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Stormcast Eternals 3.0 - There is no "a" in Vindictors


PJetski
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6 hours ago, Mattrulesok said:

It's a cool list but unfortunately the Stardrake can't use Lauchon, it's base is too big

I didn't realise there was a size limitation? Can't see it on the scroll. 

Ah, gotchya - set up wholly within 3". Hey ho! Thanks for the heads up!

Edited by lare2
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Sorry if this is a poor question, but on the Protectors warscroll, it says they get +1 save if half (rounding down) have glaives. Does this mean that if there were three alive, and one had a glaive, they would get the +1 save, since 3 / 2 = 1.5, rounded down to 1?

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2 hours ago, KydbrookP said:

Sorry if this is a poor question, but on the Protectors warscroll, it says they get +1 save if half (rounding down) have glaives. Does this mean that if there were three alive, and one had a glaive, they would get the +1 save, since 3 / 2 = 1.5, rounded down to 1?

To my understanding, that is correct.

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So, we are going to have a small GHB 2022 - Season 1 tournament. My GHB is still in the mail and I am not really sure what to field. Also we have some strict rules regarding unit sizes.

1500 Points

  • 2 BATTLELINE UNITS (Battleline If do count)
  • No Unit over 450 Points
  • Only BATTLELINE units maybe be reinforced (BATTLELINE if do NOT count)
  • Max. 3 reinforcements
  • No tactics or strategies from Tomes or White Dwarves
  • No One Drops

 

Battleplans:

The Prize of Gallet (GHB. S.22)
The Mighty and the Cunning (GHB. S.33)
Head on Collision (GHB. S.36)

 

Here are the lists I came up with. Help me decide, suggestions welcome.
List 1: All Dracoths and mobile Relictor-Wizard.
Pro: Always wanted to do this.
Con: No Galettian Veterans

Spoiler

Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals
- Stormhost: Hammers of Sigmar (Scions of the Storm)
- Grand Strategy: Hold the Line
- Triumphs: Inspired

Leaders
Lord-Celestant on Dracoth (215)*
-
General
- Stormstrike Glaive & Thundershield
- Command Trait: Battle-lust
- Artefact: Hammer of Might
- Mount Trait: Celestial Instincts
Lord-Celestant on Dracoth (215)*
-
Stormstrike Glaive & Thundershield
Lord-Relictor (145)*
-
Artefact: Arcane Tome (Universal Artefact)
- Spell: Celestial Blades
- Prayer: Translocation

Battleline
2 x Dracothian Guard Fulminators (230)**
2 x Dracothian Guard Fulminators (230)**
2 x Dracothian Guard Concussors (220)***
2 x Dracothian Guard Concussors (220)***

Core Battalions
*Command Entourage - Magnificent
**Bounty Hunters

***Bounty Hunters

Additional Enhancements
Holy Command: Steadfast March
Artefact

Total: 1475 / 1500
Reinforced Units: 0 / 3
Allies: 0 / 300
Wounds: 68
Drops: 7

 

List 2:

Mixed List.
Pro: I like Annihilators and Dracoths. Some Galletian Veterans.

Con: Few units.

Spoiler

Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals
- Stormhost: Knights Excelsior (Scions of the Storm)
- Grand Strategy: Vendetta
- Triumphs: Inspired

Leaders
Lord-Celestant on Dracoth (215)*
-
Stormstrike Glaive & Thundershield
- Artefact: Drakescale Armour
- Mount Trait: Celestial Instincts
Lord-Relictor (145)*
-
General
- Command Trait: High Priest
- Artefact: Arcane Tome (Universal Artefact)
- Spell: Celestial Blades
- Prayer: Translocation
Lord-Imperatant (175)

Battleline
3 x Annihilators (200)***
3 x Annihilators with Meteoric Grandhammers (240)***

Units

2 x Dracothian Guard Fulminators (230)**
2 x Dracothian Guard Fulminators (230)**

Endless Spells & Invocations
Dais Arcanum (55)

Core Battalions
*Command Entourage - Magnificent
**Bounty Hunters
***Expert Conquerors

Additional Enhancements
Artefact
Holy Command: Unleash Thy Hatred

Total: 1490 / 1500
Reinforced Units: 0 / 3
Allies: 0 / 300
Wounds: 62
Drops: 7


 

List 3

Pro: I like those Dominion models. Ressurection.

Con: Yndrasta and Preators are expensive.

Spoiler
Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals
- Stormhost: Knights Excelsior (Scions of the Storm)
- Grand Strategy: Vendetta
- Triumphs: Inspired

Leaders
Yndrasta, The Celestial Spear (320)*
Lord-Relictor (145)*
- General
- Command Trait: High Priest
- Artefact: Mirrorshield
- Prayer: Translocation
Lord-Imperatant (175)*
- Artefact: Arcane Tome (Universal Artefact)
- Spell: Celestial Blades

Battleline
3 x Annihilators with Meteoric Grandhammers (240)**
3 x Annihilators (200)**
5 x Liberators (115)***
- Heavens-wrought Weapon and Shield
- 1x Grandweapons
5 x Liberators (115)***
- Heavens-wrought Weapon and Shield
- 1x Grandweapons

Units
3 x Praetors (165)***

Core Battalions
*Command Entourage - Magnificent
**Expert Conquerors
***Hunters of the Heartlands

Additional Enhancements
Artefact
Holy Command: Call for Aid

Total: 1475 / 1500
Reinforced Units: 0 / 3
Allies: 0 / 300
Wounds: 68
Drops: 8

 

 

Your Opinions?

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1 hour ago, lordmeaty said:

Your Opinions?

You can only take BH once, so the first need some tweaks.

I like your 2nd Oops-all-hammers list the best but I'd drop the relictor since translocation isn't great for melee. Id drop the celesant too as well as the endless spell and uppgrade the annihilators to grandhammers and add more hammers or some chaff/screens. Or keep the relictor, drop the celestant and endless spell to add 3 longstrikes and take Volley (though its a pretty hefty investment fot pretty mediocre shooting).

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On 6/23/2022 at 3:03 PM, PJetski said:

Every time they nerf our efficiency we end up doubling down and trimming the fat out of our lists. We are going to start running minimum heroes and all hammers + screens.

I agree that all fat needs to be trimmed, but it still has not been easy to come up with a convincing list after the nerfs to the Stormdrakes and Thunderbolt Volley. This is where I am currently at; all comments would be very welcome:

Stormcast Eternals, 1990 points

- Stormhost: Knights Excelsior (Scions of the Storm)
- Mortal Realm: Ghur
- Grand Strategy: No Place for the Weak
- Triumphs: Inspired

LEADERS
Knight-Draconis (300)*
- General
- Command Trait: Master of Magic
- Artefact: Arcane Tome
- Mount Trait: Celestial Instincts
- Spell: Celestial Blades

Lord-Imperatant (175)*

UNITS
6 x Annihilators with Meteoric Grandhammers (480)*

5 x Liberators (115)*
- Heavens-wrought Weapon and Shield
- 1 x Grandweapons

4 x Stormdrake Guard (680)*
- Drakerider's Warblade

3 x Vanguard-Raptors with Longstrike Crossbows (240)*

CORE BATTALIONS
*Battle Regiment

ADDITIONAL ENHANCEMENTS
Holy Command: Thunderbolt Volley

TOTAL: 1990/2000

The basic idea is an aggressive list with two melee hammers, supported by Longstrikes. Everything is in a Battle Regiment to allow the list to decide whether to go first or second. The Grandhammers and Imperatant start in the sky and drop to take advantage of the 7” rerollable charge, hopefully after the Longstrikes have punched a hole in a screen. The Grandhammers are slow, so they need to delete key units and preferably also capture an objective on the turn they drop. The Knight-Draconis and the Stormdrakes work together as a second, more mobile hammer. The Liberators screen for the Longstrikes and hopefully sit on an objective.

The list is not as strong as what Stormcast were able to build before the nerfs, but I hope it can still do well with tight play and a bit of luck.

Comments?

Edited by feadair
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Had my first game with the new GHB today. It was very fun, we played Prize of Gallet and at least for that battleplan I think the double turn is "solved" because going second is so good that I chose (or would have chosen when I lost the priority roll) to go second every turn rather than double my opponent, except on round 5.

Anyway, this is the Stormcast section, so some observations:

I forget who was talking up Gryph Hounds a while ago but I am inclined to agree after one game with them. They made a nice screen, are not Galletian Veterans, and 25 attacks is nothing to sniff at, even if they're on 3s and 4s with no rend. The retreat messed up my opponent's otherwise very nicely calculated attack order. The temptation to put them in Bounty Hunters just because of the sheer volume of 1 damage attacks is actually quite high.

Lord Arcanum on Gryph Charger my beloved. I think this guy is really good. Scintillating Trail as a mount trait is I think a lot better than it looks on paper. -1 to unbind spells cast from wholly within 12" is almost functionally equivalent to +1 to cast. For spells with low CVs, the main thing stopping them from going off is the unbind roll. A -1 to unbind turns your 55% chance to win vs the unbind roll into a 66% chance. That's pretty big. He's also super versatile for battle tactics. Make him your general and you have a decently killy model who can pick off small units, he can teleport so he can always threaten Desecrate their Lands/Barge through Enemy Lines (combined with a deep strike or another teleporting unit).

Evocators on Dracolines continue to be pretty much my favourite unit in the faction. 3 of them in bounty hunters rips any veteran unit to shreds. They just die frustratingly easily. And they're drawing my eye even further to Vanguard Palladors, who I think are possibly an underrated unit but I've not had the chance to try them. 215 points is a bit steep, but throw them in Bounty Hunters and they're going to do a ton of damage with axes, or give them the javelins for a super mobile ranged threat that can even be battleline in a really useful subfaction.

 

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8 hours ago, Dogmantra said:

Had my first game with the new GHB today. It was very fun, we played Prize of Gallet and at least for that battleplan I think the double turn is "solved" because going second is so good that I chose (or would have chosen when I lost the priority roll) to go second every turn rather than double my opponent, except on round 5.

Anyway, this is the Stormcast section, so some observations:

I forget who was talking up Gryph Hounds a while ago but I am inclined to agree after one game with them. They made a nice screen, are not Galletian Veterans, and 25 attacks is nothing to sniff at, even if they're on 3s and 4s with no rend. The retreat messed up my opponent's otherwise very nicely calculated attack order. The temptation to put them in Bounty Hunters just because of the sheer volume of 1 damage attacks is actually quite high.

 

YES, YES!! Another gryph-hounds believer! Now you need to pull off the pro move of moving the unit 9" down the battlefield, charge, pile 3 and then retreat onto an objective your opponent previously thought was safe. 

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Yeh that's what they do most games, it's not a trick you set up per se, but it's always worth remembering that gryph-hounds have 25 inches of movement on a 7" charge because your opponent will definitely not realise.

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Posted (edited)

The Stormkeep #25 is live now on youtube and podcast platforms!
This is a big video: an updated Stormcast Tier List. We discuss the changes in Season 1 and rank every Stormcast warscroll, every Enhancement, every Stormhost, all the Endless Spells, and even some notable allies.
We also discuss and rank all the Grand Strategies and Battle Tactics available to Stormcast in Season 1... so if youve been feeling overwhelmed by all the new options then this video can help you!

 

Edited by PJetski
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Probably a weird question, but are there any better choices for storm keep cities units? I like the idea of having out little mortals along for the ride. I'm going to exclude phoenix guard on grounds of them being in every cities army in my area though. 

Not important but I'm rolling around with 30 liberators currently. XD Its fun bringing a mild horde. Good to have the old lads out too. Currently going opposite of our meta brain's idea of as few galatians as possible. See how it works out. Need to wrangle one of the competitive players to test it against its natural enemy. Minimum size units on the libs in case I roll bad. 😛

 How are you folks responding to the new stuff?

For Sigmar! Have a pleasant week!

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29 minutes ago, TheArborealWalrus said:

Probably a weird question, but are there any better choices for storm keep cities units? I like the idea of having out little mortals along for the ride. I'm going to exclude phoenix guard on grounds of them being in every cities army in my area though.

I think Pistoliers, outriders and drakespawn knights are good screens which avoid GV keyword and don't give away point for the one tactic/scenario. They don't get anything interesting from being coalition instead of just allies but that's just how Stormkeep works in 90% of cases 🤷‍♂️

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Posted (edited)

Sisters of the thorn are a fairly mobile wizard and a frost phoenix might be ok for the -1 to wound aura from a cities perspective you usually take stormcast for something durable or heavy hitting since thats somewhat scarce in the cities book, if your doing stormkeep your losing some mobility from scions of storm so shadow warriors could also be a consideration to get some of that back.  Chariots are also pretty cheap for how much space they take up they dont really do much besides blocking tho

Edited by Trickflo
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Ghur Battlemage is the obvious one and it is incredibly effective. +2 to run and charge is already good (+2 to charge after a translocation brings it down to a very doable 7+ on the charge roll), but combine with Steadfast March to double tap the bonus, and that's 4 extra inches of threat range on a key unit once a game. Combine with a Stormstrike Chariot or your preferred mounted bounty hunter unit and bam you have an average 17" run plus an average 9" charge for about a 26" threat range.

From a flavour perspective it does feel a little silly having an army of huge elite supersoldiers and just one little human sized guy casting a spell but it's powerful and fun.

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I had been looking at pistoleers for speed and iron breakers for 10 models with a 3+ save to be put in the counts as 3 battalion. Otherwise, cities units seem thematic but ineffective. *shrug* Still like the idea. Especially the cav.

Had been leaning towards "call for aid" for that enhancement since my list is liberator spam. Might try the other with the wizard if I go for an alpha strike list.

Thoughts on the lord exorcist for the no respawn bubble around him? Are the other mage/priest lords and knights worth considering beyond the lord relictor and arcanum? There are so many to look at. With the rise of endless spells again, is the knight arcanum worth it? I've just gotten my hands on the "new" book recently and want to try things out.

Cheers

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49 minutes ago, TheArborealWalrus said:

Thoughts on the lord exorcist for the no respawn bubble around him? Are the other mage/priest lords and knights worth considering beyond the lord relictor and arcanum? There are so many to look at. With the rise of endless spells again, is the knight arcanum worth it? I've just gotten my hands on the "new" book recently and want to try things out.

I think the Lord Exorcist is an awkward one simply because his main draw is incredibly powerful and useful, but also might just do nothing against certain armies. He has potential, and adding models back to units is becoming more common what with things like the new battleplan that gives units a 5+ rally on objectives, or a 4+ for Galletian Veterans. I'm hopeful he will become a useful pick but it is very dependent on what your opponent brings.

In terms of other useful wizards, Knight Incantor! Cheapest wizard in the faction and one of the strongest utility abilities with the once a game auto-unbind. In fact, the Knight Incantor is why I am currently unconvinced that the Knight Arcanum will find a place in an endless spell world. It's obviously early days and so I can't really say for sure how things will pan out, but a 3" bubble around a single 40mm base doesn't seem like enough space to protect all that much from Endless Spells. Considering that something like the Purple Sun's instant death effect works within 3", you'd need a few Knights Arcanum to really screen out a decent area and keep key models safe. And of course you run the risk of the effect being useless if your opponent has not brought any endless spells. I would rather have a Knight Incantor and use the auto-unbind to stop them getting the endless spell onto the board in the first place, remember that a single unbind can keep you safe for up to 3 hero phases if you go on to double turn them. The other benefit is that it works against all spells, so while you still run the risk of it being useless vs a non-spellcasting army, it's going to be useful more often than the Knight Arcanum ability.

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My local store is organizing a quick 1500 points tourney with the new GHB, we still don't know the battleplans but I'd like to see your opinions on these two lists:

Hammers and Chariots:

Spoiler

 - Army Faction: Stormcast Eternals

  - Army Type: Scions of the Storm

  - Subfaction: Knights Excelsior

  - Grand Strategy: No Place for the Weak

  - Triumph: Bloodthirsty

LEADERS

Lord-Imperatant (175)

  - General

  - Command Traits: Shock and Awe

  - Artefacts of Power: Mirrorshield

Battlemage (100)

BATTLELINE

Annihilators with Meteoric Grandhammers (240)**

Judicators with Skybolt Bows (400)**

Annihilators with Meteoric Grandhammers (240)**

OTHER

Stormstrike Chariot (165)*

  - Stormstrike Axe and Tempestuous Spear

Stormstrike Chariot (165)*

  - Stormstrike Axe and Tempestuous Spear

CORE BATTALIONS

*Bounty Hunters

**Expert Conquerors

TOTAL POINTS: 1485/2000

Fulminators and Comet:

Spoiler

 - Army Faction: Stormcast Eternals

  - Army Type: Scions of the Storm

  - Subfaction: Hammers of Sigmar

  - Grand Strategy: Defend What’s Ours

  - Triumph: Bloodthirsty

LEADERS

Knight-Incantor (125)***

  - Spells: Celestial Blades

Lord-Relictor (145)***

  - General

  - Command Traits: High Priest

  - Artefacts of Power: Arcane Tome

  - Spells: Thundershock

  - Prayers: Translocation

Knight-Judicator with Gryph-hounds (205)***

BATTLELINE

Dracothian Guard Fulminators (230)*

Dracothian Guard Fulminators (230)*

Liberators (115)**

  - Liberator-Prime

  - Grandweapon

  - Heavens-wrought Weapon and Sigmarite Shield

Liberators (115)**

  - Liberator-Prime

  - Heavens-wrought Weapon and Sigmarite Shield

  - Grandweapon

OTHER

Vanguard-Raptors with Longstrike Crossbows (240)

ENDLESS SPELLS & INVOCATIONS

1 x Everblaze Comet (90)

CORE BATTALIONS

*Bounty Hunters

**Expert Conquerors

***Command Entourage

  - Magnificent

 

TOTAL POINTS: 1495/2000

There will be many new people playing Age of Sigmar since this is our first big tournament in a while, so I'd like to field something more on the fun side but still a little competitive.

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Worth mentioning that as of the latest FAQ/Errata that Fulminator Glaives do not benefit from being in Bounty Hunters on the turn they charged, since modifiers were ruled to be overridden by "set" effects (i.e. the damage of 3 on the charge sets the damage characteristic and therefore overrides any +1s to damage from other sources). You may want to reconsider your battallion choices on the second list, but then I think there's a decent enough argument for keeping them in Bounty Hunters to increase their damage on off-turns if they don't totally wipe a unit, and the Dracoth's claws will always benefit.

Personally I'd pick the first list to play because it seems more fun but the comet does always entice me

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11 minutes ago, Dogmantra said:

Worth mentioning that as of the latest FAQ/Errata that Fulminator Glaives do not benefit from being in Bounty Hunters on the turn they charged, since modifiers were ruled to be overridden by "set" effects (i.e. the damage of 3 on the charge sets the damage characteristic and therefore overrides any +1s to damage from other sources). You may want to reconsider your battallion choices on the second list, but then I think there's a decent enough argument for keeping them in Bounty Hunters to increase their damage on off-turns if they don't totally wipe a unit, and the Dracoth's claws will always benefit.

Personally I'd pick the first list to play because it seems more fun but the comet does always entice me

I've seen this going around too, but the FAQ question *and* answer are pretty specific about getting the modifier THEN changing the characteristic itself: "If the effect of a rule changes a characteristic to a specific value, it overrides any earlier modifiers". Fulminators D characteristic is changed when they make the charge, they receive the BH modifier when attacking a Vet unit.
 

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Posted (edited)

Agreed, since the FAQ says "it overrides any earlier modifiers", but the Bounty Hunter +1 is not earlier to the charge.

Well... maybe?

Edited by Talas
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Have there been any successful Stormcast lists since the nerfs? There have been at least a few two-day tournaments with a decent number of players (From the Ashes, Kingdom of Skrappa Spill, South Coast Series, Summer on the Coast), but no Stormcast success that I have been able to detect. But perhaps I am missing something?

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On 6/29/2022 at 8:46 PM, umpac said:

You can only take BH once, so the first need some tweaks.

I like your 2nd Oops-all-hammers list the best but I'd drop the relictor since translocation isn't great for melee. Id drop the celesant too as well as the endless spell and uppgrade the annihilators to grandhammers and add more hammers or some chaff/screens. Or keep the relictor, drop the celestant and endless spell to add 3 longstrikes and take Volley (though its a pretty hefty investment fot pretty mediocre shooting).

 

Thanks for your Input. After a some testing I decided to take this list:

 

Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals
- Stormhost: Knights Excelsior (Scions of the Storm)
- Grand Strategy:
- Triumphs: Inspired

Leaders
Lord-Arcanum on Gryph-Charger (195)
- General
- Command Trait: Master of Magic
- Artefact: Arcane Tome (Universal Artefact)
- Mount Trait: Scintillating Trail
- Spell: Celestial Blades
Lord-Imperatant (175)

Battleline
3 x Annihilators with Meteoric Grandhammers (240)**
3 x Annihilators with Meteoric Grandhammers (240)**
5 x Judicators with Boltstorm Crossbows (190)**

Units
2 x Dracothian Guard Fulminators (230)*
2 x Dracothian Guard Fulminators (230)*

Core Battalions
*Bounty Hunters
**Expert Conquerors

Additional Enhancements
Holy Command: Unleash Thy Hatred

Total: 1500 / 1500
Reinforced Units: 0 / 3
Allies: 0 / 300
Wounds: 67
Drops: 7

 
 
LAoGC is fairly mobile and a potent wizard. It worked well in test games. Judicators for some shooting. Annhiliators and Fulminators bring more than enough "Oomph" for 1.500 Points.
 
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20 hours ago, Tizianolol said:

Guys do you know if during a fight i activate my unit of vindictors in hallowed knight, after my opponent kill 2 of my vindictors models, can I still fight on death? Or I cant because i attacked before? Thx a lot

As long as they're in combat range when they die, they always fight on death. 

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