Stormcast Eternals 3.0 - There is no "a" in Vindictors

[Mark Williams]

7 minutes ago, lare2 said:

Almost as good as blood warriors.

[PrimeElectrid]

It’s good, but it’s not paladins/dragons/Dracoths as battleline good.

[PJetski]

23 minutes ago, lare2 said:

This makes Sequitors and Vanquishers a lot better. I really like this kind of ability because it carves out niches for units that may otherwise not see play.

[lare2]

Just thinking, the rule would be pretty tasty with the Stormkeep rules. 5 Libs on an objective, counting as 15, causing MW when charged and fighting again when dying. Not bad. Shame I don't run Knights. 

[PrimeElectrid]

9 minutes ago, lare2 said:

Just thinking, the rule would be pretty tasty with the Stormkeep rules. 5 Libs on an objective, counting as 15, causing MW when charged and fighting again when dying. Not bad. Shame I don't run Knights. 

Liberators are the worst unit to benefit from this. Vindictors, Sequitors and probably Vanquishers all have much better damage attacks.

[PJetski]

Gonna be stupid if they don't change Cycle of the Storm

 

[Colgado]

It doesn't seem to be the strongest ability. But vindictors/vanquishers with yndrasta/relictor/arcanum support become this annoying unit that fights, dies, fights again, explodes, then gets reanimated. Definitely fun in theory.

[Scurvydog]

3 minutes ago, Colgado said:

It doesn't seem to be the strongest ability. But vindictors/vanquishers with yndrasta/relictor/arcanum support become this annoying unit that fights, dies, fights again, explodes, then gets reanimated. Definitely fun in theory.

These are the cute builds that sound like fun but never works in any real game. Like the crematorium bonereapers that could explode and be brought back by harvesters + Arkhan etc, but in any real game it never works out that well

[Colgado]

Exactly. Fluffy and fun. There will be a few games that it all comes together and magic happens, but most stronger builds will ignore or negate these types of traits.

[Marcvs]

2 minutes ago, Colgado said:

Exactly. Fluffy and fun. There will be a few games that it all comes together and magic happens, but most stronger builds will ignore or negate these types of traits.

as I see it (with very incomplete information of course) the problem here is that this trait is an investment in the offensive potential of REDEEMER units, which do not hit very hard to start with (tbc for vanquishers). What I want from these units is that they survive, not that they inflict some negligible damage when they die -especially if the thing killing them has a 2+ save and some sort of ward.

[PJetski]

21 minutes ago, Marcvs said:

as I see it (with very incomplete information of course) the problem here is that this trait is an investment in the offensive potential of REDEEMER units, which do not hit very hard to start with (tbc for vanquishers). What I want from these units is that they survive, not that they inflict some negligible damage when they die -especially if the thing killing them has a 2+ save and some sort of ward.

There is value in improving the damage of your anvil/wall units. Sequitors weren't worth their points over Liberators in 2nd ed because the damage difference was negligible since they died basically at the same rate. However, Vindictors have a 3+ save and abilities like Only the Faithful push their damage potential up.

Only the Faithful makes REDEEMER units 50% better at taking trades while fighting over objectives. If you charge into 10+ Vindictors to try to clear them off an objective you will be taking some significant damage back, especially if you are playing Stormkeeps dealing some mortal wounds when they get charged from Shield of Civilisation.

Only the Faithful activates even if you die from sources outside of 3", so you can fight even as you die from magic/shooting. Also worth noting that you don't necessarily have to fight the unit that killed you, so you can pull models from a flank to fight a unit that hasn't attacked yet.

Only the Faithful is a good ability. It may not be the meta competitive list but it's definitely good.

I don't think "it doesn't counter Archaon" is a strong enough argument to justify any ability being bad.

edit: Forgot to mention Blaze of Glory

Edited September 8, 2021 by PJetski

[Erdemo86]

Everyone Talking about vanquishers, do we have the warscroll?

[mystycalchemy]

4 minutes ago, Erdemo86 said:

Everyone Talking about vanquishers, do we have the warscroll?

I wish but it's likely they'll be REDEEMER conclave, hence the mention of them.

[Marcvs]

12 minutes ago, PJetski said:

I don't think "it doesn't counter Archaon" is a strong enough argument to justify any ability being bad.

Thanks for all your points, I agree it's a "good" ability (as in, better than most of our present stormhosts).

Concerning Archaon however: 10 vindictors all dying to a stonehorn will do 2 damage back on average if the stonehorn hasn't used all out defense (or 3 to a mega gargant with the amulet) and if they are all in range to fight on death, so it's not only the god level baddies, but also the mid-level ones who will just shrug at this.

[PJetski]

13 minutes ago, Marcvs said:

Thanks for all your points, I agree it's a "good" ability (as in, better than most of our present stormhosts).

Concerning Archaon however: 10 vindictors all dying to a stonehorn will do 2 damage back on average if the stonehorn hasn't used all out defense (or 3 to a mega gargant with the amulet) and if they are all in range to fight on death, so it's not only the god level baddies, but also the mid-level ones who will just shrug at this.

Sure, but that's a feature of Stonehorns and not a flaw of Vindictors. 

If the meta continues to focus on 2+ MONSTER HEROS then maybe this ability won't be meta relevant. That's okay; not every unit or ability will be relevant in competitive games.

Obviously you can't build a list entirely out of Vindictors and expect Only the Faithful to carry you through every matchup. You still need a combined arms approach to tackle a diverse metagame in order to consistently go 5-0.

For that same reason I am skeptical that our new battleline choices will be worth anything. It sounds cool that you can replace your Liberators with Paladins or Dracoths, but you still want some basic cheap dudes to hold objectives and screen your hammer units so you probably won't replace all your battleline slots.

Edited September 8, 2021 by PJetski

[xking]

Do we know if liberators have any new warscroll abilities?

Edited September 8, 2021 by xking

[CommissarRotke]

2 hours ago, PJetski said:

This makes Sequitors and Vanquishers a lot better. I really like this kind of ability because it carves out niches for units that may otherwise not see play.

So Vanquishers are confirmed Redeemer along with Vindictors? It seemed strange this ability only covers one keyword, and as I'm a HK fan I really hope there are more Stormhost traits than this!

2 hours ago, lare2 said:

Just thinking, the rule would be pretty tasty with the Stormkeep rules. 5 Libs on an objective, counting as 15, causing MW when charged and fighting again when dying. Not bad. Shame I don't run Knights. 

If Stormkeep rules apply to more units, I'm heavily considering running a keep list 👀 I've had the idea for a tanky/turtling Stormhost of Hallowed defenders for a while now

50 minutes ago, PJetski said:

Only the Faithful makes REDEEMER units 50% better at taking trades while fighting over objectives. If you charge into 10+ Vindictors to try to clear them off an objective you will be taking some significant damage back, especially if you are playing Stormkeeps dealing some mortal wounds when they get charged from Shield of Civilisation.

aaaand there it is! Stormkeep Knights here I come!!

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

36 minutes ago, Marcvs said:

Thanks for all your points, I agree it's a "good" ability (as in, better than most of our present stormhosts).

Concerning Archaon however: 10 vindictors all dying to a stonehorn will do 2 damage back on average if the stonehorn hasn't used all out defense (or 3 to a mega gargant with the amulet) and if they are all in range to fight on death, so it's not only the god level baddies, but also the mid-level ones who will just shrug at this.

Honestly, if even an ability as strong as fighting twice is not good enough, that speaks more to problems elsewhere than to problems with the ability in question. In this case probably problems with how tanky the average monster has become or how underpowered Stormcast warscrolls are.

[Belathor]

I think the problem here if I’m understanding this right is trying to use vindictors as a way to deal with archaon and stone horns. They’re battleline and they’re harder to kill battle line making it tough to give up broken ranks. They aren’t a lean green mean killing machine. They’re glorified chaff. Find something else in the book to deal with those and let the vindictors support them or slow down the enemy from getting to them

[stus67]

21 hours ago, Clan's Cynic said:

I actually think the Thunderstrike Anvils of the Heldenhammer look worse. They really need that bit of red cloth to 'pop' in my opinion, there's just so much jet black there's nowhere for the eyes to centre on.

I say this as somebody who's favourite Stormhost are the Anvils and has his few Stormcast painted as such.

As somebody with a full army of painted sacrosanct anvils I agree with this. Without any white robes and red accents it's just a black model with bits of gold and it kinda loses its visual appeal. It's why I'm thinking about starting a whole separate stomcast army painted as the celestial vindicators.

[lare2]

They don't always have to look bad. I found these online and saved them for reference as they look immense. 

P.s. if these are yours, very well done! Lush work. 

Edited September 8, 2021 by lare2

[jhamslam]

3 hours ago, CommissarRotke said:

So Vanquishers are confirmed Redeemer along with Vindictors?

Look for a lightning bolt on the shoulder

[CommissarRotke]

1 hour ago, jhamslam said:

Look for a lightning bolt on the shoulder

Went back to look at all the new releases again. Gotta say The Vigilors are growing on me... if we don't have to attach the back capes I might need to pick up a box. Ugh my wallet  

[Lengthster]

GW's scheme for the Anvils would be way better if they painted the shoulder pads red too IMO. There are good ways to incorporate your colours into most SC models. My scheme is basically anvils but white instead of black, composition-wise my army is consistently red around the shoulders and shield. Then plumes, robes, capes etc are red too. Black and white can be pretty dull on their own and I find that my models look more 'complete' when I add the other colours. Leaving them with white shoulder pads just looks unfinished for some reason.

[ledha]

16 hours ago, Colgado said:

It doesn't seem to be the strongest ability. But vindictors/vanquishers with yndrasta/relictor/arcanum support become this annoying unit that fights, dies, fights again, explodes, then gets reanimated. Definitely fun in theory.

I'm trying to imagine the scene in a AOS book and it's hilarious