Stormcast Eternals 3.0 - There is no "a" in Vindictors

[jeanfluflu]

11 minutes ago, Marcvs said:

you see, that's a good example. It's a nice list, super cool on the table and surely fun to play.

but: the allegiance abilities are almost pointless, you're not getting anything from stormkeep so go scions by default but everything is fast and probably benefits starting on the table (minus the prime, but he goes in reserve thanks to the warscroll). True, you have basically maximized the effect of the sub-allegiance and all you have to remember for your faction rules is... reroll one die on the charge?

idk, it's not... exciting? interesting? (again, not a matter of being strong or not)

the only subfaction that has a definitive impact on your list building is knight excellsior i believe.
The bonus is so good that you want to build your army arround it, using imperatant/annihilators/protectors.

I agree with you though, it has overall much lees impact on the list building than before, but it's not that bad as it opens customisation and synergies based on "ultimate" command abilities and custom heroes (which is coherent with the mindset of the 3rd edition).

[The World Tree]

Something doesn't has to directly interact with the allegiance ability to synergise with it.

So many units benefit from Scions - it protects yor units, it keeps your opponent guessing, changes their behaviour, it allows you to place your shooting units where they need to, allows you to place characters in buff range (outside of 9).

 

[Marcvs]

8 minutes ago, The World Tree said:

Something doesn't has to directly interact with the allegiance ability to synergise with it.

So many units benefit from Scions - it protects yor units, it keeps your opponent guessing, changes their behaviour, it allows you to place your shooting units where they need to, allows you to place characters in buff range (outside of 9).

 

sure, I even mentioned it in my post. Even maximizing scions, 50% of your army will have very little to no interaction with allegiance abilities.

Of course someone will tell me: but all your army is impacted by the fact that some units will come down from the sky, in terms of positioning etc. Which is fair, I guess, but still feels a very thin layer of rules (once you're down, it's back to bare warscrolls for the rest of the game).

[Martijn de Bruin]

1 hour ago, PrimeElectrid said:

 

Now I’m not so blinded by dragons it has sunk in that there’s only one way for melee units to interact with Scions of the Storm and that’s limited to one unit per turn, Thunderstrike only, with an Imperatant.

Once at a time is par for the course with this book, but I guess unlike with Gavriel you can keep doing this while you have stuff in Scions, whereas Sureheart was a one and done.

The Thunderstrike restriction is frustrating however, and it feels bad that there’s still only one way to buff a unit charge out of Scions. Just as before it was do it with Gav and Evocators or don’t bother, now it’s do it with Annihilators and an Imperatant or don’t bother. At least now we have an alternative in Stormkeeps, but why isn’t there more choice to interact with what is an allegiance ability? This was my exact same complaint with the 2nd Ed book and they’ve just repeated it with different units.

Agree, these rules are very bland and pidgeon-holing us into certain unit combinations.

Something I`m noticing in the new strategies/tactics and batallions is the use of a certain set of keywords:

cities of sigmar
redeemer
stardrake
dracoth
draconith

It feels like they just forgot that there units in there with other keywords that have 0 interaction with these strategies/tactics etc.

i.e. keywords like dracoline, gryph-chargers, sacrosanct etc. 🤨

unless I missed the fact evocators on dracoline now also have the keyword dracoth/draconith? 😆

[Yor]

3 hours ago, Marcvs said:

Every list I write / consider I am amazed by how many units will basically play with their bare warscroll (i.e. getting nothing from allegiance / sub allegiance).

Go hallowed knights, go stormkeep: everything that is not a REDEEMER is bare warscroll.
Go knights Excelsior, go scions: everything that is not in reserve and not a paladin is bare warscroll

and so on. It all feels... bland (not speaking of power levels here).

The main Stormcast allegiance ability now is Blaze of Glory, and all your SCE benefit from it, so they are not playing with their bare warscoll at all. It influences your playstyle, the same way Scions and Stormkeep do. You might choose to go aggressive with Scions or play the long game with a Stormkeep. Subfactions are there to reinforce your theme and playstyle and influence list building. I'd say they work in quite an elegant way.
 

2 hours ago, Mark Williams said:

 I agree with the point made that we got a slight bump to an overall pretty bad tome. I do think the water rose, and I’m sure happy about that. But yes it feels like they sorta nerfed everything that used to work, just enough so that we need to buy a bunch of new stuff if we want the good stuff. It feels like the marketing strategy is more transparent than ever here.

Don’t get me wrong though. I preordered everything. Haha. I can’t wait to get my mitts on some new dragons.

 

I have mostly Sacrosanct sprinkled with some OldCasts. Beyond being disappointed with the now useless Knight Venator, I'm quite happy with most of the new warscrolls and I think I can build different and interesting lists. I really liked the new Vigilors, but I won't get them as they are a tad lackluster and I can't find a place for them in my lists. Also, I would have gotten the drakes even if they had the Venator's warscroll. So I guess the marketing strategy is so transparent I can't see it at all.

It's cool to be critic and all, and I can see how this book is far from awesome and some choices are dissappointing. But it is quite solid overall and its shortcomings are more likely related to trying to balance 70+ warscrolls in an early book that has to be strong enough without invalidating older tomes.

Edited September 15, 2021 by Yor

[Turragor]

Here's how its going to pan out.

It's going to be drakecast - until that (and this is hard to foresee at the moment) puts SCE as 1st place and another 2 spots in the top 5 in a major tournament and a plethora of 5-0 streaks at a large mix of tournament sizes.

I'm predicting this as while Im a slow painter, these drakes are going to be easy to paint for a lot of competent players and you need 4 - 8 or something (with hero and bonus lizards) to be a really strong Dragon oriented list. So a critical mass of fully painted Dragon armies is only a few weeks out from when these kits are released. It's actually frightening, if beautiful. I don't think GW have done this before?

Stonehorns and SoB are the nearest comparison and I think our wing after wing of sexy dragon lists will be better than those.

EVEN SO, the meta will start to adjust and these lists will start going to 4-1 and top 3 at a handful of tournaments. They are not unstoppable warscrolls right? Do we really think some of the strong lists out there now are going to fear dragons? I hope so, I really want what I wrote earlier to come true...

However, I don't think we've got a 40k Drukhari situation on our hands here, far from it.

EVEN SO, they Drakes will be nerfed by a points cost bump (say 300 per 2) that brings drakes down to a 4-1 under a good player, until newer releases and evolving competitions make it a 3-2 (4-1 in outstandingly lucky matchups).

At that point the SCE community will feel lightened - freed - from the beautiful tyrrany of unstoppable dragons and we'll be able to explore other options in the book. I know many are saying it's thin on options but I think the warscroll range we have between scions and keeps should make things very tinker-friendly.

At that point enough books and options will be out that we're all a bit upset by what theyve done with the first true 3.0 tome and we'll need a reboot to compete apart from some special, interesting builds that do something hella odd. Like "Stormcast The Fast and The Furious Azyr Chariot Drift" with just chariots and Lord Relictors or something...

Edited September 15, 2021 by Turragor

[The World Tree]

I'm far less convinced by Drakes compared to other people. They certainly pack a punch, but I have some skepticism of how they'll perform on the table. I dont think they'll be the powerhouses everyone is framing them as - though from an internal balance POV they seem slightly undercosted. They'll be better in moderation imo. 

The single best rule in the book is the counting for three models on objectives - this is a game winning ability, if you are set up to use it.

Also - I'll keep banging the vanguard hunter drum. They are brilliant.

Edited September 15, 2021 by The World Tree

[SchleuderMann2]

can anyone explain me what douple tapped judicators mean?

[jeanfluflu]

10 minutes ago, SchleuderMann2 said:

can anyone explain me what douple tapped judicators mean?

there's a specific command ability in the book that allows you to select a unit and shoot during hero phase.

Double tapped judicators means that you use this ability on them, making shoot twice: one during hero phase, one during shooting phase.

[Elephant_fresh]

55 minutes ago, Yor said:

The main Stormcast allegiance ability now is Blaze of Glory, and all your SCE benefit from it, so they are not playing with their bare warscoll at all. It influences your playstyle, the same way Scions and Stormkeep do. You might choose to go aggressive with Scions or play the long game with a Stormkeep. Subfactions are there to reinforce your theme and playstyle and influence list building. I'd say they work in quite an elegant way.

I have mostly Sacrosanct sprinkled with some OldCasts. Beyond being disappointed with the now useless Knight Venator, I'm quite happy with most of the new warscrolls and I think I can build different and interesting lists. I really liked the new Vigilors, but I won't get them as they are a tad lackluster and I can't find a place for them in my lists. Also, I would have gotten the drakes even if they had the Venator's warscroll. So I guess the marketing strategy is so transparent I can't see it at all.

It's cool to be critic and all, and I can see how this book is far from awesome and some choices are dissappointing. But it is quite solid overall and its shortcomings are more likely related to trying to balance 70+ warscrolls in an early book that has to be strong enough without invalidating older tomes.

I admire the positivity but I really don't understand how you can call the book quite solid overall. We have very situational allegiance abilities, inconsequential stormhosts and bland warscrolls with few if any synergies.

At least when stormcast dropped last edition they had a brief moment in the sun before other books left it behind. This time around it seems dead on arrival (dragons excepted of course).

I am curious though, how would you build an interesting list with Sacrosanct units?

[SchleuderMann2]

3 minutes ago, jeanfluflu said:

there's a specific command ability in the book that allows you to select a unit and shoot during hero phase.

Double tapped judicators means that you use this ability on them, making shoot twice: one during hero phase, one during shooting phase.

Thank you

[PJetski]

4 hours ago, PrimeElectrid said:

I don’t think you get any real benefit from Azyrite Halo without reroll saves. It’s also melee only now so meh.

Swap Celestial Blades to the Incantor and give the Tauralon the 5++ IMO.

Incorrect, Azyrite Halo works on all attacks not just melee.

It's there to put on my 0+ Save Protectors to help deal damage to high volume melee attackers. I'll mostly be casting Mystic Shield instead.

Gardus gives everyone a 5+ Ward, so the Amulet is only beneficial if the Tauralon is out on his own. That's got some value, but it's a decision that will be made after playtesting.

4 hours ago, jeanfluflu said:

Tauralon is not worth it anymore, unless you pick aventis he's a one cast sorcerer.

I disagree, he is more worthwhile than he ever was in 2nd edition. Comet Trail is great and he is a cheap 12" 3+ flying MONSTER HERO that also casts a spell while potentially buffing your whole army. He is a "Jack of all trades, master of none" type of unit, but in a good way

6 hours ago, Nizrah said:

But wait. From Sacrosant:

Seqitors - better 

Evocats - better 

Evocators - worse but they were bonkers and probably deserved it 

Castigators - better 

Balist - better 

Ordynator - better 

Exorcist - better 

Every incarnation of Lord Arcanum - better 

So what are you talking about? 

Here's my $0.02 on this topic

Sequitors are worse, but only because of their price. They need to drop down to 130 points to compete with Vindictors.

Evocators on Dracolines are better. They deal more damage with Lightning Arc but lost 2" range on Grandstaves so they aren't good in 1x6. They're fine to run in 1x3 or 2x3 because they can buff Castigators and Ballistas with Empower when they're not engaging in melee, and they have the mobility to break out a castle formation to contest objectives.

Evocators are strictly worse, and now compete with many good PALADIN units that do the same role. 

Castigators went from garbage to usable. Probably the biggest improvement in the whole book.

Incantor is worse, but still has a dispel scroll so you put 1 in every list

Ballista seem better. Single shot is good, rapid fire is a bit worse. Overall a net benefit - we have many other sources of good 18" shooting.

Ordinator is slightly better.

Exorcist is much better, but overpriced

Arcanum on foot is worse. Arcanum on Dracoline about the same. Arcanum on Tauralon is much more useful. Arcanum on GC is about the same.

[jeanfluflu]

4 minutes ago, PJetski said:

I disagree, he is more worthwhile than he ever was in 2nd edition. Comet Trail is great and he is a cheap 12" 3+ flying MONSTER HERO that also casts a spell while potentially buffing your whole army. He is a "Jack of all trades, master of none" type of unit, but in a good way

I'll try him but at 280pts he's competing with the knight dracothian, Bastian, Yndrasta or the celestant prime but can't bring nearly as much on the table than any of these 4.

I know he's a monster/hero/sorcerer which makes him really good on paper but his offensive stats are meh for his price, so you won't send him on the melee (but you will do that with pleasure with your rend 3 knight draconis/celestant Prime).
He can tank for sure and could probably be used for that (thinking abour drakescale armor on this 12wounds character is nice).

He can only cast and unbind one spell without any bonus, in this situation you will more likely pay a high price for an ability that can be shut down really easily.
His comet trail ability is good yes, it saves you one command point per turn but some other units can do that too (aetherwings, lord ordinator or even Bastian who can give all out attack for free).

I love this miniature trust me (i spent days converting this man to give him a proper face and wings) and i'd like to see him get some usage but the loss of his spirit flasks, the mortal wound on the charge and one cast/unbind without drastically downgrading his price at all is really a huge nerf.
I'll probably consider him at 235pts but not 285pts.

If i'm spending nearly 300pts on a character i'd rather go the entire way and pay the 40pts difference to get Aventis instead:
the fact that he can natively heal himself of D3PV each turn gives his tanking capacity an extra edge, for 40pts you get a second cast/unbind and finally his spell is rather short but deals MW without requiring a 4+ to hit before.

This said i agree with you on your comments for the rest of the sacro sanct chamber, except for the exorcist maybe, i'd love to hear why you think the exorcist is better, i'd pay an incantor over this guy every day but maybe i missed something.

[PJetski]

1 minute ago, jeanfluflu said:

I'll try him but at 280pts he's competing with the knight dracothian, Bastian, Yndrasta or the celestant prime but can't bring nearly as much on the table than any of these 4.

I know he's a monster/hero/sorcerer which makes him really good on paper but his offensive stats are meh for his price, so you won't send him on the melee (but you will do that with pleasure with your rend 3 knight draconis/celestant Prime).
He can tank for sure and could probably be used for that (thinking abour drakescale armor on this 12wounds character is nice).

He can only cast and unbind one spell without any bonus, in this situation you will more likely pay a high price for an ability that can be shut down really easily.
His comet trail ability is good yes, it saves you one command point per turn but some other units can do that too (aetherwings, lord ordinator or even Bastian who can give all out attack for free).

I love this miniature trust me (i spent days converting this man to give him a proper face and wings) and i'd like to see him get some usage but the loss of his spirit flasks, the mortal wound on the charge and one cast/unbind without drastically downgrading his price at all is really a huge nerf.
I'll probably consider him at 235pts but not 285pts.

If i'm spending nearly 300pts on a character i'd rather go the entire way and pay the 40pts difference to get Aventis instead:
the fact that he can natively heal himself of D3PV each turn gives his tanking capacity an extra edge, for 40pts you get a second cast/unbind and finally his spell is rather short but deals MW without requiring a 4+ to hit before.

This said i agree with you on your comments for the rest of the sacro sanct chamber, except for the exorcist maybe, i'd love to hear why you think the exorcist is better, i'd pay an incantor over this guy every day but maybe i missed something.

He doesn't fit in every list, but so far I have found room for him in a Stormdrake MONSTER mash list (see the Drakecast thread) and the Hallowstrike list I posted earlier.

I could never find room for him in any list in 2nd ed, even when using Astral Templars and 4x Ballista he didn't make the cut.

Part of his appeal is MONSTER keyword for scoring Battle Tactics. He is basically worth 2 victory points every game just by being there if your list has no other MONSTER.

[jeanfluflu]

8 minutes ago, PJetski said:

He doesn't fit in every list, but so far I have found room for him in a Stormdrake MONSTER mash list (see the Drakecast thread) and the Hallowstrike list I posted earlier.

I could never find room for him in any list in 2nd ed, even when using Astral Templars and 4x Ballista he didn't make the cut.

Part of his appeal is MONSTER keyword for scoring Battle Tactics. He is basically worth 2 victory points every game just by being there if your list has no other MONSTER.

I've taken a look at your list and yes i haven't considered this.
The monster keyword allows him to benefit from the -1 to be wounded if you take him with a knight draconis, he's a mix of utility and tanking, in this type of build i'll try him

[Bululu]

5 hours ago, PrimeElectrid said:

It’s max one VP per player turn however, and 9W on a 3+ is not trivial to get through- especially if you go first and nuke their main damage unit on the off.

Isn't it max one VP per Round? so max 5?, and you can get easy extra points/tactics by having the monsters and you wont probably lose a dragon/round, you are giving more likely 3-4 points wich i think you can get back by doing the extra monsters VPs

[CommissarRotke]

6 hours ago, Elephant_fresh said:

That's exactly what I'm saying though. Stormdrake guard and Knight Draconis together overshadow almost everything else in the book. You could take just about any 285 chunk of the book and ask "would stormdrake guard be better?" and the answer would be "probably".

 

Taking Stormdrake out of this equation, what does this book look like? Idk, part of the disappointments feel like they stem from everyone focusing on the new dragons. If we're not comparing unit changes to dragons, how do they feel??

Points suck for some of the heroes but they're the quickest changes so while I'm disappointed at overcosting, if GW doesn't fix it I can always ask my opponent for some leeway since I prefer casual/narrative games. I'm most disappointed at how flat so many of the Stormhost abilities feel.

[jeanfluflu]

8 minutes ago, CommissarRotke said:

Taking Stormdrake out of this equation, what does this book look like? Idk, part of the disappointments feel like they stem from everyone focusing on the new dragons. If we're not comparing unit changes to dragons, how do they feel??

Points suck for some of the heroes but they're the quickest changes so while I'm disappointed at overcosting, if GW doesn't fix it I can always ask my opponent for some leeway since I prefer casual/narrative games. I'm most disappointed at how flat so many of the Stormhost abilities feel.

I think the removal of character abilities and stormhost abilities is a good sign overall.

These type of things have ruined the game balance in the past and i am optimistic for the future battletome to come if they follow the same logic.
Book seems balanced and fun, lost of ways to play (paladins, dragon builds, vanguard chamber TP all over the place, stormkeeep...etc) it give a very very good replayability to old players who have a nice collection of miniatures and i think is more simple of approach for new players.

definitely a win, beside a couple of named characters that got trashed on the rest seems balanced and a couple of points adjustments will make things better in the future :).

[CommissarRotke]

2 hours ago, Yor said:

I have mostly Sacrosanct sprinkled with some OldCasts. Beyond being disappointed with the now useless Knight Venator, I'm quite happy with most of the new warscrolls and I think I can build different and interesting lists. I really liked the new Vigilors, but I won't get them as they are a tad lackluster and I can't find a place for them in my lists. Also, I would have gotten the drakes even if they had the Venator's warscroll. So I guess the marketing strategy is so transparent I can't see it at all.

Rule of Cool it- Venator still looks amazing, Vigilors look great so if you want them and have the cash why not?

We have so many units I'm wondering if there isn't a strategy to take one of each, that'd do decently well. (aside from overcosted units)

2 hours ago, Yor said:

It's cool to be critic and all, and I can see how this book is far from awesome and some choices are dissappointing. But it is quite solid overall and its shortcomings are more likely related to trying to balance 70+ warscrolls in an early book that has to be strong enough without invalidating older tomes.

I have the same feeling; we're probably relegated to this cycle and that's fine to prevent Marine-syndrome. Overall I'd say the rules are positive changes for me, especially since I can make the properly defensive Stormkeep list I wanted in 2.0. The lore will be what makes or breaks this tome for me since I'm not competitive.

2 hours ago, Turragor said:

At that point the SCE community will feel lightened - freed - from the beautiful tyrrany of unstoppable dragons and we'll be able to explore other options in the book. I know many are saying it's thin on options but I think the warscroll range we have between scions and keeps should make things very tinker-friendly.

 

Heavy agree: I want the dragons for hobbying but I'm going to make lists without leaning heavily on them. Many things feel lackluster right now, both objectively and because other factions still have their 2.0 books. 

2 hours ago, Turragor said:

At that point enough books and options will be out that we're all a bit upset by what theyve done with the first true 3.0 tome and we'll need a reboot to compete apart from some special, interesting builds that do something hella odd. Like "Stormcast The Fast and The Furious Azyr Chariot Drift" with just chariots and Lord Relictors or something...

I am hoping other 3.0 books get the same middling treatment to prevent power creep + encourage tinkering. Since this is Year of the Beast I'd be extremely surprised if KO or someone(s) did NOT get a new anti-large kit, Something is coming to make the SDG not look OP.

[PrimeElectrid]

33 minutes ago, CommissarRotke said:

Taking Stormdrake out of this equation, what does this book look like? Idk, part of the disappointments feel like they stem from everyone focusing on the new dragons. If we're not comparing unit changes to dragons, how do they feel??

Points suck for some of the heroes but they're the quickest changes so while I'm disappointed at overcosting, if GW doesn't fix it I can always ask my opponent for some leeway since I prefer casual/narrative games. I'm most disappointed at how flat so many of the Stormhost abilities feel.

Imperatant/Annihilator Hammer bomb with Shield Annihilator spam in KE looks very attractive, usual caveats about Scions nonwithstanding. I’m committed to a monster mash army this edition, but if I wasn’t I’d be looking at this.

Charging Fulminators are also monstrous, there’s definitely an “alternate dragon” list here running them as battleline with Dracoths or Stardrakes.

Gardus HK Redeemer spam in Cities also seems promising in objective scoring. In and of itself if doesn’t have damage though (notably the mega checklist) so needs rounding out. Pack of Dracolines might go well in here actually.

Edited September 15, 2021 by PrimeElectrid

[Sleepa]

I was discussing the "Streamlined" warscrolls with someone in Discord last night, and we agreed that the lack of functional redesign on a number of older (Pre-2.0) warscrolls (Especially some of the hero scrolls) is probably indicative of GW wanting to phase out the moulds and retire the models. Obviously it would have been a shock to retire a number of GOOD hero warscrolls out of nowhere (If they just cut the Azyros, Heraldor, Venator etc.. from this tome) and would have caused an uproar. But if they just gut those scrolls and give nobody a reason to buy any for the next 3 years, they can quietly phase the moulds out by the next book they print.

The other thing that really rubbed us the wrong was was (as previously mentioned in this thread) the abundance of references to a very finite number of keywords in our allegiance abilities, traits, artifacts and Holy Commands. Draconith get like 30% of the keyword-specific references, and Redeemer get something like 40%. Then Paladin and then just a tiny bit of Justicar, Angelos and... Cities of Sigmar. 

It's truly confounding that out battletome has an utter garbage battle tactic that EXCLUSIVELY REQUIRES cities of sigmar units to accomplish.

Edited September 15, 2021 by Sleepa

[Frowny]

Are people worries about bleeding VPs with the dragon heavy lists? They are solid but they aren't indestructible at only 9 wounds you will lose several. Some lists I'm seeing can easily.be giving up 5 VPs just from losing drake knights. That's enough to win the battle but lose the war.

 

[PrimeElectrid]

Just now, Frowny said:

Are people worries about bleeding VPs with the dragon heavy lists? They are solid but they aren't indestructible at only 9 wounds you will lose several. Some lists I'm seeing can easily.be giving up 5 VPs just from losing drake knights. That's enough to win the battle but lose the war.

 

Put them in units of 4. Problem solved.

Current mood: 

Army Name: Dragons
Army Faction: Stormcast Eternals
Army Type: Stormkeep
Subfaction: Hammers of Sigmar
Battlepack: Pitched Battles
Points Limit: 2000 pts

Core Battalions
    Battle Regiment
        Knight-Draconis (General)
            Battalion Slot Filled: Commander
            Battlefield Role: Leader
            Points Cost: 255 pts
        Stormdrake Guard 
            Battalion Slot Filled: Troops
            Battlefield Role: Other
            Reinforced: Once
            Points Cost: 570 pts
        Stormdrake Guard 
            Battalion Slot Filled: Troops
            Battlefield Role: Other
            Reinforced: Once
            Points Cost: 570 pts
        Lord-Relictor 
            Battalion Slot Filled: Commander
            Battlefield Role: Leader
            Points Cost: 145 pts
        Knight-Incantor 
            Battalion Slot Filled: Commander
            Battlefield Role: Leader
            Points Cost: 125 pts
        Vindictors 
            Battalion Slot Filled: Troops
            Battlefield Role: Battleline
            Points Cost: 130 pts

Total Points: 1795 pts

205 points spare. Leaning vigilors to get that +1 to hit. Maybe a solo dragon.

[PJetski]

3 minutes ago, Frowny said:

Are people worries about bleeding VPs with the dragon heavy lists? They are solid but they aren't indestructible at only 9 wounds you will lose several. Some lists I'm seeing can easily.be giving up 5 VPs just from losing drake knights. That's enough to win the battle but lose the war.

 

That's one of the reasons I think the only viable way to run them is a single squad of 4 because you can efficiently stack save bonuses that way

[Yor]

2 hours ago, Elephant_fresh said:

I am curious though, how would you build an interesting list with Sacrosanct units?

Well, I'm still throwing ideas around, and that's one of the things I like about the book: there are different approaches to take beyond dragon spam.

Stormkeep abilities are quite nice, and Sequitors are well suited to take advantage of them. You park them next to some objectives and you only have to worry about shooting and MW. I think they might work as good or better than Vindictors, as the +1 save won't help you against MW and good rending shooters, while the 5+ ward might increase survivability. Plus, if someone does get closer, you have your own Stormkeep MW together with some nice greatmaces. And even if a unit is wiped out, you can bring back those 145 points with a free Holy Command.

Also, you could further discourage close combat by choosing Hallowed Knights, so killing a sequitor in melee means risking 2MW plus 2 attacks with 3/3/-1/2. Or you could take the safer route and get the Hammers 6+ ward to help against shooting and MW.

But there's no best defense than a good offense, and here you could have one or two squads of evocats sent via Relictor to wreak havoc among enemy ranged fighters. I myself would go for one feline party to be sent against lower save enemies, while a couple of drakes harass heroes and more resilient enemies.

You'll need own ranged units to cover both your offense and objectives. Ballistae are still nice, or you could go for the tried and tested longbow Raptors. To cover the middleground you can probably squeeze some Castigators, as they are ok now. 

To round up, I'll add some heroes of choice. I favour the Celestant Prime just because. It's versatile, the added 4+ ward gives him a lasting presence, and you could deploy him turn 2-3 whenever he is needed, making your Stormkeep a little Sciony. The Lord Arcanum on dracoline would be another good addition, to be sent with the cat pack for some extra paw.

I think there are still many tricks to find out and the meta will change once and again. The book is not even out yet, and it will take some time of experimenting, which is part of the fun

45 minutes ago, CommissarRotke said:

Rule of Cool it- Venator still looks amazing, Vigilors look great so if you want them and have the cash why not?

I agree, rule of cool is the only rule we really need . Though poor Venator might still sit this one out. At least until he learns to one shoot heroes again...

Edited September 15, 2021 by Yor
I keep forgetting about Holy Commands