Stormcast Eternals 3.0 - There is no "a" in Vindictors

[RedemptionUK]

1 hour ago, JackStreicher said:

The Tauralon  barely changed.

the Stardrake is still pillowfisted (at least 2 dmg on D6 tail attacks)

Tauralon is a 1 cast wizard now.

[Scurvydog]

Thinking of something like this list after seeing all of the rules:

Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals
- Stormhost: Hammers of Sigmar
- Grand Strategy: Beast Master
- Holy Command: Steadfast March

Leaders
Lord-Celestant on Stardrake (500)
- General
- Celestine Hammer
- Command Trait: Master of the Celestial Menagerie
- Artefact: Drakescale Armour
- Mount Trait: Light of the Young Star
Krondys (600)
- Spell: Starfall

Battleline

Units
2 x Concussors (220)
2 x Concussors (220)
2 x Stormdrake Guard (285)
1 x Stormstrike Chariot (165)

Total: 1990 / 2000
Reinforced Units: 0 / 4
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 90

 

Alternative if you just want to buy a lot of dragons!

Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals
- Stormhost: Hammers of Sigmar
- Grand Strategy: Beast Master
- Holy Command: Steadfast March

Leaders
Knight Draconis(255)
- General
- Command Trait: Master of the Celestial Menagerie
- Artefact: Drakescale Armour
- Mount Trait: Celestial Instincts
Krondys (600)
- Spell: Starfall

Battleline

Units
2 x Stormdrake Guard (285)
2 x Stormdrake Guard (285)
2 x Stormdrake Guard (285)
2 x Stormdrake Guard (285)

Total: 1995 / 2000
Reinforced Units: 0 / 4
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 101

 

The command trait Master of the Celestial Menagerie is a -1 to wound against all your monsters while the general is alive, that is crazy good! Of course list 2 double down on this with only monsters.

This is a list of monsters where everyone has 3+ saves and is at -1 to be wounded, the tankyness is real. There is actually also a lot of ranged firepower, with all those dragon breaths on both lists.

[Nizrah]

22 minutes ago, cadmachine said:

Have been ULTRA hype for this for months and the book is over all a major let down.
Vindictors are just so much better then all other battleline that its really just impossible to justify anything else especially when you consider cost.

Knight Relictor is possibly the worst warscroll I've ever seen, 3 attacks 3s and 3s 1 rend 1 damage.
He gives a 4+ shrug to units near him against prayers and he's 140 points.
Thats literally it.

Most oldcast didnt get touched if they did it was a nerf, all mounts lost mount damage on 6s, Intolerable Damage etc
Judicators are better then they were but are now 200 points so priced out of being competitive.
Castigators are actually usable but not great, just D3 shots as opposed to 1 for 105.

All the units that were ignored forever are the same, Taurolon, Celestants and Libs are not worth taking over other options.

Artefacts and Traits were gutted, Stormhosts are now ok but huge nerfs to Anvils.
The dragon characters are ok but I probably wouldnt trade them for Carthalos and Yndrasta for one of them.

I am really disappointed.

You are isane LOL. 
Most of the old things were touched and lifted into stright S teritory, looking at you relictor, paladins etc.
Judicators are insane with their dmg output. They are literally DoK stalkers but withouy doubletap (good thing). 
There is huge amout of battleline options and buff to everything, hits, wounds, svs, attacks and debbufs. 
Liberators are still dirty cheap for what they can do now like 10 of them can counts for 30 models on obj lol. 
Palladors can kill things now with d3 on axes. 
Artefacs are amazing. Take amulet for ward or mirror shield to just say ****** you to enemy missle units. 
Magic dragon is superb. Prime got ward finally. Bastian is amazing. Vandus maybe finally see table. Even ducking Gardus is usefull now with ward bubble. Relictor with +1 to prayers????????? 

This book is amazing. 

[xking]

1 minute ago, Nizrah said:

You are isane LOL. 
Most of the old things were touched and lifted into stright S teritory, looking at you relictor, paladins etc.
Judicators are insane with their dmg output. They are literally DoK stalkers but withouy doubletap (good thing). 
There is huge amout of battleline options and buff to everything, hits, wounds, svs, attacks and debbufs. 
Liberators are still dirty cheap for what they can do now like 10 of them can counts for 30 models on obj lol. 
Palladors can kill things now with d3 on axes. 
Artefacs are amazing. Take amulet for ward or mirror shield to just say ****** you to enemy missle units. 
Magic dragon is superb. Prime got ward finally. Bastian is amazing. Vandus maybe finally see table. Even ducking Gardus is usefull now with ward bubble. Relictor with +1 to prayers????????? 

This book is amazing. 

How are the Lord-Relictor and Knight-Relictor different? 

[schwabbele]

I am happy, a lot to like for me. 

[Lengthster]

Most of my army is Sacrosanct stuff and they weren't improved all that much. In fact a lot of it is nerfed it seems, LA on tauralon has 1 less cast, evocators lost their unique spell lore. Ballistae are worse . Someone point me towards the good stuff

 

Edit: They're supposedly the wizard chamber but 1 cast/unbind across the board and no casting buffs. Big sad

Edited September 11, 2021 by Lengthster
forgot something

[Marcvs]

Stormkeep, Hammers, redeemer recycle, Krondys, Relictor (High Priest, Translocation, Mirrorshield), Vexillor, 4x10 vindictors, Bridge (if points allow), 1 drop battalion

[cadmachine]

1 hour ago, Nizrah said:

You are isane LOL. 
Most of the old things were touched and lifted into stright S teritory, looking at you relictor, paladins etc.
Judicators are insane with their dmg output. They are literally DoK stalkers but withouy doubletap (good thing). 
There is huge amout of battleline options and buff to everything, hits, wounds, svs, attacks and debbufs. 
Liberators are still dirty cheap for what they can do now like 10 of them can counts for 30 models on obj lol. 
Palladors can kill things now with d3 on axes. 
Artefacs are amazing. Take amulet for ward or mirror shield to just say ****** you to enemy missle units. 
Magic dragon is superb. Prime got ward finally. Bastian is amazing. Vandus maybe finally see table. Even ducking Gardus is usefull now with ward bubble. Relictor with +1 to prayers????????? 

This book is amazing. 

Sounds like you dont know alot about the army to be honest.

S territory is absolutely a joke.

Judicators are 2 shots 3s and 3s one damage with mortal potential for 200 points.
Having said that Judicators are one of the good buffs but are very very costly.

Huge numbers of options doesn't make any of them competitive, Vindictors are unarguably better then all other non-conditional battleline.
Bear in mind Liberators do not get counts as 3 or objective defence buffs unless in a Stormkeep which removed all of the traditional fun stuff that most of us built our thousands of points of Stormcast around to this point.

Palladors are ok, but also overcosted.
Artefacts are not amazing, not compared to what we had and are basically =/= for stuff thats in the GHB and rulebook.
Magic dragon is a 2 cast wizard with 3+ to cast 2 spells when not bracketed and has some mid tier damage, for 600 points.
They are definitely a highlight of the book but they are not worth 600 points.

Vandus literally didnt change other then to lose Intolerable Damage and probably the best command ability in the book now reduced to 1 Redeemer unit only.

Gardus is good the ward bubble is very nice but locked to Hallowed Knights.

If you aren't thinking at a competitive level, then yes, this is gonna be a lot of fun but for anyone who were hoping their thousands of dollars and points were going to be competitive again its a bit of a let down.

I have 40 Sequitors, 20 Liberators, 30 Paladins, Dracoths etc that will all not see use ever over Vindictors, Paladins and basically the stuff from Dominion.

Edited September 11, 2021 by cadmachine

[Nizrah]

3 minutes ago, cadmachine said:

Sounds like you dont know alot about the army to be honest.
 

Yea. Thats why Iam best stormcast player in Poland, was 8 in general Poland laederboard  in 2019-2020 season and scored 4-1 in our last Master tournament. I don't know anything about this army mate

[JackStreicher]

10 minutes ago, Nizrah said:

Yea. Thats why Iam best stormcast player in Poland, was 8 in general Poland laederboard  in 2019-2020 season and scored 4-1 in our last Master tournament. I don't know anything about this army mate

How dare you taunting him for his insult!? 🤣

 

I am a little worried the point increase might be too much since I am not sure Stormcast are elite enough to win with so few models on the board.

but let‘s wait and see

Edited September 11, 2021 by JackStreicher

[PUFNSTUF]

Does the lord ordinator still buff order warmachines? Evocators change at all?

[cadmachine]

10 minutes ago, Nizrah said:

Yea. Thats why Iam best stormcast player in Poland, was 8 in general Poland laederboard  in 2019-2020 season and scored 4-1 in our last Master tournament. I don't know anything about this army mate

Ok man lol but that makes your lack of insight all the more odd.

[Malakithe]

Fs in chat for the poor birds. You were the best of us

[xking]

17 minutes ago, Nizrah said:

Yea. Thats why Iam best stormcast player in Poland, was 8 in general Poland laederboard  in 2019-2020 season and scored 4-1 in our last Master tournament. I don't know anything about this army mate

Look at Nizrah, over here trying to flex.  

[Scurvydog]

6 minutes ago, cadmachine said:

If you aren't thinking at a competitive level, then yes, this is gonna be a lot of fun but for anyone who were hoping their thousands of dollars and points were going to be competitive again its a bit of a let down.

Think that is underselling it a bit. There are great combos in there.

If you run dragons you can have -1 to be wounded across the board from the menagierie command trait. The Dragon Guards can move and charge in the hero phase, avoiding redeploys and unleash hell, perfect for pinning units. Big Dragons, especially with a general giving -1 to be wounded are really tanky, as they also reduce attacks by 1, so absolute monsters to throw into enemy units, especially due to their tail attack. Krondys with +3 cast on Starfall and his own spell can be super handy, Starfall locking down pile ins, that really messes up armies relying on the 6" pile in shenanigans. Lots of mortal wounds going around, even at range.

Stormhosts are decent fun, Hammers are all around great to give 6+ wards wholly within 12" of objectives, that is always great. LOTS of battleline options, some are indeed perhaps better than others, the losers seem to be the new vanquishers though, dreadful damage, expected them to have 2 attacks with dmg 2. Liberators got a bit more punch, so decent for the lowest cost battleline. 

Paladins are great and can be battleline too, 3+ saves, higher damage output, you basically got +1 save and +1 rend on them all and more attacks too. Combo them with Knights Excelsior for murder. Get a Lord Releictor with Translocation to teleport in the hero phase on a 2+, they can still move after!!! (crazy). Sequitors got access to a 5+ ward, that should not be underestimated and especially evocator kitties got some more MW output and the mounts got d3 dmg at all times, not just when charging.

Dracothian guard also got much better, more wounds and rend and damage across the board. Holy Orders are also create some interesting tactics. Could be used for 10 judicators to dish out some really dangerous damage. Unleash thy hatred for 1 attacks on a paladin unit, for example the new great weapon annihilators is scary. Celestant prime is also really really good with 4+ ward.

There are very few things that got worse, most things gpt way better and many things are more streamlined. The only thing so far that stands out as somewhat bonkers though is the translocation prayer. 2+ chant on a lord to teleport a unit without any movement phase limitations is mad.

 

[cadmachine]

2 minutes ago, Scurvydog said:

Think that is underselling it a bit. There are great combos in there.

If you run dragons you can have -1 to be wounded across the board from the menagierie command trait. The Dragon Guards can move and charge in the hero phase, avoiding redeploys and unleash hell, perfect for pinning units. Big Dragons, especially with a general giving -1 to be wounded are really tanky, as they also reduce attacks by 1, so absolute monsters to throw into enemy units, especially due to their tail attack. Krondys with +3 cast on Starfall and his own spell can be super handy, Starfall locking down pile ins, that really messes up armies relying on the 6" pile in shenanigans. Lots of mortal wounds going around, even at range.

Stormhosts are decent fun, Hammers are all around great to give 6+ wards wholly within 12" of objectives, that is always great. LOTS of battleline options, some are indeed perhaps better than others, the losers seem to be the new vanquishers though, dreadful damage, expected them to have 2 attacks with dmg 2. Liberators got a bit more punch, so decent for the lowest cost battleline. 

Paladins are great and can be battleline too, 3+ saves, higher damage output, you basically got +1 save and +1 rend on them all and more attacks too. Combo them with Knights Excelsior for murder. Get a Lord Releictor with Translocation to teleport in the hero phase on a 2+, they can still move after!!! (crazy). Sequitors got access to a 5+ ward, that should not be underestimated and especially evocator kitties got some more MW output and the mounts got d3 dmg at all times, not just when charging.

Dracothian guard also got much better, more wounds and rend and damage across the board. Holy Orders are also create some interesting tactics. Could be used for 10 judicators to dish out some really dangerous damage. Unleash thy hatred for 1 attacks on a paladin unit, for example the new great weapon annihilators is scary. Celestant prime is also really really good with 4+ ward.

There are very few things that got worse, most things gpt way better and many things are more streamlined. The only thing so far that stands out as somewhat bonkers though is the translocation prayer. 2+ chant on a lord to teleport a unit without any movement phase limitations is mad.

 

Yeah I definitely agree that there is some great stuff in there and Ill enjoy alot of it, but there are some reallllly weird decisions, odd warscrolls, some just bad buffs or nerfs and the points, oh lordy the points.
Most egregious is battleline is like they over purchased Vindictor sprues and will go bankrupt if they dont sell them lol
Lost ALL Command Abilities from every warscroll to be replaced by a list of mostly okish abilities that you can only have one of once per game seems so bad it seems like a mistake and they left a page out of the book?
Knight Relictor might be the worst warscroll I've ever seen especially given its points cost.
Stormhosts are now ok, but nothing special.
and the Celestar Ballista is a real let down, literally the only warscroll I can think of published in the last 2 years that has no special rules, while the Kruleboyz bolt thrower got one of the most potent series of rules I've seen in years.

 

[Nqshou]

42 minutes ago, cadmachine said:

If you aren't thinking at a competitive level, then yes, this is gonna be a lot of fun but for anyone who were hoping their thousands of dollars and points were going to be competitive again its a bit of a let down.

Well, we all knew it was going to be like that once again. What the point to sell new models if people are going to stick to their old ones.

[cadmachine]

2 minutes ago, Nqshou said:

Well, we all knew it was going to be like that once again. What the point to sell new models if people are going to stick to their old ones.

Problem is even some of the new stuff is uncompetitive.
Vanquishers, Vigilors and Knight Relictors for instance are pretty much never takes over Vindictors and other heroes.

[ledha]

I know streamlining is important but all these warscrolls with 1 ability make me so sad

[CeleFAZE]

So, I was really looking to move in a Sacrosanct-oriented direction from Dominion, but I'm completely new to list-building for Stormcast. Out of what we have now, is there a good way to utilize a mostly sancro list, or is it going to be kind of an uphill slog? I'm happy to use anything out of the Dominion box in addition, but I love the look of evocators of both varieties, though I just don't see a lot to really make them work on a surface level. Also, would running 2 MSU units of sequitors alongside a unit of 10 vindictors be viable, or am I really just better off running more vindictors?

[cadmachine]

24 minutes ago, CeleFAZE said:

So, I was really looking to move in a Sacrosanct-oriented direction from Dominion, but I'm completely new to list-building for Stormcast. Out of what we have now, is there a good way to utilize a mostly sancro list, or is it going to be kind of an uphill slog? I'm happy to use anything out of the Dominion box in addition, but I love the look of evocators of both varieties, though I just don't see a lot to really make them work on a surface level. Also, would running 2 MSU units of sequitors alongside a unit of 10 vindictors be viable, or am I really just better off running more vindictors?

Sequitors are definitely one of the better choices after Vinnies, they hit and wound on 3s and have good abilities and are going to tough to remove when they are buffed and in the right Stormhost.

Evocators are good they aren't going to win you any games but they won't let you down if you use them right either.

There's alot to be seen as we come up with combos and synergies over the coming days too.

[PJetski]

First impressions

Winners:

• Celestant Prime has a 4+ ward now
• Gardus
• Lord-Celestant on Stardrake (Way more damage, more wounds)
• Dracoths
• Dracolines
• Ordinator
• Gardus is worth mentioning twice he is the reason you want to play Hallowed Knights
• Tauralons (new Comet Trail is incredible)
• Judicators (both kinds)
• Raptors (both kinds)
• Lord-Relictor
• All the new models*
• Knight-Draconis 
• Stormdrake Guard
• Retributors and Protectors (but not Decimators)
• Liberators (Improved, still bad, but still the cheapest battleline so theyll see play)
• Ballista?
• Celestian Vortex

Losers:

• Prosecutors (hammers better, javelins much worse, still useless)
• Castigators (they got better but still useless)
• Sequitors
• *Vanquishers
• *Knight-Relictor
• Gavriel
• Aetherwings (RIP)
• Vandus (command ability gutted)
• Lord-Aquilor
• Celestant 
• Veritant
• Azyros
• Venator
• Heraldor (RIP)
• Drakesworn Templar

[Scurvydog]

4 minutes ago, PJetski said:

First impressions

Winners:

• Celestant Prime has a 4+ ward now
• Gardus
• Lord-Celestant on Stardrake (Way more damage, more wounds)
• Dracoths
• Dracolines
• Ordinator
• Gardus is worth mentioning twice he is the reason you want to play Hallowed Knights
• Tauralons (new Comet Trail is incredible)
• Judicators (both kinds)
• Raptors (both kinds)
• Lord-Relictor
• All the new models*
• Knight-Draconis 
• Stormdrake Guard
• Retributors and Protectors (but not Decimators)
• Liberators (Improved, still bad, but still the cheapest battleline so theyll see play)
• Ballista?
• Celestian Vortex

Losers:

• Prosecutors (hammers better, javelins much worse, still useless)
• Castigators (they got better but still useless)
• Sequitors
• *Vanquishers
• *Knight-Relictor
• Gavriel
• Aetherwings (RIP)
• Vandus (command ability gutted)
• Lord-Aquilor
• Celestant 
• Veritant
• Azyros
• Venator
• Heraldor (RIP)
• Drakesworn Templar

Pretty much agree on this. At the points the Drakesworn templar is just so much worse than the lord celestant, with only a 65 point difference the 4+ save instead of 3+ just makes it a never take option sadly. 

I ordered a Stormstrike Chariot, although I dont know how often it will be used, I will bring it in more casual games for sure, as it is an interesting model, but other than that, not sure.

There are many good things in there for sure, but some will be disappointed of course, yet it should be possible to at least build any type of army you want, although far from all will be A-S tier competitive stuff.

The loss of hero phase shooting from Anvils hurt the shootcast lists though and I feel bad for those who went and purchased the vanguard triple battalion setup, as that is a thing of the past. Silver lining is all the vanguard stuff got stronger, but probably not strong enough for the points to really do much.

Stormcast for sure does not have the raw terrifying output of the new Ironjawz for example, except perhaps for the Annihilators with hammers, those guys hit HARD, but 240 pts for 9 wounds and 3+ save, that is rough.

So much to take in though. For sure the celestant prime will show up in many lists and also in almost all competitive city lists or as order ally, he is just a chad with built in deep strike and 4+ ward now, much much more staying power for the points there.

I guess new models better rules is still not proven, I am mostly sad that the new Vanquishers are so bad, I really wanted to have them replace my liberators as they look awesome, but they are just so terrible, Liberators with the prime having a grand weapon does more damage and still get +1 save... What were they thinking? Vigilors are cool in concept, but at almost 200 points for 5 they will be a hard sell... at least I can see them being used more than Vanquishers though.

[PJetski]

Hero phase shooting still exists through our holy commands. Its arguably stronger than before because they more than doubled the power of Judicators and Raptors, but it's only once per game.

It's less cost effective, but then so is everything in the battletome.

Venator at 175 LOL

[Juicy]

27 minutes ago, PJetski said:

First impressions

Winners:

• Celestant Prime has a 4+ ward now
• Gardus
• Lord-Celestant on Stardrake (Way more damage, more wounds)
• Dracoths
• Dracolines
• Ordinator
• Gardus is worth mentioning twice he is the reason you want to play Hallowed Knights
• Tauralons (new Comet Trail is incredible)
• Judicators (both kinds)
• Raptors (both kinds)
• Lord-Relictor
• All the new models*
• Knight-Draconis 
• Stormdrake Guard
• Retributors and Protectors (but not Decimators)
• Liberators (Improved, still bad, but still the cheapest battleline so theyll see play)
• Ballista?
• Celestian Vortex

Losers:

• Prosecutors (hammers better, javelins much worse, still useless)
• Castigators (they got better but still useless)
• Sequitors
• *Vanquishers
• *Knight-Relictor
• Gavriel
• Aetherwings (RIP)
• Vandus (command ability gutted)
• Lord-Aquilor
• Celestant 
• Veritant
• Azyros
• Venator
• Heraldor (RIP)
• Drakesworn Templar

Im looking at this on another way

from your winners list
-ordinator didnt get anything special but keeps his + 1 to hit. Not really an improvement.

-tauralon lost 1 spellcast and no + to cast or anything to boost casting besides stardrake. Its really really sad
-judicators. Im sure bowjuds are better but looking at my 15 xbow juds im not sure they come out as winners. Getting less attacks that hit better and lost the d3 mortals is huge in an armour meta. But more range and slightly better profile. While also losing rr1 against chaos. Hard to justify that extra cost. Also hard to find good synergie. Might be Azyros but then the points are just oo heavy that raptors are more solid. ( battleline is all fine but with sce being this expensive and still low damage output im not sure they are winners.
-starsoul maces are nerfed aswell. 

The list of winners is really small for al the non thunderstrike stuff. Im writing lists al morning for some oldcast stuff but damn im missing points, synergies. This book offers no way to go slightly offensive with wizards.