Stormcast Eternals 3.0 - There is no "a" in Vindictors

[stato]

Personally I prefer Hero buffs like translocation to be muted somewhat, it allows faction points to be better balanced and based on the unit ability (at the next GHB points rebalance), than based on how much value they are when buffed.  Otherwise using the unit without going for the obvious buff makes them less points effective for those of us just not optimizing to the max.

 

[Phasteon]

We all knew translocation would get fixed, it was such a standout autotake ability that completely ruined the internal balance. 

Same goes for the menagerie trait. 

Its crazy how anyone can cry about those changes. 

[stus67]

The cycles errata from the app was added to the FAQ in a "revision" update.

Quote

, Cycle of the Storm Change the rule to: ‘Once per turn, before you allocate a wound or mortal wound to another friendly Stormcast Eternals unit within 18" of this unit, and that wound or mortal wound would cause a model in that unit to be slain, you can say that this unit will capture and return that warrior’s soul. If you do so, that wound or mortal wound is negated.’

 

[PJetski]

4 minutes ago, stus67 said:

The cycles errata from the app was added to the FAQ in a "revision" update.

 

It prevents 1 wound but only if you were to die anyway

So it does nothing if you take wounds but don't die, and nothing if you take any amount of overkill. It only does anything if you take exactly enough damage to kill you

Edited October 20, 2021 by PJetski

[Andrethegreat]

7 hours ago, stato said:

Be interested to hear what you think is good about it.  I have a love of Prosecutors but they dont seem to be as good this battletome sadly.

what I like about the list is the fact that I can shoot peoples armies off the table, the two games that I played, I shot my opponents armies to pieces, by the time the games was over my opponents only had one model on the table. The Stardrake was never touched by my opponents, had all 18 wounds, I know the list looks a little weak, So, I'm not sure if I should keep working on it, I'm also trying to find what makes a good hammer and what units make a good anvil?           

[CommissarRotke]

27 minutes ago, Phasteon said:

We all knew translocation would get fixed, it was such a standout autotake ability that completely ruined the internal balance. 

Same goes for the menagerie trait. 

Its crazy how anyone can cry about those changes. 

I think people would be less upset if a ton of our other movement abilities weren't gutted, which is what pushed lists towards Translocation to begin with... regardless of being able to move after it or not

[boyadventurer]

So you can't even Blaze with Cycle now right? Well, that was a fun one game I got in with Aventis...

[Ragest]

32 minutes ago, Phasteon said:

We all knew translocation would get fixed, it was such a standout autotake ability that completely ruined the internal balance. 

Same goes for the menagerie trait. 

Its crazy how anyone can cry about those changes. 

The internal balance is ruined since any Command Trait is useful and Imperatant just works with Thunderstrike.

[The Red King]

2 hours ago, Marcvs said:

personally, with "boring" I don't mean "there's only one list that can win". For me boring is more that there's no tricks left in the book, apart from a handful of new units (dragons moving in the hero phase, imperatant for the 7" deepstrike). Other than that, it's just a series of good pretty straightforward warscrolls (raptors, fulminators...).

Right now I miss playing (and never doing better than 3-2 in a serious tournament mind you!) with the Starcast list or going full Skyborne Slayers to drop some ****** units (the old warrior chamber) 5" away from the opponent. Maybe I just need to find something that speaks to me but I feel that there isn't much left to explore already.

I mean... that's stormcasts place in lore (winning through a series of pretty good straightforward warscrolls). Kruelboyz, skaven, tzeentch, these are tricky armies that win with tricks. Stormcast show up and challenge you to an a straight up fight and then beat you at it. That's their identity. If you're the kind of person who likes winning through complex interactions then I imagine they aren't really meant to be the army for you flavor wise. 

 

They don't use assassins or thieves or poison or anything in lore so it seems suitable to me. I don't plop my skaven down and feel let down when they can only win through massive amounts of bodies or unreliable explosions because that's WHY I play the army. This isnt meant to be a recrimination of your point. I'm just genuinely confused by the seemingly vast disconnect between how you want the army to play and how the army is portrayed in both lore and rules.

 

As to people complaining about the translocation "nerf" that was obviously meant to work like every other teleport or the auto take command trait or worst of all attacking the FAQ team for not agreeing with their incredibly contrived opinion of how a rule was meant to work remind me far too much of space marine players on Dakka saying that everytime xenos get a damage 2 weapon it's some grave insult and injustice that proves GW doesn't care about space marines!

 

[Dream]

Guys dont worry you can still move after you teleport! You just have to play a different army!

[PrimeElectrid]

1 hour ago, Phasteon said:

We all knew translocation would get fixed, it was such a standout autotake ability that completely ruined the internal balance. 

Same goes for the menagerie trait. 

Its crazy how anyone can cry about those changes. 

Internal balance is significantly worse. Here are the lists: gun line, dragon spam, and the risk takers living on the edge with an annihilator bomb. That’s it. Translocation opened up SCE melee builds that don’t go and have a drink at the bar when tooth and nail comes up.

59 minutes ago, The Red King said:

I mean... that's stormcasts place in lore (winning through a series of pretty good straightforward warscrolls). Kruelboyz, skaven, tzeentch, these are tricky armies that win with tricks. Stormcast show up and challenge you to an a straight up fight and then beat you at it. That's their identity. If you're the kind of person who likes winning through complex interactions then I imagine they aren't really meant to be the army for you flavor wise. 

 

They don't use assassins or thieves or poison or anything in lore so it seems suitable to me. I don't plop my skaven down and feel let down when they can only win through massive amounts of bodies or unreliable explosions because that's WHY I play the army. This isnt meant to be a recrimination of your point. I'm just genuinely confused by the seemingly vast disconnect between how you want the army to play and how the army is portrayed in both lore and rules.

 

As to people complaining about the translocation "nerf" that was obviously meant to work like every other teleport or the auto take command trait or worst of all attacking the FAQ team for not agreeing with their incredibly contrived opinion of how a rule was meant to work remind me far too much of space marine players on Dakka saying that everytime xenos get a damage 2 weapon it's some grave insult and injustice that proves GW doesn't care about space marines!

 

Good luck beating mega gargants in a straight up fight.

”Like every other teleport”, ah yes you mean like KO boats pregame fly high and move, or kruleboyz teleport 9” away pregame and move, or hand of gork teleport and mighty destroyers move, or tzeentch bridge and fate dice auto-9” and move, lot or living cities deep strike shoot and move, protection of nagash and move - or even like stormdrake translocation and hero phase move.

 

[Phasteon]

4 minutes ago, PrimeElectrid said:

Internal balance is significantly worse. Here are the lists: gun line, dragon spam, and the risk takers living on the edge with an annihilator bomb. That’s it. Translocation opened up SCE melee builds that don’t go and have a drink at the bar when tooth and nail comes up.

Good luck beating mega gargants in a straight up fight.

”Like every other teleport”, ah yes you mean like KO boats pregame fly high and move, or kruleboyz teleport 9” away pregame and move, or hand of gork teleport and mighty destroyers move, or tzeentch bridge and fate dice auto-9” and move, lot or living cities deep strike shoot and move, protection of nagash and move - or even like stormdrake translocation and hero phase move.

 

You could salt a ton of fries with that post. 

[The Red King]

10 minutes ago, PrimeElectrid said:

Internal balance is significantly worse. Here are the lists: gun line, dragon spam, and the risk takers living on the edge with an annihilator bomb. That’s it. Translocation opened up SCE melee builds that don’t go and have a drink at the bar when tooth and nail comes up.

Good luck beating mega gargants in a straight up fight.

”Like every other teleport”, ah yes you mean like KO boats pregame fly high and move, or kruleboyz teleport 9” away pregame and move, or hand of gork teleport and mighty destroyers move, or tzeentch bridge and fate dice auto-9” and move, lot or living cities deep strike shoot and move, protection of nagash and move - or even like stormdrake translocation and hero phase move.

 

Everything on that list is either once a game or requires other things to facilitate it. Nobody else has a teleport that does not specify they can't move afterwards is what I was saying. Except maybe Nagash cause I don't know his rules but he's pretty bad anyways as far as I know and it's a lot easier to balance one unit with the ability rather than one unit that can use the ability on any warscroll they put STORMCAST on.

I don't think KO boats should work the way they do if it helps. 

 

I'd also like to add that Mega-gargants are overtuned due to some rules interactions so if that's your yardstick you're going to find almost every army is terrible.

Edited October 20, 2021 by The Red King

[OkayestDM]

I'm a little sad about the ruling on Translocate, but I can live with it. I just wish that they had made Cycle the Storm a poor-man's version of Yndrasta's resurrection ability. A single model of 2 wounds or less returned to a unit wholly within range, or something similar. Would have been a whole lot simpler and offered a whole lot more utility to Lord Arcanums.

[Marcvs]

1 hour ago, The Red King said:

I mean... that's stormcasts place in lore (winning through a series of pretty good straightforward warscrolls). Kruelboyz, skaven, tzeentch, these are tricky armies that win with tricks. Stormcast show up and challenge you to an a straight up fight and then beat you at it. That's their identity. If you're the kind of person who likes winning through complex interactions then I imagine they aren't really meant to be the army for you flavor wise. 

 

They don't use assassins or thieves or poison or anything in lore so it seems suitable to me. I don't plop my skaven down and feel let down when they can only win through massive amounts of bodies or unreliable explosions because that's WHY I play the army. This isnt meant to be a recrimination of your point. I'm just genuinely confused by the seemingly vast disconnect between how you want the army to play and how the army is portrayed in both lore and rules.

 

As to people complaining about the translocation "nerf" that was obviously meant to work like every other teleport or the auto take command trait or worst of all attacking the FAQ team for not agreeing with their incredibly contrived opinion of how a rule was meant to work remind me far too much of space marine players on Dakka saying that everytime xenos get a damage 2 weapon it's some grave insult and injustice that proves GW doesn't care about space marines!

 

Ok so, before telling me that the army I play is not right for me maybe you could address the core of my argument, notably that I enjoyed stormcast (not a different army) more in v2 than in v3.

As for arguments based on "the lore", leaving aside the fact that we might interpret it differently (for me stormcast are basically a resistance against what is basically the whole mortal realms so they must fight like a guerrilla, although waged by warriors in heavy armour), I find it difficult to accept them in general. How about the lore of coming down from the sky directly in the heart of battle? Or a lord relictor fighting a maw crusha/ a lord aquilor fighting a keeper of secrets and living to tell the tale? Or a magnificent Stardrake having the same armour save as a random lizard / random human in armour / random anything really?

Maybe it's better to leave lore arguments aside.

As for the obvious meaning of translocation, maybe you could afford your fellow hobbyists some measure of understanding if they developed a legitimate expectation that a rule published twice online and printed in books worldwide would have to be interpreted as it was written?

Finally, the incredibly contrived interpretation of cycle was required to make sense of the sloppy writing of the rules without inventing new ones. Proof of this is that we didn't get a clarification but an actual rewrite (of a book we all just bought). So again, while you might legitimately disagree with an interpretation, you should also be able to see that the rule was by no means clear since they had to literally change it to make it work

[The Red King]

1 minute ago, Marcvs said:

Ok so, before telling me that the army I play is not right for me maybe you could address the core of my argument, notably that I enjoyed stormcast (not a different army) more in v2 than in v3.

As for arguments based on "the lore", leaving aside the fact that we might interpret it differently (for me stormcast are basically a resistance against what is basically the whole mortal realms so they must fight like a guerrilla, although waged by warriors in heavy armour), I find it difficult to accept them in general. How about the lore of coming down from the sky directly in the heart of battle? Or a lord relictor fighting a maw crusha/ a lord aquilor fighting a keeper of secrets and living to tell the tale? Or a magnificent Stardrake having the same armour save as a random lizard / random human in armour / random anything really?

Maybe it's better to leave lore arguments aside.

As for the obvious meaning of translocation, maybe you could afford your fellow hobbyists some measure of understanding if they developed a legitimate expectation that a rule published twice online and printed in books worldwide would have to be interpreted as it was written?

Finally, the incredibly contrived interpretation of cycle was required to make sense of the sloppy writing of the rules without inventing new ones. Proof of this is that we didn't get a clarification but an actual rewrite (of a book we all just bought). So again, while you might legitimately disagree with an interpretation, you should also be able to see that the rule was by no means clear since they had to literally change it to make it work

Apologies if I touched a nerve but I didn't mean you're wrong to like the army. I was genuinely curious what drew you to the army that doesn't really do tricks (in lore or rules) as a player who likes tricks.

As for translocation I agree that it sucks how they sorted it out but I play Khorne and you won't see me trying to put an artifact on skulltaker just because they have consistently left [unique] off his scroll.

The rule wasn't clear, but the interpretation some users came to was more complicated than the unclear rule itself and would require an incredibly slanted viewpoint to accept so the fact that the same user then attacks the character of the FAQ team by calling them idiots, is what I find unbecoming. That said GW shouldn't be selling 50 dollar books they have to rewrite 2 weeks later and I commiserate a hundred percent with you there.

[Beliman]

18 minutes ago, The Red King said:

Everything on that list is either once a game or requires other things to facilitate it. Nobody else has a teleport that does not specify they can't move afterwards is what I was saying. Except maybe Nagash cause I don't know his rules but he's pretty bad anyways as far as I know and it's a lot easier to balance one unit with the ability rather than one unit that can use the ability on any warscroll they put STORMCAST on.

I don't think KO boats should work the way they do if it helps. 

 

I'd also like to add that Mega-gargants are overtuned due to some rules interactions so if that's your yardstick you're going to find almost every army is terrible.

100% this. I tried to explain that some days ago but I couldn't explain myself.

If Translocate needed a CP or It was a Holy Order and only could target Thunderstrike units, I think people would not find anything wrong. A 2+/3+ prayer was a bit rare. 

And I'm not talking about power-level or how good Translocate was for some tournament lists.

[Tizianolol]

Guys I dont think the nerf of translocation is s big problem! Remember " redeploy" , if we teleport and move, opponent redeploy. Thats the reason i didnt think it was broken, anyway in London this week end a list with lord celestant on dracoth  and dracoline msu list did 5-0.. we are not so bad!!

[PrimeElectrid]

49 minutes ago, Phasteon said:

You could salt a ton of fries with that post. 

Great contribution. Really moves the conversation forward.

47 minutes ago, The Red King said:

Everything on that list is either once a game or requires other things to facilitate it. Nobody else has a teleport that does not specify they can't move afterwards is what I was saying. Except maybe Nagash cause I don't know his rules but he's pretty bad anyways as far as I know and it's a lot easier to balance one unit with the ability rather than one unit that can use the ability on any warscroll they put STORMCAST on.

I don't think KO boats should work the way they do if it helps. 

And yet, KO boats do work that way, as do a bunch of other abilities to hurtle something across the board. 

Other teleports may indeed restrict move after (Hunters does not, much like Scions), but the point of my comment was that there are numerous abilities which are functionally identical to move after teleport and nobody has an issue with it. SCE get the same and everyone loses their minds. Apparently asking people to redeploy was too much.

In addition, nobody recognises that SCE lost all their delivery mechanisms. Gavriels CA was deleted, removing Scions for all but six melee warscrolls. Meanwhile the Heraldor run and charge ability was deleted, leaving only a CA which conflicts with At the Double. Once per game spend a CP to roll a 1 and watch your expensive melee waddle 5”.

 

Edited October 20, 2021 by PrimeElectrid

[JackStreicher]

13 minutes ago, PrimeElectrid said:

Great contribution. Really moves the conversation forward.

And yet, KO boats do work that way, as do a bunch of other abilities to hurtle something across the board. 

Other teleports may indeed restrict move after (Hunters does not, much like Scions), but the point of my comment was that there are numerous abilities which are functionally identical to move after teleport and nobody has an issue with it. SCE get the same and everyone loses their minds. Apparently asking people to redeploy was too much.

In addition, nobody recognises that SCE lost all their delivery mechanisms. Gavriels CA was deleted, removing Scions for all but six melee warscrolls. Meanwhile the Heraldor run and charge ability was deleted, leaving only a CA which conflicts with At the Double. Once per game spend a CP to roll a 1 and watch your expensive melee waddle 5”.

 

I don't know what you mean, those 220+ points Paladins always got to their target, in every game... *irony*

[The Red King]

13 minutes ago, PrimeElectrid said:

Great contribution. Really moves the conversation forward.

And yet, KO boats do work that way, as do a bunch of other abilities to hurtle something across the board. 

Other teleports may indeed restrict move after (Hunters does not, much like Scions), but the point of my comment was that there are numerous abilities which are functionally identical to move after teleport and nobody has an issue with it. SCE get the same and everyone loses their minds. Apparently asking people to redeploy was too much.

In addition, nobody recognises that SCE lost all their delivery mechanisms. Gavriels CA was deleted, removing Scions for all but six melee warscrolls. Meanwhile the Heraldor run and charge ability was deleted, leaving only a CA which conflicts with At the Double. Once per game spend a CP to roll a 1 and watch your expensive melee waddle 5”.

 

I don't consider the fact that other things should be changed as an excuse for why this shouldn't have been. What I apologize for being unclear about in my post when I said the teleport change was "obvious" was that I meant that from a wording standpoint. Yes there are functionally ways to teleport and move but there is almost no teleport that isn't once a game that doesnt include the words "that unit can not move in the movement phase".

[Kaptinskaggy]

I know we're all suffering from the fallout of the FAQ, but what do people think about the warscroll for Xandire's Truthseekers? (It's on the app)

Looks like 265 pts for 15 wounds and a fairly diverse loadout of weapon profiles - including a rend 3 grandhammer - and a grab-bag of other stormcast abilities - MWs on 6's for the bow, slightly buffed lay low the tyrant for Mr. grandhammer, and a +1 to hit on an enemy unit in the combat phase. Hammers keyword, of course, which is always a drag, and not a leader. 

[Beliman]

40 minutes ago, PrimeElectrid said:

And yet, KO boats do work that way, as do a bunch of other abilities to hurtle something across the board. 

 

A few notes: You can't move after Fly High (nor disembark). Only one subfaction (Zilfin) has a once-per-game (you know, like your Holy Orders).

And let's be honest, KOs is a faction without a lot of basic mechanics or tech-tools (no wizards, priests and monsters, etc...). Not sure if that counts too.

[PJetski]

4 minutes ago, Kaptinskaggy said:

I know we're all suffering from the fallout of the FAQ, but what do people think about the warscroll for Xandire's Truthseekers? (It's on the app)

Looks like 265 pts for 15 wounds and a fairly diverse loadout of weapon profiles - including a rend 3 grandhammer - and a grab-bag of other stormcast abilities - MWs on 6's for the bow, slightly buffed lay low the tyrant for Mr. grandhammer, and a +1 to hit on an enemy unit in the combat phase. Hammers keyword, of course, which is always a drag, and not a leader. 

Theyre easily the strongest Underworlds warband we have seen so far

15 wounds on a 3+ is great, counts as 6 models on objectives

8 Grandweapon attacks (3+/3+ Rend-1/2 damage) but 3 of those attacks are at Rend-3, their own Azyros lantern, and 3 Longstrike shots (although at 2+/3+ instead of 3+/2+ which is a bit worse)

Really good, but they're HAMMERS OF SIGMAR so I probably can't find room for them at 265. Maybe if they could take artefacts/traits/etc.

[Kaptinskaggy]

1 minute ago, PJetski said:

Theyre easily the strongest Underworlds warband we have seen so far

15 wounds on a 3+ is great, counts as 6 models on objectives

8 Grandweapon attacks (3+/3+ Rend-1/2 damage) but 3 of those attacks are at Rend-3, their own Azyros lantern, and 3 Longstrike shots (although at 2+/3+ instead of 3+/2+ which is a bit worse)

Really good, but they're HAMMERS OF SIGMAR so I probably can't find room for them at 265. Maybe if they could take artefacts/traits/etc.

Yeah I think it's neat to finally have a group of Stormcast that actually fit the "band of heroes" fantasy that Underworlds warbands (and Stormcast in general) are supposed to have.