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Stormcast Eternals 3.0 - There is no "a" in Vindictors


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3 hours ago, Freejack02 said:

A points hike I can understand, a warscroll rewrite would be saddening... especially since we really haven't even gotten to play with them yet. I hope they don't pull a KO Thunderers before the majority even get to test them out... 

Yea also making a hike and also a warscroll change makes no sense, either change the warscroll to match the points, or change the points to match the warscroll... If they are made worse AND cost more points, well guess I save some money then. My hype for this release has gone down the drain anyway at this point. I would not be surprised if they increase points by 10-15% and also remove the hero phase move+charge, or even the entire hero phase movement all together.

If drakes get nerfed and translocate no longer works that leaves the book with a few power units and combos:

Main hammers: Fulminators, Longstrikes, Annihilators (2 handers)

Main combos: Relictor+Ghur battlemage with wildform +2 charge (far less reliable though...), Imperatant + annihilator deep strike, longstrike double tap + translocate.

Everything outside these units and combos will be significantly weaker in a competitive sense. I don't even want to get started on the cheesemonger list with 5 knight judicators and fox, lists like that are the embodiment of every single flaw in the game.

The only thing I sort of get in the unverified rumor, is the warlord menagerie trait. While I would like the dragon lists to actually be playable, having this trait just makes it so inefficient to use anything else. If you general is a dragon with that trait, taking a unit of dracoths for example is extremely inefficient when they do not benefit from -1 to be wounded, so making mixed lists is discouraged by this. If the trait is nerfed though and drakes get a point increase and warscroll nerf, the competitively viable dragon list has died before even reaching the tables.

I think this release was handled just about as bad as could be, full of frustration, confusion, uncertainty and worry, not feelings you want for what should be an exciting new release...

Edited by Scurvydog
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41 minutes ago, Scurvydog said:

Yea also making a hike and also a warscroll change makes no sense, either change the warscroll to match the points, or change the points to match the warscroll... If they are made worse AND cost more points, well guess I save some money then. My hype for this release has gone down the drain anyway at this point. I would not be surprised if they increase points by 10-15% and also remove the hero phase move+charge, or even the entire hero phase movement all together.

If drakes get nerfed and translocate no longer works that leaves the book with a few power units and combos:

Main hammers: Fulminators, Longstrikes, Annihilators (2 handers)

Main combos: Relictor+Ghur battlemage with wildform +2 charge (far less reliable though...), Imperatant + annihilator deep strike, longstrike double tap + translocate.

Everything outside these units and combos will be significantly weaker in a competitive sense. I don't even want to get started on the cheesemonger list with 5 knight judicators and fox, lists like that are the embodiment of every single flaw in the game.

The only thing I sort of get in the unverified rumor, is the warlord menagerie trait. While I would like the dragon lists to actually be playable, having this trait just makes it so inefficient to use anything else. If you general is a dragon with that trait, taking a unit of dracoths for example is extremely inefficient when they do not benefit from -1 to be wounded, so making mixed lists is discouraged by this. If the trait is nerfed though and drakes get a point increase and warscroll nerf, the competitively viable dragon list has died before even reaching the tables.

I think this release was handled just about as bad as could be, full of frustration, confusion, uncertainty and worry, not feelings you want for what should be an exciting new release...

I’m right there with you, my enthusiasm is at an all time low. Book delayed; models currently 7-8 weeks behind the book; long FAQ time making event legality uncertain; all melee mobility options stripped out except for Imperatant when annihilators that aren’t available, a run and charge CA that doesn’t work with run 6” CA, and translocation; the likelihood that translocation will be nerfed; the likelihood the Stormdrakes will get nerfed; and now the possibility that it will in fact be a triple nerf.

And all of this stretched out over a 3-6 month period with no communication about what the future holds.

I’m constantly rewriting lists not because I’m excited to try new things, but because the ground keeps getting pulled out from under my feet.

Edited by PrimeElectrid
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55 minutes ago, Scurvydog said:

My hype for this release has gone down the drain anyway at this point.

Right there with you. If this release had been normal I'd've happily dropped a couple hundred on it. Now though, I'm more than happy to just make lists with what I've got.

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5 hours ago, PrimeElectrid said:

There’s an unverified and unsourced rumour going around that Stormdrakes will get a points hike in winter faq, a warscroll rewrite and celestial menagerie will change.

Also multiple people claiming sources tell them translocate will be nerfed.

So they're going to rewrite other warscrolls right? Bad ones that don't fit anywhere? Right? 🤪

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51 minutes ago, lare2 said:

Right there with you. If this release had been normal I'd've happily dropped a couple hundred on it. Now though, I'm more than happy to just make lists with what I've got.

I still might get Bastian but yeah, at this point it feels like our intelligence is being insulted. So many other companies are keeping good communication through COVID, why should I spend money with yours???

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If they actually are taking the time to rewrite SDG warscroll, I sure hope they're taking the time to adjust all the bad stuff. I'd like Krondys/Karazai to be close to worth 600 points. Also, please fix our 3 trash command traits instead of just nerfing the single good one.

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if translocation gets a nerf, it feels SUPER bad for all my oldcast. Dont wanna go back to shootcast/dragons again. 

Yesterday ive played a game on TTS with the new dragons against DOK. My god dragons are SUPER good. Ive played  a lot of games with 15 protectors but damn, dragons just feel insane

That -1 to wound is soooo good on a warscroll like that. 

 

Hate to see only dragon lists. I like the way translocation opens up other variations of lists

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Let me ensure you, the reports of my death have been grossly exaggerated.

These days i don't trust rumors further than i could throw them and a warscroll rewrite without a print publication would be quite the novelty. I'm still having fun throwing lists around, even without drakes and grand slammers. I didn't even get to play my beloved kitties yet, due to sickness. Not saying Gdubs didn't mess this release up (and still does), not saying we couldn't see harsh nerfs to our theoretical power houses, but i'd love to see something official before i burn my plastic lightning manz (which, i won't).

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Been lurking for a few days reading this thread, interesting stuff, returning to AOS from about 1.5 years of 40k.  SCE is all Ive played in 1st and 2nd ed.  Since I haven't seen anyone mention them, curious to why no one is mentioning the Ballistae anymore, they were everywhere last I played (I have 2).  Not worth taking these days?  

Also, what of the Venator?  I played 2 test games (against Fyreslayers) and even getting the vaunted 6 MW shot to hit for the first time ever against his Magmadroth last game, by turn two he recovered every wound by rolling well on Heroic Recovery.  Worth his points at 175 or no way?

 

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8 minutes ago, Stormblood said:

Been lurking for a few days reading this thread, interesting stuff, returning to AOS from about 1.5 years of 40k.  SCE is all Ive played in 1st and 2nd ed.  Since I haven't seen anyone mention them, curious to why no one is mentioning the Ballistae anymore, they were everywhere last I played (I have 2).  Not worth taking these days?  

Also, what of the Venator?  I played 2 test games (against Fyreslayers) and even getting the vaunted 6 MW shot to hit for the first time ever against his Magmadroth last game, by turn two he recovered every wound by rolling well on Heroic Recovery.  Worth his points at 175 or no way?

 

The venator is basically a dead warscroll now, but the ballista might still see some niche uses. It's not as good or efficient at shooting as the other shooting units but it's not horrible for its points. The days of dropping 4 of them with an ordinator are long gone though.

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48 minutes ago, Stormblood said:

Been lurking for a few days reading this thread, interesting stuff, returning to AOS from about 1.5 years of 40k.  SCE is all Ive played in 1st and 2nd ed.  Since I haven't seen anyone mention them, curious to why no one is mentioning the Ballistae anymore, they were everywhere last I played (I have 2).  Not worth taking these days?  

Also, what of the Venator?  I played 2 test games (against Fyreslayers) and even getting the vaunted 6 MW shot to hit for the first time ever against his Magmadroth last game, by turn two he recovered every wound by rolling well on Heroic Recovery.  Worth his points at 175 or no way?

 

Everything is still in the testing phase + we don't have our final Thunderstrike wave + the FAQ isn't out yet. So really, lists are up in the air, try what you want and report back so we can continue to compare notes with each other :) 

That being said, Venator is pretty DOA in the new book, not sure a points decrease will help either.

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6 hours ago, Juicy said:

if translocation gets a nerf, it feels SUPER bad for all my oldcast. Dont wanna go back to shootcast/dragons again. 

Yesterday ive played a game on TTS with the new dragons against DOK. My god dragons are SUPER good. Ive played  a lot of games with 15 protectors but damn, dragons just feel insane

That -1 to wound is soooo good on a warscroll like that. 

 

Hate to see only dragon lists. I like the way translocation opens up other variations of lists

They add new stormcast models on tts?

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7 hours ago, CommissarRotke said:

Everything is still in the testing phase + we don't have our final Thunderstrike wave + the FAQ isn't out yet. So really, lists are up in the air, try what you want and report back so we can continue to compare notes with each other :) 

That being said, Venator is pretty DOA in the new book, not sure a points decrease will help either.

I think the Venator can have a job between 115-135 points I think, as a mobile backline archer to hold objectives and threaten any enemy hero/monsters with sudden death if they drop to 3 wounds or less.  Even then the Venator has to compete with Castigators. 

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5 minutes ago, underdog6750 said:

Quick question with celestial blades, how are folks playing this with weapons like lightning hammers etc that cause 2 MWs and attack sequence ends? 

Since your don't roll to wound, celestial blades would have no effect on the attack that causes MWs

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18 hours ago, CommissarRotke said:

So they're going to rewrite other warscrolls right? Bad ones that don't fit anywhere? Right? 🤪

Isn't the most likely scenario that they won't rewrite any warscrolls? Because that seems to be their usual mode of operation.

To be honest, the idea that Stromdrakes would get a warscroll rewrite makes that rumour really unbelievable to me. They almost never do those even when they are desparately needed. And Stormdrakes can easily be fixed with points: They just have good stats and are point efficient, they don't break any game rules.

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15 hours ago, Stormblood said:

Been lurking for a few days reading this thread, interesting stuff, returning to AOS from about 1.5 years of 40k.  SCE is all Ive played in 1st and 2nd ed.  Since I haven't seen anyone mention them, curious to why no one is mentioning the Ballistae anymore, they were everywhere last I played (I have 2).  Not worth taking these days?  

Also, what of the Venator?  I played 2 test games (against Fyreslayers) and even getting the vaunted 6 MW shot to hit for the first time ever against his Magmadroth last game, by turn two he recovered every wound by rolling well on Heroic Recovery.  Worth his points at 175 or no way?

 

I ran 2 ballista with an ordinator last weekend (finding points to commit to more ballista was too difficult imo), they largely did nothing over 5 games, and are very swingy when they do get a shot through. Rapid fire felt largely pointless (use when what your shooting reduces damage taken by 1 I guess).

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21 hours ago, macrake said:

That would be a great customer goodwill move to sell us dragons and then nerf them a month later. I wouldn't feel cheated at all.

At this point i think FAQ will drop before the dragons even come out lol

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I agree that Ballistas still lack reliability, even with the presence of Lord-Ordinator. Hence my choice of Celestial Warbringers whenever I run multiple ballistas. Even a single re-roll can help mitigate the randomness of single shot mode, especially when the said Lord-Ordinator is buffing the ballistas. The stormhost trait also comes handy should you use unleash hell in crucial moment. 

As of now, I am running 3 ballistas(without Lord-Ordinator) with Stardrake, 4 fulminators and stormkeep liberators; liberators especially are crucial as they ensure ballistas are protected while not easily giving up objectives. 5-man liberators that count as 15 model unit, AND potentially dealing considerable damage to whichever unit charging them means they can be a significant threat that should be removed. This also provides target saturation and tends to further increase the survivability of ballistas. 

Stardrakes provide a sturdy anvil and good high rend shooting at the same time. Fulminators act as hard hitting hammer that can deal terrifying damage to both high save monsters and low save hordes, the latter posing significant threat to multiple ballistas. 

While I still need to play more games, as of now I am trying to switch the stardrake with Knight-Judicator, Lord-Ordinator, and a fourth ballista. In other words, more points on high rend firepower that could be focused on enemy units from turn 1. A unit of gryph hounds could also hopefully be used to provide more "road blocks" to the opponent.

Edited by Sagittarii Orientalis
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