Stormcast Eternals 3.0 - There is no "a" in Vindictors

[Turragor]

47 minutes ago, Scurvydog said:

the instant kill mechanics of both. These work in a similar manner, the Stardrake can simply do this 3 times, which can be a big difference in output when outright slaying blightkings or troggoths on a 5+.

would just note that even though you're not comparing them, it can be useful to acknowledge that the drakes version 'cavernous jaws' is so, so much better than the knight draconis 'dragged into the tempest'

Jaws - you choose x 3

Knight draconis - opponent chooses x 1

The choosing party is what makes or breaks this imo

[Marcvs]

58 minutes ago, Scurvydog said:

The ranged attack of the Stardrake is more useful as well in my opinion and often ignored, at 30" range it can quite reliably outright snipe a support hero, with all out attack on top it is about 5,5 average dmg against a 4+ save, which also makes it useful to finish of a model too, take out a demon prince in 2 shooting phases or single handedly just get those 3 wounds per turn removed from Morathi right from the start of the game thanks to 30" range.

another good use of that shooting attack is to finish off a weakened battleline unit and get the bonus VP for broken ranks

[PJetski]

16 minutes ago, Marcvs said:

another good use of that shooting attack is to finish off a weakened battleline unit and get the bonus VP for broken ranks

Yep. I have actually considered giving the Stardrake an Arcane Tome (with Chain Lightning) rather than an Amulet of Destiny just so he can help score Battle Tactics in the hero phase.

[Champasaur]

3 hours ago, PJetski said:

I would agree with this, the difference between Liberators and Vindictors is very minimal. If you don't give them save buffs the 3+ save characteristic is exactly the same as a 4+ save with +1 to save rolls.

In the original post I was asking about Vindictors to Sequitors. Would it be more valuable to save the points for a triumph rather than upgrade them?

[Tizianolol]

Guys anyone found gardus on tabletop simulator? I was sure he was there but I didnt find him;(

[AR605]

Any thoughts on this list? I‘m not sure if the Sentinels are so clever for ranged pressure…

The Dragons are deadly and have enough utility to threaten enemy units / objectives themselves.

The Annihilators rain down in rounds 1 and 2 for key targets or to bind units.

The Vanari should soften any targets.

    1x Knight-Draconis (General)
        Points Cost: 255 pts
    2x Stormdrake Guard 
        Points Cost: 285 pts
    2x Stormdrake Guard 
        Points Cost: 285 pts
    2x Stormdrake Guard 
        Points Cost: 285 pts

    1x Lord-Imperatant 
        Points Cost: 175 pts
    3x Annihilators 
        Points Cost: 200 pts
    3x Annihilators 
        Points Cost: 200 pts

    20x Vanari Auralan Sentinels  (Ally) 
        Points Cost: 300 pts

Total Points: 1985 pts

[jeanfluflu]

Hey everyone.

I was thinking about something the other day, we lost the heraldor ability to run and charge which is sad because concussors that are much better now would have loved that ability 'we have it now but only once per battle and it is an order which means no auto run at 6" and then charge because it is 2 orders on a same unit).

I was creating some funny lists and looking at the core batallions i thought about the vanguard batallion.
It says that the unit of this batallion can recieve the order "at the double" without a command point being spent and the command being issued.

My question is simple, since the command isn't issued, is it possible to then spend a CP to make a unit run 6" then? 
Technically the unit has not yet recieved an order so it can get the auto run at 6" with a CP being spent.

What do you think?

[Marcvs]

35 minutes ago, jeanfluflu said:

Hey everyone.

I was thinking about something the other day, we lost the heraldor ability to run and charge which is sad because concussors that are much better now would have loved that ability 'we have it now but only once per battle and it is an order which means no auto run at 6" and then charge because it is 2 orders on a same unit).

I was creating some funny lists and looking at the core batallions i thought about the vanguard batallion.
It says that the unit of this batallion can recieve the order "at the double" without a command point being spent and the command being issued.

My question is simple, since the command isn't issued, is it possible to then spend a CP to make a unit run 6" then? 
Technically the unit has not yet recieved an order so it can get the auto run at 6" with a CP being spent.

What do you think?

I would say that they still receive a command (it's in the text of the battalion) and a unit still can't receive two commands in the same phase

[jeanfluflu]

24 minutes ago, Marcvs said:

I would say that they still receive a command (it's in the text of the battalion) and a unit still can't receive two commands in the same phase

ok thanks, i was expecting a loophole in this, something like "if a command ability has not been issued it can't be considered as received as well" but it seems logical this way.
It just guarantee that you can in fact run or reroll a charge wherever you are or if you had a CP or not....fair enough.

[Scurvydog]

9 hours ago, AR605 said:

Any thoughts on this list? I‘m not sure if the Sentinels are so clever for ranged pressure…

The Dragons are deadly and have enough utility to threaten enemy units / objectives themselves.

The Annihilators rain down in rounds 1 and 2 for key targets or to bind units.

The Vanari should soften any targets.

    1x Knight-Draconis (General)
        Points Cost: 255 pts
    2x Stormdrake Guard 
        Points Cost: 285 pts
    2x Stormdrake Guard 
        Points Cost: 285 pts
    2x Stormdrake Guard 
        Points Cost: 285 pts

    1x Lord-Imperatant 
        Points Cost: 175 pts
    3x Annihilators 
        Points Cost: 200 pts
    3x Annihilators 
        Points Cost: 200 pts

    20x Vanari Auralan Sentinels  (Ally) 
        Points Cost: 300 pts

Total Points: 1985 pts

I do not think the imperatant and annihilators are really worth it, almost 600 points to deliver 2 units of 9 wounds worth of guys, for a similar feel, but more efficient combat activation and command point usage I would consider this list to be quite solid:

Knight-Draconis (255)
- General
Lord-Imperatant (175)
4 x Stormdrake Guard (570)
- Reinforced x 1
5 x Liberators (115)
- Heavens-wrought Weapon and Shield
10 x Judicators with Skybolt Bows (400)
- Reinforced x 1
6 x Annihilators with Meteoric Grandhammers (480)
- Reinforced x 1

You got 3 hammers and the judicators can be used to fire twice once per game, which could allow you to clear screens for the annihilators for example. The Lord imperatant can move up with the judicators and support them and possibly liberators. Between the judicators and drakes there is quite some significant ranged firepower as well and the knight draconis can make them fire twice, A salvo from 4 of them should be around 6ish mortal wounds (swingy) and fire twice is quite dangerous!

For Stormhost I'd say hammers to get some 6+ wards going would benefit this elite list. I am quite liking this take actually and it does not rely on Lord Relictors translocation not being FAQd

[AR605]

3 hours ago, Scurvydog said:

I am quite liking this take actually and it does not rely on Lord Relictors translocation not being FAQd

This exactly is my fear, too. Therefore the list dies not depend on it and also doesn‘t stack dragons to the points limit.

Would you replace the Annihilators with 6x Raptors? Just to double down on shooting and supporting the dragons? Because now we replaced the 200pts Annihilators (somewhat of an anvil) for the 240pts Annihilators…

I would switch the Libs for Vindictors, because I don‘t own any Libs.

[Tizianolol]

Guys " drazzling radiance " yndrasta ability how work when opponent makes 1 hero monster fight like he got 0 wounds taken ( with 1 command point) ? Its 0+10 =10 wounds? Sy for english!

Edited October 1, 2021 by Tizianolol

[Dogmantra]

26 minutes ago, Tizianolol said:

Guys " drazzling radiance " yndrasta ability how work when opponent makes 1 hero monster fight like he got 0 wounds taken ( with 1 command point) ? Its 0+10 =10 wounds? Sy for english!

The stormcast FAQ has an answer to this based on a different effect, but the command ability that makes a monster fight as if it had taken 0 wounds has the same timing as well:

Quote

Q: Can you explain how Yndrasta’s ‘The Prime Huntress’ ability works with a contradictory effect like the Alarith Spirit of the Mountain’s ‘Stonemage Symbiosis’ ability?
A: The Prime Huntress triggers when the damage table of a Monster is used to determine a characteristic or ability. As both of these effects trigger at the same time, they are classed as Simultaneous Effects (1.6.2). This means that the player whose turn is taking place applies the effects of their ability first, then their opponent does the same.

So what happens depends on whose turn it is. On the Stormcast player's turn, Yndrasta first adds ten to the number of wounds the monster has suffered (because the player whose turn it is applies all their effects first), and then their opponent resolves their effects, treating the monster as having suffered 0 wounds - so it would fight at its best on the Stormcast player's turn.

On the opponent's turn, first the opponent resolves their effects so the monster is treated as suffering 0 wounds, then Yndrasta's effect happens, so the monster would fight as if it had suffered 10 wounds.

It's a strange outcome, but that's how it works according to 1.6.2: Simultaneous Effects.

[Scurvydog]

3 minutes ago, AR605 said:

This exactly is my fear, too. Therefore the list dies not depend on it and also doesn‘t stack dragons to the points limit.

Would you replace the Annihilators with 6x Raptors? Just to double down on shooting and supporting the dragons? Because now we replaced the 200pts Annihilators (somewhat of an anvil) for the 240pts Annihilators…

I would switch the Libs for Vindictors, because I don‘t own any Libs.

I think that would make the list a bit too light on bodies, only engaging at 1 spot, perhaps 2 with the knight does not create all that much pressure. With only 1 use of the hero phase shooting, I think multiple ranged units become much less efficient, the great Value lies in that initial double tap to support the dragon charge. 

There are a bunch of DPS check lists in the meta right now, which is why there is a 6 man greathammer unit of annihilators, they do so much more damage, yet are less tanky of course. The 2x3 shield annihilators is not unplayable though.

The above list sits at 1995 but there are of course options to do other stuff. 

Like this below, Knights Excelsior is needed here for battleline purposes, you could of course go with less, but then the imperatant becomes too costly to just "deliver" 1 unit I think. It loses out on hammers with a good chance of having 6+ wards in many cases, which hurts some, but ofc the annihilators become a bit better, especially with the +1 hit/+1 wound ability of knights excelsior, just take them into larger units to tank if possible.

Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals
- Stormhost: Knights Excelsior
- Grand Strategy:
- Triumphs:
Knight-Draconis (255)
- General
Lord-Imperatant (175)
4 x Stormdrake Guard (570)
- Reinforced x 1
3 x Annihilators (200)
3 x Annihilators (200)
15 x Judicators with Skybolt Bows (600)
- Reinforced x 2

I

[Tizianolol]

Thx a 

10 minutes ago, Dogmantra said:

The stormcast FAQ has an answer to this based on a different effect, but the command ability that makes a monster fight as if it had taken 0 wounds has the same timing as well:

So what happens depends on whose turn it is. On the Stormcast player's turn, Yndrasta first adds ten to the number of wounds the monster has suffered (because the player whose turn it is applies all their effects first), and then their opponent resolves their effects, treating the monster as having suffered 0 wounds - so it would fight at its best on the Stormcast player's turn.

On the opponent's turn, first the opponent resolves their effects so the monster is treated as suffering 0 wounds, then Yndrasta's effect happens, so the monster would fight as if it had suffered 10 wounds.

It's a strange outcome, but that's how it works according to 1.6.2: Simultaneous Effects.

Thx a lot! Thats very strange, about this ability for stormcast player is better the situation that happen in opponent turn!! Should be at least the opposite!!

[AR605]

1 hour ago, Scurvydog said:

There are a bunch of DPS check lists in the meta right now, which is why there is a 6 man greathammer unit of annihilators, they do so much more damage, yet are less tanky of course.

Than let's utilise that:

- Stormhost: Hammers of Sigmar
Knight-Draconis (255)
- General
Lord-Imperatant (175)
Knight-Azyros (120)
2 x Stormdrake Guard (285)
2 x Stormdrake Guard (285)
10 x Judicators with Skybolt Bows (400)
6 x Annihilators with Meteoric Grandhammers (480)

Total: 2000 / 2000

With the Knight-Azyros buff, the Annihilators hit on 2+/2+/-2/3 with overall 19 attacks, sounds pretty good to me...

[readercolin]

18 hours ago, AR605 said:

Any thoughts on this list? I‘m not sure if the Sentinels are so clever for ranged pressure…

The Dragons are deadly and have enough utility to threaten enemy units / objectives themselves.

The Annihilators rain down in rounds 1 and 2 for key targets or to bind units.

The Vanari should soften any targets.

    1x Knight-Draconis (General)
        Points Cost: 255 pts
    2x Stormdrake Guard 
        Points Cost: 285 pts
    2x Stormdrake Guard 
        Points Cost: 285 pts
    2x Stormdrake Guard 
        Points Cost: 285 pts

    1x Lord-Imperatant 
        Points Cost: 175 pts
    3x Annihilators 
        Points Cost: 200 pts
    3x Annihilators 
        Points Cost: 200 pts

    20x Vanari Auralan Sentinels  (Ally) 
        Points Cost: 300 pts

Total Points: 1985 pts

My primary concern is the potential output of the Sentinals, and the fact that they don't get any particular synergies from the stormcast side of things.  For reference, if the sentinals can't get their spell off, they are only putting out ~6 damage before saves with their lofted shots, and ~8 with their aimed.  If they get their spell off, then that goes to ~8 damage with their lofted shots and ~9.5 with their aimed.  However, they have no bonuses to cast, and they are literally the only spellcaster in your list, so getting the spell off is going to be somewhat questionable.

The big comparisons here would be a unit of judicators or a unit of vanguard raptors.  Judicators with bows will do ~5.5 damage before saves, while vanguard raptors will do 7, and all 3 of these units will deal some extra mortal wounds.  However, the Judicators and Raptors can benefit from the once-per-game shoot in the hero phase command ability, or just get a free command ability from the Lord-Imperitant who is probably just going to be standing next to them for most of the game.  This also frees up 60-100 points, which you could use to upgrade the annihilators to have the grandhammers instead of shields, and noticeably increase their damage output at the same time.

Personally, if you were going a list like this, I would rather cut the sentinals and 1 of the units of annihilators for a reinforced unit of judicators or raptors.  Alternatively, lean more into the Annihilators and bring a unit of 6 with grandhammers, as that will actually be able to do some work (I have not been impressed with annihilators with shields).  Lastly, I would look to consolidate one of the units of stormdrake guard in to a unit of 4, so that way they can act as a better hammer (all going at once in melee), and better benefit from the Knight-Draconis's once-per-game ability.  This would require you to either run the stormhost that makes paladins battleline, or bring a squad of judicators though.

Edited October 1, 2021 by readercolin

[Champasaur]

Here is a question about Annihilators (Both variants). Their warscroll states under Blazing Impact: "In addition, you can re-roll charge rolls for this unit if it was set up on the battlefield in the same turn." Would this work with Translocate? It is separate from the previous clause (D3 MW within 10") which procs when they are set up on the battlefield for the first time.

So if I, for example, was to drop the Annihilators with Scions in on turn 1. Then on turn 2 I translocate them to another point on the map, would they get to re-roll charges?

EDIT: Another question. If a Lord-Imperatant deepstrikes first with Scions, could he then guide a Thunderstrike unit that lands after him on the same turn?

Edited October 1, 2021 by Champasaur

[AR605]

15 minutes ago, Champasaur said:

Here is a question about Annihilators (Both variants). Their warscroll states under Blazing Impact: "In addition, you can re-roll charge rolls for this unit if it was set up on the battlefield in the same turn." Would this work with Translocate? It is separate from the previous clause (D3 MW within 10") which procs when they are set up on the battlefield for the first time.

So if I, for example, was to drop the Annihilators with Scions in on turn 1. Then on turn 2 I translocate them to another point on the map, would they get to re-roll charges?

EDIT: Another question. If a Lord-Imperatant deepstrikes first with Scions, could he then guide a Thunderstrike unit that lands after him on the same turn?

As I understand it, you can use "Blazing Impact" with Translocate for the re-roll of charges, because it is an additional (seperated from the condition "for the first time") thing. But in my opionion, it's not well worded and I think it is not ment like that.

The Lord-Imperatant must be on the battlefield at the end of the movement phase, than "Scions of the Storm" can happen and one unit can be set up more than 7" from all enemy units. He can't rain down first, an than the other unit, because the setup of units happen simultaneously, as I understand it.

[PJetski]

1 minute ago, AR605 said:

As I understand it, you can use "Blazing Impact" with Translocate for the re-roll of charges, because it is an additional (seperated from the condition "for the first time") thing. But in my opionion, it's not well worded and I think it is not ment like that.

The Lord-Imperatant must be on the battlefield at the end of the movement phase, than "Scions of the Storm" can happen and one unit can be set up more than 7" from all enemy units. He can't rain down first, an than the other unit, because the setup of units happen simultaneously, as I understand it.

Nothing in AOS happens simultaneously. All attacks, abilities, and effects are resolved one at a time. If they happen at the same time (eg. "at the end of a phase") then you still resolve them one at a time. Fully resolve one effect before moving on to the next.

You can drop Imperatant with Scions and then the Annihilators >7" away since the Imperatant is now on the battlefield.

[Champasaur]

2 minutes ago, PJetski said:

Nothing in AOS happens simultaneously. All attacks, abilities, and effects are resolved one at a time. If they happen at the same time (eg. "at the end of a phase") then you still resolve them one at a time. Fully resolve one effect before moving on to the next.

You can drop Imperatant with Scions and then the Annihilators >7" away since the Imperatant is now on the battlefield.

I assumed this was the case because all of the triggers happen at the end of the movement phase, but it still is tricky. 

[AR605]

8 minutes ago, PJetski said:

You can drop Imperatant with Scions and then the Annihilators >7" away since the Imperatant is now on the battlefield.

But it states specifically "...if any friendly units with this ability are on the battlefield, they will guide the arrival of Sigmar's warriors. If you do so, pick 1 friendly Stormcast Eternals Thunderstrike unit [...] that is in reserve. When you use the Scions of the Storm to set up that unit on the battlefield..."

So it has to be on the battlefield before you use Scions of the Storm...

[PJetski]

18 minutes ago, AR605 said:

But it states specifically "...if any friendly units with this ability are on the battlefield, they will guide the arrival of Sigmar's warriors. If you do so, pick 1 friendly Stormcast Eternals Thunderstrike unit [...] that is in reserve. When you use the Scions of the Storm to set up that unit on the battlefield..."

So it has to be on the battlefield before you use Scions of the Storm...

If you didn't believe me the first time, here is the FAQ:

You can drop the Imperatant and then the Annihilators. The Imperatant deployment must be fully resolved before you can deploy the Annihilators.

[AR605]

27 minutes ago, PJetski said:

You can drop the Imperatant and then the Annihilators. The Imperatant deployment must be fully resolved before you can deploy the Annihilators.

Ok, you persuaded me 😅

That enables a few more tactical shenanigans...

[JackStreicher]

So, since SCE are super vulnerable to MWs especially since we’re putting an only an average of 26 models on the table, I‘d like to know if anyone found a way to make our units more resilient? Every MW hurts my soul when playing SCE 🥲