Dogmantra Posted June 15, 2022 Share Posted June 15, 2022 1 hour ago, Kaptinskaggy said: If only there were a way to make evocators battleline... Don't worry, if the Bounty Hunter batallion is indeed +1 melee damage vs galletian veterans as rumoured in the same sources that accurately leaked these rules, they will benefit massively since they have such a large number of attacks. Gryph Hounds too, interestingly, being a lot of 1 damage attacks for very few points. Low rend will be a bit of a problem against some armies but plenty of armies have 5+ or even 6+ save battleline infantry which won't enjoy the double damage doggies at all. Other kneejerk reactions to today's reveal: - Stormkeep will still be useful but niche, pretty much as is. It'll be easier to get one-drops in Stormkeep now, given you won't have to worry about filling Expert Conquerers. - Annihilators will be interesting in Knights Excelsior. Able to count as 3 (which counteracts a huge weakness of theirs), their proficiency at dropping from the heavens will be nice with the proving ground decision, and the fact we're likely to see larger units again makes the KE subfaction ability trigger more often. The thing I don't like is that new command ability which could stop units of 3 in their tracks fairly easily. But 6 or even 9 shield annihilators sounds like a fun thing to try. Maybe I need to hit up ebay for even more of them. - Vanquishers finally make sense. - I think between the prime hunters rules and this, we may see more people switch over from 6 Longstrikes to 15 Judicators with Bows for their thunderbolt volley needs. Being able to count as 45 on a home objective and have slightly less weedy melee if connected with will be nice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OkayestDM Posted June 15, 2022 Share Posted June 15, 2022 2 hours ago, Kaptinskaggy said: If only there were a way to make evocators battleline... While disappointing, it's probably also for the best. Between the massive number of attacks and the mortal wound output, they'd be too killy a unit by far. As is, there's still incentive to bring them as a block of 10, because even though you don't get the additional attacks, you do still roll for their mortals, meaning that you aren't just buying ablative wounds when you reinforce the unit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogmantra Posted June 15, 2022 Share Posted June 15, 2022 Oh, also thinking on the impact to Vindictors - I think they still have a lot of use and benefit from being 2" reach even with these new rules. Again, assuming the bounty hunter batallion is +1 damage, Vindictors allow you to spread the risk of an attack. Drop a line of 5 other battleline in front and then 5 Vindictors behind. All of the models still get to attack, but either they can't/don't want to hit your vindictors in the back, maxing losses out at 5 rather than 10 models, or they have to split attacks which makes it more likely they will fail to wipe either unit (and then someone like Yndrasta gets to double tap the model return if you want to double down on it). What I think will be extra nice (if as people are suspecting will happen that your galletian veterans will be a huge liability), is using cheap units like Prosecutors (in non-Tempest Lords) and Gryph Hounds to screen, since they will not be a liability for any extra damage, and Vindictors can still fight over the top of them. Prosecutors can screen a comparable area with just 3 models in the unit as a 5 man unit can thanks to their 3" coherency. With javelins, they have a base 3+ save. They are also nice and versatile in that if you want, you can go Tempest Lords and benefit from all of those Galletian Veterans bonuses (12" flying unit with ok shooting and a 3+ save that counts as 9 models on an objective for just 115 points? yes please) 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PJetski Posted June 16, 2022 Author Share Posted June 16, 2022 Evocators still aren't good, unfortunately Dracolines might be a 1 of sometimes, their damage is pretty good against VETERANS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lare2 Posted June 16, 2022 Share Posted June 16, 2022 9 hours ago, Dogmantra said: switch over from 6 Longstrikes to 15 Judicators with Bows There's also rumours that longstrike are gonna go up in cost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommissarRotke Posted June 16, 2022 Share Posted June 16, 2022 10 hours ago, lare2 said: There's also rumours that longstrike are gonna go up in cost. TBH it's the only real balancing move for Longstrikes. I feel like it's one of the few perfect warscrolls in terms of lore vs statline, so any change to that would either kick them out of their sniper niche or feel flat as hell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattrulesok Posted June 16, 2022 Share Posted June 16, 2022 So if sequitors go down in points do they suddenly become good in this meta? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
readercolin Posted June 16, 2022 Share Posted June 16, 2022 1 hour ago, Mattrulesok said: So if sequitors go down in points do they suddenly become good in this meta? Probably not. The problem that sequitors have is that unless they cost the same amount as liberators, there is going to be a cheaper battleline tax. And if you want an actual hammer, point for point annihilators are still better in basically every way. Vanquishers may have a place if hordes become a thing because a 10 man squad of vanquishers can actually outdamage a 3 man squad of annihilators, while costing 10 points more and putting 20 wounds down instead of 9. Stick them in the bounty hunter battalion and they can scour other hordes off the board as they go from damage 1 to damage 2. However, when you look at sequitors, unless they drop to the same number of points as liberators, there will always be a cheaper battleline tax. And even the bounty hunter battalion isn't going to add enough damage to them to let them compete points wise with paladin units. So realistically, there is no real role for sequitors as either screens, tanks, or damage compared to other options in the roster. You can of course still use them. But I highly doubt they will be the optimal choice. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NauticalSoup Posted June 16, 2022 Share Posted June 16, 2022 The fact that Seqs aren't even strictly better than liberators is also kind of annoying when it comes to justifying that price. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommissarRotke Posted June 17, 2022 Share Posted June 17, 2022 (edited) points points points https://preview.redd.it/emnutmty17691.jpg?width=1389&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7f8b69e885f64af0b1c763f28d68b2d2e7cc0ac5 https://preview.redd.it/leva1v2z17691.jpg?width=1295&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ea217aa3230f4ce0f8dc3652ce2b24a17ea7807b edit: not sure how things changed except Knight-Judicator going up. Points still seem too high across the board for our heroes... Edited June 17, 2022 by CommissarRotke Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaptinskaggy Posted June 17, 2022 Share Posted June 17, 2022 23 minutes ago, CommissarRotke said: points points points https://preview.redd.it/emnutmty17691.jpg?width=1389&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7f8b69e885f64af0b1c763f28d68b2d2e7cc0ac5 https://preview.redd.it/leva1v2z17691.jpg?width=1295&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ea217aa3230f4ce0f8dc3652ce2b24a17ea7807b edit: not sure how things changed except Knight-Judicator going up. Points still seem too high across the board for our heroes... I don't think they changed the points of the Knight-Judicator. I don't think they touched Stormcast points values at all - maybe it'll be FAQ'd or addressed in the near future? They really should just stop printing points values on paper at this point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NauticalSoup Posted June 17, 2022 Share Posted June 17, 2022 Yeah same points. Everything I glanced at is unchanged but maybe there's a change hiding in there somewhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcvs Posted June 17, 2022 Share Posted June 17, 2022 43 minutes ago, NauticalSoup said: Yeah same points. Everything I glanced at is unchanged but maybe there's a change hiding in there somewhere. Everblaze comet 90pts let's gooooooo ☄️😅 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NauticalSoup Posted June 17, 2022 Share Posted June 17, 2022 20 minutes ago, Marcvs said: Everblaze comet 90pts let's gooooooo ☄️😅 Think of all the stuff I could buy with 10 more points to play with! 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommissarRotke Posted June 17, 2022 Share Posted June 17, 2022 2 hours ago, Kaptinskaggy said: I don't think they changed the points of the Knight-Judicator. I don't think they touched Stormcast points values at all - maybe it'll be FAQ'd or addressed in the near future? They really should just stop printing points values on paper at this point. Oh really? why the hell would they have printed non-changes then... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The World Tree Posted June 18, 2022 Share Posted June 18, 2022 11 hours ago, CommissarRotke said: Oh really? why the hell would they have printed non-changes then... They include all points, but have REPEATEDLY said that there will be a digital points update on release (which will potentially include changes for newer books). In future I suspect there will be no physical points at all (as will now be the case in 40k), but it was too late to change it this time. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommissarRotke Posted June 20, 2022 Share Posted June 20, 2022 On 6/18/2022 at 2:00 AM, The World Tree said: They include all points, but have REPEATEDLY said that there will be a digital points update on release (which will potentially include changes for newer books). In future I suspect there will be no physical points at all (as will now be the case in 40k), but it was too late to change it this time. Oh okay, that's what confused me: I thought the digital points were the same thing that got printed with this GHB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommissarRotke Posted June 21, 2022 Share Posted June 21, 2022 Finalized points are out, still no changes for SCE. Maybe a Battlescroll update (and hopefully not just nerfs) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcvs Posted June 21, 2022 Share Posted June 21, 2022 6 minutes ago, CommissarRotke said: Finalized points are out, still no changes for SCE. Maybe a Battlescroll update (and hopefully not just nerfs) narrator: it was, in fact, just nerfs (although it might "just" be SdG losing the hero phase move) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogmantra Posted June 21, 2022 Share Posted June 21, 2022 Feels a bit odd that there was no points adjustment to address the lopsided nature of wizards in faction. Knight Incantor remains the cheapest wizard and also weirdly probably the best. You could argue that the (foot) Lords Arcanum and Exorcist benefit from increased range on spells, and also their special abilities will probably be increased in utility with this season (generic endless spells getting a big buff & horde meta with rally respectively). But I really can't see why the Knight Arcanum is supposed to be better than the Incantor? Even in a specific situation where the KA's ability of predatory spells not ending near it is going to be useful, not only because it's quite a small area of effect, but also because the Incantor's ability to auto-unbind achieves the same thing (stopping the big bad purple sun) but with far far more utility (such as anything other than stopping the purple sun). And then the KI has a better attack profile and a better warscroll spell. Very odd. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommissarRotke Posted June 21, 2022 Share Posted June 21, 2022 Anyone painted a Chariot yet? I keep forgetting they exist... If so, how was it? Did you feel like you needed to paint the riders separate before gluing them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogmantra Posted June 21, 2022 Share Posted June 21, 2022 Yes it's worth painting the riders separately. Personally the push fit is good enough that I just left them push fit only so I can easily pull the spear holding one out and switch it from spear (silly looking but better rules) to bow (what chariots should be). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommissarRotke Posted June 21, 2022 Share Posted June 21, 2022 21 minutes ago, Dogmantra said: Yes it's worth painting the riders separately. Personally the push fit is good enough that I just left them push fit only so I can easily pull the spear holding one out and switch it from spear (silly looking but better rules) to bow (what chariots should be). oooh even better! So you did not glue the riders to the chariot or glue the passenger's weapon? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogmantra Posted June 21, 2022 Share Posted June 21, 2022 Correct! The push fit is in an actually sensible place on the chariot which I like, unlike some other kits, so you each rider comes away totally separately and the weapon is attached specifically to one arm and one hand, so you can quite easily remove it. The chariot is one of the best models in the whole stormcast range imo, apart from the fact that the spear looks so goofy, and it commits the (minor) sin of there being a rock moulded onto one of the wheels. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommissarRotke Posted June 21, 2022 Share Posted June 21, 2022 13 minutes ago, Dogmantra said: The chariot is one of the best models in the whole stormcast range imo, apart from the fact that the spear looks so goofy, and it commits the (minor) sin of there being a rock moulded onto one of the wheels. I was so concerned about the capes I didn't even notice that rock wow.. really good to hear it's so easy to swap the weapons though. I love spears but I agree that chariots are better with bows. Big shame the bow is so much worse than the spear Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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