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Stormcast Eternals 3.0 - There is no "a" in Vindictors


PJetski
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If an army doesn't have tourney winning lists that is a GOOD thing! Balanced. Armies. Don't. Win. Tournaments.

We want to reign in the top stuff, because that's how to get an actually diverse array of tournament builds. Promoting top cheese just means each army gets zero to two viable builds. Tourney players who want to have options are best served by pushing as hard as possible to get the currently strongest ones nerfed. Even if power builds from other armies are left initially untouched, removing others from the picture highlights the problem elements making them more likely to be fixed in the future.

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12 minutes ago, NinthMusketeer said:

If an army doesn't have tourney winning lists that is a GOOD thing! Balanced. Armies. Don't. Win. Tournaments.

We want to reign in the top stuff, because that's how to get an actually diverse array of tournament builds. Promoting top cheese just means each army gets zero to two viable builds. Tourney players who want to have options are best served by pushing as hard as possible to get the currently strongest ones nerfed. Even if power builds from other armies are left initially untouched, removing others from the picture highlights the problem elements making them more likely to be fixed in the future.

Except we don’t play events in this theoretical state where the top lists are reigned in. We have to play in events where Sons, Archaon, Sentinels, Seraphon are rolling over everything right now, and GW have shown no interest in doing anything about it.

Nerfing stormdrakes and Translocaiton won’t bring SCE into line with some hypothetical middle pack; it will gut the army competitively, leaving it reliant on a) Scions Annihilators (killed by at least 3 battleplans let alone competent screening), or b) Redeemer wall. That’s the opposite of what you’re trying to acheive

Edited by PrimeElectrid
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2 hours ago, Marcvs said:

Bastian

He's amazing. Love the model and the rules but my army isn't gold and I'm really not sure if a green Bastian will fly. Against friends I'm sure it'll be fine but I do like to attend tournies, including Warhammer World, and I've no idea how people think about colour/factions competitively. 

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This is beyond a farce now.

Earliest release date is October 23rd. That will be 6 weeks from the book preorder date. Bear in mind that was delayed by 2 weeks (should have been last week of August), we’re talking an 8 week delay.

And nothing on the communication front.

Edited by PrimeElectrid
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Now I am also starting to worry if they will even release a FAQ before they release all this super delayed stuff... I want to at least bring something from the new book for a november event, but it is not allowed without a FAQ for the book... I just did not imagine in my wildest dreams that would have become a problem...

All this "world situation" excuses are just silly at thís point, they can obviously ship all kinds of other stuff, so it must be something else locking down the Stormcast stuff.

Edited by Scurvydog
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1 hour ago, PrimeElectrid said:

Nerfing stormdrakes and Translocaiton won’t bring SCE into line with some hypothetical middle pack; it will gut the army competitively, leaving it reliant on a) Scions Annihilators (killed by at least 3 battleplans let alone competent screening), or b) Redeemer wall. That’s the opposite of what you’re trying to acheive

Aiming for the middle of the pack will slow down the power-creep, and that's good in my book. Of course it will suck for competitive people but it will be good for anyone else.

Of course that can backfire if the next battletomes are over the top, but that's another thing to talk about.

Edited by Beliman
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Played a 2K game with the new book today with what Stormcast I own i.e. pre-Dominion.

Was good fun, we played the first battleplan in the GHB21 as I was refreshing the core rules and learning my new book, whilst it was my opponent's first game of 3rd Ed. He played Sylvaneth (Drycha, Treelord Ancient, Treeman, 2x 20 Dryads, 10x Tree-Revenants, 3x Hunters with Scythes, 3x Hunters with Swords, 2x Branchwychs)

We called it after the first turn in Round 3, by which point I'd taken the middle and left flank, nailing the 6 kurnoth hunters with the Sequitors and Judicators, whilst my Paladins killed 20 Dryads, 10 Tree-revenants, Drycha and a Branchwych.

Sadly I didn't get to use either of my unique command abilities (Unleash thy hatred or Call for aid) but Rally and All-out Attack were super useful. I got good value from my Decimators and Retributors I feel, and the Sequitors outperformed themselves. Lost four models overall. Unfortunately the Sylvaneth couldn't put up with the high armour saves or deal enough mortal wounds to really damage my force.

Translocation was crucial to the win though - I used Scions on the Retributors and Decimators and both failed their charges, even with re-rolling one of them with a CP. Being able to Translocate and then move made it much easier to get in charge range. Space was an issue for scions and indeed Ride the winds aetheric on the Palladors, I'd probably go Stormkeep next time, just not easy to drop in behind.

My army:

Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals
- Stormhost: Knights Excelsior
- Grand Strategy: Prized Sorcery
- Triumphs:

Leaders
Lord-Arcanum on Gryph-Charger (195)*
- General
- Command Trait: Master of Magic
- Mount Trait: Scintillating Trail
- Spell: Starfall
Lord-Castellant (155)*
- Artefact: Arcane Tome (Universal Artefact)
- Spell: Celestial Blades
Lord-Relictor (145)*
- Prayer: Translocation
Knight-Incantor (125)**
- Spell: Lightning Blast
Knight-Incantor (125)**
- Spell: Azyrite Halo

Battleline
5 x Decimators (215)*
- 2x Starsoul Maces
5 x Retributors (235)*
5 x Liberators (115)**
- Heavens-wrought Weapon and Shield
- 1x Grandhammers
5 x Liberators (115)**
- Heavens-wrought Weapon and Shield
- 1x Grandhammers
5 x Sequitors (145)**
- Stormsmite Mauls and Soulshields
- 3x Stormsmite Greatmaces
5 x Judicators with Skybolt Bows (200)**

Units
3 x Vanguard-Palladors (215)
- Boltstorm Pistols and Starstrike Javelins

Core Battalions
*Warlord
**Battle Regiment

Total: 1985 / 2000
Reinforced Units: 0 / 4
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 117
Drops: 7
 

 

 

 

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12 minutes ago, Beliman said:

Aiming for the middle of the pack will slow down the power-creep, and that's good in my book. Of course it will suck for competitive people but it will be good for anyone else.

Of course that can backfire if the next battletomes are over the top, but that's another thing to talk about.

That would be fine if we were starting from 0 with no legacy stuff to deal with, but the reality is that there are existing strong books that GW have failed to reign in; that these books will exist unchanged until at least Xmas; and GW has a demonstrable track record of being unable to control themselves when it comes to mid-cycle power creep.

Asking for a middling book early is asking to be weak for the entire edition.

Edited by PrimeElectrid
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4 minutes ago, PrimeElectrid said:

That would be fine if we were starting from 0 with no legacy stuff to deal with, but the reality is that there are existing strong books that GW have failed to reign in; that these books will exist unchanged until at least Xmas; and GW has a demonstrable track record of being unable to control themselves when it comes to mid-cycle power creep.

Asking for a middling book early is asking to be weak for the entire edition.

Yep, I know, and I still think it's fine. I underrstand that some peole will go mad about that, but if the whole edition can tone down the power creep, it will be good. If not, it will suck no matter what.

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7 hours ago, Kaleydoscope said:

This. I have no idea how something like this can be intentional or slipping through before releasing that battletome. Why would anyone use the Knight-Relictor besides him being somewhat cool model-wise? I can imagine using one as another count-as Lord-Relictor but besides that... Even when the Lord-R. would rise in points significantly, I would prefer him 80% of the time. Will anyone be using the Knight-Arcanum? I like the model, but I guess it will cosplay a Knight-Incantor or Lord-Arcanum.

Knight Relictor skill should've been a (non-endless) spell nullification too, but I guess that would've pushed out Knight Arcanum's bubble... which should be larger than 3" anyway IMHO

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4 hours ago, Scurvydog said:

Me looking at next weeks preorders week after week

Son, I am disappoint.. - Imgur

at this point I just want them to say more about 3.0 in general like... is this the Year of the Beast or not???

4 hours ago, Starfyre said:

Space was an issue for scions and indeed Ride the winds aetheric on the Palladors

space on the board or space to plop them down from Scions? also, how do you like Pallador javelins in 3.0?

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5 hours ago, PrimeElectrid said:

Except we don’t play events in this theoretical state where the top lists are reigned in. We have to play in events where Sons, Archaon, Sentinels, Seraphon are rolling over everything right now, and GW have shown no interest in doing anything about it.

Nerfing stormdrakes and Translocaiton won’t bring SCE into line with some hypothetical middle pack; it will gut the army competitively, leaving it reliant on a) Scions Annihilators (killed by at least 3 battleplans let alone competent screening), or b) Redeemer wall. That’s the opposite of what you’re trying to acheive

See this, this is bad-faith. Either GW cares about stuff breaking the game and is willing to nerf other armies as well, or they don't and you should have no concern about them nerfing SCE.

Secondly, they have repeatedly shown they are willing to act even if the implementation is far from perfect. Hell, one of those you listed (Archaon) was nerfed in the last round for FAQs. So either you don't know that and are trying to discuss this with me despite being uninformed, or do know that and are ignoring factss to create a double-standard.

If you aren't going to treat me with even a basic level of respect, there's nothing else I have to say.

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11 hours ago, Kaleydoscope said:

This. I have no idea how something like this can be intentional or slipping through before releasing that battletome. Why would anyone use the Knight-Relictor besides him being somewhat cool model-wise? I can imagine using one as another count-as Lord-Relictor but besides that... Even when the Lord-R. would rise in points significantly, I would prefer him 80% of the time. Will anyone be using the Knight-Arcanum? I like the model, but I guess it will cosplay a Knight-Incantor or Lord-Arcanum.

Knight-Relictor denies negative effect of prayers and invocations on 4+. 

And I like the model.

I will use him as I often play against Khorne and Fyreslayers. 

 

Same goes for the Knight-Arcanum.

Auto Unbinding 1 Spell can be good value, but mostly against some one-trick-pony-builds that are getting extinct the more tomes are going to be released. 

Against the right opponent (using 1+ endless spells) the Arcanum is more consistent with her ability to block endless spells moving to their targets.

 

Both Knights are relatively niche, I agree, but in the right situation they impact a game more than Lord-Relictor/Knight-Incantor. 

And sometimes good rules are about diversity. 

 

Edit: Also, you can include Lord-Relictor AND Knight-Relictor in the same „priest-heavy“ list to get both 2+ rerollable translocation AND 4+ protection bubble against enemy priests. 

 

Same goes for Arcanum/Incantor.

Edited by Phasteon
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54 minutes ago, NinthMusketeer said:

If you aren't going to treat me with even a basic level of respect, there's nothing else I have to say.

I think it’s bad-faith you assume he isn’t treating you with a basic level of respect. 
 

I think we should just cool off. I don’t believe anyone here is intentionally trying to be rude or disrespectful. And we all just wanna talk about the game 👍

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I am on the same page with the mindset, but when someone rolls in and just states an objective falsehood to my face as a response, what am I supposed to assume? When they raise a double standard where SCE shouldn't be nerfed but the other guys should, where's the good faith in that? How do I interpet that argument in a way where it isn't toxic?

Because letting toxicity ferment without addressing it will just breed more.

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1 hour ago, NinthMusketeer said:

but when someone rolls in and just states an objective falsehood to my face as a response, what am I supposed to assume

we're talking about a game that has multiple versions of rules, plus innumerable FAQ changes... you assume that they haven't heard of the most recent rules/FAQ change. Ask clarification questions about their response and/or how they took your comment, before jumping the gun with your own retort.

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1 hour ago, NinthMusketeer said:

Because letting toxicity ferment without addressing it will just breed more.

I would be careful presuming you objectively know GW’s interests and disinterests based off a single FAQ. 


Even with the Archaon’s nerf to his rerolling 6s, I still feel like he is incredibly top tier (I still have like a 90% WR with him). So much so that he still dominates the meta alongside Lumineth, SoB, and DoK. Just because GW nerfed Archaon in the most recent FAQ does not mean they are interested in nerfing the top four factions down to an equal level. At least for sure it isn’t an objective truth. And there certainly is enough wiggle room to presume that someone else is not being toxic by stating otherwise

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1 hour ago, Dream said:

Are we ever getting new models for a FAQ! Sick of this radio silence from GW. Seriously just communicate what is going and give us a few updates. Literally do anything please GW.

They didn't tell us anything about Cursed City. They didn't communicate at all when there was a massive shortage of their spray primer and paint. They're not going to tell us anything now. And besides, no matter what they say, it doesn't change the fact that we just gotta keep waiting until we get the stuff we want.

If you want FAQ material, make sure you e-mail their FAQ team with your questions. That tends to help actually. A lot of people just assume GW knows all the issues when they arise, but the more e-mails that come in to their FAQ team, the more likely they are to address it. That's why FAQ stands for "Frequently Asked Questions" and not "Frequently Complained About Questions Online"

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