Stormcast Eternals 3.0 - There is no "a" in Vindictors

[RedemptionUK]

5 minutes ago, Brother Mayhem said:

I went to Mancunian Carnage too! But went 0-5...! I hadn't played with the new book yet (and much of AOS 3), and made some errors, but had fun and was nominated for best painted. A lot was learnt and I need to bring stuff that kills things...

Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals (Stormkeep)

- Stormhost: Hammers of Sigmar (Stormkeep) - Grand Strategy: Hold the Line
- Triumphs:

LEADERS

Yndrasta, The Celestial Spear (320)* Lord-Arcanum (155)*

- Spell: Azyrite Halo

Lord-Relictor (145)*

- General
- Command Trait: High Priest - Artefact: Amulet of Destiny - Prayer: Translocation

Knight-Judicator with Gryph-Hounds (205)*

UNITS

10 x Vindictors (260)**

10 x Liberators (230)**

- Heavens-wrought Weapon and Shield - 2 x Grandhammers

5 x Sequitors (145)**

- Stormsmite Mauls and Soulshields - 3 x Stormsmite Greatmaces

5 x Liberators (115)*

- Heavens-wrought Weapon and Shield - 1 x Grandblades

5 x Judicators with Skybolt Bows (200)* 5 x Judicators with Skybolt Bows (200) CORE BATTALIONS
*Warlord

**Hunters of the Heartlands

ADDITIONAL ENHANCEMENTS

Holy Command: Thunderbolt Volley Holy Command: Call for Aid 

 

Your army looked so damn nice! If you're at the next solo player carnage I'll have to say hi in person!

[Scurvydog]

The 5 judicator player must be a great player, as I am absolutely sure many players would fail miserably with that list. I am especially puzzled how a thunderlizard lists managed to crumble to that, besides them not knowing anything about the new stormcast and had bunched up all the monsters, so the judicator bombardments hit everything at once x 5. 

Otherwise a knight judicator with -1 dmg has an average of about 2 dmg... that is 1000 pts doing 10 dmg per turn with the bows, and then some redeemer units and gryph hounds messing around. I would love to see exactly how that went down.

[feadair]

39 minutes ago, Scurvydog said:

The 5 judicator player must be a great player, as I am absolutely sure many players would fail miserably with that list. I am especially puzzled how a thunderlizard lists managed to crumble to that, besides them not knowing anything about the new stormcast and had bunched up all the monsters, so the judicator bombardments hit everything at once x 5. 

Otherwise a knight judicator with -1 dmg has an average of about 2 dmg... that is 1000 pts doing 10 dmg per turn with the bows, and then some redeemer units and gryph hounds messing around. I would love to see exactly how that went down.

I think he was the Captain of Team England before Covid.

There is still the Celestant-Prime and the Hurakan to contend with, as well. 

[Dogmantra]

5 hours ago, frostfire said:

If I read correctly, you can "retreat" out of combat with the ability that allows you to make a normal move in the hero phase. Is that correct?

It's a little unclear but I believe you can't.

8.0 Movement Phase says

Quote

In your movement phase, you can pick 1 friendly unit that is more than 3" from all enemy units and declare that it will make a normal move

And then in 8.1 Normal Move which says in full:

Quote

When you pick a unit to make a normal move, you can move each model in that unit a distance in inches equal to or less than the Move characteristic shown on the unit's warscroll. Units cannot move within 3" of enemy units when making a normal move.

The reasoning I suspect is based on the wording of 8.0 - because it only restricts you to picking a unit outside of 3" from an enemy to make a normal move in the movement phase, the logic goes that if allowed to make a normal move by means other than just the fact you're in the movement phase, then you don't have to follow that restriction and can pick a unit within 3" of an enemy. That part is perfectly compelling.

Where I think it falls down is the final sentence of 8.1 Normal Move, which states "Units cannot move within 3" of enemy units when making a normal move." This boils down to not being allowed to make a normal move at all if any point of the unit's path comes within 3" of an enemy unit. And because you start within 3" of an enemy, even though there is no restriction on picking that unit to move (because it is not the movement phase), there is an inability to actually resolve the move at all because there is no way in which you can move a unit that starts within 3" of an enemy such that it never passes within 3" of an enemy.

That is of course just my reading of the situation.

[Chronos]

Seeing the lists that are doing well with Stormcast, I have really no idea where to start as a new player to the army.

I would have thought in Stormkeep it would be beneficial to have big blocks of Redeemers to just hold objectives, but it seems like 5 man units are the go to? I also seem to want to add in so many heroes, many seem so good, I guess that's a good thing.

What I'm trying to build towards is something like:

Hallowed Knights in Stormkeep(can always change) w/Call for Aid

Yndrasta

Lord Relictor with the usual kit

Lord Castellant w/Arcane Tome

Gardus

Celestant-Prime

That's 1105 points on heroes, might be too much!

Then something like:

3x5 Vindictors

5 Retributors

3 Raptors w/Longstrikes

Puts me at 1970 and gives me a bit of everything. Two deepstriking/teleporting hammers in the CP and Rets, Yndrasta to keep my battleline and Raptors hopefully healthy, Raps for a bit of shooting, Gardus for a 5+ bubble, and the Castellant to just put out some buffs and with 8 wounds hopefully isn't picked off too fast, although I feel like there are many juicy targets to choose from for the enemy and if I lose one or two then the others are left untouched.

My dilemma is do I drop the Prime, Rets, or Raptors and add more battleline, but I just figure the lists I'm seeing all have some heavy hammers and the Prime simply cannot be ignored with the guaranteed charge.

Thoughts would be appreciated, thanks!

[PrimeElectrid]

1 hour ago, Chronos said:

Seeing the lists that are doing well with Stormcast, I have really no idea where to start as a new player to the army.

I would have thought in Stormkeep it would be beneficial to have big blocks of Redeemers to just hold objectives, but it seems like 5 man units are the go to? I also seem to want to add in so many heroes, many seem so good, I guess that's a good thing.

What I'm trying to build towards is something like:

Hallowed Knights in Stormkeep(can always change) w/Call for Aid

Yndrasta

Lord Relictor with the usual kit

Lord Castellant w/Arcane Tome

Gardus

Celestant-Prime

That's 1105 points on heroes, might be too much!

Then something like:

3x5 Vindictors

5 Retributors

3 Raptors w/Longstrikes

Puts me at 1970 and gives me a bit of everything. Two deepstriking/teleporting hammers in the CP and Rets, Yndrasta to keep my battleline and Raptors hopefully healthy, Raps for a bit of shooting, Gardus for a 5+ bubble, and the Castellant to just put out some buffs and with 8 wounds hopefully isn't picked off too fast, although I feel like there are many juicy targets to choose from for the enemy and if I lose one or two then the others are left untouched.

My dilemma is do I drop the Prime, Rets, or Raptors and add more battleline, but I just figure the lists I'm seeing all have some heavy hammers and the Prime simply cannot be ignored with the guaranteed charge.

Thoughts would be appreciated, thanks!

I’d suggest that the problem with big blocks of redeemers is that it’s just a lesser version of gargants. Not only do redeemer units actually degrade, but they don’t score bonus VPs for being a monster, and they don’t kill very well.

The rage at the moment seems to be highly aggressive lists with min battleline for holding objectives, where you invest all your points in the Killy stuff. In that paradigm Stormkeeps are kind of wasted on the 5 man units; whereas Scions can be used to help keep your good stuff off the board. This means that it can’t be killed by another alpha and can also be dropped in where it’s needed as a pseudo counter-deploy. Especially advantageous for Vanguard Raptors so you can get them into range of something that might otherwise hide >36” away.

From what I can tell, that also means you aren’t invested in needing to go first, so aren’t at as much risk of a double or exposed to an enemy castle, etc.

[feadair]

1 hour ago, Chronos said:

Seeing the lists that are doing well with Stormcast, I have really no idea where to start as a new player to the army.

I would have thought in Stormkeep it would be beneficial to have big blocks of Redeemers to just hold objectives, but it seems like 5 man units are the go to? I also seem to want to add in so many heroes, many seem so good, I guess that's a good thing.

What I'm trying to build towards is something like:

Hallowed Knights in Stormkeep(can always change) w/Call for Aid

Yndrasta

Lord Relictor with the usual kit

Lord Castellant w/Arcane Tome

Gardus

Celestant-Prime

That's 1105 points on heroes, might be too much!

Then something like:

3x5 Vindictors

5 Retributors

3 Raptors w/Longstrikes

Puts me at 1970 and gives me a bit of everything. Two deepstriking/teleporting hammers in the CP and Rets, Yndrasta to keep my battleline and Raptors hopefully healthy, Raps for a bit of shooting, Gardus for a 5+ bubble, and the Castellant to just put out some buffs and with 8 wounds hopefully isn't picked off too fast, although I feel like there are many juicy targets to choose from for the enemy and if I lose one or two then the others are left untouched.

My dilemma is do I drop the Prime, Rets, or Raptors and add more battleline, but I just figure the lists I'm seeing all have some heavy hammers and the Prime simply cannot be ignored with the guaranteed charge.

Thoughts would be appreciated, thanks!

Vanguard-Raptors should be 6. You want to shoot twice with them using Thunderbolt Volley and buff them in the shooting phase with All-out Attack. These tactics are inefficient and ineffective with a unit of 3. 

I am not sure of Retributors. They are slow. You can Translocate them, but there is speculation that it may be nerfed in the upcoming FAQ, which hopefully will be out this week. You may want a faster melee hammer, such as 4 Concussors or Fulminators.

I do not think you necessarily need more battleline.

To save points, I would probably look at cutting heroes (but I would definitely keep Relictor and Gardus).

 

[Chronos]

25 minutes ago, PrimeElectrid said:

I’d suggest that the problem with big blocks of redeemers is that it’s just a lesser version of gargants. Not only do redeemer units actually degrade, but they don’t score bonus VPs for being a monster, and they don’t kill very well.

The rage at the moment seems to be highly aggressive lists with min battleline for holding objectives, where you invest all your points in the Killy stuff. In that paradigm Stormkeeps are kind of wasted on the 5 man units; whereas Scions can be used to help keep your good stuff off the board. This means that it can’t be killed by another alpha and can also be dropped in where it’s needed as a pseudo counter-deploy. Especially advantageous for Vanguard Raptors so you can get them into range of something that might otherwise hide >36” away.

From what I can tell, that also means you aren’t invested in needing to go first, so aren’t at as much risk of a double or exposed to an enemy castle, etc.

This makes a lot of sense, definitely worth thinking about for list building, thanks.

 

11 minutes ago, feadair said:

Vanguard-Raptors should be 6. You want to shoot twice with them using Thunderbolt Volley and buff them in the shooting phase with All-out Attack. These tactics are inefficient and ineffective with a unit of 3. 

I am not sure of Retributors. They are slow. You can Translocate them, but there is speculation that it may be nerfed in the upcoming FAQ, which hopefully will be out this week. You may want a faster melee hammer, such as 4 Concussors or Fulminators.

I do not think you necessarily need more battleline.

To save points, I would probably look at cutting heroes (but I would definitely keep Relictor and Gardus).

 

The thing with the Raptors is I'm not trying to make a dedicated shooting army, so I'm not sure if spending almost 500 points and my holy command is too many points. I know Translocate could probably get nerfed, but it's still probably a pretty worthwhile maneuver in conjunction with the Prime, but I actually don't have any experience with it so who knows.

The Fulminators really looks great and will be picking some up, but I should have mentioned I have most of this list already and can soon get some games in with it and then tweak as I go. So right now I'll just try the Rets and see how they do.

Still not sure what to do with the shooting, 6 Raptors is a lot of damage, especially shooting twice like you say. It's only 6 models to do up so maybe I'll try a variation with them vs not.

Thanks!

[Dream]

2 hours ago, feadair said:

I think he was the Captain of Team England before Covid.

There is still the Celestant-Prime and the Hurakan to contend with, as well. 

I think people are under rating the knight judicators a little. The knight himself is around 168pts if you dont count for the doggos. (3x205=615 -110(cost of 6 dogs)=505/3 =168ish) The dogs are good little screening units especially when you have a bunch of them cause you can have them retreat out after activating and still have your screening unit alive. 5 units of them would be very annoying to deal with. Like driving through a parking lot with way too many speed bumps 🤣

I also bet he nuked a few castles with their ability. You can find a lot of enemy units with their toes in a 6" bubble.

[PrimeElectrid]

6 Longstrikes doesn’t make a shooting list imo. You can definitely lean heavy into shooting with then, but they slot nicely into any kind of list as a support piece.

[RedemptionUK]

You don't need to worry about min maxing in order to win/have fun. I think playing weaker lists makes you a better player in the long run! 

Depends on what you want to get out of the hobby after all!

[feadair]

1 hour ago, Dream said:

I think people are under rating the knight judicators a little. The knight himself is around 168pts if you dont count for the doggos. (3x205=615 -110(cost of 6 dogs)=505/3 =168ish) The dogs are good little screening units especially when you have a bunch of them cause you can have them retreat out after activating and still have your screening unit alive. 5 units of them would be very annoying to deal with. Like driving through a parking lot with way too many speed bumps 🤣

I also bet he nuked a few castles with their ability. You can find a lot of enemy units with their toes in a 6" bubble.

I certainly did not think much of them before this weekend. I was very wrong. In the right list, they clearly are incredibly powerful. The only issue is that a list built around them may not be very good for friendly games - I doubt that the opponents had much fun. Great for a tournament, though.

[CommissarRotke]

Found this on the subreddit today, a big congrats if the Stormcast players are here! BOTH of the new books are doing quite well it seems

 https://www.reddit.com/r/ageofsigmar/comments/q6334m/aos_tournament_roundup_october_11/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3

 

[RedemptionUK]

I love that this weekend has shown that we actually are a toolbox army now. Where you can find successful lists to either win tournaments or have fun on the mid tables that have their own style and unit composition.

 

Before all we had was a box of rusty and blunt tools with only a couple of sharp ones hidden around.

[Colgado]

Just finished this up, do you think it will pass as a Lord Relictor?

[readercolin]

1 hour ago, Colgado said:

Just finished this up, do you think it will pass as a Lord Relictor?

I'm not sure it does a great job.  The biggest standout piece of the Lord-Relictor is the fact that he is carrying a big banner in one of his hands.  Your kitbash gives him a hammer, and the "skull mask" that the relictor has, but having the severed head rather than a banner means that it doesn't stand out in the same manner as the normal model.

I would say that the best way to "fix" the model to look closer to the relictor is to find a banner from something and attach it to his back.  Bonus points if the banner looks vaguely stormcasty, and has lightning and stuff around it.  Ex. Get a banner from a Knight-Vexilor and stick it on top of a flag going up his back.

[frostfire]

Do we know if recent tournaments allow you to move after Translocated?

[RedemptionUK]

2 minutes ago, frostfire said:

Do we know if recent tournaments allow you to move after Translocated?

Not at carnage unless 3.0 book faq that didn't happen yet confirms it

[Nizrah]

28 minutes ago, frostfire said:

Do we know if recent tournaments allow you to move after Translocated?

Not at General War (100+ tournament in Poland) 

[macrake]

What about the SDG hero phase move? Do we think that will still be useable in combination with an FAQ'd translocation? Any similar comparisons to make?

Mirror dance and lumineth teleport both have the wording ".. cannot make a move in the next movement phase."

So SDG hero phase move will probably survive.

Edited October 12, 2021 by macrake

[Sagittarii Orientalis]

Funny to see TOs already assuming RAW translocation is unbalanced enough to warrant outright ban. 

Lumineth foxes were already moving 24" or 36" every turn. Ironjaws could move several units twice a turn. They can also combine Hand of Gork and Mighty Destroyers to essentially do what translocation does now. 

Such mobility tricks enjoyed by other factions are totally acceptable, but apparently not for the stormcast. I would not hesitate calling it ungrounded anti-stormcast bias.

Why preemtively ban something when they do not even know how actual games will turn out? Players could learn to adapt to it by more clever use of screening and timely Redeploy.

If the stormcasts with translocation as it is now do manage to absolutely dominate the podium for a considerable time, then I could understand TOs prohibiting its use.

As of now however, I think ban on translocation is premature and unwarranted. Stormcast already lost most of their mobility buffs for heavy hitters in the new battletome.

Stormcasts can no longer reliably run and charge every turn. And the holy order cannot be combined with automatic 6" run move command. Nor can stormcasts retreat and charge except for a single mount in the army. In fact, I am actually fine with translocation going away if stormcasts could earn their old knight heraldor back.🤨

Edited October 12, 2021 by Sagittarii Orientalis

[Freejack02]

8 minutes ago, Sagittarii Orientalis said:

Funny to see TOs already assuming RAW translocation is unbalanced enough to warrant outright ban. 

Lumineth foxes were already moving 24" or 36" every turn. Ironjaws could move several units twice a turn. They can also combine Hand of Gork and Mighty Destroyers to essentially do what translocation does now. 

Such mobility tricks enjoyed by other factions are totally acceptable, but apparently not for the stormcast. I would not hesitate calling it ungrounded anti-stormcast bias. Why preemtively ban something when they do not even know how actual games will turn out?

It's being banned (I assume) because the actual rules text for Translocation hasn't changed, but the effect is now very different (improved). A lot of people believe the current interpretation to be a big oversight when the Movement rules changed and expect it to be FAQ'd to what it was. 

I personally don't think it needs to be, but I can 100% see why some TOs are making their own change until they're sure it's intended. 

[Neverchosen]

My friend is going to give me a number of Stormcast models that will bring me over my initial plan for 2000 points and I am now considering ways to make my army stand out. I have been considering a chess theme and paint a portion of my army with white armour (or pauldrons) and a portion with black armour (or pauldrons). I will then actually use them for chess games... I will use paladins for rooks, cavalry for knights, raptors/praetors for bishops,  battleline for pawns, heroes for Kings and Queens. 

Now I am wondering about how to divide my army thematically? Should I split them between chambers, traditional/thunderstrike, separate stormkeep/scion lists, aim for approximate unit parity?  I see positives and negatives to each form of splitting the army to create the two sides of the army. But I still think it will be a fun project...

I am not sure if I will keep everything and I might just grab enough units to get to 2000 points. 

Units:
x2 units of Liberators
x2 units Vindictors*
x2 units of Sequitors**
1 unit of Decimators
1 unit of Annihilators*
1 Unit of Praetors*
1 unit of Castigators
1 unit of Raptors (need to get second hand birds 😨) 
1 Celestar Ballista

Heroes:
Lord-Imperatant*
Lord Arcanum on Gryph
Knight Arcanum (Will run as an Incantor)*
Knight Incantor*
Vexillor with Banner*
Knight-Questor 

Named:
Vandus,
Gaveriel
Yndrasta*

Here is my chess themed mock up:

*Currently own.
**have one unit so far.

Edited October 13, 2021 by Neverchosen

[Beliman]

7 hours ago, Sagittarii Orientalis said:

Funny to see TOs already assuming RAW translocation is unbalanced enough to warrant outright ban. 

Lumineth foxes were already moving 24" or 36" every turn. Ironjaws could move several units twice a turn. They can also combine Hand of Gork and Mighty Destroyers to essentially do what translocation does now. 

Such mobility tricks enjoyed by other factions are totally acceptable, but apparently not for the stormcast. I would not hesitate calling it ungrounded anti-stormcast bias.

Imho, it's because SCE seems to have other "Tricks" now: 3+ saves or a lot of easy +1 to saves, Scions/Stormkeep, Blaze of Glory or the Holy Orders. Even some SCE players seems to not understand why GW give SCE a  new "tool" as powerful as a prayer with such an easy activation.

Ironjawz, as you said, it is/was all about Mighty Destroyers (that is/was their "Trick" together with their Waaagh) and you need an activator/CP for Mighty Destroyers (even if that is their BIG PLAY). Hand of Gork is/was a great tool but it's not as reliable as 2+ with reroll that can't be dispelled.

Note: Btw, I'm agaisnt of baning a tool like that without waiting for their FAQ, but I can understand why some TO don't allow that.

Edited October 13, 2021 by Beliman

[Marcvs]

1 hour ago, Beliman said:

Imho, it's because SCE seems to have other "Tricks" now: 3+ saves or a lot of easy +1 to saves, Scions/Stormkeep, Blaze of Glory or the Holy Orders. Even some SCE players seems to not understand why GW give SCE a  new "tool" as powerful as a prayer with such an easy activation.

Ironjawz, as you said, it is/was all about Mighty Destroyers (that is/was their "Trick" together with their Waaagh) and you need an activator/CP for Mighty Destroyers (even if that is their BIG PLAY). Hand of Gork is/was a great tool but it's not as reliable as 2+ with reroll that can't be dispelled.

Note: Btw, I'm agaisnt of baning a tool like that without waiting for their FAQ, but I can understand why some TO don't allow that.

 

Strike and melt away (living city) still exists and you can use it with SCE units (like fulminators, stardrakes, or indeed SDG) with their 3+ save. Yes it does require a CP but it never fails, doesn't require a specific hero, and works after shooting, making it much easier to delete screens.