield
5x Liberators (115)*
- Heavens-wrought Weapon and Shield
2 × Dracothian Guard Fulminators (230)*
6 × Vanguard-Raptors with Longstrike Crossbows (480)*
CORE BATTALIONS
*Redemption Brotherhood
**Command Entourage - Magnificent
ADDITIONAL ENHANCEMENTS
Holy Command: Call for Aid
Holy Command: Thunderbolt Volley

[Chronos]

@PJetski Really enjoying the Stormkeep videos!

@Erdemo86 Bastion looks great!

 

I wanted to get some advice on strategy and a little on list building as I've got my first mini tournament coming up, 3 games total. I also lost a game to my Khorne friend playing Feral Foray recently, which was partly me underestimating him, not knowing the scenario, and not screening properly. What I learned from that game is KEEP THE RAPTORS SAFE.

So what I'm thinking for the list is building around Grandhammers, as right now I have nine, and six Raptors with the basic hero contingent of Imperatant, Relictor, and Incantor, all in Scions. Here's the list:

Lord Relictor - General, Mirrorshield, Translocate, High Priest

Knight Incantor - Thundershock or Starfall

Lord Imperatant - Doggo friend

3 x 3 Grandhammer Annihilators

1 x 6 Vanguard Raptors w/ Longstrikes

3 x 5 Liberators w/Shields

Thunderstrike Volley.

This gets me to 1990 points and 87 wounds.

I've been going back and forth on trying to make this a one drop to counter any armies like Lumineth, but I feel like with the Incantor, I can set her up in range of Teclis or Kairos if they are one dropping and not worry as much about going second. This opens me up to be able to take Hunters on my three Grandhammers units which is big, and also grab a second artifact OR Holy Command. I am assuming it's possible to take an extra different Holy Command as it is an Enhancement, but if I'm wrong please let me know. If I took another Holy Command I would be very tempted to take Unleash Thy Hatred, but bringing back 5 Libs would be kind of nice too.

As for why I split the Grandhammers into units of three instead of having one unit of six, in the game against Khorne I took a unit of six and although they wiped out whatever they touched, they then got stuck up the board and affected little else the rest of the game. I'm thinking having units of three drop in every turn will let me react to threats/openings as they present themselves and also keep my opponents wondering. This Also maximizes their warscroll abilities.

The strategy is also to use the Grandhammers in conjunction with the Raptors, in that together they can guarantee to take out tough units in a turn(after the Thunderbolt turn), but really I feel the Raptors are the linchpin in that my opponent really has to react to them AND the Grandhammers ability to put damage where I need it.

Thanks to PJetski I've really come around on Libs, and they fit perfectly in here to provide durable screens(even though I love the Vindictor models).

I also haven't picked a Stormhost, as I can't really decide between CW, CV, or KE.

If I went with Knights Excelsior, that frees me up to use the 345 points from the Liberators, but I really need them as screens. What I could do is drop a unit of Libs and Annihilators and bring a Celestant Prime, but that does drop me in wounds, although I get the 4+ ward. Also I'd really lose out on damage unless I kept the Prime upstairs until turn 3, but I would be doing that with a unit of Grandhammers anyway...

With Celestial Warbringers, getting a reroll on the Vanguard Raptors is a nice bonus, and even rerolling a save or hit/wound on the Grandhammers is a nice bonus, but the Celestial Vindicators is also very nice and usually seems to make it so 9 or 10 attacks get all the way through to the save rolls.

Lastly, it is tempting to go Shock and Awe for the Trait, just to keep the Grandhammers around a little longer after they drop in if anything can attack back, but being able to almost guarantee Translocate on the Raptors might be too valuable, and also make endgame moves for objectives.

Anyway, if you've made it this far, thanks a lot. Any advice or thoughts is appreciated. I don't think it's going to be a hyper-competitive event, but I wouldn't be surprised to see Be'Lakor Teclis, Maw Krusha, etc. I feel like if I can take those big pieces out early, my path to victory will be much easier.

Quick edit for the Incantor, I figure to go with one of those spells because shes really just there for the dispell, and I don't think I really need + to wound in this army. Also my Grand Strategy would be Pillars of Belief.

Edited November 15, 2021 by Chronos

[CommissarRotke]

Always interesting seeing the AOS metawatches 

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/11/16/metawatch-orruk-warclans-and-stormcast-eternals-ride-their-new-battletomes-up-the-rankings/

[Andrethegreat]

I like to use named hero's but I have a hard time keeping them safe, can't give them mirrorshield or something like. so! my question is, do it makes good sense to take named hero's in a Sormcast list? 

Edited November 16, 2021 by Andrethegreat

[Sir Mercury]

Well yes let's do this...

DRAGRACE ETERNAL
- Stormhost: Hammers of Sigmar
- Grand Strategy: Beast Master
Leaders
Lord-Celestant on Stardrake (500)
- General
- Celestine Hammer
- Command Trait: Master of the Celestial Menagerie
- Artefact: Amulet of Destiny (Universal Artefact)
Lord-Celestant on Stardrake (500)
- Celestine Hammer
- Mount Trait: Light of the Young Stars
Lord-Celestant on Dracoth (215)**
- Stormstrike Glaive & Thundershield

Battleline
2 x Dracothian Guard Concussors (220)*
2 x Dracothian Guard Concussors (220)*
2 x Dracothian Guard Fulminators (230)*
1 x Dracothian Guard Fulminators - Single (115)**

Core Battalions
*Hunters of the Heartlands
**Vanguard

Total: 2000 / 2000
Reinforced Units: 0 / 4
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 84
Drops: 7
 

[CommissarRotke]

18 hours ago, Andrethegreat said:

I like to use named hero's but I have a hard time keeping them safe, can't give them mirrorshield or something like. so! my question is, do it makes good sense to take named hero's in a Sormcast list? 

That's what Praetors are for

[Chronos]

I think after that giant post, I'm going to go with 6 and 3 Raptors instead of 3x3 Annihilators. Just gives so many options to take out key pieces in tough lists, although I don't know if that's too much for the tournament.

Has anyone tried using 9 Raptors? Did you make room for Aetherwings? Translocating them up in range for turn 1 could be worth it.

[Lucur]

General consensus seems to be 6 Raptors suffice to take out key targets with thunderbolt volley. Rather go for a second threat, ideally melee based, and fill the rest with support pieces and bodies.

[Chronos]

1 hour ago, Lucur said:

General consensus seems to be 6 Raptors suffice to take out key targets with thunderbolt volley. Rather go for a second threat, ideally melee based, and fill the rest with support pieces and bodies.

Yeah, doing the math though it takes a lot to take out some key pieces.

First Prince, if I wanted to take out the Daemon Prince it can very likely take a combined amount of shooting from 9 Raptors.

Maw Krusha with a 3+/5++ will take on average the TV from 6, and shooting from another 9 to kill in one go.

Teclis as well would take a lot as he easily could have a 2+, although I think I could dispell his 5++.

You're probably right though, that it makes sense to diversify more, but with all the big baddies I would hate to almost kill one.

[feadair]

3 hours ago, Chronos said:

Yeah, doing the math though it takes a lot to take out some key pieces.

First Prince, if I wanted to take out the Daemon Prince it can very likely take a combined amount of shooting from 9 Raptors.

Maw Krusha with a 3+/5++ will take on average the TV from 6, and shooting from another 9 to kill in one go.

Teclis as well would take a lot as he easily could have a 2+, although I think I could dispell his 5++.

You're probably right though, that it makes sense to diversify more, but with all the big baddies I would hate to almost kill one.

Six seems right to me and is the most common way to play them, but the 6+3 configuration has seen some tournament success as well.

[peasant]

Hi! I want to start a 2nd army and really LOVE the anhilators miniatures, what do you think of a knights excelsiors all anhilators army?

[Kaptinskaggy]

41 minutes ago, peasant said:

Hi! I want to start a 2nd army and really LOVE the anhilators miniatures, what do you think of a knights excelsiors all anhilators army?

Potentially punchy but very vulnerable to mortal wounds and slow - not a lot of models/wounds and the 7" deep strike can only happen once a turn (assuming you bring an imperatant and not some other leader) so you'll have to deploy a fair number of the annihilators you bring on the ground from the get-go and watch them trundle up the board 4" a turn.

It could be a cool list in a more casual setting for sure if you like the models but the competitive strength of Stormcast is in versatility and fielding a variety of threats. 

[peasant]

22 minutes ago, Kaptinskaggy said:

Potentially punchy but very vulnerable to mortal wounds and slow - not a lot of models/wounds and the 7" deep strike can only happen once a turn (assuming you bring an imperatant and not some other leader) so you'll have to deploy a fair number of the annihilators you bring on the ground from the get-go and watch them trundle up the board 4" a turn.

It could be a cool list in a more casual setting for sure if you like the models but the competitive strength of Stormcast is in versatility and fielding a variety of threats. 

You made very good points, maybe I Will give a try with proxys.

Thanks mate!

[lare2]

Good game last night against my bogey opponent, Soulblight. Got the win and happy with how my list is developing. It's pretty much everything I wanted when moving over to SCE - an elite force which just smashes face, fits comfortably into 1 box, and (importantly) doesn't destroy my back when playing. 

6 Longstrike are just oppressive though - point and click every turn. 1st turn, wiped out a VLoZD with mystic shield and amulet, 2nd turn Radukar, 3rd Mannfred. I try building lists without them but always seem to rotate back round to them. List below:

Knights Excelsior 

Battalions: Warlord, Redemption, Hunters

Knight Incantor - Lightning Blast 

Lord Imperatant - Arcane Tome, Chain Lightning 

Lord Relictor - High Priest, Translocation 

Vindictors x5 (ordinarily these would be libs but I couldn't be bothered to dig them out)

Skinks 2x10

Grandhammers 3x3

Aetherwings x3

Longstrike x6 

 

[Chronos]

5 hours ago, lare2 said:

Good game last night against my bogey opponent, Soulblight. Got the win and happy with how my list is developing. It's pretty much everything I wanted when moving over to SCE - an elite force which just smashes face, fits comfortably into 1 box, and (importantly) doesn't destroy my back when playing. 

6 Longstrike are just oppressive though - point and click every turn. 1st turn, wiped out a VLoZD with mystic shield and amulet, 2nd turn Radukar, 3rd Mannfred. I try building lists without them but always seem to rotate back round to them. List below:

Knights Excelsior 

Battalions: Warlord, Redemption, Hunters

Knight Incantor - Lightning Blast 

Lord Imperatant - Arcane Tome, Chain Lightning 

Lord Relictor - High Priest, Translocation 

Vindictors x5 (ordinarily these would be libs but I couldn't be bothered to dig them out)

Skinks 2x10

Grandhammers 3x3

Aetherwings x3

Longstrike x6 

 

Hey, similar to the lists I've been thinking minus the skinks.

You found using the 3x3 Annhilators worked pretty well? Did you drop each unit per turn and it felt like you were able to really pick their fights?

I'm curious about the skinks, were they used as mobile chaff and screens? And did teleporting the Aetherwings work well? I'm guessing you had Thunderbolt Volley?

Grats on the win!

[lare2]

16 minutes ago, Chronos said:

You found using the 3x3 Annhilators worked pretty well? Did you drop each unit per turn and it felt like you were able to really pick their fights?

They're great. I try to bring them down so that they'd be able to charge the Longstrike's target, in case they fail. The Longstrikenever did though so it's good to make sure they can also charge something else. They come down 1 unit per turn. The fear of them coming in really messes up the enemy's movement for the 1st 3 turns. My biggest concern is the 1st turn drop though as there's a potential that they might only be able to target chaff. Hasn't happened to me yet though. With the Longstrike being at the back with the heroes and Vindictors, deleting things, they have to come and try to deal with you. As they come though, they're just getting massive chunky hammers dropped on them.

22 minutes ago, Chronos said:

I'm curious about the skinks, were they used as mobile chaff and screens?

Yep, pretty much. I'm actually not that big of a fan of our standard battleline. 5 of anything will die... it may as well be skinks. They did the job great, zoning out my flanks and rear. They were generally ignored and zoomed in, in the later game to claim objectives. 

24 minutes ago, Chronos said:

And did teleporting the Aetherwings work well? I'm guessing you had Thunderbolt Volley?

Worked great. Teleported them 1st turn to the far corner. This covered a lot of his army. I did run TV - it's super powerful. The combination of Aetherwings and TV were what popped the VLoZD 1st turn. My Longstrike never leave home without them. Plus, everyone seems to forget the birds are there. Even I did when the Longstrike's gaze turned elsewhere. Remembered late on though and Translocated the Relictor to them late game to score that Battle Tactic (forget its name - 2 units in enemy turf).

[Chronos]

28 minutes ago, lare2 said:

They're great. I try to bring them down so that they'd be able to charge the Longstrike's target, in case they fail. The Longstrikenever did though so it's good to make sure they can also charge something else. They come down 1 unit per turn. The fear of them coming in really messes up the enemy's movement for the 1st 3 turns. My biggest concern is the 1st turn drop though as there's a potential that they might only be able to target chaff. Hasn't happened to me yet though. With the Longstrike being at the back with the heroes and Vindictors, deleting things, they have to come and try to deal with you. As they come though, they're just getting massive chunky hammers dropped on them.

Yep, pretty much. I'm actually not that big of a fan of our standard battleline. 5 of anything will die... it may as well be skinks. They did the job great, zoning out my flanks and rear. They were generally ignored and zoomed in, in the later game to claim objectives. 

Worked great. Teleported them 1st turn to the far corner. This covered a lot of his army. I did run TV - it's super powerful. The combination of Aetherwings and TV were what popped the VLoZD 1st turn. My Longstrike never leave home without them. Plus, everyone seems to forget the birds are there. Even I did when the Longstrike's gaze turned elsewhere. Remembered late on though and Translocated the Relictor to them late game to score that Battle Tactic (forget its name - 2 units in enemy turf).

This is great, thanks! I've been trying to fit in more bodies in the battleline slot AND the Aetherwings and I just was never comfortable with only two units of Libs or Vinds, but I never considered the Skinks! That really fills an area of need big time in our similar lists. I'm going to my FLGS today and grabbing a box.

I'm curious, do you keep you Lord Imperatant in the sky until your movement phase turn 1? If so, one of the things I've worried about is dropping him and him getting sniped off turn two or three before the other two units of Grandhammers get dropped, but I suppose he is pretty tough with 7 wounds and would be -1 to hit if he can get Look Out Sir. And I guess if they are shooting at him they aren't shooting more valuable units.

I also really like having Lightning Blast and Chain Lightning to splash some mortal wounds around if you aren't going to Mystic Shield, which in this army isn't really that important I guess.

Last question is, the Skinks can go in the Redemption Battalion?

 

[Sagittarii Orientalis]

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/11/19/dragons-are-on-their-way-but-not-before-a-quick-balance-pass/

So the models that were not even released along with the battletome is found to be too strong, according to Studio's extra playtesting.

 

And the Studio bumped the stormdrake guards' point to 340 from 285. 

 

Now, I do not totally disagree with the points increase on the stormdrake guard, although stunning 55 points increase might be debatable.

 

But their decision does make me wonder: if they were enthusiastic enough to drastically adjust points on models that have yet to see tournament plays, how come they are so slow to apply changes to factions/models that are already overperforming for months? You know, Lumineth Sentinels for example?

 

The rules designers maybe doing their best for the balance of the game, but what they have done effectively through this action is making me lose faith in their capabilities.

Edited November 19, 2021 by Sagittarii Orientalis

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

2 minutes ago, Sagittarii Orientalis said:

But their decision does make me wonder: if they were enthusiastic enough to drastically adjust points on models that are yet to see tournament plays, how come they are so slow to apply changes to factions/models that are already overperforming for months? You know, Lumineth Sentinels for example?

The article gives us at least some sort of justification: Dragons along with other stuff were adjusted for an upcoming December FAQ/balance patch, but they are letting everyone know early because they know people are poised to jump on the Stormdrake Guard models once they become available.

As for Sentinels, I suppose we could argue that Covid and the edition change delayed their first balancing passes. Those two factors resulted in the AoS winter FAQ being skipped last year, after all. However, I suspect the real reason is that Sentinels are just working as intended. Their relatively mild point increase in the post 3.0 FAQ suggests this. They are probably just supposed to be an overperormer in their role. Since they can't be spammed effectively anymore, maybe the rules team thinks they are fine now.

[Sagittarii Orientalis]

1 minute ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

As for Sentinels, I suppose we could argue that Covid and the edition change delayed their first balancing passes. Those two factors resulted in the AoS winter FAQ being skipped last year, after all. However, I suspect the real reason is that Sentinels are just working as intended. Their relatively mild point increase in the post 3.0 FAQ suggests this. They are probably just supposed to be an overperormer in their role. Since they can't be spammed effectively anymore, maybe the rules team thinks they are fine now.

Then all the more reasons for me to doubt their competence and/or "equitableness" towards various factions. I do not think I have ever witnessed massive points nerf on models that are yet to be released, let alone accumulate enough data on competitive scenes. 

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

5 minutes ago, Sagittarii Orientalis said:

Then all the more reasons for me to doubt their competence and/or "equitableness" towards various factions. I do not think I have ever witnessed massive points nerf on models that are yet to be released, let alone accumulate enough data on competitive scenes. 

Although from another perspective, if they are going to massively points-nerf dragons, it's better to do it now before they are in people's hands. I think a lot points towards them actually being too good. At least from what I hear from people's test games. It also doesn't help that the all-Stormdrake build is one of the most obviously good ones in the book.

[PJetski]

7 minutes ago, Sagittarii Orientalis said:

Then all the more reasons for me to doubt their competence and/or "equitableness" towards various factions. I do not think I have ever witnessed massive points nerf on models that are yet to be released, let alone accumulate enough data on competitive scenes. 

GW has never been, and will never be, competent

If you want a balanced and/or competitive game I suggest you look to other companies or other mediums (like video games)

[stato]

8 minutes ago, Sagittarii Orientalis said:

Then all the more reasons for me to doubt their competence and/or "equitableness" towards various factions. I do not think I have ever witnessed massive points nerf on models that are yet to be released, let alone accumulate enough data on competitive scenes. 

Dont forget points are set many months before the book even goes to print nevermind gets into our hands, so its likely many point adjustments we see at the first FAQ have been known are needed for quite some time.  In this case it looks like the FAQ may drop not long after the dragons, so they are cutting down on the hate from people buying 12 and not being able to use them, on what would otherwise be a quiet friday.