Stormcast Eternals 3.0 - There is no "a" in Vindictors

[PJetski]

8 hours ago, Requizen said:

I've been thinking about it and my current thought is that, unless you're really looking for theme, there's nothing we need that COS provides. The only thing they do slighly better is mass volume attacks as opposed to our elite quality attacks, but that's not particularly worth the points. 

The main thing I personally would want is bodies, in case you're light on Redeemers or are going Scions of the Storm. At which case, why not just Ally Skinks instead of Cities? They're cheaper than any Cities unit, can take a ranged weapon, and are faster. They don't have the 4+ of some of the Cities Battleline, but that's not really why you bring a blobby ally imo. 

Plus, I've got Skinks painted the same scheme as my Stardrake and Dracothian Guard, so it'll look nice to have the whole family on the table again.

Regarding allies/coalition, so far I like:

• Battlemage is a source of re-roll hit1 or a +2 run/charge bonus (+1 to cast in Ghur) both of which are severely lacking from the Stormcast book. Can take a Universal Spell if you play STORMKEEPS
• Runelords are a 100pt +2 unbind/dispel and can take a Universal Prayer if you are playing STORMKEEP
• Luminark of Hysh with Wizard - More AOE mortal wounds, hilarious interaction with Unleash Hell, good spells
• Skink Starseer - Cheaper than most of our WIZARDS. Control Fate reduces enemy save rolls by 1, and he can generate command points
• Slann Starmaster - 3 spell +1 wizard for 265 points with a great signature spell. Also generates Command Points 
• Kharadron Gunhauler - Teleporting 10 wound cannon that combos with Ordinator

[CommissarRotke]

5 minutes ago, PJetski said:

Battlemage

All the other models you mentioned look nice, but I don't want to pay 40$ and use one Battlemage- do you use any alternatives? I could probably count the Delf Sorceress as one

[Requizen]

9 minutes ago, CommissarRotke said:

All the other models you mentioned look nice, but I don't want to pay 40$ and use one Battlemage- do you use any alternatives? I could probably count the Delf Sorceress as one

plenty of Wizard STLS if you have access to a 3D printer

[CommissarRotke]

13 minutes ago, Requizen said:

plenty of Wizard STLS if you have access to a 3D printer

oh great point, I'll check Etsy for printing shops

[Marcvs]

26 minutes ago, CommissarRotke said:

oh great point, I'll check Etsy for printing shops

even if you don't have a printer (or a friend-with-a-printer), plenty of shops online sell 3d prints at 1/4 - 1/5 of the price for a GW foot hero. I use this as my ghur battlemage

Spoiler

 

[CommissarRotke]

8 minutes ago, Marcvs said:

even if you don't have a printer (or a friend-with-a-printer), plenty of shops online sell 3d prints at 1/4 - 1/5 of the price for a GW foot hero. I use this as my ghur battlemage

  Reveal hidden contents

 

is 32mm or 28mm better for Cities/non-Stormcast proxies? only part i'm stuck on rn

[readercolin]

10 hours ago, Requizen said:

I've been thinking about it and my current thought is that, unless you're really looking for theme, there's nothing we need that COS provides. The only thing they do slighly better is mass volume attacks as opposed to our elite quality attacks, but that's not particularly worth the points. 

The main thing I personally would want is bodies, in case you're light on Redeemers or are going Scions of the Storm. At which case, why not just Ally Skinks instead of Cities? They're cheaper than any Cities unit, can take a ranged weapon, and are faster. They don't have the 4+ of some of the Cities Battleline, but that's not really why you bring a blobby ally imo. 

Plus, I've got Skinks painted the same scheme as my Stardrake and Dracothian Guard, so it'll look nice to have the whole family on the table again.

Going through the list of options the cities give you:

The battlemage is the first clear option that you would want to consider taking.  A clear winner is the Ghur battlemage, who gives you +2 to run/charge distance (and gets +1 to cast if you are playing matches from the GHB2021).  The Chamon battlemage can give you good game against the current herohammer meta, because it can halve the movement characteristic of a unit, and if they have a 2+/3+/4+ save, you can also re-roll hit rolls of 1 against that unit.  The Ghyran mage can give you a unit that your opponent really, really doesn't want to charge (especially a redeemer unit in a stormkeep) as they will take d3 mortal wounds for charging the unit from the spell on top of the potential d3 mortal wounds for charging a redeemer unit, and maybe even another d3 more if they were a liberator.  The other battlemages are... ok, but there are no real standouts there that you would want to take over a stormcast wizard.

Celestial Hurricanum.  This will give itself +1 to cast, any other battlemages +1 to cast, has a decent mortal wound ranged attack, and some decent mortal wound spells.  Overall, because the Portents of Battle ability doesn't affect stormcast (it does in the Cities because they gain the Cities keyword), it probably isn't the best option, but if you are really looking for some mortal wound output it is an ok choice.

Freeguild Crossbows.  These guys are something to consider if you just want to bring pure weight of dice to a list.  With a 24" range, they can castle up pretty decently, and a block of 30 of them is only going to set you back 315 points.  However, that block of 30 can put out 60 shots at a 4+/3+, for an average of 20 wounds before saves.  If we give them all out attack and Celestial blades (or bring a freeguild general for +1/+1), we can bump that up to an average of 33.33 before saves.  As nice as these numbers are, they aren't really all that impressive against anything with a save, but it is more something to consider bringing if your meta decided to ignore saves and just concentrate on putting as many wounds on the table as possible (ex. Zombies, Bonesplittaz, pink horrors, etc.).

Irondrakes (+ runelord).  You can bring 20 irondrakes and a runelord in your list for a mere 420 points.  Celestial Blades can give them +1 to wound, all out attack can give them +1 to hit, and the runelord can give them +1 rend (in addition to being able to unbind a spell at a +2).  This means you can have a block of irondrakes doing the exact same thing they do in the cities - murdering literally anything that looks at them funny, with an average of just under 30 damage to a 5+ save (or 15 to a 2+) per shooting phase.  Stick them behind a big block of Vindictors and laugh at your opponent as you tell them that this objective is very, very much yours.

Gyrocopter/bomber.  First things first, they are cheap, and they are fast.  Gyrocopters can be a decent hedge against horde armies, and bombers can fly over things to give mortal wounds.  Both are more units that you take as filler because you have some spare points though.

Frostheart Phoenix w/ Annointed.  At 12 wounds with a 4+ save, an easy way to get a +1 (cast a spell near him), a 4+ ward save, and a -1 to wound in melee aura, this guy is a solid addition to any army.  He is a big monster, and he is durable enough to give stormcast units a run for their money, as well as being super fast with his base 16" move.  I would use him as an escort for a fast moving force (ex. evokitties), or you can send him out on his own to harrass, and he can generally hold out unless your opponent throws literally their whole army at him.  And yes, I have had a frostheart survive a turn or two when my opponent threw literally their entire army at him.

Phoenix Guard.  A block of 20 of these guys will set you back 350 points, but with a 4+ save, a 4+ ward, and a 3+/3+/-1/1 profile, they can both do work and hold out for a long time.  Especially if you back them up with the Emerald Lifeswarm.  I would have given these guys a solid A+ for stormkeep usage before this book came out, because they count as so many more models on the objectives.  However, with the new stormkeep rules of redeemers counting for more, point for point a redeemer unit is going to be a better objective holder than Phoenix Guard.  If you already have phoenix guard, consider bringing them - but I would no longer recommend going out to get some just to put in your Stormkeep army.

Shadow Warriors.  These guys are another threat that you can have in reserve, and if you go a stormkeep, allows you to keep a little bit of play with reserve units.  I would only really consider bringing them if you are bringing the Celestant Prime, as a unit that can sneak objectives away if the opponent leaves them exposed, but it is still something to keep in mind.

Overall, if I was running a Scions of the Storm army, I can only bring Cities units as allies.  In this case, my top ally choices would be the Ghur Battlemage to help me re-position units after coming down, the Frostheart as a fast moving tank that can quickly move up to support the Scions units, or the Phoenix Guard so I can put 20 models on an objective to help me hold it when I don't have the Stormkeep rules to help me do so.

If I was running a Stormkeep army, I would still consider the battlemage, though now I'm debating more between Ghur and Ghyran.  Second choice would probably be the Irondrake package, followed by the Frostheart Phoenix again.  4th choice would be the Phoenix guard, and only if I was planning to bring the Emerald Lifeswarm along with them.  Other options are a bit more situational, or more for flavor than for actual usefulness.

Edited September 17, 2021 by readercolin

[Marcvs]

21 minutes ago, CommissarRotke said:

is 32mm or 28mm better for Cities/non-Stormcast proxies? only part i'm stuck on rn

I just went for 32mm, it's surely a bit bigger than standard city stuff but it fits better among stormcasts (and he's a hero after all). Took a quick pic, had to use the flash cause my cabinet is in a dark corner, sister of the watch on the left, some sort of space marine (which I use as a castellant) on the right

Spoiler

 

[PJetski]

2 minutes ago, readercolin said:

Irondrakes (+ runelord).  You can bring 20 irondrakes and a runelord in your list for a mere 420 points.  Celestial Blades can give them +1 to wound, all out attack can give them +1 to hit, and the runelord can give them +1 rend (in addition to being able to unbind a spell at a +2).  This means you can have a block of irondrakes doing the exact same thing they do in the cities - murdering literally anything that looks at them funny, with an average of just under 30 damage to a 5+ save per shooting phase.  Stick them behind a big block of Vindictors and laugh at your opponent as you tell them that this objective is very, very much yours.

Celestial Blades only effects STORMCAST ETERNAL units, and only melee attacks.

[Marcvs]

3 minutes ago, readercolin said:

Irondrakes (+ runelord).  You can bring 20 irondrakes and a runelord in your list for a mere 420 points.  Celestial Blades can give them +1 to wound, all out attack can give them +1 to hit, and the runelord can give them +1 rend (in addition to being able to unbind a spell at a +2).  This means you can have a block of irondrakes doing the exact same thing they do in the cities - murdering literally anything that looks at them funny, with an average of just under 30 damage to a 5+ save per shooting phase.  Stick them behind a big block of Vindictors and laugh at your opponent as you tell them that this objective is very, very much yours.

Can't use celestial blades (only STORMCAST ETERNALS unit). There are preciously few things in the book which synergise with CoS units: Tauralon, Yndrasta (battleshock immunity), Ordinator (for warmachines).

As for irondrakes: without the bridge the are much less interesting and while in cities it's pretty easy to have large bonuses to cast to guarantee it (innate +1, hurricanum etc), we are limited to krondhys for a wizard with a decent bonus.

[CommissarRotke]

9 minutes ago, Marcvs said:

I just went for 32mm, it's surely a bit bigger than standard city stuff but it fits better among stormcasts (and he's a hero after all). Took a quick pic, had to use the flash cause my cabinet is in a dark corner, sister of the watch on the left, some sort of space marine (which I use as a castellant) on the right

  Hide contents

 

I was surprised that the Sister was about as tall as the 32mm mage, then saw the rock 😅 thanks for the pic! will try to find some others for further comparison. 

Edited September 17, 2021 by CommissarRotke

[SchleuderMann2]

some questions about the Lord Relictor: can he chant translocate and one of his Warscroll prayers?

or can he now use both of his warscrollprayers at the same time? and does his plus 1 to chant also count for warscroll prayers. Unfortunately my battletome hasnt come yet...

[Drofnum]

1 hour ago, CommissarRotke said:

is 32mm or 28mm better for Cities/non-Stormcast proxies? only part i'm stuck on rn

Its going to depend entirely on the sculpt honestly.  I back a ton of folks on patreon for models and there is a pretty big variety in sizes even for the ones that claim to print in the same scale. Easiest would be to get direct comparison pics next to other models for whatever you're looking to buy.

I cant count the amount of models i've had to scale up or down by small amounts to fit in with my other models.

Edited September 17, 2021 by Drofnum

[OkayestDM]

27 minutes ago, SchleuderMann2 said:

some questions about the Lord Relictor: can he chant translocate and one of his Warscroll prayers?

or can he now use both of his warscrollprayers at the same time? and does his plus 1 to chant also count for warscroll prayers. Unfortunately my battletome hasnt come yet...

The Lord Relictor can only chant one prayer. He gets a +1 bonus to his prayer roll, making his prayers more reliable. 

You could give him the Translocate prayer as an enhancement, meaning that he would have 3 different prayers to choose from, though still could only chant one.

Edited September 17, 2021 by OkayestDM

[Balthasar]

Do you think that the start collecting Stormcast Thunderstrike Brotherhood is woth it with this new battletome ? 

The liberator are good, Lord-Relictor very good, Vandus is OK, Prosecutor meh. 

I don't have any of these units because I have a lot of Sacrosanct units.

[Paul_Veyne]

3 hours ago, Starfyre said:

I’ve always liked Phoenix guard in my stormcast army, for the 4+ ward and provide bodies which is something we lacked (though stormkeep rules help with that). I even converted mine to have sce helmets (female ones because the male ones are massive on their slight elves frames) and replaced the spear tips with vanguard sword blades to give myself ‘baby stormcast’ as a mate put it.

Super resilient and helps stop my mate’s rampaging terrorghiest and flayers.

I would love to see those!

[jeanfluflu]

8 minutes ago, Balthasar said:

Do you think that the start collecting Stormcast Thunderstrike Brotherhood is woth it with this new battletome ? 

The liberator are good, Lord-Relictor very good, Vandus is OK, Prosecutor meh. 

I don't have any of these units because I have a lot of Sacrosanct units.

In tempest lord prosecutors are battleline so yes, only problem is the good ones are the ones with javelin, you ave the ones with hammers here so it will recquire a bit of conversion to make things good but you'll get some lances and shields with the vindictors so why not.

3+ save battleline that can shoot decently, fly and charge at 18" with 3d6 yes please!

Vandus is meh but can serve as a nice additional concussor if needed.

Edited September 17, 2021 by jeanfluflu

[readercolin]

1 hour ago, Marcvs said:

Can't use celestial blades (only STORMCAST ETERNALS unit). There are preciously few things in the book which synergise with CoS units: Tauralon, Yndrasta (battleshock immunity), Ordinator (for warmachines).

As for irondrakes: without the bridge the are much less interesting and while in cities it's pretty easy to have large bonuses to cast to guarantee it (innate +1, hurricanum etc), we are limited to krondhys for a wizard with a decent bonus.

The downsides of trying to read off youtube videos - I would probably have caught this if I had my battletome, but that doesn't come in till tomorrow (hopefully... though I haven't gotten any shipping notices...).

However, I do want to note that while Irondrakes are good for Alpha with the Bridge, I don't personally feel that the bridge is as vital now as it used to be.  1/3 of the battleplans have 3 objectives in a line across the center of the board (ether horizontally or diagonally), another 1/3 of the battleplans have some sort of objective in the center of the board that you are fighting over, and the last 1/3 have either 4 or 6 objectives 1/4 of the way up the board.  This means that in 1/3 of the battleplans, if you just move up and park your Irondrakes behind some redeemers, you can make a castle that your opponents HAVE to come in range of, another 1/3 where your opponents are likely going to need to come in range of, and 1/3 where having a big castle isn't quite as good.

Basically, I think you can get your points worth out of irondrakes now even without the bridge, whether you are running as cities or as stormcast, especially when you compare their shooting to an equivalent number of points of Stormcast shooting.  20 Irondrakes + runelord without any bonuses to hit/wound are going to give you an average of 18.67 damage before saves if the stay put, or 9.33 if they do move.  For about the same number of points, you can bring 10 judicators, which is going to give you an average of 11.56 damage before saves, or 6 vanguard raptors for an average of 14 damage before saves.  This shows us that the irondrakes shooting isn't particularly worse than the other good shooting options if they move, while having the option to be significantly better if they can stay put.  They are also going to be counting as a lot more bodies on the objectives, have a 4+ save just like their stormcast counterparts, have a +1 save vs shooting attacks, and you are also bringing a hero along for those points as well that is giving you prayers and an unbind at +2.

[Sleepa]

8 hours ago, Malakithe said:

Anyone dreaming up a thundercats list? Or is everyone distracted by those flying lizards?

I wish I could justify a Thundercat build in my theory crafting. They just didn't get the tweaks they needed to have enough punch to justify their fragility compared to the Dracoth Paladins (And dragons). Rend -1 and 0 on their weapons is just... obsolete now in my opinion. Unless they were to drop to about the price of desolators. For that price I'd take the lack of rend and defense for the volume of offensive output they can offer.

[Sleepa]

I think I want to try something like this as a small skirmish control kind of list:

Army Type: Scions of the Storm
Subfaction: Knights Excelsior
Points Limit: 2000 pts
General: Lord-Relictor
Grand Strategy: Hold the Line
Triumph: Bloodthirsty
Holy Commands: Unleash Thy Hatred

Core Battalions Warlord
Lord-Relictor (General)
Battalion Slot Filled: Commander
Command Traits: High Priest (Or Shock and Awe)
Artefacts of Power: Arcane Tome
Prayers: Translocation Points Cost: 145 pts
Lord-Imperatant
Battalion Slot Filled: Sub-commander
Artefacts of Power: Mirrorshield
Points Cost: 175 pts
Yndrasta
Battalion Slot Filled: Sub-commander
Points Cost: 320 pts
Praetors
Battalion Slot Filled: Troops
Points Cost: 165 pts

Hunters of the Heartlands
Annihilators
Battalion Slot Filled: Troops
Points Cost: 200 pts
Annihilators
Battalion Slot Filled: Troops
Points Cost: 200 pts
Annihilators with Meteoric Grandhammers
Battalion Slot Filled: Troops
Points Cost: 240 pts

Redemption Brotherhood
Retributors
Battalion Slot Filled: Troops
Points Cost: 235 pts
Castigators
Battalion Slot Filled: Troops
Points Cost: 105 pts
Castigators
Battalion Slot Filled: Troops
Points Cost: 105 pts
Castigators
Battalion Slot Filled: Troops
Points Cost: 105 pts

Total Points: 1995 pts

Edited September 17, 2021 by Sleepa

[Sleepa]

Hey here's a question: If you make a hero in your army a wizard with the arcane tome, do they then get to choose a spell from the spell lore? Or do they only get to know Arcane bolt and mystic shield?

[LordPrometheus]

Just now, Sleepa said:

Hey here's a question: If you make a hero in your army a wizard with the arcane tome, do they then get to choose a spell from the spell lore? Or do they only get to know Arcane bolt and mystic shield?

I'm 99% sure they get to pick from the lore, just like every other Wizard does. The rules for Wizards say they get to pick.

[PJetski]

6 minutes ago, Sleepa said:

Hey here's a question: If you make a hero in your army a wizard with the arcane tome, do they then get to choose a spell from the spell lore?

Yup

I'm enjoying using Lord-Castellant with Arcane Tome to give a unit +2 to saves by himself

Edited September 17, 2021 by PJetski

[Txxmxx]

2 hours ago, Balthasar said:

Do you think that the start collecting Stormcast Thunderstrike Brotherhood is woth it with this new battletome ? 

The liberator are good, Lord-Relictor very good, Vandus is OK, Prosecutor meh. 

I don't have any of these units because I have a lot of Sacrosanct units.

Unless you don't want to dip your toes into cleaning models and you'd rather build them NOS, I'd say you'd save a pretty big chuck of money just buying the Lord-Relictor and Liberators used, clean them and paint them to your scheme. They used to be part of the initial 1.0 launch box and as such are very common in the aftermarket. More money in your pockets to focus on your list afterwards rather than having a couple extra nice sculpts that might never see the table 😃

[CommissarRotke]

I keep looking at Xandire to figure out what went so wrong with her head and I think I figured it out... does anyone else think what I highlighted is actually her hair painted gold? I can't for the life of me settle on what tf they wanted this part of her head to be!