Stormcast Eternals 3.0 - There is no "a" in Vindictors

[lare2]

Reading this thread reminds me of Pippin prior to the Siege of Gondor... the calm before the storm... I don't want there to be a nerf. But waiting on the edge of one I can't escape is even worse.

Edited December 3, 2021 by lare2

[Marcvs]

1 hour ago, Charleston said:

Edit: Also, what is the opinion on Xandires Truthseekers? I mean 3 Heroes with 5 Wounds and a 3+ save and D2 profiles look really solid, even if they are 265 pts

I like them, although they are probably not sufficiently "focused". If they were a Leader I would have considered them to fill a warlord battalion and bring a bit of everything. Mainly, I don't want to buy the whole Harrowdeep box to get them

[NauticalSoup]

Truthseekers seem reasonably capable although expensive. I would definitely consider them, although the big issue is (as with most named chars) they're Hammers of Sigmar.

I'll be pleasantly surprised if GW actually tweaks up some of these other crappy units when they nerf the good ones but I'm not sure how cheap vigilors are going to need to be to be worth taking. Probably cheap enough for them to be too good? They have the classic problem all hybrid units have where you're better off being specialized so they're typically good only if they outperform the specialists AND happen to have extra utility on top. 

[PJetski]

The Stormkeep had our first live show last night where we talked about some recent tournaments and the upcoming AOS game update! Despite some technical issues, it was a great time and I look forward to doing more in the future

[broverpowerd]

It's easy to make vigilors good.

Make them battle line.

[Kugane]

I've been out of AOS for a while and was looking to pick up those new dragons and maybe painting up some new units since I have 6 raptors from back in the day, but damn the dragons cost is annoying, lol. I feel if they were 300 or 320 points it would be far easier to fit them into a list.

Edited December 4, 2021 by Kugane

[NauticalSoup]

3 hours ago, broverpowerd said:

It's easy to make vigilors good.

Make them battle line.

Better, but good? Judicators still shoot better massed for the holy command meme, and the otherwise best troops slot unit is the liberator because it's cheap.

Battleline units are generally either tax units (like liberators) which you take because you must, and in that case cheapest is best. Or they're useful on their own in which case you would be seeing them regardless of their battleline status.

[NauticalSoup]

Just now, Kugane said:

I've been out of AOS for a while and was looking to pick up those new dragons and maybe painting up some new units since I have 6 raptors from back in the day, but damn their cost is annoying, lol. I feel if they were 300 or 320 points it would be far easier to fit them into a list.

lol they're probably about to get nerfed. They're extremely powerful with longstrikes atm thanks to doubleshoot and are in nearly every comp list, so I wouldn't bank on them getting -buffed-

[frenk_castle]

What is the concensus on unconditional Battleline units for the Stormcasts?
 

• Liberators
• Judicators
• Sequitors
• Vindictors
• Vanquishers

 

Liberators look to me like the best option since they are the cheapest. All others do not seem to bring anything that is worth the extra points with exception of Judicators. Judicators look like a great unit to have reinforced once or twice for Thunderbolt volley but they do not look like something I would use to fill all battleline slots. Sequitors look just too expensive compared to other options. Vindictors look decent but Liberators just look more effective. Vanquishers just seem lost. Like I have no idea what their role is suppose to be. With the current way missions work spamming horde units does not seem practical so their only bonus seems like it will almost never trigger.

Interested to read what others think.

Thanks in advance

[boyadventurer]

47 minutes ago, frenk_castle said:

What is the concensus on unconditional Battleline units for the Stormcasts?
 

• Liberators
• Judicators
• Sequitors
• Vindictors
• Vanquishers

 

Liberators look to me like the best option since they are the cheapest. All others do not seem to bring anything that is worth the extra points with exception of Judicators. Judicators look like a great unit to have reinforced once or twice for Thunderbolt volley but they do not look like something I would use to fill all battleline slots. Sequitors look just too expensive compared to other options. Vindictors look decent but Liberators just look more effective. Vanquishers just seem lost. Like I have no idea what their role is suppose to be. With the current way missions work spamming horde units does not seem practical so their only bonus seems like it will almost never trigger.

Interested to read what others think.

Thanks in advance

You've pretty much nailed it all on the head. Liberators have virtually the same output as Vindictors, and are generally the best choice. Vindictors are the only melee battleline worth reinforcing since they can fight in two ranks, so there's some utility there. Reinforced Judicators are basically thought of in the same conversations as 6 Longstrikes, being battleline is just gravy for them.

I believe it's ep 5 of the Stormkeep that goes in to this the best

 

[broverpowerd]

I would 100% take vigilors of they were a battle line unit, hands down in a 5 pack.

Vindictors are great in hallowed knights. Definitely outperform liberators for their 15 point price difference.

Edited December 5, 2021 by broverpowerd

[Marcvs]

In the "purely anecdotal" category, I played in a little one dayer (20 players, although I think it was 16-18 with the dropouts, 3 games) and got 3rd place (2-1) with a, let's say, "non standard" list 😅. The most important is that I got my first AoS trophy in the process lol. If you're curious, 1st and 2nd (the two 3-0 players) were Idoneth (my opponent in Game 2) and DoK Morathi & the Bowsnakes.

Anyway, this was my list:

Spoiler

Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals
- Stormhost: Celestial Warbringers (Stormkeep)
- Grand Strategy: Beast Master
- Triumphs: Inspired
Lord-Arcanum on Gryph-Charger (195)*
- Spell: Celestial Blades
Lord-Celestant on Stardrake (500)
- General
- Celestine Hammer
- Command Trait: Master of the Celestial Menagerie
- Artefact: Amulet of Destiny (Universal Artefact)
- Mount Trait: Celestial Instincts
Celestant-Prime (325)*
Lord-Celestant on Stardrake (500)*
- Celestine Hammer
- Artefact: Arcane Tome (Universal Artefact)
- Spell: Celestial Blades
5 x Liberators (115)*
- Heavens-wrought Weapon and Shield
- 1x Grandweapons
5 x Liberators (115)**
- Heavens-wrought Weapon and Shield
- 1x Grandweapons
5 x Liberators (115)**
- Heavens-wrought Weapon and Shield
- 1x Grandweapons
5 x Liberators (115)**
- Heavens-wrought Weapon and Shield
- 1x Grandweapons
*Warlord
**Hunters of the Heartlands
Artefact
Holy Command: Call for Aid

Total: 1980 / 2000
Reinforced Units: 0 / 4
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 92
Drops: 8
 

As for the actual games:

Spoiler

Game 1 in Power Struggle

Archaon in Slaanesh (+Sigvald, Chariot, a bunch of units)

We play cagey for a while and my shooting clears a lot of troops (focusing them, so no depravity) allowing the prime + shooting to kill his chariot general in the top left corner. Archaon does nothing for two turns, which was probably not the best strategy. He then brings archaon to the centre, sigvald fails to kill my general and is then killed. My other dragon targeted by Bring it down Escapes behind a screen of liberators with a cheeky redeploy and the game is eseentially over, with only archaon remaining. He tries to kill my general having summoned a keeper but roar stops the double activation and I win 26-13 (which translated in 17-3 for the tournament). Archaon is also killed in r5.

All in all, a rather textbook approach at fighting Arhcaon.

 

 

Game 2 in Power in Numbers

Idoneth (volturnos, eidolon, turtle, sharks, defensive eels)

This was a very bad matchup because the defensive eels basically neutered rain of stars. The shield of civilisation basically kept me in the game but never winning a priority and getting doubled 2into3 was too much. The game was pretty tense and a bit too slow because of this. We had to stop on t4 and it left a bit of a bad taste because I think I would have manged to keep an objective until the end for the 8 points but who knows. It is what it is, this meant a loss of 14-6. Still not too bad considering the matchup

 

Game 3  in Savage Gains

Ironjawz (MK, Rogue Idol, 2x3 pigs, brutes, supporting cast)

I put up some screens and prepared to counter pile in with the Stardrakes to lock the big dudes. Rain of stars was very hot, deleting one unit of pigs in my T1 (together with a cheeky arcane bolt which I had pre-charged to ping the very last wound on the last pig. I felt so smart when I kept the control of the objective thanks to this lol). The remaining unit didn't manage to clear the screen for the MK, while the dragon straight up eat 2 pigs out of 3 cavernous jaws. Brutal.

The opponent let his home objective too open so prime+arcanum swept in and got a big swing in points, also forcing the brutes to backtrack to recapture it. In the meantime the two dragons were holding the big boys and I was getting all my battle tactics -these have been my focus with the list, prime and arcanum was my combination for spearhead for instance.

After deleting the right objective in r3 I cleared everything apart from the MK who tried and failed to kill my dragons. Menagerie was amazing in this matchup (all melee), having a MW wounding on 4+ outside of finest hour really reduced his output. It ended with 20-0 for me, pushing me ahead of all the other 2-1 guys

 

 

Edited December 5, 2021 by Marcvs

[feadair]

A couple of well-performing (4-1) lists from the Czech Republic (20 players) and Poland (45 players)

Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals
- Stormhost: Hallowed Knights
- Grand Strategy: Prized Sorcery
- Triumphs: Indomitable

Leaders
Gardus Steel Soul (160)**
Knight-Incantor (125)**
- Spell: Thundershock
Lord-Arcanum on Tauralon (285)**
- Mount Trait: Scintillating Trail
- Spell: Chain Lightning
Lord-Relictor (145)**
- General
- Command Trait: High Priest
- Artefact: Arcane Tome (Universal Artefact)
- Spell: Celestial Blades
- Prayer: Translocation

Battleline
5 x Liberators (115)*
- Heavens-wrought Weapon and Shield
5 x Liberators (115)*
- Heavens-wrought Weapon and Shield
5 x Liberators (115)**
- Heavens-wrought Weapon and Shield

Units
4 x Dracothian Guard Fulminators (460)*
- Reinforced x 1
6 x Vanguard-Raptors with Longstrike Crossbows (480)**
- Reinforced x 1

Core Battalions
*Hunters of the Heartlands
**Warlord

Additional Enhancements
Holy Command: Call for Aid
Holy Command: Thunderbolt Volley

Total: 2000 / 2000

 

 

Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals

- Stormhost: Celestial Warbringers

- Grand Strategy: Pillars of Belief

- Triumphs: Inspired

Leaders

Knight-Incantor (125)**

- Universal Spell Lore: Ghost-mist

Lord-Relictor (145)**

- General

- Command Trait: High Priest 

- Artefact: Mirrorshield 

- Prayer: Translocation

Battleline

5 x Liberators (115)**

- Heavens-wrought Weapon and Shield

5 x Liberators (115)**

- Heavens-wrought Weapon and Shield

10 x Judicators with Skybolt Bows (400)**

- Reinforced x 1

Units

3 x Aetherwings (65)**

3 x Aetherwings (65)**

6 x Vanguard-Raptors with Longstrike Crossbows (480)*

- Reinforced x 1

3 x Vanguard-Raptors with Longstrike Crossbows (240)*

3 x Vanguard-Raptors with Longstrike Crossbows (240)*

Core Battalions

*Redemption Brotherhood

**Battle Regiment

Additional Enhancements

Holy Command: Thunderbolt Volley

Total: 1990 / 2000

[PJetski]

The first list sure looks familiar... 

[Drazhoath]

Same boring lists you can see everywere and nothing new.

[vinnyt]

Don't worry, soon you'll be able to see this list everywhere*

 

*barring FAQ changes

 

Incantor

Relictor with translocate 

dragon character with stuff that makes him better 

 

2x2 Dragons

1x5 judicators

 

6 raptors with crossbows

2 aetherwing units

 

Thunderbolt volley, obviously

 

This is gonna be a huge problem for opponents to deal with since you're a 1 drop that can turn one rip about 30 wounds through a 2+ save anywhere on the table while plopping 4 dragons on any objective you want. The hero phase move, regular move, shoot, and charge is basically unmatched force projection and they're also battleline. 

The mirror match is kinda tough but you can also pop stuff up in the sky if you're worried about the counter-alpha alpha strike from lumineth. They may kill a dragon unit on turn one but you auto unbind protection and then delete the sentinels with raptors and it's gg. 

Mega gargs melt to this too. Double shooting raptors and dragon shooting is wild. And then you charge and finish em off with the dragons. 

Thunder lizard is probably the toughest matchup but you've got mortal wounds everywhere so it's still not really a problem. 

Nagash dies turn 1 unless he brings immortis guard. He can hurt you a little bit back with his ward save but if he dies turn one you win the game so it's ok. 

DoK is also a cinch since you just delete the bow snakes turn 1 and it's now morathi vs your entire army. 

IJ could be tough except you're a one drop and can easily murder a mawkrusha and some pigs on turn one while stand and shooting MW everywhere onto the pigs. Plus you still have raptors. Oh and dragon shooting deletes any small characters. Plus the dragon character can jump around and go wherever you need buffs. 

In short, barring huge FAQ changes, I really don't see a lot of issues for this list. I'd love to see some battle reports with it though. The hero phase movement is just such an incredible buff for the battleline flying beatsticks with mortal wound shooting and a 3+ save. And 9 wounds apiece wounds. And they're monsters. And they don't bracket. And they ignore spells on a 4+.  

Edited December 6, 2021 by vinnyt
made the list legal

[macrake]

6 minutes ago, vinnyt said:

Don't worry, soon you'll be able to see this list everywhere*

 

*barring FAQ changes

 

Incantor

Relictor with translocate 2+ rerollable

dragon character with stuff that makes him better 

 

2x2 Dragons

1x5 judicators

 

6 raptors with crossbows

2 aetherwing units

 

Thunderbolt volley, obviously

 

This is gonna be a huge problem for opponents to deal with since you're a 1 drop that can turn one rip about 30 wounds through a 2+ save anywhere on the table while plopping 4 dragons on any objective you want. The hero phase move, regular move, shoot, and charge is basically unmatched force projection and they're also battleline. 

The mirror match is kinda tough but you can also pop stuff up in the sky if you're worried about the counter-alpha alpha strike from lumineth. They may kill a dragon unit on turn one but you auto unbind protection and then delete the sentinels with raptors and it's gg. 

Mega gargs melt to this too. Double shooting raptors and dragon shooting is wild. And then you charge and finish em off with the dragons. 

Thunder lizard is probably the toughest matchup but you've got mortal wounds everywhere so it's still not really a problem. 

Nagash dies turn 1 unless he brings immortis guard. He can hurt you a little bit back with his ward save but if he dies turn one you win the game so it's ok. 

DoK is also a cinch since you just delete the bow snakes turn 1 and it's now morathi vs your entire army. 

IJ could be tough except you're a one drop and can easily murder a mawkrusha and some pigs on turn one while stand and shooting MW everywhere onto the pigs. Plus you still have raptors. Oh and dragon shooting deletes any small characters. Plus the dragon character can jump around and go wherever you need buffs. 

In short, barring huge FAQ changes, I really don't see a lot of issues for this list. I'd love to see some battle reports with it though. The hero phase movement is just such an incredible buff for the battleline flying beatsticks with mortal wound shooting and a 3+ save. And 9 wounds apiece wounds. And they're monsters. And they don't bracket. And they ignore spells on a 4+.  

Nice anti SC hyperbole. Play some actual games against competent opponents. Terrible list btw.

[feadair]

1 hour ago, Drazhoath said:

Same boring lists you can see everywere and nothing new.

The second one sure looks different to me…

[Dogmantra]

3 hours ago, macrake said:

Nice anti SC hyperbole. Play some actual games against competent opponents. Terrible list btw.

It's also illegal. Can't have Stormdrake Guard battleline without a Stardrake or Draconith as a general, but the Relictor is clearly the general because they're rerolling prayers.

[PrimeElectrid]

Winter rumours:

longstrikes +20 points

fulminators +30 points

no points reductions 

sce can’t have nice things, news at 10

Edited December 5, 2021 by PrimeElectrid

[lare2]

17 minutes ago, PrimeElectrid said:

longstrikes +20 points

If that's all they do to them, I could live with that. 

[Celestantpants]

1 hour ago, PrimeElectrid said:

Winter rumours:

longstrikes +20 points

fulminators +30 points

no points reductions 

sce can’t have nice things, news at 10

Did anything happen to the worst offenders in other armies did you hear?

[Celestantpants]

Also, looking more and more likely that dragons will get a war scroll rewrite, since all the other rumors seem to be happening.  Who knows?  Maybe it won't.  Hmm.  So if that happens our good units will be grandhammer annihilators and.......?  Possibly judicators?  How long till the Grandhammers get hit?  Possibly an emergency nerf a month or 2 after?  They do a ton of damage after all, and are likely going to be in a ton of lists.  Given the way things have gone I can't imagine GW will let a SCE unit like that stand out for too long without getting a nerf.

[boyadventurer]

29 minutes ago, Celestantpants said:

Also, looking more and more likely that dragons will get a war scroll rewrite, since all the other rumors seem to be happening.  Who knows?  Maybe it won't.  Hmm.  So if that happens our good units will be grandhammer annihilators and.......?  Possibly judicators?  How long till the Grandhammers get hit?  Possibly an emergency nerf a month or 2 after?  They do a ton of damage after all, and are likely going to be in a ton of lists.  Given the way things have gone I can't imagine GW will let a SCE unit like that stand out for too long without getting a nerf.

I mean, they're already hard countered by an entire battleplan and needing an expensive hero as tax buuuuuuut, yeah I can see the rules team not taking that into consideration at all.

[Jaskier]

Curious to hear your opinions; if Fulminators do go up by 30 points, and we assume the other Dracoth variants don't change, would Fulminators still be the most popular Dracothian Guard variant or would another variant take their place? 260 for Fulminators VS 220 for say Concussors would certainly be less of an obvious choice. 

Edited December 6, 2021 by Jaskier