Scurvydog Posted September 23, 2021 Share Posted September 23, 2021 23 minutes ago, Juicy said: this just blew my mind, its already hard to justify prosecutors. And this even makes it harder. That extra damage on 9+ range didnt hurt anyone. Hated to see this go Yea not really sure what they are thinking with the Prosecutors, they don't really fit in anywhere. Too pillowfisted to be shock troops, but their 3d6 charge indicates that is what they are meant for. 6 of them costs more than 3 paladors, which are just superior if pure mobility is the goal and just about anything else will do more damage for the points. It is a shame, I would rather have them as expensive elite types, expensive flying liberators is not really efficient in any way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matto3 Posted September 23, 2021 Share Posted September 23, 2021 (edited) Hello, till now i was mainly reading great posts from you. I just want to ask why I am seeing +1 save stacking (castelant, all out defence, mystic shield..), isnt +1 gap in this edition ? I want to paint some list and play with it for a while, so i did this list...I am not conviced for stormhost and I would apreciate some ideas with listbuilding. I was thinking droping Vindictors for some underworld bands and change retributors for protectors ??, and use spare point for some more magic, but i dont want to lose 2 units. Thx for reading ... (it scions of the storms) Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals - Stormhost: Hammers of Sigmar - Grand Strategy: - Triumphs: Lord-Relictor (145) - General - Command Trait: High Priest - Artefact: Arcane Tome (Universal Artefact) - Spell: Celestial Blades - Prayer: TranslocationYndrasta, The Celestial Spear (320)5 x Vindictors (130)5 x Vindictors (130)10 x Judicators with Skybolt Bows (400) - Reinforced x 13 x Annihilators (200)3 x Annihilators (200)5 x Retributors (235)5 x Retributors (235)Holy Command: Thunderbolt VolleyTotal: 1995 / 2000Reinforced Units: 1 / 4Allies: 0 / 400Wounds: 102Drops: 9 Edited September 23, 2021 by Matto3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrimeElectrid Posted September 23, 2021 Share Posted September 23, 2021 2 hours ago, Matto3 said: Hello, till now i was mainly reading great posts from you. I just want to ask why I am seeing +1 save stacking (castelant, all out defence, mystic shield..), isnt +1 gap in this edition ? I want to paint some list and play with it for a while, so i did this list...I am not conviced for stormhost and I would apreciate some ideas with listbuilding. I was thinking droping Vindictors for some underworld bands and change retributors for protectors ??, and use spare point for some more magic, but i dont want to lose 2 units. Thx for reading ... (it scions of the storms) Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals - Stormhost: Hammers of Sigmar - Grand Strategy: - Triumphs: Lord-Relictor (145) - General - Command Trait: High Priest - Artefact: Arcane Tome (Universal Artefact) - Spell: Celestial Blades - Prayer: TranslocationYndrasta, The Celestial Spear (320)5 x Vindictors (130)5 x Vindictors (130)10 x Judicators with Skybolt Bows (400) - Reinforced x 13 x Annihilators (200)3 x Annihilators (200)5 x Retributors (235)5 x Retributors (235)Holy Command: Thunderbolt VolleyTotal: 1995 / 2000Reinforced Units: 1 / 4Allies: 0 / 400Wounds: 102Drops: 9 You can benefit from max +1 save but that’s after modifiers. If your save is 3+ with +1 save facing rend 1, you go back to a 3+ (+1-1 Net 0 save modifier). But if you have +2 save bonus you effectively ignore rend 1 and go to a 2+ save (+2-1 net +1 save modifier). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scurvydog Posted September 23, 2021 Share Posted September 23, 2021 2 hours ago, Matto3 said: Hello, till now i was mainly reading great posts from you. I just want to ask why I am seeing +1 save stacking (castelant, all out defence, mystic shield..), isnt +1 gap in this edition ? I want to paint some list and play with it for a while, so i did this list...I am not conviced for stormhost and I would apreciate some ideas with listbuilding. I was thinking droping Vindictors for some underworld bands and change retributors for protectors ??, and use spare point for some more magic, but i dont want to lose 2 units. Thx for reading ... (it scions of the storms) Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals - Stormhost: Hammers of Sigmar - Grand Strategy: - Triumphs: Lord-Relictor (145) - General - Command Trait: High Priest - Artefact: Arcane Tome (Universal Artefact) - Spell: Celestial Blades - Prayer: TranslocationYndrasta, The Celestial Spear (320)5 x Vindictors (130)5 x Vindictors (130)10 x Judicators with Skybolt Bows (400) - Reinforced x 13 x Annihilators (200)3 x Annihilators (200)5 x Retributors (235)5 x Retributors (235)Holy Command: Thunderbolt VolleyTotal: 1995 / 2000Reinforced Units: 1 / 4Allies: 0 / 400Wounds: 102Drops: 9 I'm guessing this is a bit more of a casual list, in that case take things with a grain of salt, but right now this list got a lot of slow dudes in small squads and no Lord Imperatant. That means it is very difficult to get these guys anywhere useful, as the annihilators can't drop closer thanks to the imperatant and the relictor can only teleport 1 unit. Even though paladins are tougher now, slogging it across the board with a 4" movement will not amount to much. I would recommend changing the 2x5 retributors to 10 protectors. They are great to teleport and much more efficinet in a big unit, both for commands, teleporting and they are also tougher with +1 saves, meaning with all out defense they can still sit at a 2+ against rend 1, being very hard to shift. There is not much wiggle room unless you drop hammers of sigmar and go knights excelsior for paladin battleline, but without a lord imperatant, I do not think you will get much mileage out of the annihilators when they have to drop in 9" away. If sticking with hammers, it could be quite fun to drop the vindictors and 1 unit of annihilators and instead get 2x2 fulminators, those guys hurt like hell on the charge so bad even 1 of them might kill a behemoth on its own. You could then send them in waves with the relictor after the protectors lock down their front lines. 230 points of fulminators charging like that are better than even hammer annihilators, as they are much more mobile, hit harder on the charge and can be a bit more flexible during the entire game. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark8 Posted September 23, 2021 Share Posted September 23, 2021 Hello guys I'm writing some lists but idk which one is good or just a dream, I need some help to chose which one is the best: 1'List: HoS Cartalos 300p Lord relictor 145 Fulminators x4 460p Fulminators x2 230p Fulminators x2 230p Liberators 115p Vindictors x10 260p Vindictors x10 260p 2000/2000 2'List Lord Arcanum on tarragon 285p Lord Relictor 145p Judicators x12 480p Vindictors x10 260p Vindictors x10 260p Retributors x10 470p Comet 100p 2000/2000 3'List Lord Celestant on Stardrake 500p Lord relictor 145p Liberators x10 230p Liberators x10 230p Vindictors x10 260p Judicators x10 400p Retributors 235p 2000/2000 thx for all your help Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lengthster Posted September 23, 2021 Share Posted September 23, 2021 3 hours ago, Matto3 said: Hello, till now i was mainly reading great posts from you. I just want to ask why I am seeing +1 save stacking (castelant, all out defence, mystic shield..), isnt +1 gap in this edition ? I want to paint some list and play with it for a while, so i did this list...I am not conviced for stormhost and I would apreciate some ideas with listbuilding. I was thinking droping Vindictors for some underworld bands and change retributors for protectors ??, and use spare point for some more magic, but i dont want to lose 2 units. Thx for reading ... (it scions of the storms) Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals - Stormhost: Hammers of Sigmar - Grand Strategy: - Triumphs: Lord-Relictor (145) - General - Command Trait: High Priest - Artefact: Arcane Tome (Universal Artefact) - Spell: Celestial Blades - Prayer: TranslocationYndrasta, The Celestial Spear (320)5 x Vindictors (130)5 x Vindictors (130)10 x Judicators with Skybolt Bows (400) - Reinforced x 13 x Annihilators (200)3 x Annihilators (200)5 x Retributors (235)5 x Retributors (235)Holy Command: Thunderbolt VolleyTotal: 1995 / 2000Reinforced Units: 1 / 4Allies: 0 / 400Wounds: 102Drops: 9 If you're going to run that many units of paladins you might want to go Knights Excelsior for your stormhost. Yndrasta has some nice synergy with 2 squads of retributors to revive, and with MSU you'll get some use out of the stormhost ability. But that isn't important. Retributors are strong without too much support, albeit a bit slow. If you want to be stronger in activation wars, buff efficency and translocation efficiency, 10 protectors might be the better choice. Retributors are probably more versatile for listbuilding, the block of protectors assumes other buffs/translocation etc If going Knights Excelsior or 10 protectors I would suggest going for a warlord battalion to get an extra holy command for Unleash Thy Hatred. I would probably also put your key melee units into a hunters of the heartland battalion to ensure that Unleash can't be countered. With the paladins fulfilling your battleline you could drop a unit of vindictors for a knight incantor, gets you your spellcasting and the auto-unbind scroll which is really good. I'm guessing you have all the stuff from dominion, if you don't have a Knight-Incantor, just use the Knight Arcanum, nobody even knows the difference. Can then use a defensive artifact on the lord relictor One problem however is no lord-imperatant, that makes annihilators much less effective. If you're willing you could swap Yndrasta out for some smaller support heroes Imperatant + Incantor is 300 pts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hannibal Posted September 23, 2021 Share Posted September 23, 2021 Hello Guys, I couldn´t resist and started with Stormcasts and that´s the models I own right now: Knight Judicator 205 Stormstrike Chariot 165 2 Fulminators 230 5 Judicators with Skybolt Bows 200 ---------- Comes to 800. Now I wonder what do I need to round out that force. We regularly play 1000 to 1250 points. What is your advice for additional models? I couldnßt get my hands on a Battletome right now, therefore I can´t search for synergies or units that fit my collection. Thanks in advance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archibald Posted September 23, 2021 Share Posted September 23, 2021 (edited) Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals- Stormhost: Hallowed Knights- Mortal Realm: Ghur- Grand Strategy: Hold the Line- Triumphs: LeadersGardus Steel Soul (160)*Lord-Relictor (145)*- General- Command Trait: Staunch Defender - Artefact: Mirrorshield - Prayer: TranslocationCelestant-Prime (325)*Battleline15 x Judicators with Boltstorm Crossbows (570)**- Reinforced x 210 x Liberators (230)**- Heavens-wrought Weapon and Shield- 2x Grandhammers- Reinforced x 15 x Liberators (115)*- Heavens-wrought Weapon and Shield- 1x GrandhammersUnits4 x Dracothian Guard Concussors (440)**- Reinforced x 1Core Battalions*Warlord**Hunters of the HeartlandsAdditional EnhancementsHoly Command: Thunderbolt VolleyHoly Command: Call for AidTotal: 1985 / 2000Reinforced Units: 4 / 4Allies: 0 / 400Wounds: 104Drops: 7 I will be playing this list tomorrow against a tree friend friend. Really looking forward to test the Gardus castle and the 15 Xbow Judicators (finally get to test them out after all of the praising @Juicydid😄). Edited September 23, 2021 by Archibald 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matto3 Posted September 23, 2021 Share Posted September 23, 2021 Thx a lot for replies, it helped a lot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanteAlighieri Posted September 23, 2021 Share Posted September 23, 2021 (edited) Ordered some Paladins for a list I am building. Gonna build them as Protectors and run them as a block of 10. I was wondering if the starsoul maces are worth it or if I should just build all 10 with the glaives? At a glance it appears the consistency from all glaives is desirable, but does Unleash Thy Hatred giving +1 attacks push the Starsoul maces back into "worth it" territory? Or are they already worth it and I am reading into it wrong? Edited September 23, 2021 by DanteAlighieri Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phasteon Posted September 23, 2021 Share Posted September 23, 2021 Just now, DanteAlighieri said: Ordered some Paladins for a list I am building, wondering if the starsoul maces are worth it or if I should just build all 10 with the glaives? At a glance it appears the consistency from all glaives is desirable, but does Unleash Thy Hatred giving +1 attacks push the Starsoul maces back into "worth it" territory? Or are they already worth it and I am reading into it wrong? I‘d go for 4 Starsoul Maces in a unit of Protectors, just for flexibility reasons. 51 Attacks (if all 10 get to strike) or 31 Attacks with almost guaranteed 4D3 MWs is not that much of a difference against Hordes for example, but against something like Kragnos with All out Defense you will need those Starsouls Maces with Unleash thy Hatred to get him down. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanteAlighieri Posted September 23, 2021 Share Posted September 23, 2021 2 minutes ago, Phasteon said: I‘d go for 4 Starsoul Maces in a unit of Protectors, just for flexibility reasons. 51 Attacks (if all 10 get to strike) or 31 Attacks with almost guaranteed 4D3 MWs is not that much of a difference against Hordes for example, but against something like Kragnos with All out Defense you will need those Starsouls Maces with Unleash thy Hatred to get him down. Gotcha that makes sense. How about the order of pulling models as they die? I'm assuming I should pull 1 of the 6 glaives first to maintain the+1 to save ability, but after that what should I do? Should I alternate pulling starting with maces then glaives? Is the MW output or +1 to save more vital? Or is it more of a situational thing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drofnum Posted September 23, 2021 Share Posted September 23, 2021 16 minutes ago, DanteAlighieri said: Ordered some Paladins for a list I am building. Gonna build them as Protectors and run them as a block of 10. I was wondering if the starsoul maces are worth it or if I should just build all 10 with the glaives? At a glance it appears the consistency from all glaives is desirable, but does Unleash Thy Hatred giving +1 attacks push the Starsoul maces back into "worth it" territory? Or are they already worth it and I am reading into it wrong? For Protectors you want the starsoul maces, if you were going Retributors they're better off without them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turragor Posted September 23, 2021 Share Posted September 23, 2021 6 hours ago, Mark8 said: Lord Arcanum on tarragon 285p I assume this is an autocorrect typo (or I mean Tauralon is a dumb word) but it made me giggle: PS I like your 1st and 3rd list. I'd like your 2nd more if 10 rets was 2x5 (their short reach is a bit of a pain). 9 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phasteon Posted September 23, 2021 Share Posted September 23, 2021 47 minutes ago, DanteAlighieri said: Gotcha that makes sense. How about the order of pulling models as they die? I'm assuming I should pull 1 of the 6 glaives first to maintain the+1 to save ability, but after that what should I do? Should I alternate pulling starting with maces then glaives? Is the MW output or +1 to save more vital? Or is it more of a situational thing definately situational. If you need to survive you pull the maces, if you need to deal MWs you pull glaives. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aietos Posted September 23, 2021 Share Posted September 23, 2021 Hello, fellow armor-Thors! So, I hate list building and am also bad at it. I end up just grabbing whatever models and doing poorly. I was wondering if anyone here who actually LIKES making lists might suggest a decent one (2k) to me. I currently have painted and ready to go: lord celestant on stardrake lord arcanum on tauralon lord relictor lord arcanum on gryph-charger lord castellant knight incantor knight heraldor 10 liberators (sadly the old box ones with no grandhammers) 20 sequitors 10 judicators w/ bows 9 castigators 1 ballista 3 longstrikes 5 retributors 5 evocators all the stormcast spells It feels like there should be something coherent in all that, but I haven’t found it. I should have a couple chariots too, but those preorders sure aren’t coming in, are they? Anyway, thank you in advance for considering allowing me to foist my job on you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Champasaur Posted September 24, 2021 Share Posted September 24, 2021 11 hours ago, Mark8 said: Hello guys I'm writing some lists but idk which one is good or just a dream, I need some help to chose which one is the best: 1'List: HoS Cartalos 300p Lord relictor 145 Fulminators x4 460p Fulminators x2 230p Fulminators x2 230p Liberators 115p Vindictors x10 260p Vindictors x10 260p 2000/2000 2'List Lord Arcanum on tarragon 285p Lord Relictor 145p Judicators x12 480p Vindictors x10 260p Vindictors x10 260p Retributors x10 470p Comet 100p 2000/2000 3'List Lord Celestant on Stardrake 500p Lord relictor 145p Liberators x10 230p Liberators x10 230p Vindictors x10 260p Judicators x10 400p Retributors 235p 2000/2000 thx for all your help 1st List: You don’t necessarily need the Vindictors or Liberators because the Fulminators are battleline in HoS. The points could go elsewhere if you wanted. 2nd list: Don’t run Retributors in a group of 10. Their 1” range will prevent you from getting them all in to combat max Either run two groups of 5 retributors or 1 group of ten protectors. 3rd list: Honestly I’d skip the Retributors and bring the judicators up to x15. Then with the spare points upgrade one of the x10 Liberators up to Vindictors Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juicy Posted September 24, 2021 Share Posted September 24, 2021 11 hours ago, Archibald said: Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals- Stormhost: Hallowed Knights- Mortal Realm: Ghur- Grand Strategy: Hold the Line- Triumphs: LeadersGardus Steel Soul (160)*Lord-Relictor (145)*- General- Command Trait: Staunch Defender - Artefact: Mirrorshield - Prayer: TranslocationCelestant-Prime (325)*Battleline15 x Judicators with Boltstorm Crossbows (570)**- Reinforced x 210 x Liberators (230)**- Heavens-wrought Weapon and Shield- 2x Grandhammers- Reinforced x 15 x Liberators (115)*- Heavens-wrought Weapon and Shield- 1x GrandhammersUnits4 x Dracothian Guard Concussors (440)**- Reinforced x 1Core Battalions*Warlord**Hunters of the HeartlandsAdditional EnhancementsHoly Command: Thunderbolt VolleyHoly Command: Call for AidTotal: 1985 / 2000Reinforced Units: 4 / 4Allies: 0 / 400Wounds: 104Drops: 7 I will be playing this list tomorrow against a tree friend friend. Really looking forward to test the Gardus castle and the 15 Xbow Judicators (finally get to test them out after all of the praising @Juicydid😄). Hahahaha, let me know how it went! and dont forget to PRIME that big xbow. I went hardcore into sylvaneth yesterday. He had a hard time vs the xbow juds. Even tho his warsong killed a lot of Sce. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maturin Posted September 24, 2021 Share Posted September 24, 2021 (edited) 12 hours ago, Hannibal said: Hello Guys, I couldn´t resist and started with Stormcasts and that´s the models I own right now You should have ran, you fool! Glandoulf of The Pillow Fists of Sigmar Edited September 24, 2021 by Maturin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malakithe Posted September 24, 2021 Share Posted September 24, 2021 I like how this looks. Not sure about effectiveness but it will look cool. All the drake things are spitting some form of MW. Currently my thought was Hammers but I could probably move them to something else. Make the Draconis the General to give me 3 battleline still so im still good no matter what. Command Entourage: Knight-Draconis, Amulet Lord-Relictor, General, High Priest, Translocation Knight-Incantor, Chain Lightning Redemption Brotherhood: Fulminators x2 Fulminators x2 Fulminators x2 Fulminators x2 Hunters of the Heartlands: Stormdrake Guard x2 Vindictors x5 Vindictors x5 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juicy Posted September 24, 2021 Share Posted September 24, 2021 55 minutes ago, Malakithe said: I like how this looks. Not sure about effectiveness but it will look cool. All the drake things are spitting some form of MW. Currently my thought was Hammers but I could probably move them to something else. Make the Draconis the General to give me 3 battleline still so im still good no matter what. Command Entourage: Knight-Draconis, Amulet Lord-Relictor, General, High Priest, Translocation Knight-Incantor, Chain Lightning Redemption Brotherhood: Fulminators x2 Fulminators x2 Fulminators x2 Fulminators x2 Hunters of the Heartlands: Stormdrake Guard x2 Vindictors x5 Vindictors x5 I think this list will do great vs most matchups 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malakithe Posted September 24, 2021 Share Posted September 24, 2021 8 minutes ago, Juicy said: I think this list will do great vs most matchups Is staying as Hammers good or should I swap to another host? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juicy Posted September 24, 2021 Share Posted September 24, 2021 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Malakithe said: Is staying as Hammers good or should I swap to another host? giving fulms battleline is both good and bad.. Its easier acces for your opponent on scoring an extra vp when they have to kill a battleline, But on the other hand. you could totaly drop the 2x5 vindictors as they wont participate a lot, could also free up 30 points to switch them to liberators and go for that triump. Edit:i used to LOVE celestial vindicators on fulminators but now im not so sure. I think celestialvindicators have something for them to boost that damage output of the fulminators still. Hammers gives you a bit of objective play. Im not sure our 2 fulminators doing a lot of overkill damage and really need that extra hit. Edited September 24, 2021 by Juicy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malakithe Posted September 24, 2021 Share Posted September 24, 2021 2 hours ago, Juicy said: giving fulms battleline is both good and bad.. Its easier acces for your opponent on scoring an extra vp when they have to kill a battleline, But on the other hand. you could totaly drop the 2x5 vindictors as they wont participate a lot, could also free up 30 points to switch them to liberators and go for that triump. Edit:i used to LOVE celestial vindicators on fulminators but now im not so sure. I think celestialvindicators have something for them to boost that damage output of the fulminators still. Hammers gives you a bit of objective play. Im not sure our 2 fulminators doing a lot of overkill damage and really need that extra hit. Yeah lots of battleline could be bad. But I figured lists like mine and the heavy drake lists still need units to hang back and hold stuff, hence the Vindictors. If i change from Hammers to something else I could Make the Knight the General and that would still give me 3 battline in the form of the 2x Vindictors plus the drakes. I need the book cuz I dont remember what all the hosts do Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
readercolin Posted September 24, 2021 Share Posted September 24, 2021 5 hours ago, Malakithe said: I like how this looks. Not sure about effectiveness but it will look cool. All the drake things are spitting some form of MW. Currently my thought was Hammers but I could probably move them to something else. Make the Draconis the General to give me 3 battleline still so im still good no matter what. Command Entourage: Knight-Draconis, Amulet Lord-Relictor, General, High Priest, Translocation Knight-Incantor, Chain Lightning Redemption Brotherhood: Fulminators x2 Fulminators x2 Fulminators x2 Fulminators x2 Hunters of the Heartlands: Stormdrake Guard x2 Vindictors x5 Vindictors x5 So, I like Fulminators as much as the next guy, but I really don't like spamming 4 different 2 man squads of them. Why? Power application. If you have a single squad of 2, you can expect it to put out ~19 damage on the charge before saves (12 to a 3+). This is enough to clear a screen or a small elite unit, but anything bigger is going to brickwall them, and you have no way to retreat and charge, which means the following turn you are going to be doing only 10 damage before saves (~7 to a 3+). Basically, a bigger unit can more effectively punch through something harder with less chance of being bogged down. Second, fight order. Combat is done in I go you go order, and if you charge with 2 units of fulminators, you are going to go with one unit, and then your opponent gets to go before you can use your second unit. This leaves you with a pretty good chance of getting that unit either killed, or losing a model before it can swing and do any damage. However, if you take and put them in 2 blocks of 4, now you can apply all the damage of your charge without having to worry about combat order because you just have that one unit in. Third, buff application. You are using the Relictor Translocation trick, which is a nice trick, but doing it to a single squad of 2 fulminators is a bit underwhelming. A squad of 4 on the other hand is a threat that can take down Archaeon or a Megagargant. In addition, a squad of 4 carries buffs better, whether that is Celestial Blades, Mystic Shield, All Out Attack or All Out Defense. All of those buffs will only affect a single unit, and can only be used once per turn or once per phase, and putting them on a squad of 4 is more impactful than putting them on a squad of 2. Basically, I'm saying that I think your list would be improved by running 2 squads of 4 instead of 4 squads of 2. 6 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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