CommissarRotke Posted October 5, 2021 Share Posted October 5, 2021 Fair enough! Would love to see aelf and duardin Stormcast, Seraphon would be icing on that cake 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xking Posted October 5, 2021 Share Posted October 5, 2021 48 minutes ago, CommissarRotke said: Fair enough! Would love to see aelf and duardin Stormcast, Seraphon would be icing on that cake Sigmar reforging the aelf and duardin that are devoted to him, would be cool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcvs Posted October 5, 2021 Share Posted October 5, 2021 Just now, xking said: Sigmar reforging the aelf and duardin that are devoted to him, would be cool. I mean, if Vince Venturella can have his RatCasts (Redeemed Skaven), aelfs, duardin and lizardmen are really not that weird Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcvs Posted October 5, 2021 Share Posted October 5, 2021 the battle report on Warhammer TV featuring the drakes has been delayed due to unspecified problems, so no peeking at the base size guys Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scurvydog Posted October 5, 2021 Share Posted October 5, 2021 1 hour ago, Marcvs said: unspecified problems Ermm... world situation makes it hard to stream... erm lorry drivers to deliver batteries... to ermm our studio lightbulbs... erm no that's not right... covid, yea covid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommissarRotke Posted October 5, 2021 Share Posted October 5, 2021 So are we taking bets on the batrep delay being from: A glaring rules issues B audio recording issues C releasing in tandem with dragon preorder D other My guess is A 2 hours ago, xking said: Sigmar reforging the aelf and duardin that are devoted to him, would be cool. I'm wondering if this is an eventuality with expanding Stormcast, or if Grungni will get some kinda power-armor equivalent on his children for a duardin expansion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcvs Posted October 5, 2021 Share Posted October 5, 2021 19 minutes ago, CommissarRotke said: So are we taking bets on the batrep delay being from: A glaring rules issues B audio recording issues C releasing in tandem with dragon preorder D other My guess is A I vote C ( so the batrep will be delayed till Christmas ) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrimeElectrid Posted October 5, 2021 Share Posted October 5, 2021 5 hours ago, Marcvs said: the battle report on Warhammer TV featuring the drakes has been delayed due to unspecified problems, so no peeking at the base size guys Of course, don’t you know that there’s a world wide battle report shortage? All the battle reports are stuck on a boat from China 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ledha Posted October 6, 2021 Share Posted October 6, 2021 (edited) Why do people don't like vigilor ? They don't strike me as top tier but their damage for their cost doesn't seems that low compared to our other ranged units, their melee profile is actually quite correct and the +1 to hit they can give to many of our units seems to be more than worth it and compensante their slighlty lower damage output Plus the models are magnificient Edited October 6, 2021 by ledha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Champasaur Posted October 6, 2021 Share Posted October 6, 2021 42 minutes ago, ledha said: Why do people don't like vigilor ? They don't strike me as top tier but their damage for their cost doesn't seems that low compared to our other ranged units, their melee profile is actually quite correct and the +1 to hit they can give to many of our units seems to be more than worth it and compensante their slighlty lower damage output Plus the models are magnificient It's best to compare them to Judicators, since the Vigilors are only 5 points cheaper Less damage than Juds Less range than Juds Target must take a wound in order to activate the +1 to hit (there are better/more reliable sources of +1 to hit) Overall they are too expensive for what they do, and there are better options for the point cost. I completely agree that the models look beautiful though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackStreicher Posted October 6, 2021 Share Posted October 6, 2021 39 minutes ago, Champasaur said: Overall they are too expensive for what they do, and there are better options for the point cost. Sums up most (except dragons) of the book imo ^^ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Champasaur Posted October 6, 2021 Share Posted October 6, 2021 6 minutes ago, JackStreicher said: Sums up most (except dragons) of the book imo ^^ Hey.. don't talk about my beautiful KJudicator like that 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ledha Posted October 6, 2021 Share Posted October 6, 2021 47 minutes ago, Champasaur said: It's best to compare them to Judicators, since the Vigilors are only 5 points cheaper Less damage than Juds Less range than Juds Target must take a wound in order to activate the +1 to hit (there are better/more reliable sources of +1 to hit) Overall they are too expensive for what they do, and there are better options for the point cost. I completely agree that the models look beautiful though. I mean, with 11 attacks 3+/3+/-1/1 you have to be pretty unlucky to not do at least one wound on the vast majority of units, and the +1 to hit last in shotting AND melee phase, and can affect several units at once if they attack the same target. It seems good value for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Champasaur Posted October 6, 2021 Share Posted October 6, 2021 9 minutes ago, ledha said: I mean, with 11 attacks 3+/3+/-1/1 you have to be pretty unlucky to not do at least one wound on the vast majority of units, and the +1 to hit last in shotting AND melee phase, and can affect several units at once if they attack the same target. It seems good value for me. Lord-Arcanum on Tauralon has his Comet Trail ability, which lasts until your next hero phase. There is no prerequisite to it other than the shooting unit must be within 3" of the Tauralon. LA on Tauralon also has better damage, equal wounds, better save, is a flying 14" monster/wizard for only 90 more points. And also can trigger Cycle of the Storm (watch @PJetski's Stormkeep video to see how/why it is good https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8qbwMyCH-ek&t=82s&ab_channel=TheStormkeep) If you are committing to Vigilors for the +1 to hit bonus, the you should fully commit and spend the extra 90 points to upgrade them to a Tauralon every time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lengthster Posted October 6, 2021 Share Posted October 6, 2021 44 minutes ago, ledha said: Why do people don't like vigilor ? They don't strike me as top tier but their damage for their cost doesn't seems that low compared to our other ranged units, their melee profile is actually quite correct and the +1 to hit they can give to many of our units seems to be more than worth it and compensante their slighlty lower damage output Plus the models are magnificient I'm kind of inclined to agree with you, sweet models, strong hybrid unit. But I think it's mostly down to the role and how they're used compared to similar units. They're not out yet so there hasn't been much testing either. In a vacuum, vigilors are decent at everything and if you had to choose between a single tool or a swiss army knife, the latter is generally more useful. But in an entire army you'll probably have a full tool cabinet and the swiss army knife suddenly isn't as useful. They're just kind of awkward, don't reinforce well, Knight-Judicator doesn't make for a good general. Can't use thunderbolt volley that well, can't shoot with steadfast march, I think if you want MSU skirmishers that can be fast, shoot a bit and finish something in melee, then Tempestors are a good choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ledha Posted October 6, 2021 Share Posted October 6, 2021 32 minutes ago, Champasaur said: Lord-Arcanum on Tauralon has his Comet Trail ability, which lasts until your next hero phase. There is no prerequisite to it other than the shooting unit must be within 3" of the Tauralon. LA on Tauralon also has better damage, equal wounds, better save, is a flying 14" monster/wizard for only 90 more points. And also can trigger Cycle of the Storm (watch @PJetski's Stormkeep video to see how/why it is good https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8qbwMyCH-ek&t=82s&ab_channel=TheStormkeep) If you are committing to Vigilors for the +1 to hit bonus, the you should fully commit and spend the extra 90 points to upgrade them to a Tauralon every time. The comet trail force you to do some placements sheaningans and will likely only affect a few units (except if everyone is close to each other). Vigilors affecting a ennemy unit (especially a deathstar or a big one) mean potentially a bigger part of the army can take profit of it, without any requirement except the vigilors being 18" away of their foe(s) which make it easier to apply, in my eyes. I agree with you on the rest, however Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrimeElectrid Posted October 6, 2021 Share Posted October 6, 2021 Honestly Vigilors are a great support unit that are simply 10-50 points too expensive. Even then I’ve written them into most lists. I really want to pair them along side 6 Longstrikes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scurvydog Posted October 6, 2021 Share Posted October 6, 2021 23 minutes ago, PrimeElectrid said: Honestly Vigilors are a great support unit that are simply 10-50 points too expensive. Even then I’ve written them into most lists. I really want to pair them along side 6 Longstrikes. I would consider them if they were baseline battleline and perhaps at 170 tops. Points are super tight in good stormcast lists. My main concern is they are not guaranteed to get that wound through. As is it would probably be best to get more judicators or raptors if you want more firepower, or get liberators or vindictors for boots on the ground. It is such a shame that Vanquishers and Vigilors are just about the worst, they look so cool. I was completely in disbelief when I saw the 2 attacks with dmg 1 for the vanquishers. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PJetski Posted October 6, 2021 Author Share Posted October 6, 2021 Why are Vigilors bad? Because other units exist that do way more damage with equal or much better range at similar or fewer points, and their +1 Hit bonus is marginalized by so many other effects that give you +1 Hit 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogmantra Posted October 6, 2021 Share Posted October 6, 2021 (edited) Situational point in favour of the Vigilors' +1 to hit is that it's applied in the shooting phase, so you can deepstrike the vigilors on the turn you want to apply it. Some of the other strong hit bonuses (e.g. LA on Tauralon) are Hero or Move Phase so you can't just deepstrike at the last possible moment. I can see this being useful to ensure that you have a chance to get it off vs say, a monster or battleline unit the turn you take the battle tactic to kill it. Edited October 6, 2021 by Dogmantra Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcvs Posted October 6, 2021 Share Posted October 6, 2021 Imho vigilors do have a niche (while being overcosted ofc) in a MSU non-castle build. So IF you're going for that kind of build, then their bonus is really interesting. I just don't see that kind of list in our book, as there's no way to do chain activations in combat, but maybe someone can build it with stopoing pile in shenanigans Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horizons Posted October 6, 2021 Share Posted October 6, 2021 (edited) Holdyourground.pdfWas wondering if anyone has any advice on what could be added to round out this list? Looking to play a redeemer heavy lists that sits on objectives. Was thinking I could bring in a Lord-Celestant on Stardrake with Amulet of Destiny/Drakescale Armour to tie up key threats. My output would be an issue though I think. Any other thoughts? Edited October 6, 2021 by Horizons Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommissarRotke Posted October 6, 2021 Share Posted October 6, 2021 59 minutes ago, Horizons said: Was wondering if anyone has any advice on what could be added to round out this list? Looking to play a redeemer heavy lists that sits on objectives. can you clip this or otherwise make the text larger? cannot read it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horizons Posted October 6, 2021 Share Posted October 6, 2021 27 minutes ago, CommissarRotke said: can you clip this or otherwise make the text larger? cannot read it I edited it. Hopefully it's clearer. Jist of the list is Gardus with Praetors. Lord-Arcanum on Gryph Charger, 2 Stormstrike Chariots and 20 Vindictors. (10 Man, 2x 5 man). Chariots feel like a good tool to pin people in 3+ save with -1 to hit. They also look great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SugarWaterPurple Posted October 6, 2021 Share Posted October 6, 2021 What is everyone's opinion of Stormstrike Chariots? I am struggling with understanding how they fit into a conventional list given their weird point value. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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