AoS 3.0 - Ogor Mawtribes Discussion

[Lord Krungharr]

Practice for 3k tournament this weekend vs Sons Of Behemat w Kragnos/taker tribe w kraken eater -1 to hit/ 3 Gatebreakers/1 Mancrusher.   I’m gonna run Boulderhead w Beastmaster strategy w:

Icebrow Hunter (General, Lord Of Beasts)

5 FLoSH w all metalcruncher, 1 w brand of the Svard, 1 w maybe Seed of Rebirth?   Healing is good right?

2 Slaughtermasters (ribcracker, greasy deluge)

4x2 frost sabres for battle line

ironblaster

I think I can do a Warlord and Battle Regiment with this and out drop the giants.   Guess it depends on the mission who I want to go first.  But the hunter is there just for CPs of course.

Idea being to cram a giant or two w multiple Stonehorns at once to cripple them hard in the charge phase.  

Guess I could ditch the slaughtermasters and ironblaster for a HoTT but the cauldron pluckings are so nice sometimes.    

Will report a pictures after the battle.  Might be on my living room rug but I’ll try to get a real table at the game store if I can.  

[Lord Krungharr]

Well got the game in.  Didn’t take too long.   Mission was first blood.  Turned out I had 7 drops for the Ogors to 6 for the SoBs.  Ogors had to go first.   

I used ferocious advance and captured all 3 objectives for 6 points.  Ironblaster failed to wound.  

Giants stormed forth to capture all those objectives and scored Conquer. So 6 points answered.  They killed no Stonehorns outright but 3 were heavily wounded and bracketed.  

Ogors got turn 2 Priority, going for Break the Ranks (kill a battleline) and two more Stonehorns crashed into the kraken eater and adjacent mancrusher.  Killed the mancrusher with decent trampling charges and a stomp monster action.   No objectives scored however as all giants still at least about half strength or more.  Only one stonehorn died though. 

Then bottom of turn 2 Giants declare Bring it Down and Kragnos , who had been hanging back a bit turn 1, rolled up, charged, and did 24 MW on the charge to the Svard Stonehorn who had healed with hero action to 5 wounds.  The center Stonehorn got Bouldered by a gatebreaker and clobbered.  Decided it was over then. 

I think I could have held back the Stonehorns hoping for a more impressive mass charge onto a single giant but then I’d be lacking any early  objective points.   Let’s say 9-12 MW from 3 tramples, a stomp for maybe 2 more, 3 metal crunchers for another 9-10....so maybe I could have killed off one megagargant after the frostlord could strike.  But the model count of one taker tribe mega is three Stonehorns worth.  Tough matchup no matter what.  

Sorry it was on my carpet  and poorly lit   

Fun stuff though!

[Charleston]

Okay, first random team tournament with BCR's/Mawtribes finished today. Came to a 10th place after 2 loses and 1 win. To put it short: Playing defense in AoS 3.0 leads to quite fast defeat.

Game 1 was together with FEC against Tzeentch (#1 placement at the end of the day) and Cities (Tempest Eye Irondrake List). I hesitated way too long to charge the Horrors/Dwarfs and lost both Stonehorns to shooting. Also a huge load of bad rolls included.

Game 2 was with my buddies Seraphon (Kroak + 3x5 saurus guard) against Fyreslayers and Sylvaneth. Well, hesitated once again to advance into the Hearthguard, therefore had to fight on their terms and without charge bonus and lost my SH Beastriders to unnecessary combat. The FL on SH eradicated the HEarthguard afterwards and was the big point of realisation how much we lost through hesitating too much.

Game 3 I played with the Tempest Eye list from Game 1 against Sylvaneth from Game 2 and FEC from Game 1. This time I commited more into advancing and getting into the opponent faster. The Dwarves kept the FEC at bay who tried to get out objectives (Mission from page 42 with scoring requires to "load up" objectives before burning them down for VP) while I way able to get my Monsters into position to score some VP and Slay a huge load of Sylvaneth including Allarielle. It was nuts and fun. At the end of turn 2 we burned all 3 of our objectives for 6CP and went full into gamble mode for the double turn. We got the turn and therefore our opponents didn't gain any advantage from Seismic Shift. 

At the end of the say I learnt so much about the game and the edition (and my ogres) and hat really a load of fun. Every single player was a joy to play with and the atmosphere was always relaxed. The current edition has many major design flaws to be honest: Way too many 2+ rolls, actions/options that are a mess to keep track of, a way too high difference between unusable garbage units and top tier picks, and many of them showed during the day. GW's cheap sell-driven-balance approach reached a new peak this edition and I really hope for some change in the future, be it GW coming to their minds, the community writing a new community-GHB/FAQ or just a contesting system becoming more popular.

Also I learnt how great Ogors are for a fun "Just charge and enjoy the game" approach. Really, it is nice when your opponent fear your charge and it is not vice versa

[Lord Krungharr]

I agree, while durable, the ABCs of 3.0 for Ogors might be Always Be Charging.  The Trampling is too good.  Wish we had a retreat and charge thing.

[Enokisawesome]

I'm looking to start a BCR army and have: 3x SC boxes, tyrant, 6 gluttons, and a scrap launcher (some 2nd hand prepainted). Anyone got some good 1k and 2k lists based on this? 

Two BCR boxes aren't built yet so I can build them however (or magnetize if that's an option?). The other is already built as a Huskard on Thundertusk (but I could probably blag it as anything). 

[Charleston]

Welcome at Mawtribe Corner @Enokisawesome! Sounds like a solid base for a Mawtribe/BCR Army!

As for the SC!-Boxes:

Stonehorns(SH) are the prefered Meele Mayham choice due to their awesome profile and durability. A Frostlord on top is the optional choice for a sturdy brawler that can be used also solo. The Husskard on SH has less output and can survive less damage due to the 4+ save, but is still a nice pick due to the lower price point and his Command Ability that can turn mournfangs on charge in to a really devastating force.

Thundertusks are more fragile as they lack the 5+ ward. Instead they bring some neat utility, keep the awesome charge bonus, are cheap and can deal some mortal wounds on range. The Husskard is here the best option, simply due to the awesomeness of beeing a priest. Also I was told once that the Frostlord on TT is getting more and more played. I for my own only own a single TT which is assembled as a beastrider (so battleline) and it never really shined outside beeing a neat way of grabbing objectives. But my guts tell me that this changes when you have 2-3 of them, especially when one is a husskard. 

As for mournfangs: In 2.0 we had access to the awesome Eurlbad Battalion which made the small weapons and fists the superior choice due to more MW triggers. But this is over now. Right now with all the new gimmicks of 3.0 I really prefer gargant hackers because we can up them to 3+/3+ easily, and they bring Rend and 3 Damage. 

 

Edit: From my last experience it is also great to have the Arcane Tome Artifact to bring a Wizzard. Flaming Weapon, Levitate, Mystic Shield, in despair even an Arcane Bolt, all are great options! Also I really like the Emerald Lifeswarm and will bring it more often to the table in this edition. Making your durable monster even more durable is awesome, and healing 2D3 wounds the turn you summon the Spell is worth the points. As for prayers, I also can only recommend to consider Heal and to keep an eye on the generic prayers as a 6+ ward is nice and situational hero sniping for free also never hurts. 

Edited August 16, 2021 by Charleston

[Enokisawesome]

Thanks @Charleston! I'd heard some of this wisdom before and wasn't sure if it held true for 3.0 I was eyeing these lads up for the Eurlbad last edition. 

Any recommended lists based on what I have? I've played with points but not factored in wizards and endless spells. Mostly looking at Boulderhead if I have two heroes, or the Mournfang one if I only have one hero (in a one drop battalion). But I think I'd need to have no tribe to get the generic tone artifact? 

Also any experience in magnetizing the heroes for flexibility in lists? 

[EldritchX]

3 hours ago, Enokisawesome said:

Thanks @Charleston! I'd heard some of this wisdom before and wasn't sure if it held true for 3.0 I was eyeing these lads up for the Eurlbad last edition. 

Any recommended lists based on what I have? I've played with points but not factored in wizards and endless spells. Mostly looking at Boulderhead if I have two heroes, or the Mournfang one if I only have one hero (in a one drop battalion). But I think I'd need to have no tribe to get the generic tone artifact? 

Also any experience in magnetizing the heroes for flexibility in lists? 

I wouldn't play a FLoTT if you don't have a couple of non-monster heroes, because it only shines when you put an Amulet of Destiny on it, and no-tribe isn't very good at 2k. Based on what you have, Boulderhead is probably the best choice by far. If you can proxy or rebuild the HoTT, you can bring 3 heroes on SH with Metalcruncher, and use the Mournfangs as battleline. It's a 3-drop list with strong melee damage and is fairly tough.

[Schauer]

Got another game in with the below list. Same Skaven opponent as last time though they changed up their list a little bit

FLoSH
MT: Metalcruncher

HoTT - Command Entourage
MT:Rimefrost
All Thunderbellies Stuff
Prayer: Keening Gale

Slaughtermaster - Command Entourage
-Ribcracker

Butcher - Command Entourage
-Bloodfeast

3 Sets of 4 Mournfang all with Gargant Hackers all underneath the battalion that allows them to ignore the 4 monster abilities

 

Skaven opted to go first (my 7 drops arent beating anyone anytime soon) and while they got a few shots off I was able to limit the damage and did well withstanding their spells. They did drop the bridge endless spell down though in a good spot to block a massive charge angle and I just could not dispel it to save my life. 

 

It didnt matter too much though as my turn 1 I was able to clear the board and charge into his rats and do some respectable damage. I then got double turn and virtually secured the victory at that point as I cleaned house on all but one of his leaders. 

 

One issue I did have this game was that I had a hard time comboing off abilities and getting my spells to go off, which sortve delayed this game from a turn 2/3 board clear into a game that played out to turn 4 despite the lead. I need a few more games in with it before deciding on changing anything up but I am feeling good about thunderbellies at the moment and their ability to clear the board with run+charge on both flanks

 

Also we had a mawtribe army top a GT this past weekend playing bloodgullet. Looks like things are on the up for the faction in terms of relative power of non-boulderhead lists.
 

Edited August 17, 2021 by Schauer

[HostilSpike]

2 hours ago, Schauer said:

Got another game in with the below list. Same Skaven opponent as last time though they changed up their list a little bit

FLoSH
MT: Metalcruncher

HoTT - Command Entourage
MT:Rimefrost
All Thunderbellies Stuff
Prayer: Keening Gale

Slaughtermaster - Command Entourage
-Ribcracker

Butcher - Command Entourage
-Bloodfeast

3 Sets of 4 Mournfang all with Gargant Hackers all underneath the battalion that allows them to ignore the 4 monster abilities

 

Skaven opted to go first (my 7 drops arent beating anyone anytime soon) and while they got a few shots off I was able to limit the damage and did well withstanding their spells. They did drop the bridge endless spell down though in a good spot to block a massive charge angle and I just could not dispel it to save my life. 

 

It didnt matter too much though as my turn 1 I was able to clear the board and charge into his rats and do some respectable damage. I then got double turn and virtually secured the victory at that point as I cleaned house on all but one of his leaders. 

 

One issue I did have this game was that I had a hard time comboing off abilities and getting my spells to go off, which sortve delayed this game from a turn 2/3 board clear into a game that played out to turn 4 despite the lead. I need a few more games in with it before deciding on changing anything up but I am feeling good about thunderbellies at the moment and their ability to clear the board with run+charge on both flanks

 

Also we had a mawtribe army top a GT this past weekend playing bloodgullet. Looks like things are on the up for the faction in terms of relative power of non-boulderhead lists.
 

I was thinking of trying a similar list but splitting one of the 4s of Mournfang into two 2s with fist weapons and using a Warlord Battalion to get the 5+ Ward Amulet on the HoTT for a bit more staying power.

[Schauer]

17 hours ago, HostilSpike said:

I was thinking of trying a similar list but splitting one of the 4s of Mournfang into two 2s with fist weapons and using a Warlord Battalion to get the 5+ Ward Amulet on the HoTT for a bit more staying power.

its not a bad idea. Part of me still wants to toy with switching the frostlord to a huskard and if I did that I would spend the extra enhancement on the amulet as opposed to the extra mount trait. Reason being for the switch is the chance to give a unit of mournfang 16 3 damage 3/3/-1 attacks if they charged which makes up for the loss of the frost spear

[HostilSpike]

19 minutes ago, Schauer said:

its not a bad idea. Part of me still wants to toy with switching the frostlord to a huskard and if I did that I would spend the extra enhancement on the amulet as opposed to the extra mount trait. Reason being for the switch is the chance to give a unit of mournfang 16 3 damage 3/3/-1 attacks if they charged which makes up for the loss of the frost spear

It's probably worth keeping in mind that the HoSH is significantly less survivable than a FLoSH due to the worse save.

Assuming no buffs to hit (so Mournfang are 4/3/-1) a round with the Frostspear deals equivalent average damage to the extra damage granted by Linebreakers on a unit of 4 Mournfang but doesn't require the opportunity cost of a Command Point.

 

[Schauer]

1 hour ago, HostilSpike said:

It's probably worth keeping in mind that the HoSH is significantly less survivable than a FLoSH due to the worse save.

Assuming no buffs to hit (so Mournfang are 4/3/-1) a round with the Frostspear deals equivalent average damage to the extra damage granted by Linebreakers on a unit of 4 Mournfang but doesn't require the opportunity cost of a Command Point.

 

There are some buffs that can be granted that you cannot give the stonehorns that makes it an advisable choice in Bloodfeast + Rip & Tear. You need at least one of them active for the damage to be better but both are easy to accomplish (for rip and tear you can plink the enemy unit with the vulture pretty reliably) 

 

 

It's true that for these numbers you need to shell out command points but I also think if there is an army that should capitalize off the aggressive usage of command points its ogors. Also worth noting that if playing this way you have to ensure that you can consistently be the one charging and you need one or both of blood feast or rip and tear active. A frostlord on stonehorn is probably a better hedge for games in which you're put on the back foot instead of being the aggressor so its why I would likely bring that set up to a tournament but I think if a person got enough practice in on a list like this that this has the better potential. 

 

At the very least what both loadouts provide is a tricky situation for the opponent where they need to ensure they have enough screen for not only the straight away to prevent the stonehorn from running it down but also the flanks now too and with the way point costs have gone there is less chaff around. A castle is likely the best defense against it but if your opponent is resorting to castling they are also conceding a lot of board to you 

 

 

 

Edited August 18, 2021 by Schauer

[HostilSpike]

2 hours ago, Schauer said:

There are some buffs that can be granted that you cannot give the stonehorns that makes it an advisable choice in Bloodfeast + Rip & Tear. You need at least one of them active for the damage to be better but both are easy to accomplish (for rip and tear you can plink the enemy unit with the vulture pretty reliably) 

 

 

It's true that for these numbers you need to shell out command points but I also think if there is an army that should capitalize off the aggressive usage of command points its ogors. Also worth noting that if playing this way you have to ensure that you can consistently be the one charging and you need one or both of blood feast or rip and tear active. A frostlord on stonehorn is probably a better hedge for games in which you're put on the back foot instead of being the aggressor so its why I would likely bring that set up to a tournament but I think if a person got enough practice in on a list like this that this has the better potential. 

 

At the very least what both loadouts provide is a tricky situation for the opponent where they need to ensure they have enough screen for not only the straight away to prevent the stonehorn from running it down but also the flanks now too and with the way point costs have gone there is less chaff around. A castle is likely the best defense against it but if your opponent is resorting to castling they are also conceding a lot of board to you 

 

Firstly as someone who loves theory crafting I appreciate the addition of the graph to clearly show the damage numbers.  I wasn't really talking about overall output though, simply the effectiveness of subbing out a FLoSH for a HoSH in the list.

The base effectiveness of the Mournfang doesn't really change between the two, all you are gaining is Linebreakers at the cost of the Frostspear, +1 Wound, +1 Save, +1 Bravery (relevant due to Heroic recovery) and +1 to Wound on your Punches and Kicks. It just doesn't seem worth the downgrade unless you're really starved for points.

Unless I did the maths wrong (which is always possible 😅) the attacks with the Frostspear on average equate to the same damage as a single use if Linebreakers on 4 Mournfang but obviously is much less situational. 

I've yet to actually get Thunderbellies on the table due to covid and have always been slightly curious about Rip and Tear; does it activate against a unit of single wound models who have lost a model or does it require an injured multi-wound model?

[Schauer]

45 minutes ago, HostilSpike said:

 

Firstly as someone who loves theory crafting I appreciate the addition of the graph to clearly show the damage numbers.  I wasn't really talking about overall output though, simply the effectiveness of subbing out a FLoSH for a HoSH in the list.

The base effectiveness of the Mournfang doesn't really change between the two, all you are gaining is Linebreakers at the cost of the Frostspear, +1 Wound, +1 Save, +1 Bravery (relevant due to Heroic recovery) and +1 to Wound on your Punches and Kicks. It just doesn't seem worth the downgrade unless you're really starved for points.

Unless I did the maths wrong (which is always possible 😅) the attacks with the Frostspear on average equate to the same damage as a single use if Linebreakers on 4 Mournfang but obviously is much less situational. 

I've yet to actually get Thunderbellies on the table due to covid and have always been slightly curious about Rip and Tear; does it activate against a unit of single wound models who have lost a model or does it require an injured multi-wound model?

Not entirely sure come to think of it. You have to select a unit that has wounds allocated to it . Question becomes does the unit count as having wounds allocated to it if the models the wounds allocate to die upon receiving it. I would imagine it would work still but I guess I would have to check to see how the core rules word allocating wounds. The only models I've used it on so far are multi-wounders so I havent run into this yet

[EldritchX]

On 8/19/2021 at 2:16 AM, HostilSpike said:

 

Firstly as someone who loves theory crafting I appreciate the addition of the graph to clearly show the damage numbers.  I wasn't really talking about overall output though, simply the effectiveness of subbing out a FLoSH for a HoSH in the list.

The base effectiveness of the Mournfang doesn't really change between the two, all you are gaining is Linebreakers at the cost of the Frostspear, +1 Wound, +1 Save, +1 Bravery (relevant due to Heroic recovery) and +1 to Wound on your Punches and Kicks. It just doesn't seem worth the downgrade unless you're really starved for points.

Unless I did the maths wrong (which is always possible 😅) the attacks with the Frostspear on average equate to the same damage as a single use if Linebreakers on 4 Mournfang but obviously is much less situational. 

I've yet to actually get Thunderbellies on the table due to covid and have always been slightly curious about Rip and Tear; does it activate against a unit of single wound models who have lost a model or does it require an injured multi-wound model?

You don't have to be "starved for points" for the HoTT to be a good value proposition. 90 points is over 20% less. And you're also gaining a Vulture.

[Lord Krungharr]

I have been wanting to try out the HoTT and use Curse.  That could help Mournfangs be more like the old Eurlbad vs 1 unit anyways.  Might be kinda neat to run like 3 HoTT and dominate with prayers, take Bloodgullet too and toss out 6 or more spells per turn.  Give the Ogors a busy hero phase for a change.  

[HostilSpike]

8 hours ago, EldritchX said:

You don't have to be "starved for points" for the HoTT to be a good value proposition. 90 points is over 20% less. And you're also gaining a Vulture.

But 90 points doesn't buy you anything worthwhile in our battletome which is what I meant about being starved for points to use one.

I'm probably just being close minded though as I only ever saw HoSH as a battalion tax in 2.0 and now they don't even have that niche.

[EldritchX]

16 hours ago, HostilSpike said:

But 90 points doesn't buy you anything worthwhile in our battletome which is what I meant about being starved for points to use one.

I'm probably just being close minded though as I only ever saw HoSH as a battalion tax in 2.0 and now they don't even have that niche.

You can't look at it in isolation. If you're at ~1910 points with just the one HoSH, then sure, the best thing to do is probably upgrade to a FLoSH. There are many occasions where you might be at ~1960 points with a FLoSH and then dropping to a HoSH may allow you to afford an extra Butcher, etc.

Another possibility is just to leverage the HoSH's cheapness to max out on Metalcruncher. A Hunter-led Boulderhead list can squeeze in 5 HoSH, for example.

[HostilSpike]

On 8/21/2021 at 4:10 PM, EldritchX said:

You can't look at it in isolation. If you're at ~1910 points with just the one HoSH, then sure, the best thing to do is probably upgrade to a FLoSH. There are many occasions where you might be at ~1960 points with a FLoSH and then dropping to a HoSH may allow you to afford an extra Butcher, etc.

Another possibility is just to leverage the HoSH's cheapness to max out on Metalcruncher. A Hunter-led Boulderhead list can squeeze in 5 HoSH, for example.

Seems like we're in agreement in everything except terminology. If I was at 1960 but wanting to squeeze in a wizard I'd consider myself starved for points 😅

[Magnus The Blue]

Had my first game with my Underguts in AoS 3 last night (been playing my way through all my armies since AoS3 dropped) and they are still a force to be reckoned with.

I used

Tyrant (General with Scars, Longstrider, Trophy Rack)

Firebelly (Ash Cloud)

FLoSH (Mental Cruncher, 

4,4,8 Lead Belchers

4 Iron Blasters

Hold the line, Hunters in the Heartlands (all the battleline), Command Entourage (Artefact enhancement, all the heros) , Bloodthirsty.

I'll do a full battle report when I get a chance, but some key take-homes:

-FLoSH is a beast (no one is suprised), he took down a good 800 points of stuff without breaking a sweat.  With mystic shield and all out defence he can tank almost anyting while dishing out pain left right and centre.

-Lead belchers are strong.  The threat of Unleashing hell with the unit of 8 is a great way to control the board, equally no one want to be stuck in combat with them where you can dump out 8D6 3+/3+/-1 shots (with all out attack),  the units of 4 can quickly clear away chaff and they are still solid in combat.

The Ironblasters are still very swingy but with more monsters about means they won't struggle to find Trophy Rack friendly targets and 8 * 3+/2+/-2/D6 shots scares anything without a 1+ save (although these are more common).   The 24" range also means you can usually switch targets effectively if your opponent pops all out defence against your first pair of shots.

 

[Oldhat]

How did the Firebelly do? Curious why you didn't bring any Butchers too.

[Kadeton]

I played my Beastclaws against Lumineth this week. Still very strong this edition - I got a bit lucky with Frostlords surviving the hails of Sentinel shots on 2-3 wounds and then healing up to fight on. Also, one of them went on a Monstrous Rampage and knocked over the Shrine, killing the Cathallar general who was hiding inside, after which the Lumineth army rapidly fell apart. Very satisfying!

At the moment I'm still running Boulderhead for triple Metalcrunchers, but I'm increasingly tempted to shift to Bloodgullet. The Splatter-Cleaver's healing is just crazy, and I'd swap my HoSH for a HoTT. Bringing a Butcher would be great. Apparently I should really bring Hrothgorn as well. Anyone tried Beastclaws focusing on a healing build for brawling over objectives?

[HostilSpike]

Well multiple Metalrunchers is (understandably) gone but no duplicate traits is game wide now.

We also lost Troggoth Hag as an ally as she's 405 points now.

[Schauer]

Rime Shroud got a bit better but yeah the loss of metalcruncher really dampens the viability of boulderhead now. 

 

Also not because we lost the hag but i really dont like these point costs ending in 5s. Feels like a gotcha way of balancing the game