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Stormcast Eternals 3.0 - There is no "a" in Vindictors


PJetski

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9 hours ago, Lucur said:

In the god-meta Krondys has a godly pricetag but not so godly survivability (read: no ward). Against any opponent that can nuke a gargant a turn, big drakeman just gets deleted.

Why is everyone seemingly so obsessed with named characters having to have a Ward or they’re considered trash?

why isn’t the conversation instead that mortal wounds are a problem (there’s too much of them flying around these days) that needs to be addressed?

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6 minutes ago, Joseph Mackay said:

Why is everyone seemingly so obsessed with named characters having to have a Ward or they’re considered trash?

why isn’t the conversation instead that mortal wounds are a problem (there’s too much of them flying around these days) that needs to be addressed?

It's a very simple case of "which is more likely to get changed". Giving a named character a Ward is far, far more likely to happen than the entire damage mechanic of mortal wounds being revamped.

Not to mention, you can have both conversations - they go hand in hand. Are mortals too prevalent in the current game? Absolutely. Does that mean important models need a Ward to survive effectively? Absolutely. 

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I extend my humble greetings to Sigmar's chosen warriors!

Would someone be so kind as to explain to me what the Lord Imperitant is good for or against? A friend of mine just bought a pretty huge collection of Stormcast Eternals and seems a little overwhelmed with choosing models to actually invest time in painting them. So the Lord Imperitant is a really cool looking model and I noticed him showing up in a few lists, but I'd like some more solid reasons for recommending him. 

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24 minutes ago, Maogrim said:

I extend my humble greetings to Sigmar's chosen warriors!

Would someone be so kind as to explain to me what the Lord Imperitant is good for or against? A friend of mine just bought a pretty huge collection of Stormcast Eternals and seems a little overwhelmed with choosing models to actually invest time in painting them. So the Lord Imperitant is a really cool looking model and I noticed him showing up in a few lists, but I'd like some more solid reasons for recommending him. 

The main reason you see him is he lets Thunderstrike units with 3 Wounds or less that are deep striking via Scions of the Storm arrive more than 7" away instead of the usual more than 9". This is best used with Annihilators to ensure their charge from the heavens for a super nasty and very reliable alpha strike combo. Even outside of that, he's a solid hero in his own right (he gets to issue a free command each turn!) but mostly he's taken to really unlock the full potential of Annihilators (especially the Meteoric Grandhammer variant.) 

Edited by Jaskier
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Polish Team Championships are taking place this weekend, featuring 20 teams of 5 players. Roughly 70 per cent of the teams have included a Stormcast army, which makes it the most popular faction. Around half of the lists are heavily into Stormdrake Guards - I counted almost 70 Stormdrakes and 8 Knight-Draconis among them.

Edited by feadair
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42 minutes ago, feadair said:

Polish Team Championships are taking place this weekend, featuring 20 teams of 5 players. Roughly 70 per cent of the teams have included a Stormcast army, which makes it the most popular faction. Around half of the lists are heavily into Stormdrake Guards - I counted almost 70 Stormdrakes and 8 Knight-Draconis among them.

The Stormcast lists from the two teams that went 4-0 and made the finals are:

Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals

- Stormhost: Astral Templars

- Grand Strategy: Beast Master

- Triumphs: Inspired

 

Leaders

Knight-Draconis (300)*

- General

- Command Trait: Skilled Leader 

- Artefact: Mirrorshield 

- Mount Trait: Thunderous Presence

 

Battleline

4 x Stormdrake Guard (680)*

- Drakerider's Lance

- Reinforced x 1

2 x Stormdrake Guard (340)*

- Drakerider's Lance

2 x Stormdrake Guard (340)*

- Drakerider's Warblade

2 x Stormdrake Guard (340)*

- Drakerider's Warblade

 

Core Battalions

*Battle Regiment

Additional Enhancements

Holy Command: Steadfast March

Total: 2000 / 2000

 

Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals

- Stormhost: Hammers of Sigmar

- Grand Strategy: Dominating Presence

- Triumphs: Inspired

 

Leaders

Knight-Draconis (300)*

- General

- Command Trait: Battle-lust

- Artefact: Drakescale Armour

- Mount Trait: Celestial Instincts

Lord-Commander Bastian Carthalos (300)*

 

Battleline

4 x Stormdrake Guard (680)*

- Drakerider's Lance

- Reinforced x 1

5 x Liberators (115)*

- Heavens-wrought Weapon and Shield

5 x Liberators (115)*

- Heavens-wrought Weapon and Shield

Units

6 x Vanguard-Raptors with Longstrike Crossbows (480)*

- Reinforced x 1

 

Core Battalions

*Battle Regiment

Additional Enhancements

Holy Command: Thunderbolt Volley

Total: 1990 / 2000

 

Edited by feadair
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12 hours ago, Joseph Mackay said:

Why is everyone seemingly so obsessed with named characters having to have a Ward or they’re considered trash?

why isn’t the conversation instead that mortal wounds are a problem (there’s too much of them flying around these days) that needs to be addressed?

Because MWs aren‘t going away anytime soon, so a ward is the only remedy.

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9 hours ago, JackStreicher said:

Because MWs aren‘t going away anytime soon, so a ward is the only remedy.

Wards are just effective health. A 5+ Ward is like having +50% wounds. 

People want Wards on big monsters because the ones without them tend to die quickly and easily, and a Ward is an easy solution. There are many other solutions.

Edited by PJetski
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12 hours ago, feadair said:

Two Hammers of Sigmar armies did well in Clash of Swords in the UK. One went 4-1 and came second, the other lost in the finals. Unfortunately I do not have the lists.

Here is the 4-1 list that came second:

Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals
Stormhost: Hammers of Sigmar
Mortal Realm: Ghur
Grand Strategy: Beast Master
Triumphs:
Leaders
Knight-Draconis(300)
- General
Command Trait: Battle-lust
Artefact: Mirrorshield
- Mount Trait: Celestial Instincts
Battleline
4 × Stormdrake Guard (680)
Drakerider's Lance
Reinforced x 1
2 × Stormdrake Guard (340)
- Drakerider's Lance
2 × Stormdrake Guard (340)
- Drakerider's Lance
2 × Stormdrake Guard (340)
Drakerider's Lance
Core Battalions
*Battle Regiment

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17 hours ago, feadair said:

The Stormcast lists from the two teams that went 4-0 and made the finals are:

 

Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals

- Stormhost: Astral Templars

- Grand Strategy: Beast Master

- Triumphs: Inspired

 

Leaders

Knight-Draconis (300)*

- General

- Command Trait: Skilled Leader 

- Artefact: Mirrorshield 

- Mount Trait: Thunderous Presence

 

Battleline

4 x Stormdrake Guard (680)*

- Drakerider's Lance

- Reinforced x 1

2 x Stormdrake Guard (340)*

- Drakerider's Lance

2 x Stormdrake Guard (340)*

- Drakerider's Warblade

2 x Stormdrake Guard (340)*

- Drakerider's Warblade

 

Core Battalions

*Battle Regiment

Additional Enhancements

Holy Command: Steadfast March

Total: 2000 / 2000

 

Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals

- Stormhost: Hammers of Sigmar

- Grand Strategy: Dominating Presence

- Triumphs: Inspired

 

Leaders

Knight-Draconis (300)*

- General

- Command Trait: Battle-lust

- Artefact: Drakescale Armour

- Mount Trait: Celestial Instincts

Lord-Commander Bastian Carthalos (300)*

 

Battleline

4 x Stormdrake Guard (680)*

- Drakerider's Lance

- Reinforced x 1

5 x Liberators (115)*

- Heavens-wrought Weapon and Shield

5 x Liberators (115)*

- Heavens-wrought Weapon and Shield

Units

6 x Vanguard-Raptors with Longstrike Crossbows (480)*

- Reinforced x 1

 

Core Battalions

*Battle Regiment

Additional Enhancements

Holy Command: Thunderbolt Volley

Total: 1990 / 2000

 

One more list from Poland, this from the team that ended up coming second on points:

Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals

- Stormhost: Celestial Vindicators

- Mortal Realm: Ghyran

- Grand Strategy: Beast Master

- Triumphs: Inspired

 

Leaders

Knight-Draconis (300)*

- General

- Command Trait: Battle-lust

- Artefact: Drakescale Armour

- Mount Trait: Celestial Instincts

 

Battleline

2 x Stormdrake Guard (340)*

- Drakerider's Lance

2 x Stormdrake Guard (340)*

- Drakerider's Lance

4 x Stormdrake Guard (680)*

- Drakerider's Lance

- Reinforced x 1

Units

1 x Stormdrake Guard - Single (170)*

- Drakerider's Lance

20 x Skinks (150)*

- Boltspitters Celestite Daggers & Star Bucklers

- Allies

- Reinforced x 1

 

Core Battalions

*Battle Regiment

Additional Enhancements

Holy Command: Steadfast March

Total: 1980 / 2000

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4 hours ago, PJetski said:

Wards are just effective health. A 5+ Ward is like having +50% wounds. 

People want Wards on big monsters because the ones without them tend to die quickly and easily, and a Ward is an easy solution. There are many other solutions.

Isn't a 5+ ward more like 33% more health? 

If I do the math right, you only have 2/6 (or 1/3) chance to roll 5+? 

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Just now, Geoffreyvt said:

Isn't a 5+ ward more like 33% more health? 

If I do the math right, you only have 2/6 (or 1/3) chance to roll 5+? 

it's 50% when you think in terms of how much damage you must inflict to kill something:

stardrake has 18 wounds, he's got a 5+ ward, to kill it (on average) you must now inflict 27 wounds because the ward will save a third of them (so 9) -> the stardrake has gained +50% effective wounds

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29 minutes ago, Marcvs said:

it's 50% when you think in terms of how much damage you must inflict to kill something:

stardrake has 18 wounds, he's got a 5+ ward, to kill it (on average) you must now inflict 27 wounds because the ward will save a third of them (so 9) -> the stardrake has gained +50% effective wounds

EDIT - woken up, now I get you!😜

 

Edited by AdamR
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7 hours ago, feadair said:

One final tidbit of information from the Polish Team Championships: All of the four top teams included a Stormcast army. Three of them played a Knight-Draconis and 10 Stormdrakes, and one played a Knight-Draconis and 9 Stormdrakes. 

i get they want to win, but its just so so boring! 

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2 minutes ago, papary said:

i get they want to win, but its just so so boring! 

well, at the last 6 nations there were 4 garants army out of six (duh) teams, same for tzeentch and lumineth. That's just how competitive team events work, there's only a handful of allegiances which are generally picked, I am happy that stormcast got some time in the sun this time -at the 6 nations, so post-BT but pre-stormdrakes, there was 1 SCE list out of 6 teams.

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46 minutes ago, papary said:

i get they want to win, but its just so so boring! 

Also, I imagine it could be quite a fun army to play. Lots of movement, active in all phases and so on. (I have never played an all Stormdrakes list, so I could be totally wrong.)

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44 minutes ago, Talas said:

Is it just me or do people get more angry than usual when losing againts Stormcasts? I have a Bonereaper army too and in the height of the Petrifex OP ability, people were much more gracious when losing back then.

Because Stormcast don't beat your head in with anything even remotely resembling a combo, or requiring game knowledge, or necessarily even skill. SCE units that are good tend to be tuned purely on warscroll stats and abilities because the allegiance has historically been limited and weak. Just a boring big stat steamroller. At least when you lose to a wombo combo it feels like 'maybe if I knew more about this I could do something about it', even if it's mostly illusory. You see the same rage in 40k whenever Space Marines are too good (although they are vastly more complex now than most other stuff in that game).

They are also by far the most hated faction of the game and stand as a physical reminder of the jump from WHFB to Sigmar. Whether this is a factor will vary based on the individual player.

But with that said- at the time they were good Petrifex were hated as well for the same reason, so in all likelihood it was probably just a sampling bias.

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