Stormcast Eternals 3.0 - There is no "a" in Vindictors

[Starfyre]

2 minutes ago, xking said:

It is my belief that every stormcast should have at least one damage 2 weapon.  Also they are literally demigods, they are Beyond standard Infantry. But then again, I'm all about the lore.

That's fair enough. 

Personally I see that being represented through their other stats, like 2 wounds, 2 attacks, 3+/3+/-1. Movement 6 with that armour is pretty super human IMO. Whilst it's a fairly standard elite profile these days, they are still basic troops on a par with other factions elite soldiers.

[Blood0Tiger]

1 hour ago, Maephi said:

Which makes me quite happy. I just built 30 of the guys today.

Hunters are under-appreciated for their sculpts and allows some movement for making action poses fairly easy to do, which is great to see. I've done a lot of kitbashes and conversions with their parts on many non stormcast projects. Sure it can be busy to look at, but you could remove stuff and its not too glaring.  

[Blood0Tiger]

1 hour ago, xking said:

It is my belief that every stormcast should have at least one damage 2 weapon.  Also they are literally demigods, they are Beyond standard Infantry. But then again, I'm all about the lore.

I agree with feeling how the lore should impact the design. I personally think 1 damage is alright, but as you say they don't feel like standard infantry, but they cant have every tool at their disposal. If they added equipment one day like 40k this would be a different.

AOS design is to keep the utility focused around picking a specific unit to do a niche instead of using a generalized unit and upgrading them.  I think the idea should be explored ( not experiment release) but not at all like 40k, it needs to be new and fresh if my interest is wanted. 

 

[Lucur]

4 minutes ago, Blood0Tiger said:

I agree with feeling how the lore should impact the design. I personally think 1 damage is alright, but as you say they don't feel like standard infantry, but they cant have every tool at their disposal. If they added equipment one day like 40k this would be a different.

AOS design is to keep the utility focused around picking a specific unit to do a niche instead of using a generalized unit and upgrading them.  I think the idea should be explored ( not experiment release) but not at all like 40k, it needs to be new and fresh if my interest is wanted. 

 

That's something they're moving away from in 40k as well. If the rumors prove true and we get homogenised weapon stats (hammers/swords on Liberators etc.) that would point towards less customisation options in the near future.

[Blood0Tiger]

9 minutes ago, Lucur said:

That's something they're moving away from in 40k as well. If the rumors prove true and we get homogenised weapon stats (hammers/swords on Liberators etc.) that would point towards less customisation options in the near future.

Agreed.

I've seen this too often with the stratagems of recent editions, all about damage cap or you die from it, maybe we'll see objectives gone soon too, not a lot of support in the 3.0 or 9th edition 40k books of my own observations. Maybe this is why the game is designed about the first mosh pit is the win or lose strategy they imply? Idk, not enough data on this to give any real answer.

I would like stormcast to get some interesting objective capitalization concepts other armies cant do. But I expect it being about stopping power and making the mosh pit less risky for them. 

[Lengthster]

2 damage would be cool, but I don't fancy the idea of completely halved damage against coalesced Seraphon

[Lengthster]

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/08/23/we-rate-gryphs-a-guide-to-the-cutest-and-most-ferocious-stormcast-eternal-companions
!!!

[PrimeElectrid]

More charging mortals, better warning cry, battleline teleport. Lots to like here.

[Lengthster]

1 minute ago, PrimeElectrid said:

More charging mortals, better warning cry, battleline teleport. Lots to like here.

I'm so glad they gave us some juicy crumbs haha

Also chariot can choose between a spear and bow, is that new info or did I miss/forget that?

[PrimeElectrid]

13 minutes ago, Lengthster said:

I'm so glad they gave us some juicy crumbs haha

Also chariot can choose between a spear and bow, is that new info or did I miss/forget that?

No there’s a pic in the ghb of spear variant 

[Sagittarii Orientalis]

 

Finally! Only now do Stormcasts gain access to mid-game teleportation ability like Seraphon and Kharadrons did.

At least there is now one more reason to add a unit of Vanguard-Palladors, especially when you are concerned about Tooth and Nails.

Edited August 23, 2021 by Sagittarii Orientalis

[PJetski]

The gryphs pulling the chariot are also called gryph-chargers? That's moronic, they're clearly a different animal. Should have called them something else.

I like the look of these rules. Chariots do the same kind of mortal wounds that Annihilators can do but they're not stuck with a 4" move so they have the mobility to redeploy elsewhere on the battlefield after the initial engagement.

Teleporting 15 wound battleline Palladors seems good, but having to land >9" from an enemy really limits the tactical utility. It's good for taking completely empty objectives but that really doesn't happen often enough. 

[Nizrah]

But you can charge now

[PJetski]

15 minutes ago, Nizrah said:

But you can charge now

Unless they can re-roll charges natively you're looking at some serious opportunity costs to make it reliable

Even if you make the charge you're not stealing any objectives with their low damage output. They would a huge boost to their current damage in order to steal objectives and ways to boost a 9" charge.

I just don't see it happening, but I would love to be proven wrong because Palladors are sick models 

[Scurvydog]

So with "preorders in september" who will bet it is going to be september 25th?

[Blood0Tiger]

9 hours ago, Scurvydog said:

So with "preorders in september" who will bet it is going to be september 25th?

Probably.

Would be an interesting B-day for me to witness a 25th pre-order I'll say that. 

[mystycalchemy]

https://imgur.com/a/pBPEkPp

Decided to take a crack at coming up with rules for the new units. Left out Krondys and Karazai, as I just couldn't think of much for them besides "big wizard and big beatstick"

 

These aren't meant to all be good, just interesting. I don't play tournaments so these are all probably either terrible or gamebreaking. But isn't that the fun part?

[Scurvydog]

2 hours ago, mystycalchemy said:

https://imgur.com/a/pBPEkPp

Decided to take a crack at coming up with rules for the new units. Left out Krondys and Karazai, as I just couldn't think of much for them besides "big wizard and big beatstick"

 

These aren't meant to all be good, just interesting. I don't play tournaments so these are all probably either terrible or gamebreaking. But isn't that the fun part?

Some wishful thinking in some areas I'm afraid  

Chariots needs to be bad in AoS, so no way there will be a baseline rend 2. Maybe, just maybe the spear will get a rend 2 dmg 2 with 2-3 attacks on the charge, the Axe will at best be rend 1 with a standard liberator-ish profile.

The Drake riders will most likely have less attacks. Swords rend 1, lances rend 0 but rend 2 on the charge, also 1 less attack for each and reach 1-2 on lances. There should be some actual attacks from the drake too, something similar to the dracoths we have seen most likely. I would expect more expensive flying dracoths almost, however I think they will only have 3+ saves.

You can probably safely expect to remove a rend in many places, the new bow dudes will for sure not have rend 2 on their bows, nor will the vanquishers with great swords, I think those guys might be 2 attacks with 3+/3+ rend 1 and dmg 2 and 4+ saves. A bit cheaper than vindictors, worse survivability but perhaps a slight edge in damage, at least for smaller 5 man units where reach is not needed (the greatswords will be reach 1" of course). 

At least GW gives us plenty of time to speculate.

[Marcvs]

I am going to a small tournament late in September. I registered hoping to use the new book but it clearly won't be the case now (cut off date for publications is 11 September). I still want to go Stormkeep because that's what I would like to devlop in the new BT, and I won't have many serious reps in (newborn in the house + busy period at work) so I don't really have any expectation in terms of results. That being said, I still want to try and come up with a decent-ish list inside these constraints. So here's two takes on the archetype "Gotrek & friends - You need to have a ward save to ride". Comments are welcome but no, I don't think I want to play an Annihilator spam list (nor would I have the time to paint them I am afraid)

Spoiler

Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals
- Stormhost: No stormhost (Stormkeep)
- - Grand Strategy: Hold the Line
- Triumphs:
- Battlemage (115)
- - Mortal Realm: Ghur
- Universal Spell Lore: Ghost-mist
- Anointed on Frostheart Phoenix (315)*
- - Artefact: Arcane Tome (Universal Artefact)
- - Universal Spell Lore: Flaming Weapon
Yndrasta the Celestial Spear (300)*
Lord-Castellant (130)*
- General
- - Command Trait: Staunch Defender
- Mystic Light (Artefact): Lantern of the Tempest
- Gotrek Gurnisson (435)**
- - Allies
5 x Liberators (95)**
- Warhammer & Shield
- - 1x Grandhammers
5 x Liberators (95)*
- Warhammer & Shield
- - 1x Grandhammers
15 x Vindictors (420)**
- Reinforced x 2
- 3 x Aetherwings (45)
- 3 x Aetherwings (45)
- *Warlord
**Hunters of the Heartlands
Artefact

Total: 1995 / 2000
Reinforced Units: 2 / 4
Allies: 435 / 400
Wounds: 101
Drops: 10

Spoiler

Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals
- Stormhost: No Stormhost (Stormkeep)
- Grand Strategy: Hold the Line
- Triumphs:
Battlemage on Griffon (275)*
- Artefact: Amulet of Destiny (Universal Artefact)
- Universal Spell Lore: Flaming Weapon
Gotrek Gurnisson (435)**
- Allies
Lord-Castellant (130)*
Lord-Veritant (120)*
- General
- Command Trait: High Priest
- Prayer: Translocation
Anointed on Frostheart Phoenix (315)***
- Artefact: Arcane Tome (Universal Artefact)
- Universal Spell Lore: Flaming Weapon
15 x Vindictors (420)**
- Reinforced x 2
5 x Liberators (95)**
- Warhammer & Shield
- 1x Grandhammers
5 x Liberators (95)***
- Warhammer & Shield
- 1x Grandhammers
3 x Aetherwings (45)***
Emerald Lifeswarm (60)
*Warlord
**Hunters of the Heartlands
***Battle Regiment
Artefact

Total: 1990 / 2000
Reinforced Units: 2 / 4
Allies: 435 / 400
Wounds: 101
Drops: 7

In both cases the idea is to have a three-pronged deployment composed of a) gotrek + battlemage + 5 libs; b) phoenix + 5 libs; c) vindictors and supporting heroes, which should help against the "one big threat" lists (as every prong would need the intervention of the big guy to be killed). Gotrek should also help against Gargants as the list otherwise lacks the necessary punch. Because of this, I am afraid they could be weak in terms of battle tactics.

I like the first list a bit more, which is sad because I really realy wanted to prove that the battlemage on griffon is playable lol. In that list I wonder whether the investment on the battlemage for (essentially) giving +2 to run/charge to gotrek could be better spent elsewehere.

Of course, in both lists I am essentially playing without allegiance abilities 🤷‍♂️

 

[jhamslam]

3 hours ago, Marcvs said:

I am going to a small tournament late in September. I registered hoping to use the new book but it clearly won't be the case now (cut off date for publications is 11 September). I still want to go Stormkeep because that's what I would like to devlop in the new BT, and I won't have many serious reps in (newborn in the house + busy period at work) so I don't really have any expectation in terms of results. That being said, I still want to try and come up with a decent-ish list inside these constraints. So here's two takes on the archetype "Gotrek & friends - You need to have a ward save to ride". Comments are welcome but no, I don't think I want to play an Annihilator spam list (nor would I have the time to paint them I am afraid)

  Hide contents

Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals
- Stormhost: No stormhost (Stormkeep)
- - Grand Strategy: Hold the Line
- Triumphs:
- Battlemage (115)
- - Mortal Realm: Ghur
- Universal Spell Lore: Ghost-mist
- Anointed on Frostheart Phoenix (315)*
- - Artefact: Arcane Tome (Universal Artefact)
- - Universal Spell Lore: Flaming Weapon
Yndrasta the Celestial Spear (300)*
Lord-Castellant (130)*
- General
- - Command Trait: Staunch Defender
- Mystic Light (Artefact): Lantern of the Tempest
- Gotrek Gurnisson (435)**
- - Allies
5 x Liberators (95)**
- Warhammer & Shield
- - 1x Grandhammers
5 x Liberators (95)*
- Warhammer & Shield
- - 1x Grandhammers
15 x Vindictors (420)**
- Reinforced x 2
- 3 x Aetherwings (45)
- 3 x Aetherwings (45)
- *Warlord
**Hunters of the Heartlands
Artefact

Total: 1995 / 2000
Reinforced Units: 2 / 4
Allies: 435 / 400
Wounds: 101
Drops: 10

  Hide contents

Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals
- Stormhost: No Stormhost (Stormkeep)
- Grand Strategy: Hold the Line
- Triumphs:
Battlemage on Griffon (275)*
- Artefact: Amulet of Destiny (Universal Artefact)
- Universal Spell Lore: Flaming Weapon
Gotrek Gurnisson (435)**
- Allies
Lord-Castellant (130)*
Lord-Veritant (120)*
- General
- Command Trait: High Priest
- Prayer: Translocation
Anointed on Frostheart Phoenix (315)***
- Artefact: Arcane Tome (Universal Artefact)
- Universal Spell Lore: Flaming Weapon
15 x Vindictors (420)**
- Reinforced x 2
5 x Liberators (95)**
- Warhammer & Shield
- 1x Grandhammers
5 x Liberators (95)***
- Warhammer & Shield
- 1x Grandhammers
3 x Aetherwings (45)***
Emerald Lifeswarm (60)
*Warlord
**Hunters of the Heartlands
***Battle Regiment
Artefact

Total: 1990 / 2000
Reinforced Units: 2 / 4
Allies: 435 / 400
Wounds: 101
Drops: 7

In both cases the idea is to have a three-pronged deployment composed of a) gotrek + battlemage + 5 libs; b) phoenix + 5 libs; c) vindictors and supporting heroes, which should help against the "one big threat" lists (as every prong would need the intervention of the big guy to be killed). Gotrek should also help against Gargants as the list otherwise lacks the necessary punch. Because of this, I am afraid they could be weak in terms of battle tactics.

I like the first list a bit more, which is sad because I really realy wanted to prove that the battlemage on griffon is playable lol. In that list I wonder whether the investment on the battlemage for (essentially) giving +2 to run/charge to gotrek could be better spent elsewehere.

Of course, in both lists I am essentially playing without allegiance abilities 🤷‍♂️

 

So in my experience, annhilators are amazing right now with an imperatant. Vindictors have been hit or miss since they can die relatively easily and dont have a hughe amount of output compared to dedicated paladins.

as for the Griffon battlemage, wouldnt it just be better to have knight incantors and a mage on foot? Why the griffon in this instance? 

 

If youre not taking Allegiances go for the good old staunch defender with 10 Vindictors

[Marcvs]

5 minutes ago, jhamslam said:

So in my experience, annhilators are amazing right now with an imperatant. Vindictors have been hit or miss since they can die relatively easily and dont have a hughe amount of output compared to dedicated paladins.

as for the Griffon battlemage, wouldnt it just be better to have knight incantors and a mage on foot? Why the griffon in this instance? 

 

If youre not taking Allegiances go for the good old staunch defender with 10 Vindictors

The griffon (or the Ghur battlemage in genral) is there for their warscroll spell (wildform) which gives +2 to run/charge -mainly aimed at gotrek but potentially interesting on the Vindictors. Specifically the griffon is quite cheap for a wizard with innate +1 who can be used to score some VPs as a monster. With 13 wounds he's also a good recipient for amulet of destiny and should be safe unless the enemy really focuses him -wich would be alright as he's not the most important of piece of the army.

As for allegiances yes, in one of the lists I do take staunch, in the other I wonder if high priest might be interesting if the TO allows moving after translocation.

[jhamslam]

15 minutes ago, Marcvs said:

The griffon (or the Ghur battlemage in genral) is there for their warscroll spell (wildform) which gives +2 to run/charge -mainly aimed at gotrek but potentially interesting on the Vindictors. Specifically the griffon is quite cheap for a wizard with innate +1 who can be used to score some VPs as a monster. With 13 wounds he's also a good recipient for amulet of destiny and should be safe unless the enemy really focuses him -wich would be alright as he's not the most important of piece of the army.

As for allegiances yes, in one of the lists I do take staunch, in the other I wonder if high priest might be interesting if the TO allows moving after translocation.

So i just went to the Gateway Open with OBR, the power lists atm are Morathi Bow Snakes, Kairos Archaon, Kairos PInky spam, Belakor Kairos , Gargants 

These consistently make it to the top. Its unlikely youll get your Ghur spell off against the mass of chaos wizards, not to mention Morathi and her +1 to cast. id say dedicate Gotrek to a lane more or less and dont really overextend into support for him. Better to just play critical spell denial with incantors . 

Imo ranged damage is a must, yes we can tank in melee, but being able to damage pieces without any kickback is necessary, im undecided on exactly how, but the ol' Anvils with the 6 Vanguard Raptors might not be a bad choice.

 

Edited August 24, 2021 by jhamslam

[jhamslam]

duplicate

Edited August 24, 2021 by jhamslam

[Marcvs]

15 hours ago, jhamslam said:

So i just went to the Gateway Open with OBR, the power lists atm are Morathi Bow Snakes, Kairos Archaon, Kairos PInky spam, Belakor Kairos , Gargants 

These consistently make it to the top. Its unlikely youll get your Ghur spell off against the mass of chaos wizards, not to mention Morathi and her +1 to cast. id say dedicate Gotrek to a lane more or less and dont really overextend into support for him. Better to just play critical spell denial with incantors . 

Imo ranged damage is a must, yes we can tank in melee, but being able to damage pieces without any kickback is necessary, im undecided on exactly how, but the ol' Anvils with the 6 Vanguard Raptors might not be a bad choice.

 

Yes, saw your best Death placement, congrats

Concerning top lists, yes, I don't think I would have much of a chance against some of those, although gotrek is a good counter to gargants. As for the magic, apart from auto unbinds from host arcanum and the loc/kairos ability, the others don't have bonuses to unbind higher than +1 which is countered by the Ghur wizard's +1 so I would at least have a chance. Still not sure about the investment mind you.

As for the shooting, yes I would really like to have some but I just don't think there's any efficient investment here. Spending 340 pts + artefact + command trait to get the 6 raptors shooting twice is not a good trade imho when you consider the better saves around. If targeting heroes essentially you'll always be shooting either at a 2+ big monster or at a 3+ with lookout sir (and you can't all out attack in the hero phase I think?) so I am really not sure of their impact -and they remain fragile without scions to keep them in the sky

Edited August 25, 2021 by Marcvs

[PrimeElectrid]

Hammers of Sigmar apparently get 6+ ward when wholly within 12 of an objectibe