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Stormcast Eternals 3.0 - There is no "a" in Vindictors


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1 hour ago, Andrethegreat said:

 

Ok, then it is a no. just wanted to make sure I could do before I do it in a game, can I use it on him? 

yes he can redeploy himself (and this he can do even if you army is not Hammers of Sigmar)

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Had a great game last night against Hallowed Knights. I ran Celestial Vindicators. Got the win but it was just carnage. Key points I took away from it: Gardus was a beast (stood up to my Stardrake for 3 rounds), the Stardrake is really just an anvil (especially with Menagerie and amulet... and when you whiff your dice hard), 5 Vindictors can kill the Prime (I was both shocked and cried a little), and translocation and cogs works well together. 

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4 hours ago, lare2 said:

Had a great game last night against Hallowed Knights. I ran Celestial Vindicators. Got the win but it was just carnage. Key points I took away from it: Gardus was a beast (stood up to my Stardrake for 3 rounds), the Stardrake is really just an anvil (especially with Menagerie and amulet... and when you whiff your dice hard), 5 Vindictors can kill the Prime (I was both shocked and cried a little), and translocation and cogs works well together. 

Which prime... the Celestant Prime? I just did the math and on average they do just under 2 damage. Assuming he doesn't choose to re-roll a save, which would make it a hair less than 1 damage. They would have to roll incredibly hot and he'd have to beef it for that to be a potential outcome - the more likely one is he hoses them all instantly before they get to swing.

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7 minutes ago, NauticalSoup said:

Which prime... the Celestant Prime?

Yep. I can't remember the specifics but he rolled hot, getting 6s, and I rolled rubbish to save. I then swung back and killed a number... he then rolled well and exploded a lot in my face... and I rolled rubbish again to save. To be honest, my rolling all night was woeful, despite the win. 

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Did anyone play 1000pts games with the new book? I am hoping to get some games going but I was hoping I can get some directions in list building.

6 longstrike raptors or 6 grandhammers seem to be quite common in 2000pts lists. I was wondering if someone had tried one or the other in 1000pts. Or some fulminators?

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20 minutes ago, Wrathful said:

Did anyone play 1000pts games with the new book? I am hoping to get some games going but I was hoping I can get some directions in list building.

6 longstrike raptors or 6 grandhammers seem to be quite common in 2000pts lists. I was wondering if someone had tried one or the other in 1000pts. Or some fulminators?

I do, but I mainly play with my clubmates in relatively relaxed games. I'll post some lists later but the 6 raptors / 6 grandhammers would be too skewed for my context so I never used them -I did use 2 fulminators though, and they are of course very good.

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20 minutes ago, Wrathful said:

Did anyone play 1000pts games with the new book? I am hoping to get some games going but I was hoping I can get some directions in list building.

6 longstrike raptors or 6 grandhammers seem to be quite common in 2000pts lists. I was wondering if someone had tried one or the other in 1000pts. Or some fulminators?

I'm sure both would work at 1k, backed up by liberators and fulminators. If I'm playing 1k it's usually ultra newbie casual so I'm usually not bringing top table stuff.

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Just now, Marcvs said:

I do, but I mainly play with my clubmates in relatively relaxed games. I'll post some lists later but the 6 raptors / 6 grandhammers would be too skewed for my context so I never used them -I did use 2 fulminators though, and they are of course very good.

Nice! I would love to have some input on some lists and how the games went!

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13 minutes ago, Wrathful said:

6 longstrike raptors or 6 grandhammers seem to be quite common in 2000pts lists. I was wondering if someone had tried one or the other in 1000pts. Or some fulminators?

Okay, so this is just pure conjecture on my part, but I feel like 6 longstrikes in a 1000 point game is going to be very rocket tag. By which I mean a maxed unit of longstrikes is half your army at that scale and it's only 12 wounds on a 4+ save, so yes you will likely be able to annihilate something good turn 1 with a Thunderstrike Volley, but that's predicated on you getting to act first.

My instinct is that if you don't get to take out a good chunk of your opponent's army before they have a chance to really act, the Longstrikes won't be able to hold an objective particularly well when challenged (unless you get particularly lucky with an Unleash Hell). Then you're left with ~250 points of battleline, ~150 points for a general, and somewhere around 100-200 points to either add one small unit or bulk up your other choices. You'd need to be able to really push against enemy objectives with that remaining 500 points.

On the other hand, I think Annihilators or Fulminators feel a lot safer as a choice. They're much tankier, they're melee, they can be up the board quickly, and they're also both conditional battleline which gives you a lot more freedom with your list building.

As I said though, conjecture for my part. It could well be that you can reliably get the longstrikes to eradicate enough of your enemy that it's worth the downsides.

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11 minutes ago, NauticalSoup said:

I'm sure both would work at 1k, backed up by liberators and fulminators. If I'm playing 1k it's usually ultra newbie casual so I'm usually not bringing top table stuff.

Yeah 1000pts for a elite army like stormcast it’s a  little bit hard to sqeeze top table stuff. But my oponent will be fielding 20 sentinels and that scares me a bit 🤣

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6 minutes ago, Dogmantra said:

Okay, so this is just pure conjecture on my part, but I feel like 6 longstrikes in a 1000 point game is going to be very rocket tag. By which I mean a maxed unit of longstrikes is half your army at that scale and it's only 12 wounds on a 4+ save, so yes you will likely be able to annihilate something good turn 1 with a Thunderstrike Volley, but that's predicated on you getting to act first.

My instinct is that if you don't get to take out a good chunk of your opponent's army before they have a chance to really act, the Longstrikes won't be able to hold an objective particularly well when challenged (unless you get particularly lucky with an Unleash Hell). Then you're left with ~250 points of battleline, ~150 points for a general, and somewhere around 100-200 points to either add one small unit or bulk up your other choices. You'd need to be able to really push against enemy objectives with that remaining 500 points.

On the other hand, I think Annihilators or Fulminators feel a lot safer as a choice. They're much tankier, they're melee, they can be up the board quickly, and they're also both conditional battleline which gives you a lot more freedom with your list building.

As I said though, conjecture for my part. It could well be that you can reliably get the longstrikes to eradicate enough of your enemy that it's worth the downsides.

Yeah I don’t know if the long strikes would be able to clear out a lot of my opponent army. I was thinking about them to try to clear out 20 sentinels. But then there is the rest of the army…

thanks for the input! It’s really helpful!

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2 hours ago, Wrathful said:

Did anyone play 1000pts games with the new book? I am hoping to get some games going but I was hoping I can get some directions in list building.

6 longstrike raptors or 6 grandhammers seem to be quite common in 2000pts lists. I was wondering if someone had tried one or the other in 1000pts. Or some fulminators?

Ok so, as promised, here's the lists I played in the past couple of weeks:

Spoiler

Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals
- Stormhost: Hallowed Knights (Stormkeep)
- Mortal Realm: Aqshy
- Grand Strategy: Hold the Line
- Triumphs: Inspired
Gardus Steel Soul (160)*
Lord-Relictor (145)*
- General
- Command Trait: High Priest
- Artefact: Arcane Tome (Universal Artefact)
- Spell: Celestial Blades
- Prayer: Translocation
5 x Vindictors (130)*
5 x Vindictors (130)*
5 x Judicators with Skybolt Bows (200)*
2 x Dracothian Guard Fulminators (230)*
*Battle Regiment
Holy Command: Call for Aid

Total: 995 / 2000
Reinforced Units: 0 / 4
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 54
Drops: 1

Spoiler

Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals
- Stormhost: Celestial Warbringers
- Mortal Realm: Aqshy
- Grand Strategy: Hold the Line
- Triumphs:
Lord-Arcanum on Tauralon (285)
- General
- Command Trait: Master of Magic
- Artefact: Amulet of Destiny (Universal Artefact)
- Mount Trait: Scintillating Trail
5 x Sequitors (145)*
- Stormsmite Mauls and Soulshields
- 3x Stormsmite Greatmaces
5 x Sequitors (145)
- Stormsmite Mauls and Soulshields
- 3x Stormsmite Greatmaces
5 x Sequitors (145)
- Stormsmite Mauls and Soulshields
- 3x Stormsmite Greatmaces
Celestar Ballista (140)*
Celestar Ballista (140)*
*Grand Battery
Holy Command: Call for Aid

Total: 1000 / 2000
Reinforced Units: 0 / 4
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 60
Drops: 6

Spoiler

- Stormhost: Hallowed Knights (Stormkeep)
- Grand Strategy: Hold the Line
- Triumphs: Inspired

Gardus Steel Soul (160)*
Knight-Judicator with Gryph-Hounds (205)*
- General
- Command Trait: Master of Magic
- Artefact: Arcane Tome (Universal Artefact)
- Spell: Thundershock
5 x Vindictors (130)*
5 x Vindictors (130)*
5 x Vindictors (130)*
2 x Dracothian Guard Fulminators (230)*
*Battle Regiment
Holy Command: Call for Aid

Total: 985 / 2000
Reinforced Units: 0 / 4
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 54
Drops: 1

Incidentally, tomorrow we go for 1500pts and with a monster mash theme (and only 2 battlelines) so I will play this:

Spoiler

Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals
- Stormhost: Celestial Warbringers (Stormkeep)
- Mortal Realm: Aqshy
- Grand Strategy: Beast Master
- Triumphs:
Lord-Celestant on Stardrake (500)*
- General
- Celestine Hammer
- Command Trait: Master of the Celestial Menagerie
- Artefact: Amulet of Destiny (Universal Artefact)
- Mount Trait: Celestial Instincts
Lord-Celestant on Stardrake (500)
- Celestine Hammer
- Artefact: Arcane Tome (Universal Artefact)
- Universal Spell Lore: Flaming Weapon
Lord-Castellant (155)*
Battlemage (115)*
- Mortal Realm: Hysh
- Universal Spell Lore: Levitate
- Allies
5 x Liberators (115)*
- Heavens-wrought Weapon and Shield
- 1x Grandweapons
5 x Liberators (115)**
- Heavens-wrought Weapon and Shield
- 1x Grandweapons
*Warlord
**Vanguard

Holy Command: Call for Aid

Total: 1500 / 2000
Reinforced Units: 0 / 4
Allies: 115 / 400
Wounds: 69
Drops: 6

 

Edited by Marcvs
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1000 point games (or smaller) generally require either a gentleman's agreement to try and avoid skewing the format*, or an understanding that everyone's going to be as cuttthroat as possible, and probably some form of "sideboard" or other reactive list modification.

*A blanket ban on any unit >250 points isn't foolproof, but probably keeps most of the game warping stuff out with minimal collateral damage** at 1000 points. at 500-750... I dunno.

** But that bans Sons of Behemat, Squark! ... Yes. They fall under the category of game warping. Dealing with the DPS check of Mega Gargants will require a fair bit of tailoring.

Edited by Squark
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2 hours ago, Marcvs said:

Ok so, as promised, here's the lists I played in the past couple of weeks:

  Hide contents

Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals
- Stormhost: Hallowed Knights (Stormkeep)
- Mortal Realm: Aqshy
- Grand Strategy: Hold the Line
- Triumphs: Inspired
Gardus Steel Soul (160)*
Lord-Relictor (145)*
- General
- Command Trait: High Priest
- Artefact: Arcane Tome (Universal Artefact)
- Spell: Celestial Blades
- Prayer: Translocation
5 x Vindictors (130)*
5 x Vindictors (130)*
5 x Judicators with Skybolt Bows (200)*
2 x Dracothian Guard Fulminators (230)*
*Battle Regiment
Holy Command: Call for Aid

Total: 995 / 2000
Reinforced Units: 0 / 4
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 54
Drops: 1

  Hide contents

Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals
- Stormhost: Celestial Warbringers
- Mortal Realm: Aqshy
- Grand Strategy: Hold the Line
- Triumphs:
Lord-Arcanum on Tauralon (285)
- General
- Command Trait: Master of Magic
- Artefact: Amulet of Destiny (Universal Artefact)
- Mount Trait: Scintillating Trail
5 x Sequitors (145)*
- Stormsmite Mauls and Soulshields
- 3x Stormsmite Greatmaces
5 x Sequitors (145)
- Stormsmite Mauls and Soulshields
- 3x Stormsmite Greatmaces
5 x Sequitors (145)
- Stormsmite Mauls and Soulshields
- 3x Stormsmite Greatmaces
Celestar Ballista (140)*
Celestar Ballista (140)*
*Grand Battery
Holy Command: Call for Aid

Total: 1000 / 2000
Reinforced Units: 0 / 4
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 60
Drops: 6

  Hide contents

- Stormhost: Hallowed Knights (Stormkeep)
- Grand Strategy: Hold the Line
- Triumphs: Inspired

Gardus Steel Soul (160)*
Knight-Judicator with Gryph-Hounds (205)*
- General
- Command Trait: Master of Magic
- Artefact: Arcane Tome (Universal Artefact)
- Spell: Thundershock
5 x Vindictors (130)*
5 x Vindictors (130)*
5 x Vindictors (130)*
2 x Dracothian Guard Fulminators (230)*
*Battle Regiment
Holy Command: Call for Aid

Total: 985 / 2000
Reinforced Units: 0 / 4
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 54
Drops: 1

Incidentally, tomorrow we go for 1500pts and with a monster mash theme (and only 2 battlelines) so I will play this:

  Hide contents

Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals
- Stormhost: Celestial Warbringers (Stormkeep)
- Mortal Realm: Aqshy
- Grand Strategy: Beast Master
- Triumphs:
Lord-Celestant on Stardrake (500)*
- General
- Celestine Hammer
- Command Trait: Master of the Celestial Menagerie
- Artefact: Amulet of Destiny (Universal Artefact)
- Mount Trait: Celestial Instincts
Lord-Celestant on Stardrake (500)
- Celestine Hammer
- Artefact: Arcane Tome (Universal Artefact)
- Universal Spell Lore: Flaming Weapon
Lord-Castellant (155)*
Battlemage (115)*
- Mortal Realm: Hysh
- Universal Spell Lore: Levitate
- Allies
5 x Liberators (115)*
- Heavens-wrought Weapon and Shield
- 1x Grandweapons
5 x Liberators (115)**
- Heavens-wrought Weapon and Shield
- 1x Grandweapons
*Warlord
**Vanguard

Holy Command: Call for Aid

Total: 1500 / 2000
Reinforced Units: 0 / 4
Allies: 115 / 400
Wounds: 69
Drops: 6

 

Yess! Thanks for the ideas! I was already converti g a normal lord celestant into gardus so I think I will try something like the first list!

 

46 minutes ago, Squark said:

1000 point games (or smaller) generally require either a gentleman's agreement to try and avoid skewing the format*, or an understanding that everyone's going to be as cuttthroat as possible, and probably some form of "sideboard" or other reactive list modification.

*A blanket ban on any unit >250 points isn't foolproof, but probably keeps most of the game warping stuff out with minimal collateral damage** at 1000 points. at 500-750... I dunno.

** But that bans Sons of Behemat, Squark! ... Yes. They fall under the category of game warping. Dealing with the DPS check of Mega Gargants will require a fair bit of tailoring.

These are some cool ideas! Thanks. We agreed no units >500pts but will probably bring it down to 250. Thanks!

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5 minutes ago, Wrathful said:

Yess! Thanks for the ideas! I was already converti g a normal lord celestant into gardus so I think I will try something like the first list!

 

These are some cool ideas! Thanks. We agreed no units >500pts but will probably bring it down to 250. Thanks!

in a stormcast perspective I would use 300 as a limit (we used it before agreeing on the monster mash for this week). It still allows you to bring a monster (a tauralon) and reinforce at least some redeemer units other than liberators :D

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1 hour ago, Marcvs said:

in a stormcast perspective I would use 300 as a limit (we used it before agreeing on the monster mash for this week). It still allows you to bring a monster (a tauralon) and reinforce at least some redeemer units other than liberators :D

Yeah. Better to reinforce vindictors rather than liberators.

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For 1k games, I like running the following:

Hammers of Sigmar:
Lord-Arcanum on Dracoline
2x Fulminators
2x Fulminators
3x Evocators on Dracolines

At 1k, you don't really have to worry about someone coming in with Kroak, or any of the big gods, which means you can actually play the magic game.  Additionally, few people have hammers big enough to just delete you, which gives you a chance to let a small squad of units shine.  If you want to lower the power of this list by a little bit, swap the Fulminators for Concussors or Tempestors.

Going heavy on shooting at this level tends to leave me feeling a little thin, and the fewer units and more space means that stormcast infantry suffer from not being able to really get into combat.  Additionally, this army still maintains the "Elite" feel of stormcast, without any one unit feeling particularly overwhelming.  Finally, it doesn't leave me getting models for an army that I don't really want to play in higher point games (I still run dracolines... just not when I'm going all out competitively).

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2 hours ago, readercolin said:

For 1k games, I like running the following:

Hammers of Sigmar:
Lord-Arcanum on Dracoline
2x Fulminators
2x Fulminators
3x Evocators on Dracolines

I'd be so tempted to bring Astreia in that list but I totally get why you'd go for the generic LA. I've recently been trying Astreia in Hammers with Evos on Dracs and the +1 save and 6+ ward go a long way to help them not die to a stiff breeze. It's a shame to lose out on the one extra claw attack for each evocator, but I think overall it seems worth it so far. Of course, this trying Astreia has been in 2000 point games where I have another hero to put a mount trait on.

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12 hours ago, readercolin said:

For 1k games, I like running the following:

Hammers of Sigmar:
Lord-Arcanum on Dracoline
2x Fulminators
2x Fulminators
3x Evocators on Dracolines

This is awesome! I would love to do something like this! I don’t currently own evocators on dracolines. Just the foot ones. So will probably buy some dragons when they come out to try something like this.

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20 hours ago, Marcvs said:

in a stormcast perspective I would use 300 as a limit (we used it before agreeing on the monster mash for this week). It still allows you to bring a monster (a tauralon) and reinforce at least some redeemer units other than liberators :D

We don't have many problematic units at 300, but other armies certainly do. And I actually would argue that reinforced Vindictors are a problem unit at 1k; Certain armies struggle to deal with 5 Vindictors with All out defense at low points; They will be miserable dealing with a blob of 10 just begging for a mystic shield/warding lantern on top of that.

And while they may not be out yet, Stormdrake Guard will be very hard to deal with at 1k points.

Edited by Squark
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Look like Dominion is no longer on the GW site.

-

I ended up with a draw yesterday playing our first practice game for a doubles tournament in December. Took 5 hours so managing time is something we definitely need to work on! We played tectonic interference.

My 1K list is below, I paired up with a KO player using an Endrinmaster, Aether-khemist, Admiral, 2x 10 Arkanauts, 5 Thunderers in a Gunhauler, 3 Endrinriggers and a bottled shackles endless spell. My assumption being that whereas normally you'd have raptors softening up the target for the fulminators, the KO could do it instead.

We were fighting 2 Kraken-Eaters and a KB force consisting of a 1 Killaboss on Great Gnashtoof, Shaman, 2x10 Gutrippaz, 10 Hobgrots, 3 Boltboyz and 1 Killbow.

Some highlights:

  • took down a kraken-eater on round 1, who promptly landed on the KB's shooting units
  • Bastian one-shotted the Killaboss
  • The kraken-eater general, using roar and a pair of magic sandals, one-shotted Bastian
  • We destroyed all the kruleboyz and the SCE ended with just the incantor alive
  • We drew the game by having 2 arkanauts to spare. The Kraken-eater general, who also had the 5+ amulet ended the game on 2 wounds. Had either of those units been killed, one of us wouldn't have been able to complete our grand strategy and lost

We made some mistakes along the way and my opponent quickly realised that roaring and tagging the fulminators so they couldn't charge blunted them a fair bit. Whilst Steadfast March allowed us to get a turn 1 charge off, which resulted in much of the damage to the first kraken-eater, losing the liberators meant Bastian was very exposed and so call to aid might have been more beneficial.

In hindsight, I needed to use redeploy more to get the fulminators in a position where I could charge again. I tried to rally them in 2 turns and both times rolled a 4. Requiring a 6 feels just too unlikely at the cost of a command point.

Looking at some of the recent lists in this thread, I don't think my army selection is too far off. Again, Call to Aid might be a better choice. I was wondering about whether I should:

  • switch 1 of the units of fulminators to Raptors to augment the KO shooting, which was incredibly swingy.
  • Switch the Incantor to a vexillor to help redeploy the fulminators and save 5 points for a triumph, or I need to find 20 points for a relictor with translocation.
  • Sacrifice the 1 drop for a hunters battalion to protect the fulminators from roar, but then I don't have enough units for any other core battalion

Thoughts?

List 1 - Stormkeep

Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals
- Stormhost: Hammers of Sigmar
- Grand Strategy: Hold the Line
- Triumphs:

Leaders
Lord-Commander Bastian Carthalos (300)*
Knight-Incantor (125)*
- General
- Command Trait: Master of Magic
- Artefact: Arcane Tome (Universal Artefact)
- Spell: Celestial Blades

Battleline
2 x Dracothian Guard Fulminators (230)*
2 x Dracothian Guard Fulminators (230)*
5 x Liberators (115)*
- Heavens-wrought Weapon and Shield
- 1x Grandweapons

Core Battalions
*Battle Regiment

Additional Enhancements
Holy Command: Steadfast March

Total: 1000 / 1000
Reinforced Units: 0 / 2
Allies: 0 / 200
Wounds: 47
Drops: 1

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