Stormcast Eternals 3.0 - There is no "a" in Vindictors

[PJetski]

6 Longstrikes using Unleash Hell is pretty good

[PrimeElectrid]

57 minutes ago, PJetski said:

A 4x Ballista drop is going to be pretty good if the meta continues to focus on big MONSTER units, especially if the Azyros keeps his re-roll hit1 ability.

Ehhh… that’s 400 points that could be annihilators. Even at rend 3 I don’t think they have the damage/points ratio to do anything but tickle 3+ save monsters. 

 

53 minutes ago, Sleepa said:

Oh damn , did you guys see this? Think this means the Stardrake may also lose the 3+? Looks like Cabbages got -1 save in exchange for 3 more wounds.

*Edit AND massively increased offensive output.

We’ve seen the scrolls, 3+ Lord and 4+ drakesworn.

 

42 minutes ago, PJetski said:

If Sequitors are a 4+ save and cost 15 more points than Vindictors (assuming they keep their 3+ save) then Sequitors will need to have some kind of crazy ability to make up the difference. 

Sequitors 🗑 worst save, most expensive, 1” range and no mortals. There’ll always be a role for 5++ x3 scoring but it’s pretty niche.

[PrimeElectrid]

57 minutes ago, PJetski said:

A 4x Ballista drop is going to be pretty good if the meta continues to focus on big MONSTER units, especially if the Azyros keeps his re-roll hit1 ability.

Ehhh… that’s 400 points that could be annihilators. Even at rend 3 I don’t think they have the damage/points ratio to do anything but tickle 3+ save monsters. 

 

53 minutes ago, Sleepa said:

Oh damn , did you guys see this? Think this means the Stardrake may also lose the 3+? Looks like Cabbages got -1 save in exchange for 3 more wounds.

*Edit AND massively increased offensive output.

We’ve seen the scrolls, 3+ Lord and 4+ drakesworn.

 

42 minutes ago, PJetski said:

If Sequitors are a 4+ save and cost 15 more points than Vindictors (assuming they keep their 3+ save) then Sequitors will need to have some kind of crazy ability to make up the difference. 

Sequitors 🗑 worst save, most expensive, 1” range and no mortals. There’ll always be a role for 5++ x3 scoring but it’s pretty niche.

[PrimeElectrid]

57 minutes ago, PJetski said:

A 4x Ballista drop is going to be pretty good if the meta continues to focus on big MONSTER units, especially if the Azyros keeps his re-roll hit1 ability.

Ehhh… that’s 400 points that could be annihilators. Even at rend 3 I don’t think they have the damage/points ratio to do anything but tickle 3+ save monsters. 

 

53 minutes ago, Sleepa said:

Oh damn , did you guys see this? Think this means the Stardrake may also lose the 3+? Looks like Cabbages got -1 save in exchange for 3 more wounds.

*Edit AND massively increased offensive output.

We’ve seen the scrolls, 3+ Lord and 4+ drakesworn.

 

42 minutes ago, PJetski said:

If Sequitors are a 4+ save and cost 15 more points than Vindictors (assuming they keep their 3+ save) then Sequitors will need to have some kind of crazy ability to make up the difference. 

Sequitors 🗑 worst save, most expensive, 1” range and no mortals. There’ll always be a role for 5++ x3 scoring but it’s pretty niche.

[PrimeElectrid]

57 minutes ago, PJetski said:

A 4x Ballista drop is going to be pretty good if the meta continues to focus on big MONSTER units, especially if the Azyros keeps his re-roll hit1 ability.

Ehhh… that’s 400 points that could be annihilators. Even at rend 3 I don’t think they have the damage/points ratio to do anything but tickle 3+ save monsters. 

 

53 minutes ago, Sleepa said:

Oh damn , did you guys see this? Think this means the Stardrake may also lose the 3+? Looks like Cabbages got -1 save in exchange for 3 more wounds.

*Edit AND massively increased offensive output.

We’ve seen the scrolls, 3+ Lord and 4+ drakesworn.

 

42 minutes ago, PJetski said:

If Sequitors are a 4+ save and cost 15 more points than Vindictors (assuming they keep their 3+ save) then Sequitors will need to have some kind of crazy ability to make up the difference. 

Sequitors 🗑 worst save, most expensive, 1” range and no mortals. There’ll always be a role for 5++ x3 scoring but it’s pretty niche.

[PJetski]

2 minutes ago, PrimeElectrid said:

Ehhh… that’s 400 points that could be annihilators. Even at rend 3 I don’t think they have the damage/points ratio to do anything but tickle 3+ save monsters. 

Annihilators drop in, hit something, and then stand around in that general area for the rest of the game. Ballistas do the same thing but with 30" reach.

Also you can (and probably should) use both

[PrimeElectrid]

Mods give us a delete function ffs

[PrimeElectrid]

2 minutes ago, PJetski said:

Annihilators drop in, hit something, and then stand around in that general area for the rest of the game. Ballistas do the same thing but with 30" reach.

Also you can (and probably should) use both

Doesn’t matter if that thing is a key threat.

[readercolin]

12 hours ago, Sleepa said:

Exactly. Especially since they aren't mobile and can't ignore LOS. And since they've always been single units, you can't even get value from translocate or the Anvils command ability. 

Without some really impressive warscroll special ability, I can't foresee ballistas being remotely viable in any competitive sense.

2d6 shots is just too damn random to count on without some like of Blast rule like 40k has.

What do you think it would take to make them good enough? Considering their rend, it honestly feels like there's no way we get a MW proc (Outside of curse), and 2D6 shots makes me suspect we won't get some kind of double-tap ability either.

Honestly, the only thing that I can think of that would make ballista's worth it is if they were able to put out ~5 damage when all buffed up.  Considering that you can't all out attack more than one at a time, and you can't unleash hell on more than one at a time, having an artillery piece that can put out 5 rend -2 damage at short range (and maybe 3 at long range) might make them playable.  Note here the key point - when all buffed up.  That means giving them a +1 to hit, which basically is mandating a Lord-Ordinator accompanying them.  At 140 points per ballista, and another ~150 for the Lord-Ordinator, that is 710 points that you are dumping into your artillery core - over 1/3 of a 2k list.

For warscroll abilities, I could see them being worth it if there was some sort of condition for getting +1 damage on their attacks.  Ex. +1 damage vs Monsters.  If there were sub-faction abilities that gave bonus damage, or bonus attacks, or something like that, I could also see it being worth it situationally.

To note just how ridiculous this damage is, lets compare it to a unit that does see actual play - Lumineth Sentinals.  A single one of these new ballista's is going to put out 3 damage at short range, and 2.5 damage at long range.  A squad of 10 sentinals with lofted shots that didn't get their spell off is going to put out ~3.3 damage.  Got their spell off (mortals on a 5+), and we can bump that up to ~4 damage.  Spell off AND within 18" (same close range as the ballista) - this jumps up to 5 damage.

Sentinals are considered "scalpel" units.  They aren't on the field to do a ton of damage - they are on the field to pick off enemy hero's, support pieces, and maybe weaken a heavy hitter before it hits your line.  This seems to be a VERY similar niche to what Ballista's should be doing as well, and both units cost about the same number of points.  But Sentinals have more bodies for objectives, more mobility, almost the same range, and nearly double the damage at those same ranges.  More importantly, you can take a block of 20-30 sentinals, and buff that entire unit with all out attack, or use unleash hell with it.

As a stormcast army, I would almost rather bring a block of 20 sentinals as an allied unit than bring any ballista's.  They can sit on objectives better, have a similar reach on the board, and do better damage application.  A squad of 20 can match 4 ballista's without an ordinator at both 18" and at 30", but do so with having half the points spent.

[Sagittarii Orientalis]

While it is too early to assess the performance of the ballista without the full picture, I think the true value of the unit lies in its rend -3 single shot. With its To Wound Roll improved to 2+, slightest buff to its hit rolls allow the ballista to comfortably punch through high save monsters which are so prevalent nowadays. Since it does not inflict mortal wounds as far as I know, it may pose decent threat to Archaon and Nagash, both of which are resistant to mortal wounds.

However, even with such optimism I must confess that price bump of 20 points from current point cost of 120 is hard to swallow unless there are additional rules on the ballista's warscroll.

 

Edited September 3, 2021 by Sagittarii Orientalis

[Nizrah]

I bet that Lord Ordinator CA will be changed so maybe there will be additional punch

[PJetski]

2 hours ago, Nizrah said:

I bet that Lord Ordinator CA will be changed so maybe there will be additional punch

It would be great if he got his double tap command ability back. I still don't understand why they replaced it with a battleshock immunity aura.

[Nizrah]

52 minutes ago, PJetski said:

It would be great if he got his double tap command ability back. I still don't understand why they replaced it with a battleshock immunity aura.

Because battleshock immunity aura is so cool and we needed the second one! XD 

[CommissarRotke]

On 9/2/2021 at 12:34 PM, jhamslam said:

If they make castigators good with Soul Bomb RPGs and d3 mortal wounds, god watch out ebay for that mad dash

as someone who bought Soul Wars and the Black Watch box, I do dearly hope their greatbows do d3 to more than NH...

[Fuxxx]

18 hours ago, CommissarRotke said:

as someone who bought Soul Wars and the Black Watch box, I do dearly hope their greatbows do d3 to more than NH...

Haha I've got 15 of the buggers and only ever painted 3 which never saw play. Really hope they get any value soon.

[PJetski]

Theyre even bad in Underworlds

[CommissarRotke]

seriously? that warband/etb pack comes in the Black Watch box and I figured I could use them in UW :"(

[Fuxxx]

5 hours ago, CommissarRotke said:

seriously? that warband/etb pack comes in the Black Watch box and I figured I could use them in UW :"(

They're absolutely fine but you'll need the cards 😉

They are not a tier by any means but if you're not playing in a competitive setting I rather like them, sleek and the damage 2 shooting makes them stand out a bit from the 3 fighter melee warbands they usually have and the farstriders are pretty much worse

But yeah I started with 3 soul wars halves and the black watch... You see I already sold some but I wanted to keep a healthy amount for the possibility of them becoming good

 

Edited September 5, 2021 by Fuxxx

[Charleston]

Do we know anything about SCE rules beside some of the new stuff? I am considering building a small force based on dominion + vanguard SC! (I love palladors) and go the Dragon Route once the new kits hit store in 2025

[Lucur]

1 hour ago, Charleston said:

Do we know anything about SCE rules beside some of the new stuff? I am considering building a small force based on dominion + vanguard SC! (I love palladors) and go the Dragon Route once the new kits hit store in 2025

Afaik there's only some statlines floating around and the whc preview with limited stormhost and battleline information. It's all in this thread, too, if you go back a page or two.

[jeanfluflu]

The rend 3 on the balista makes me think the hammer from the prime might get a rework.

I was thinking something like this:

Always 5att but you start with rend 2and dmg 2.

Each turn you stay in the sky you gain 1rend and 1dmg.

It actually makes the weapon itself getting better and gives a slight edge to the mighty hammer of sigmar compared to the old version.

Think it might change? 

I'm a bit sad to see classic artilery hitting harder than the symbolic weapon on the cover of our rulebook

[lare2]

Finally! Time to get excited!

[PrimeElectrid]

Barristan: 

4 attacks 3/2/-2/4
4+ ward
If he kills any models he heals back up to full health 
Before the game redeploys d3 units
One command per turn for free 

In your hero phase pick a unit on the board and roll dice = wounds, 6s are mortals

Edited September 5, 2021 by PrimeElectrid

[mystycalchemy]

19 minutes ago, PrimeElectrid said:

Barristan: 

4 attacks 3/2/-2/4
4+ ward
If he kills any models he heals back up to full health 
Before the game redeploys d3 units
One command per turn for free 

In your hero phase pick a unit on the board and roll dice = wounds, 6s are mortals

Not awful, but i was kinda hoping for more from the LORD COMMANDER of Hammers of Sigmar.

[CommissarRotke]

finally...fething FINALLY https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/09/05/sunday-preview-two-new-battletomes-and-a-whole-new-show-on-warhammer/