Stormcast Eternals 3.0 - There is no "a" in Vindictors

[jeanfluflu]

Hey guys i'm building a list based on the sacrosanct miniatures that i have and love.

As you might expect, lots of sorcerers and magic in this list but there's something that bothered me in the building of this list, in the core book when discussing magic phase the sentence read as following:

"19.1 you cannot attempt to cast the same spell more than once, even with another sorcerer"

Why bother and take multiple units of evocators then, they share the same spell so only one of these units would be able to even try to attempt to buff itself or a nearby sacrosanct.
I'm really sad as it really makes the other unit useless, we pay the price for sorcerer units (pretty expensively i would say) and the fact that these dudes cannot even launch anything else suddenly feels like a big nerf...

Let me know what you think about that, i hope i'm wrong here so let me know what you think about this.

[Marcvs]

5 minutes ago, jeanfluflu said:

Hey guys i'm building a list based on the sacrosanct miniatures that i have and love.

As you might expect, lots of sorcerers and magic in this list but there's something that bothered me in the building of this list, in the core book when discussing magic phase the sentence read as following:

"19.1 you cannot attempt to cast the same spell more than once, even with another sorcerer"

Why bother and take multiple units of evocators then, they share the same spell so only one of these units would be able to even try to attempt to buff itself or a nearby sacrosanct.
I'm really sad as it really makes the other unit useless, we pay the price for sorcerer units (pretty expensively i would say) and the fact that these dudes cannot even launch anything else suddenly feels like a big nerf...

Let me know what you think about that, i hope i'm wrong here so let me know what you think about this.

Let's not add insult to injury 😅

Edited September 21, 2021 by Marcvs

[jeanfluflu]

1 minute ago, Marcvs said:

Let's not add insult to injury 😅

good lord thanks a lot!!!

 

i haven't the book yet so all these little thing get past me as i'm theory crafting lists and stuff.
Thanks a lot my friend!

[Marcvs]

3 minutes ago, jeanfluflu said:

good lord thanks a lot!!!

 

i haven't the book yet so all these little thing get past me as i'm theory crafting lists and stuff.
Thanks a lot my friend!

no problem!

for warscrolls you can check the new app, it has all of them -there's still mistakes here and there so it's good to cross check with the book once you have it, but it's in general pretty good for SCE warscrolls

[jeanfluflu]

1 minute ago, Marcvs said:

no problem!

for warscrolls you can check the new app, it has all of them -there's still mistakes here and there so it's good to cross check with the book once you have it, but it's in general pretty good for SCE warscrolls

thanks, but unfortunately i'm an old man with a phone that looks more like a relic than anything else :D.
I mostly use wahapedia when in doubt since it seems decently updated when new content get pushed into the game but that's it .

[Beliman]

41 minutes ago, LordPrometheus said:

A tool we desperately need, imo

I'm curious about that. Anyone played any game abusing that mechanic with top units? How did it go?

If other battletomes become stronger, I think that transclote is completely intended. But it's understandable that some players feels a bit afraid after viewing some battlereports.

[Juicy]

8 minutes ago, Beliman said:

I'm curious about that. Anyone played any game abusing that mechanic with top units? How did it go?

If other battletomes become stronger, I think that transclote is completely intended. But it's understandable that some players feels a bit afraid after viewing some battlereports.

im playing a lot 1/2 times a week. Sometimes translocate feels strong but ive played enough smart players who got lots of cheap screens in the way of an alpha strike or use redeploy wisely. Playing the same player twice makes them better against the translocation prayer. They deploy better or play better into terrain/screens/redeploy. Havent had a game people complained about it tho. But im playing 99% of the time against high comp. I even failed a 2+reroll translocate today against soulblight=rip. 

I feel like translocate gives us more list varity (<- not sure about spelling). Slow units like paladins can run right into the enemy turn one. Also makes your opponent want to snipe your priest more. ( mirrorshield <3) 

Every army got there tools. 
right new we can 
-shoot twice with juds/raptors
-translocate oldhammerpaladins
-scions annihilators
-alphastrike dragons/fulminators with run and charge (dont even need a prayer to do this)
-mass redeemers for objective play.

[jeanfluflu]

9 minutes ago, Beliman said:

I'm curious about that. Anyone played any game abusing that mechanic with top units? How did it go?

If other battletomes become stronger, I think that transclote is completely intended. But it's understandable that some players feels a bit afraid after viewing some battlereports.

haven't tried the 10 protectors yet (i still want to keep my friends) but for what i've tried it is super useful in many situations and cover a very large specter of possibilities.

TP a unit close to a guarded objective and steal it from them later in the movement phase, TP a caster away from dispel range (did it to recast the comet a second time) or even save him by sending him on the other side of the board, tp the relictor itself in a more useful spot...etc.

It's a very appreciated toolkit, with all the units we have at our disposal to clean screens it's even better so you can surgically target something important in your opponent army and send him one of your buffed up beat stick unit.

 

keep in mind that i don't play often and in mid/low competitive environment

[jeanfluflu]

9 minutes ago, Beliman said:

I'm curious about that. Anyone played any game abusing that mechanic with top units? How did it go?

If other battletomes become stronger, I think that transclote is completely intended. But it's understandable that some players feels a bit afraid after viewing some battlereports.

haven't tried the 10 protectors yet (i still want to keep my friends) but for what i've tried it is super useful in many situations and cover a very large specter of possibilities.

TP a unit close to a guarded objective and steal it from them later in the movement phase, TP a caster away from dispel range (did it to recast the comet a second time) or even save him by sending him on the other side of the board, tp the relictor itself in a more useful spot...etc.

It's a very appreciated toolkit, with all the units we have at our disposal to clean screens it's even better so you can surgically target something important in your opponent army and send him one of your buffed up beat stick unit.

 

keep in mind that i don't play often and in mid/low competitive environment

 

7 minutes ago, Juicy said:

im playing a lot 1/2 times a week. Sometimes translocate feels strong but ive played enough smart players who got lots of cheap screens in the way of an alpha strike or use redeploy wisely. Playing the same player twice makes them better against the translocation prayer. They deploy better or play better into terrain/screens/redeploy. Havent had a game people complained about it tho. But im playing 99% of the time against high comp. I even failed a 2+reroll translocate today against soulblight=rip. 

I feel like translocate gives us more list varity (<- not sure about spelling). Slow units like paladins can run right into the enemy turn one. Also makes your opponent want to snipe your priest more. ( mirrorshield <3) 

Every army got there tools. 
right new we can 
-shoot twice with juds/raptors
-translocate oldhammerpaladins
-scions annihilators
-alphastrike dragons/fulminators with run and charge (dont even need a prayer to do this)
-mass redeemers for objective play.

how does it goes against soulblight, since they can cover the entire board with miniatures it can certainly mitigate the effect of this. Was it as good as it is on other armies?

[macrake]

Havent played with the 3.0 tome yet, but have had a few games against good opponents in last battletome and yes it is strong. Used it with 10 evos.

It's a pretty simple but strong play. Get a big hammer unit in and wreck stuff. Shoot their screen first so you can get to the really tasty stuff.

There's plenty of things that can stop it though. Horror screens. Daemon prince halving charges. Belakor. Scary unleash hell units like 2x20 sentinels.

edit: "stop it" is probably the wrong term. More like "lessen the impact/chance of success".

Edited September 21, 2021 by macrake

[Colgado]

Two questions:

1. If you're going annihilator heavy for the mortals. How many squads? Shields/hammers? My first thought is x5 units but then you almost need to go shields to save points. What else would you bring to round out the list?

2. With the Stormdrakes, I know the numbers have been crunched on lance vs sword, but in terms of actual game play which seems better? With no way to retreat and charge, are lances good enough even with the higher damage? Anyone tried these out in an actual game to compare?

[macrake]

35 minutes ago, Colgado said:

Two questions:

1. If you're going annihilator heavy for the mortals. How many squads? Shields/hammers? My first thought is x5 units but then you almost need to go shields to save points. What else would you bring to round out the list?

2. With the Stormdrakes, I know the numbers have been crunched on lance vs sword, but in terms of actual game play which seems better? With no way to retreat and charge, are lances good enough even with the higher damage? Anyone tried these out in an actual game to compare?

1. Haven't considered annihilator spam much. It might be fun, but I cant see it going more than 3-2. 6x raptors, lord relictor, imperatant and some bodies probably.

2. If the drakes charge and then stay in combat for an additional turn, lances and swords are equal, but the lances will have better alpha, meaning less counterpunch from opponent. If they stay in combat for longer than two turns, swords become better.

I don't think they'll be stuck in combat for 3+ turns much. You will often be able to shoot anything still alive and in combat with them, allowing them to charge again. Or the lord relictor will catch up and teleport them.

I favor lances, but obviously just an educated guess though. Fingers crossed they give us the models soon so we can get to the table.

[Champasaur]

So I’m doing the finishing touches of my list and I was wondering which is better without context for the rest of the army:

1 x5 Liberators and 1 x10 Retributors
or
1 x5 Vindictors and 1 x10 Protectors

[Colgado]

7 minutes ago, macrake said:

1. Haven't considered annihilator spam much. It might be fun, but I cant see it going more than 3-2. 6x raptors, lord relictor, imperatant and some bodies probably.

Good point on it taking 2+ turns of combat to even out for the swords. Magnets it is, but lances to start I guess.

 

I could have sworn an annihilator spam list won a tournament before the new book. I found this BoLS article and list but can't speak to other details without more digging. It would still work now but I wonder if there are better tweaks to be made.

BoLS

The list:

Yndrasta the Celestial Spear

Lord-Arcanum Celestial Staves: Mindlock Staff

Lord Imperatant General Command Trait: Staunch Defender Artefact: Amulet of Destiny

5 x Vindicators

5 x Vindicators

5 x Vindicators

3 x Annihilators

3 x Annihilators

3 x Annihilators

3 x Annihilators

3 x Annihilators

[readercolin]

2 hours ago, Colgado said:

2. With the Stormdrakes, I know the numbers have been crunched on lance vs sword, but in terms of actual game play which seems better? With no way to retreat and charge, are lances good enough even with the higher damage? Anyone tried these out in an actual game to compare?

It mostly depends upon what you expect to see in your games.  If your opponents are primarily going to be playing with a ton of MSU stuff, then you can get away with lances even on 2 man squads.  If you are expecting to face more meaty opposition, then you probably want swords for any 2 man units.

For 4 man squads, lances become a lot more appealing.  A 4 man squad of lances will go through a 20 wound unit with a 4+ save, which makes them somewhat reliable.  They have the maneuverability to get into position and do what they want to do as well, so you don't need to worry too much about getting countercharged when you are trying to get into position.

All this being said, if you are thinking about how you want to model them, I would advise looking into magnetization.  Stormcast tend to be kind of chonky, which means that as long as the difference between the models is just a changed arm, and their arm is likely to be thick enough to hide a magnet.  Additionally, the difference between a stormdrake and the Knight-Draconis is likely to be the entire upper torso section, which means that you can a magnet and be able to have a model that can either be a Stormdrake or a Knight-Draconis.

Edited September 21, 2021 by readercolin

[jeanfluflu]

1 hour ago, Champasaur said:

So I’m doing the finishing touches of my list and I was wondering which is better without context for the rest of the army:

1 x5 Liberators and 1 x10 Retributors
or
1 x5 Vindictors and 1 x10 Protectors

vindictors and protectors without hesitation.
retributors don't work well in squad of 10 due to the 1" reach of their weapons, also protectors have a native +1 to save with them at all time which is gold on top of their 3+ save.

A squad of 10 protectors is a real blender, you can stack bonuses on them and go say hello to enemy army with lots of rend 2 attacks and MW from the starsoul maces.

[Champasaur]

25 minutes ago, jeanfluflu said:

vindictors and protectors without hesitation.

So follow up question to that, would it be better to take 2 x5 Retributors or 1 x10 Protectors? (I imagine it will still be the Protectors)

Edited September 21, 2021 by Champasaur

[Champasaur]

Another question for the people. If I am running 6x Longstrikes and 10x Protectors, is it better to get a one drop army and try for the double turn or is it better to get an extra enhancement and go for both Thunderous Volley and Unleash Thy Hatred?

[jeanfluflu]

2 minutes ago, Champasaur said:

So follow up question to that, would it be better to take 2 x5 Retributors or 1 x10 Protectors?

for more in depth answers to that question you can take a look at what @PJetski discussed on his podcast here:

there's many good points discussed but general is there's no "better" thing in the void!

2x5 retributors will make your enemy sweat cause that type of small squads can TP easily and destroy a unit (they hit harder than the protectors and will not recquire a lot of baby sitting to be efficient).
they can go on solo missions and dig holes on tanky units, destroy a fragile monster/elite unite...etc

10 man protector squad have another utility, since they are more numerous they benefit better from stacking buffs and can be used to challenge even bigger threats when you combine everything on them (unleash thy hatred, +1 to hit and wound, maybe a prayer to get explosive 6's to hit...etc).
Ideally you want to power them up and send them at the right time on a key target to make it explode and stay in the neighborhood for a while destroying what might challenge them (and with a 2+ save and 30wounds not many people will want to come closer unless they have the tools to deal with you).

[Neverchosen]

So I asked a little earlier but I am still looking for some guidance as I have 300 points to spend and I am trying to decide between adding some ranged attacks, dragon support or maybe going in on a big hero. Any thoughts or feelings on the direction I should go?

I could also use this as an opportunity to add some Paladins or Vanguard and lean into a themed Stormhost list?

I could also include some Cities allies with those points but I feel like that will lead to me having to readjust when the Cities book releases. 

I am leaning towards adding a pair of Celestar Ballista or Bastian Carthalos... but I did create a thread entirely dedicated to Dragon Hype... 😰

Edited September 22, 2021 by Neverchosen

[PJetski]

Dracoth stonks rising

[Champasaur]

1 hour ago, Neverchosen said:

 Any thoughts or feelings on the direction I should go?
 

I mean double dragon or knight-draconis will always be S tier as long as their points remain the same. I personally am a fan of the double celestar ballistas however. Any of the paladins will probably leave you with too many points to spend. Even annihilators with hammers is 240 which would leave you with 60 points left over

[Champasaur]

Spoiler

List Name: Stormcast Protect Raptor

Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals -

Stormhost: Celestial Vindicators (Stormkeep) -

Grand Strategy: Hold the Line -

Triumphs: Inspired

LEADERS

Knight-Judicator with Gryph-Hounds (205) - General - Command Trait: Envoy of the Heavens

Lord-Relictor (145) - Artefact: Mirrorshield - Prayer: Translocation

UNITS

10 x Vindictors (260)

10 x Vindictors (260)

5 x Vigilors (195)

6 x Vanguard-Raptors with Longstrike Crossbows (480)

10 x Protectors (450) - 4 x Starsoul Maces

CORE BATTALIONS *Battle Regiment

ADDITIONAL ENHANCEMENTS Holy Command: Unleash Thy Hatred

TOTAL: 1995/2000 

Here's my list for my casual play with friends. Will probably change it up if it dominates too hard, although I will be fighting Teclis and 20 wardens so I doubt it.

I wanted to take some of the top tier units but also throw in the Vigilors and Knight-Judicator in for fun. My main downsides of the list? No spellcasters (so no unbinds) and a lack of heroes. I went with the KJudicator as a general because I needed another battleline unit but still needed to fit into a Battle Regiment, hence the reason why I didn't downgrade the Vindictors into 2 x5 units. 

My main question here is, should I go with Unleash Thy Hatred or Thunderbolt Volley? If I go with Unleash I certainly want to combo it with Celestial Vindicators. If I go Thunderbolt volley I might go Celestial Warbringers to get the re-roll on the hero phase, shooting phase, and combat phase. And since the Raptors have fewer attacks, the 1 re-roll will be more valuable on them.

[jeanfluflu]

3 minutes ago, Champasaur said:

  Hide contents

List Name: Stormcast Protect Raptor

Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals -

Stormhost: Celestial Vindicators (Stormkeep) -

Grand Strategy: Hold the Line -

Triumphs: Inspired

LEADERS

Knight-Judicator with Gryph-Hounds (205) - General - Command Trait: Envoy of the Heavens

Lord-Relictor (145) - Artefact: Mirrorshield - Prayer: Translocation

UNITS

10 x Vindictors (260)

10 x Vindictors (260)

5 x Vigilors (195)

6 x Vanguard-Raptors with Longstrike Crossbows (480)

10 x Protectors (450) - 4 x Starsoul Maces

CORE BATTALIONS *Battle Regiment

ADDITIONAL ENHANCEMENTS Holy Command: Unleash Thy Hatred

TOTAL: 1995/2000 

Here's my list for my casual play with friends. Will probably change it up if it dominates too hard, although I will be fighting Teclis and 20 wardens so I doubt it.

I wanted to take some of the top tier units but also throw in the Vigilors and Knight-Judicator in for fun. My main downsides of the list? No spellcasters (so no unbinds) and a lack of heroes. I went with the KJudicator as a general because I needed another battleline unit but still needed to fit into a Battle Regiment, hence the reason why I didn't downgrade the Vindictors into 2 x5 units. 

My main question here is, should I go with Unleash Thy Hatred or Thunderbolt Volley? If I go with Unleash I certainly want to combo it with Celestial Vindicators. If I go Thunderbolt volley I might go Celestial Warbringers to get the re-roll on the hero phase, shooting phase, and combat phase. And since the Raptors have fewer attacks, the 1 re-roll will be more valuable on them.

I think the biggest concern here isn't the choice between "unleash thy hatred" or "thunderbolt volley" but rather "stormkeep" or "scion of the storm".

For a shooting build like yours, i'd definitely pick scion, as long as your units are not on the table they can't be targeted.

You speak about Teclis and  wardens, well it's rather easy for a lumineth build to have the entire army fit the battle regiment batallion as well, so if you're both in one drop it's just a matter of dice roll at the beggining of deployment to know which one of you will win.
If you keep stormkeep and lose that initiative, well the wardens/teclis will melt your really fragile raptors and you'll have to deal with some heavy lifting to come back into the game after that cause you'll lose 1/4 of your army pts and your biggest dps unit.

I'm not sure about celestial vindicators as well, you can pick knight excelsiors and suddenly your protectors are battleline and can benefit once per turn from the +1 to hit and +1 to wound.
You can also remove the vigilors and have 200 pts for something else, maybe an incantor to get that precious scroll (no umbral spell portal for you teclis) and some aetherwings to fill the gap (and alternatively give a +1 to hit to your raptors as well) but it's my way to see the game, maybe you don't want to do things like this.
 

[Champasaur]

1 hour ago, jeanfluflu said:

*snip*
 

Again, this isn't tournament play. My opponent who is bringing lumineth is only bringing 20 sentinels, so odds are they won't be able to one-shot the raptors. Although I still appreciate the input. 

I'm just more focused on bringing a fun army rather than an army that will have the best chance of winning. That train of thought is why I brought KJudicator and Vigilors.. because they're cool! Sure not everything in my army is top tier, but I still brought the tools to potentially carry the day.

Edit* Also the reason I didn't take Excelsiors is because 10x Protectors is probably not going to be outnumbered by enemy units, and if they are then they probably aren't what I want to be fighting. (Unless they are sentinels and in that case they are dead without the buff)

Edited September 22, 2021 by Champasaur