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Stormcast Eternals 3.0 - There is no "a" in Vindictors


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34 minutes ago, Xeperi said:

Anyone found a use for Bundo Whalebiter in SCE at all? Few real synergies but I at least like Kraken-Eaters best for their objective punting.

you're better off trying to ally in stuff from COS really, but make the list that you want because right now we're in the Testing phase of this battletome.

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Apologies if this had been discussed already, but what is the current consensus on Judicator shockbolt bows?

I heard Vince discussing them on the latest Warhammer weekly and he said to never take them as they are now worse than the normal bow in every way, and it seems he's correct. It appears if you roll a 1 you will end up with less shots than a normal bow, making it almost not worth it.

Is this an oversight on GW's part or intentional? If they had the option for a prime that added 1 attack it would make it worth it, what are your guys thoughts?

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7 minutes ago, Schulzy said:

Apologies if this had been discussed already, but what is the current consensus on Judicator shockbolt bows?

I heard Vince discussing them on the latest Warhammer weekly and he said to never take them as they are now worse than the normal bow in every way, and it seems he's correct. It appears if you roll a 1 you will end up with less shots than a normal bow, making it almost not worth it.

Is this an oversight on GW's part or intentional? If they had the option for a prime that added 1 attack it would make it worth it, what are your guys thoughts?

I thought that he mentioned, that the shockbolt bow doesn’t do any mortal wounds, which makes it a lot worse then the 3shot bow that does

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4 minutes ago, Champasaur said:

I know someone had said it was better to take the base weapons for Retributors instead of starsoul maces, but what about Protectors? Is it better to take Starsoul Maces on them or is it better to take the Stormstrike Glaives?

I believe the Maces are always worth it unless you are against something with no saves at all.

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I’m pretty sure that maces are not the best specifically for Retributors because of the high damage and mortal wound output they have with 6’s to hit on their base weapons. I looked it over and that seemed to make sense, but I also was curious about Protectors.

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1 hour ago, Schulzy said:

Apologies if this had been discussed already, but what is the current consensus on Judicator shockbolt bows?

I heard Vince discussing them on the latest Warhammer weekly and he said to never take them as they are now worse than the normal bow in every way, and it seems he's correct. It appears if you roll a 1 you will end up with less shots than a normal bow, making it almost not worth it.

Is this an oversight on GW's part or intentional? If they had the option for a prime that added 1 attack it would make it worth it, what are your guys thoughts?

The Shockbolt bow doesn't cause mortals on a 6 to hit. Just for the ease of rolling, it is better to leave it out

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1 hour ago, Champasaur said:

I’m pretty sure that maces are not the best specifically for Retributors because of the high damage and mortal wound output they have with 6’s to hit on their base weapons. I looked it over and that seemed to make sense, but I also was curious about Protectors.

Here you go, protectors

Screenshot_20210921-082839.jpg.6173845e9f44fc689efd9c3e173ee2f8.jpg

 

And judicators

Screenshot_20210921-083025.jpg.385ac72575a8b32044b22af0dd04e6db.jpg

For judicators the difference is minimal so I would always go for the normal bow for ease of use.

For protectors again the difference is small but here I would max the starsoul maces: an enemy fighting 10-15 of these guys is very likely to consider popping all out defence and starsoul maces reduce the value of doing so. They are also a lifeline if you go into something with a 2+ save which ignores one or more points of rend.

Edited by Marcvs
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1 hour ago, Champasaur said:

I’m pretty sure that maces are not the best specifically for Retributors because of the high damage and mortal wound output they have with 6’s to hit on their base weapons. I looked it over and that seemed to make sense, but I also was curious about Protectors.

I was answering you about Protectors. The Maces also gain more from Unleash Thy Hatred since it's a doubling rather than +20% to attacks, effectively.

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On the Shockboltbow i agree, i would always take all regular bows. 

With Starsoulmaces it is not so easy to say i think. On Retributors they make only sense with Unleash thy hate, but Retributors are only played as 5man squads... 

On a 10-15 man Protectors unit, they can boost dmg, especially with uth, but there is always the danger of getting charged in the flanks and not being able to attack. I think it depends on playstyle

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So far the paladin heavy approach really seems to gamble on translocation staying the same, I would beware of running out and cleaning the shops for paladins before the FAQ.

In addition to that, I also feel it is a bit of a gamble even then, with paladins only having 4 movement, even with translocation, that still leaves 5" distance, which with redeploy can become between 6-11" charge, that is not a sure thing at all, combo that with possibly annihilators and lord imperatant 7" distance, that is OK, but no guarantee either, so I think that might push the entire thing out of the competitive sphere, while it will for sure still crack skulls aplenty in more casual games.

I think Dracothian Guards do the teleport trick just as well and can at least get within 3" with movement. 4 Fulminators is cheaper than 6 annihilators and only 10 pts more than 10 protectors. These guys do over 30 wounds against a 3+ save with all out attack on the charge, and that is without counting their storm breath, which will delete just about anything.

Then again you could also just take drakes, relocate them and hero phase move+charge charge to entirely avoid redeploy and unleash hell. Although they will never be up for preorder, the warscroll is simply there to taunt us ;)

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Re Judicator bows, if you run a unit of 15 i'd argue the shockbolt bows could clear a screen while the skybolt bows hammer high save units. They are vastly better against sv 5+/6+ targets. On a small unit i wouldn't bother as was said above, variance is out to get you in small numbers :P

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26 minutes ago, Scurvydog said:

So far the paladin heavy approach really seems to gamble on translocation staying the same, I would beware of running out and cleaning the shops for paladins before the FAQ.

I was initially skeptical of translocation as well, but no changes after several FAQ's and a new tome, surely it's intended right? Or are GW really that bad at fixing things in a timely fashion?

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Well orruks got a budget translocation as well, the classic hand of gork.

I'd say they can still move after that cause if you TP outside of 12" inches from your opponent you can still then use the "mighty destroyer" ability to make a normal move in your hero phase.
Not especially broken on 4" move units (you end up being 8" from your opponent after that) it becomes much more interesting on a unit of gore gruntas or even some other stuff like big creatures (maw krusha for example).

yes it's much more complicated, it's a spell and not an easy one to cast in an army like this without much bonuses to cast and not a 2+ (rerollable in some builds) auto "in your face" unit but that's it i guess.

so wait and see, so far it's cheating, like really! at least if they added a rule to make normal move divide by 2 after that or anything to downgrade this it would feel less broken but i think it's was designed this way to account for "redeploy".
with a move of 5" after the TP you're 4" away from enemy who can then redeploy making it a 5" to 11" charge, maybe the designers thought it could be a good idea i don't know.

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With redeploy in the game, that translocation isnt that big of a deal.. Also there are screens. With translocation you only be able to hit the frontline. if your big thing got translocation killed its your fault for no screening. 

After playing al these game now with move after translocate it really isnt that game breaking. I was against it at first but after surviving a few FAQ and legal on everytournament here i made peace with it. Now i enjoy teleporting paladins over the map. Not insta win. But its sure strong.

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1 hour ago, jeanfluflu said:

so wait and see, so far it's cheating, like really! at least if they added a rule to make normal move divide by 2 after that or anything to downgrade this it would feel less broken but i think it's was designed this way to account for "redeploy".
with a move of 5" after the TP you're 4" away from enemy who can then redeploy making it a 5" to 11" charge, maybe the designers thought it could be a good idea i don't know.

with redeploy being a 1d6 you can essentially imagine it as: your movement (maxed at 6")+1d6" must be 9" or higher. Which means translocation+move vs redeploy with paladins is a 5+ chance, a 4+ with 5" move, and 3+ with all others.

Of course this is largely mitigated by the fact that the opponent can only redeploy one unit, so you should aim at translocacting closer to multiple targets, but the one redeployed unit might just be the one you wanted to hit so we're back at the 5+/4+/3+ chances

 EDIT:   @Lengthster let me know if you disagree or think this is not clear!

Edited by Marcvs
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5 hours ago, Schulzy said:

Is this an oversight on GW's part or intentional? If they had the option for a prime that added 1 attack it would make it worth it, what are your guys thoughts?

Not sure if I'm understanding you correctly but the Prime does add 1 attack, making it 1d6+1 attacks if you give it the shockbolt bow. That said, it also gets +1 attack to the skybolt bows, and 3 attacks with MWs on 6s seems just a little bit better to me, especially since that's what the rest of the unit is specialised to do.

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@Juicy @Marcvs
You're probably right guys, i'd like to try this tool on other armies such as soulblight for example.
Against the khorne matchup he didn't have much screens cause he loaded up his entire army with bloodthirsters and i got the upper hand with the pressure i got on him with ballistas and magic.

cause yeah even if i TP my 5 evocators it will not make a difference against a unit of 60 zombies :D

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Glad to hear your game with OBR went well.  Seems like the Imperatant worked out well for you.

On 9/20/2021 at 4:56 PM, Phasteon said:

#2 Liberators!! 

Yupp, I‚Äėm in love with my nostalgia boys.¬†

They held their own against Zandtos + Deathrider charge thanks to +2 Save (Shields + All out) AND put some hurt back thanks to better profiles and ley low the tyrant! Absolutely worth their 115 points and I will stick to those! 

Forgive me if im wrong. Are you sure 2+ save with Libs is possible? My understanding was that while save stacking is possible the net save may never be more than +1.

Shields give Libs +1. Any further save buffs are used to mitigate rend.  Thats why vindictors are prefered by many.  They are battleline that can achieve a 2+ save.

On 9/20/2021 at 4:56 PM, Phasteon said:

As a Hammers of Sigmar player I pretty much got the best from everything. 

6+ ward where I needed it

double tapping Judicators

+1A Paladins for bursting stuff

I was excited during previews about Knight Excelsior for paladin as battleline.   This little list, however, may be just about enough to push me towards Hammers.  That and Bastian.

Thanks for sharing your experiences

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4 minutes ago, OG SCE said:

Forgive me if im wrong. Are you sure 2+ save with Libs is possible? My understanding was that while save stacking is possible the net save may never be more than +1.

That's actually a really good point... I never saw it as that but it does say add 1 to the save roll. I kinda just assumed it said, those with shields have a 3+ save. 

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9 minutes ago, OG SCE said:

Forgive me if im wrong. Are you sure 2+ save with Libs is possible? My understanding was that while save stacking is possible the net save may never be more than +1.

he wrote that they had "+2" to save, not a 2+ save :D so they were on 3+ ignoring rend 1

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18 hours ago, jeanfluflu said:

I just finished a game with a almost full sacro sanct army, the list was the following:

  • Hallowed knight stormkeep.
  • Grands strategy: precious sorcery
  • ¬†
  • Lord arcanum on Tauralon: celestial menagerie, azyrite halo, drakescale armor, call for aid
  • Lord relictor: translocation
  • knight incantor: celestial blades
  • ¬†
  • 3x5 sequitors
  • 5 evocators
  • 3 dracolines
  • 2 stormdrakes
  • 2x celetar balista
  • Everblaze comet

    On this setup sequitors delas MW when charged, can fight back after they die, can make a sqaud of 5 reapear somewhere else...etc. Tauralon is a tank, stormdrake brings utility and HUGE projection, translocation is a game winning ability....etc.


Against a khorne list:

  • reaper of vengeance:
  • ¬†
  • Skarbrand
  • wrath of khorne bloodthirster
  • bloodthirster of unfettered fury
  • khorne deamon prince
  • bloodsecrator
  • slaughterpriest
  • ¬†
  • 20 bloodletters
  • 5 flesh hounds
  • 10 bloodreavers
  • 5 wrathmongers


On paper very frightening, and it was, skarbrand may be fragile but he deletes pretty much everything he touches, the bloodthirsters are nice but not a huge threat for our tanky army and the rest is negligable.

the scenario was APEX PREDATOR, which was in the favor of my opponentn since only heroes can score and secure objectives in this scenario.

Long story short i won 24/17, tabled him and only lost the tauralon (with a pro double move skarbrand who then charged into my poor poor bird to delete him from existence) a couple of sequitors and my squad of evocators so here's my thoughts of sacrosanct:

Tauralon: great utility, he synergized the balistas and the drake thanks to his command trait so well!
He helped a lot for objectives and tactics and can tank very very well thanks to the drakescale armor and a couple of armor buff, very vulnerable to MW though. B+

Balistas: Very good unit, picking one is too little and 3 sounds like too much points for such specific niche (sniping low wound heroes) but they do that perfectly! combine this with a couple of MW here and there (which this army pumps A LOT) and no <6W heroes should survive long. A+

Sequitors: in this particular setup they deal MW when you charge them, then again when you kill them, they can fight back when they die on a 4+ AND they get a natural 5+ ward.
you can put an extra squad of them when needed with "call for aid", they are simply amazing. B+

Evocators/Dracoline: Evocators feels great with the current state of translocation (which is broken BTW) and play almost like annihilators with the extra layer of utility on the MW (you can charge and fight a sqaud and use your pile-in movement to "slide" arround the unit and snipe a character hidden behind with your zap zap).
Dracolines are better in every way, they punch with so many attacks that you will deal damages and the extra MW are very appreciated. They play the same as before and do it slightly better so i'd say they are pretty good. B+

incantor: cheap and have a scroll, not much else but he's really really appreciated! B+

Lord relictor: i hope they FAQ the translocation because right now it feels like cheating. other than that he's a beast, he's versatile and his ither spells are nice. As long as translocation stays the same he's an auto include! S

Stormdrake: the have everything, what else can i say? MW that AUTO HIT on a shooting attack, MONSTER keyword, a decent volume of rend 2 damage 2 attacks making them valuable in combat AND -1 to get wounded...... why would you not play a sqaud of these in every of your game? S

 

I like this list. Since I'm really into sacrosanct and the look and feel of the models, it's good to read that they still can pack a punch.

What would you do differently the next time around? Do you feel you had enough protection or ways to deal with ranged MW threats (lumineth comes to mind)? 

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