bonzai Posted September 14, 2021 Share Posted September 14, 2021 Odd question... can a Drakkfoot Wurrgog even use his ward save against self inflicted wounds caused by mask? The rule says "attacks" so I am thinking that they do, but italso means that ward saves can be taken against it by my opponents as well. Which also leads me to believe that wounds caused by spells don't count for the Drakkfoot rule either...which is a bummer, as how else were Drakkfoot dealing mortal wounds? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Belmail Posted September 14, 2021 Share Posted September 14, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, bonzai said: Odd question... can a Drakkfoot Wurrgog even use his ward save against self inflicted wounds caused by mask? The rule says "attacks" so I am thinking that they do, but italso means that ward saves can be taken against it by my opponents as well. Which also leads me to believe that wounds caused by spells don't count for the Drakkfoot rule either...which is a bummer, as how else were Drakkfoot dealing mortal wounds? Attacks are only made with range or melee weapon profiles. Abilities, like the laser, are not attacks. Edited September 14, 2021 by Belmail Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonzai Posted September 14, 2021 Share Posted September 14, 2021 9 minutes ago, Belmail said: Attacks are only made with range or melee weapon profiles. Abilities, like the laser, are not attacks. Yup, figured as much. So it's really no better than it was before, as only Icebone deals mortal wounds off of actual attacks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PlasticCraic Posted September 14, 2021 Share Posted September 14, 2021 6 hours ago, AlmGandix3 said: Ah I skipped over that one since it's savage boss only Yeah he's almost worth taking for that alone imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yargar Posted September 14, 2021 Share Posted September 14, 2021 (edited) I wonder if it would be beneficial to run more then one Savage Big Boss? He is only 65 point now. Edited September 15, 2021 by Yargar 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shirtripper Posted September 15, 2021 Share Posted September 15, 2021 2 hours ago, Yargar said: I wonder if it would be beneficial to run more then one Savage Bog Boss? He is only 65 point now. I'm going to run 6 in Icebonez and abandon sanity. The idea being that if you think of them less as heroes and more as a 390 point unit whose models pile-in individually and end up with the following attack profile: 36A/3/3/-1/2 that deal 2 MWs on 6s to wound in Icebonez. And then they can let another unit pile in and fight after that. 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zappgrot Posted September 15, 2021 Share Posted September 15, 2021 On 9/12/2021 at 4:31 AM, swarmofseals said: also @bonzai although not quoting you This is a bit of speculation on my part, albeit backed up by data. I think that GW is trying to be very careful with shooting in 3.0 given how shooting heavy the meta was in late 2.0 and the added power of Unleash Hell. If you look at the 3.0 points costs vs. the 2.0 points costs, shooting units went up more on average than melee units did. I calculate the mathhammer for a lot of units, and "par" for a shooting unit in 2.0 was around WOR (same stat as what I used to call WDR) of .07-.08 whereas now par is around .05 for shooting units. These numbers are consistent across the new tomes as well. Artillery units and hybrid melee units are lower of course. There's also been some movement away from buffs that work on both melee and ranged. A good example of this is the most recent DoK tome, which made most of the buffs melee only. Based on all of this I think GW probably wants shooting to be part of the competitive meta, but not dominant and certainly not to the exclusion of other playstyles. A lot of you are discussing the removal of buffs to scale arrowboys and the gating of the third ranged attack behind a subfaction. I haven't seen much discussion (may have missed it) of the fact that arrowboys have +1 melee attack now. GW has shifted them from basically a pure ranged unit to a hybrid unit. Let's compare 10 Icebone arrowboys to 10 Icebone orruks with chompas, using my WOR (weighted offensive rating) and WDR (weighted defensive rating) formulas. Both are measures of efficiency. Arrowboys (WOR/WDR): .0653/.1738 Orruks (WOR/WOR CHARGING/WDR): .0727/.0871/.1855 Arrowboys are not that much less efficient than orruks with chompas on both offense and defense. In exchange, they get a bit of ranged attack (.023 WOR vs non monster, .0306 vs monster). It's also worth noting that arrowboys have VERY high defensive efficiency for a ranged unit. Most ranged units have a WDR of .1 or less. Is this a good thing? I have no opinion on that yet. But the idea that arrowboys are straight nerfed and unusable isn't really accurate. @bonzai, I definitely respect your main point. I personally dislike it when a single subfaction defines the optimal playstyle for its faction. Whether the faction rules are bad because they've pushed the faction towards one particular playstyle is a valid argument and I certainly won't argue the point. I had thought you were arguing that the faction is mediocre from a power perspective, which I disagree strongly with. I did notice that you said that boars are a clear winner, but it seemed that you were also suggesting that although the boars are better that they still aren't very good. And again that's where I disagree -- I'm pretty confident that they are a top tier warscroll. It's very possible that I'm wrong but generally until there is a large body of gameplay data available I tend to favor the math. If gw wants to do somethign about the shooting meta. They should look at order. Cause they are by far far far the main problem. The mortal wounds on 6 untis are competative stapels and dominate the order meta. At least where i play. I am up to my ears in snakes and pointy ears. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yargar Posted September 21, 2021 Share Posted September 21, 2021 So, I'll be playing a buddy with his Stormcast Eternals army. We are playing at 2,000 points, and I want to use Shirtrippers idea of the Big Boss. Also, I may change around the battalions I am not sure yet. Army Name: Bonesplitterz Big Boss Army Faction: Orruk Warclans Army Type: Bonesplitterz Subfaction: Icebone Battlepack: Pitched Battles Points Limit: 2000 pts General: Savage Big Boss Grand Strategy: Hold the Line Triumph: Indomitable, Inspired Core Battalions Command Entourage Magnificent Bonus: Triumphs Savage Big Boss (General) Battalion Slot Filled: Commander Battlefield Role: Leader Command Traits: Great Hunter Points Cost: 65 pts Savage Big Boss Battalion Slot Filled: Sub-commander Battlefield Role: Leader Points Cost: 65 pts Savage Big Boss Battalion Slot Filled: Sub-commander Battlefield Role: Leader Points Cost: 65 pts Savage Big Boss Battalion Slot Filled: Sub-commander Battlefield Role: Leader Points Cost: 65 pts Battle Regiment Wurrgog Prophet Battalion Slot Filled: Commander Battlefield Role: Leader Artefacts of Power: Glowin’ Tattooz Spells: Power of the Were-boar Points Cost: 150 pts Savage Boarboys Battalion Slot Filled: Troops Battlefield Role: Battleline Reinforced: Once Points Cost: 280 pts Savage Boarboys Battalion Slot Filled: Troops Battlefield Role: Battleline Points Cost: 140 pts Savage Boarboy Maniaks Battalion Slot Filled: Troops Battlefield Role: Other Reinforced: Once Points Cost: 290 pts Maniak Weirdnob Battalion Slot Filled: Sub-commander Battlefield Role: Leader Mount Traits: Fast ’Un Spells: Glowy Green Tusks Points Cost: 100 pts Savage Boarboy Maniaks Battalion Slot Filled: Troops Battlefield Role: Other Points Cost: 145 pts Hunters of the Heartlands Savage Orruks Battalion Slot Filled: Troops Battlefield Role: Battleline Reinforced: Once Points Cost: 330 pts Savage Big Stabbas Battalion Slot Filled: Troops Battlefield Role: Other Reinforced: Once Points Cost: 160 pts Savage Big Stabbas Battalion Slot Filled: Troops Battlefield Role: Other Points Cost: 80 pts Total Points: 1935 pts Invalid: Created with Warhammer Age of Sigmar: The App 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlmGandix3 Posted September 22, 2021 Share Posted September 22, 2021 @Yargar definitely tell us how it went against the high armor army. I like the big boss chain. Maybe you could seperate the one 10 man maniaks in two 5 man units, due to coherence you would get less attacks in the 10 man one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnus The Blue Posted September 22, 2021 Share Posted September 22, 2021 4 hours ago, AlmGandix3 said: @Yargar definitely tell us how it went against the high armor army. I like the big boss chain. Maybe you could seperate the one 10 man maniaks in two 5 man units, due to coherence you would get less attacks in the 10 man one Coherency is not that bad for smaller oval bases (not so much for Gorgruntas), just run around in two ranks and when you charge you can point the tips of the bases together. Unless your facing something that can snipe specific models you can get at least 9 models into combat (out of 10) while not risking a losing coherency against casualties (basically one model behind the lines at one end of the unit to protect against it). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yargar Posted September 25, 2021 Share Posted September 25, 2021 I finally got my books in this weekend, and I have a question about the command traits. What would be the point of Voice of Da Great Green God? It increases the range of the generals command range. I don't see why this would be good since your leaders in your units can issue commands now. Unless I'm completely over looking something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Underworld40k Posted September 26, 2021 Share Posted September 26, 2021 (edited) On 9/25/2021 at 8:31 PM, Yargar said: I finally got my books in this weekend, and I have a question about the command traits. What would be the point of Voice of Da Great Green God? It increases the range of the generals command range. I don't see why this would be good since your leaders in your units can issue commands now. Unless I'm completely over looking something. Some units don't have champions to issue orders, or some abilities may allow your opponent to snipe a champion out of the unit. Limited admittedly. There may also be scenarios or other things that give a character a command ability that then could be projected further. Edit. Also worth mentioning that with things like the heroic actio that can grant a CP, the gained cp is locked to that character, so if you want to use it to do something like at the double without dipping into your generic everyone can use command points the extra range could be helpful. Edited September 27, 2021 by Underworld40k 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swarmofseals Posted September 28, 2021 Share Posted September 28, 2021 Got a couple of pure Bonesplitterz games in today and had one very decisive victory against deepkin and one very decisive loss against an 18 boltboyz list where I got double turned on the first priority roll. Made some bad mistakes in that game too. Wurrgog staredown ability is so good. Stripped an eidolon from full wounds against deepkin and fully cleared a screen against Kruleboyz on turn 1. That second bit won't come up in many battleplans, but in the 18" ones a pregame move with Great Hunter can get you in range. Another nifty staredown trick is to resolve it before heroic actions so that you can immediately use Heroic Recovery. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yargar Posted September 30, 2021 Share Posted September 30, 2021 What was your list you were running? How did the other units do? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yargar Posted October 9, 2021 Share Posted October 9, 2021 Well, my game got canceled last week, but we are playing on Sunday! The list I wanted to play I am not able to due to my Savage Big Bosses not coming in. This is what I'll be playing, and I'll let everyone know how it goes. Army Name: Bonesplitterz Army Faction: Orruk Warclans Army Type: Bonesplitterz Subfaction: Icebone Battlepack: Pitched Battles Points Limit: 2000 pts General: Wurrgog Prophet Grand Strategy: Hold the Line Triumph: Inspired Core Battalions Battle Regiment Wurrgog Prophet (General) Battalion Slot Filled: Commander Battlefield Role: Leader Command Traits: Master of Magic Spells: Power of the Were-boar Points Cost: 150 pts Wardokk Battalion Slot Filled: Sub-commander Battlefield Role: Leader Spells: Glowy Green Tusks Points Cost: 80 pts Maniak Weirdnob Battalion Slot Filled: Sub-commander Battlefield Role: Leader Mount Traits: Fast ’Un Spells: Glowy Green Tusks Points Cost: 100 pts Savage Orruks Battalion Slot Filled: Troops Battlefield Role: Battleline Reinforced: Once Points Cost: 330 pts Savage Boarboys Battalion Slot Filled: Troops Battlefield Role: Battleline Reinforced: Once Points Cost: 280 pts Savage Boarboys Battalion Slot Filled: Troops Battlefield Role: Battleline Points Cost: 140 pts Savage Boarboy Maniaks Battalion Slot Filled: Troops Battlefield Role: Other Reinforced: Once Points Cost: 290 pts Savage Boarboy Maniaks Battalion Slot Filled: Troops Battlefield Role: Other Points Cost: 145 pts Bonesplitterz Rukk Wurrgog Prophet Battalion Slot Filled: Bonesplitterz Sub-commander Battlefield Role: Leader Artefacts of Power: Glowin’ Tattooz Spells: Gorkamorka’s War Cry Points Cost: 150 pts Savage Big Stabbas Battalion Slot Filled: Bonesplitterz Troops Battlefield Role: Other Reinforced: Once Points Cost: 160 pts Savage Big Stabbas Battalion Slot Filled: Bonesplitterz Troops Battlefield Role: Other Points Cost: 80 pts Savage Big Stabbas Battalion Slot Filled: Bonesplitterz Troops Battlefield Role: Other Points Cost: 80 pts Total Points: 1985 pts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yargar Posted October 11, 2021 Share Posted October 11, 2021 I was able to play my list today, and honestly I'm very happy with how the Bonesplitterz performed. Even with the Stomcast high saves our attack numbers still got through. The icebone is amazing! With the exploding 6s, and the mortal wounds on 6s on wound rolls pairs well. The rend on the boars attacks was strange since we have no rend, so that was nice to have. Now to talk about the units. The Wardok made me sad. I failed all my dances, and than he just stood there. Losing the ability to dance and cast is rough. Wurgog Prophet mask ability is very awesome! I was able to wipe a 5 man unit of Retributors! Just use his heroic recovery afterwards. I won the game, and honestly it felt like a good spot for Bonesplitterz after playing them. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kozokus Posted October 11, 2021 Share Posted October 11, 2021 9 hours ago, Yargar said: I was able to play my list today, and honestly I'm very happy with how the Bonesplitterz performed. Even with the Stomcast high saves our attack numbers still got through. The icebone is amazing! With the exploding 6s, and the mortal wounds on 6s on wound rolls pairs well. The rend on the boars attacks was strange since we have no rend, so that was nice to have. Now to talk about the units. The Wardok made me sad. I failed all my dances, and than he just stood there. Losing the ability to dance and cast is rough. Wurgog Prophet mask ability is very awesome! I was able to wipe a 5 man unit of Retributors! Just use his heroic recovery afterwards. I won the game, and honestly it felt like a good spot for Bonesplitterz after playing them. gooooood! what was your list? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yargar Posted October 11, 2021 Share Posted October 11, 2021 Army Name: Bonesplitterz Army Faction: Orruk Warclans Army Type: Bonesplitterz Subfaction: Icebone Battlepack: Pitched Battles Points Limit: 2000 pts General: Wurrgog Prophet Grand Strategy: Hold the Line Triumph: Inspired Core Battalions Battle Regiment Wurrgog Prophet (General) Battalion Slot Filled: Commander Battlefield Role: Leader Command Traits: Master of Magic Spells: Power of the Were-boar Points Cost: 150 pts Wardokk Battalion Slot Filled: Sub-commander Battlefield Role: Leader Spells: Glowy Green Tusks Points Cost: 80 pts Maniak Weirdnob Battalion Slot Filled: Sub-commander Battlefield Role: Leader Mount Traits: Fast ’Un Spells: Glowy Green Tusks Points Cost: 100 pts Savage Orruks Battalion Slot Filled: Troops Battlefield Role: Battleline Reinforced: Once Points Cost: 330 pts Savage Boarboys Battalion Slot Filled: Troops Battlefield Role: Battleline Reinforced: Once Points Cost: 280 pts Savage Boarboys Battalion Slot Filled: Troops Battlefield Role: Battleline Points Cost: 140 pts Savage Boarboy Maniaks Battalion Slot Filled: Troops Battlefield Role: Other Reinforced: Once Points Cost: 290 pts Savage Boarboy Maniaks Battalion Slot Filled: Troops Battlefield Role: Other Points Cost: 145 pts Bonesplitterz Rukk Wurrgog Prophet Battalion Slot Filled: Bonesplitterz Sub-commander Battlefield Role: Leader Artefacts of Power: Glowin’ Tattooz Spells: Gorkamorka’s War Cry Points Cost: 150 pts Savage Big Stabbas Battalion Slot Filled: Bonesplitterz Troops Battlefield Role: Other Reinforced: Once Points Cost: 160 pts Savage Big Stabbas Battalion Slot Filled: Bonesplitterz Troops Battlefield Role: Other Points Cost: 80 pts Savage Big Stabbas Battalion Slot Filled: Bonesplitterz Troops Battlefield Role: Other Points Cost: 80 pts Total Points: 1985 pts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kozokus Posted October 11, 2021 Share Posted October 11, 2021 3 hours ago, Yargar said: Army Name: Bonesplitterz Army Faction: Orruk Warclans Army Type: Bonesplitterz Subfaction: Icebone Battlepack: Pitched Battles Points Limit: 2000 pts General: Wurrgog Prophet Grand Strategy: Hold the Line Triumph: Inspired Core Battalions Battle Regiment Wurrgog Prophet (General) Battalion Slot Filled: Commander Battlefield Role: Leader Command Traits: Master of Magic Spells: Power of the Were-boar Points Cost: 150 pts Wardokk Battalion Slot Filled: Sub-commander Battlefield Role: Leader Spells: Glowy Green Tusks Points Cost: 80 pts Maniak Weirdnob Battalion Slot Filled: Sub-commander Battlefield Role: Leader Mount Traits: Fast ’Un Spells: Glowy Green Tusks Points Cost: 100 pts Savage Orruks Battalion Slot Filled: Troops Battlefield Role: Battleline Reinforced: Once Points Cost: 330 pts Savage Boarboys Battalion Slot Filled: Troops Battlefield Role: Battleline Reinforced: Once Points Cost: 280 pts Savage Boarboys Battalion Slot Filled: Troops Battlefield Role: Battleline Points Cost: 140 pts Savage Boarboy Maniaks Battalion Slot Filled: Troops Battlefield Role: Other Reinforced: Once Points Cost: 290 pts Savage Boarboy Maniaks Battalion Slot Filled: Troops Battlefield Role: Other Points Cost: 145 pts Bonesplitterz Rukk Wurrgog Prophet Battalion Slot Filled: Bonesplitterz Sub-commander Battlefield Role: Leader Artefacts of Power: Glowin’ Tattooz Spells: Gorkamorka’s War Cry Points Cost: 150 pts Savage Big Stabbas Battalion Slot Filled: Bonesplitterz Troops Battlefield Role: Other Reinforced: Once Points Cost: 160 pts Savage Big Stabbas Battalion Slot Filled: Bonesplitterz Troops Battlefield Role: Other Points Cost: 80 pts Savage Big Stabbas Battalion Slot Filled: Bonesplitterz Troops Battlefield Role: Other Points Cost: 80 pts Total Points: 1985 pts Quite nice. Would you change anything in your list? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yargar Posted October 11, 2021 Share Posted October 11, 2021 Well, I am thinking I might take out the unit of Savage Orruks since they didn't do much. Replace them with a reinforced unit of Arrowboyz. If I did that I would run 3 units of 5 Savage Boarboyz for the battleline. If I had enough points let over maybe put in an endless spell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yargar Posted October 12, 2021 Share Posted October 12, 2021 So, I thinking of my next list to try out. I want to run Icebone with Arrowboys. I think the 40 wound blobs with range attacks is the way to go. When they get into combat they can still shoot, have at least a 6 up save, benefit from exploding 6's, and get mortal wounds on 6's. You still have the great hunter to get everything close. It's a two drop list, and you get the benefit of boars running around. Army Name: Bonesplitterz Icebone Arrowboyz Army Faction: Orruk Warclans Army Type: Bonesplitterz Subfaction: Icebone Battlepack: Pitched Battles Points Limit: 2000 pts General: Savage Big Boss Grand Strategy: Dominating Presence Triumph: Inspired Core Battalions Battle Regiment Maniak Weirdnob Battalion Slot Filled: Sub-commander Battlefield Role: Leader Mount Traits: Fast ’Un Spells: Glowy Green Tusks Points Cost: 100 pts Savage Big Boss (General) Battalion Slot Filled: Commander Battlefield Role: Leader Command Traits: Great Hunter Points Cost: 65 pts Wardokk Battalion Slot Filled: Sub-commander Battlefield Role: Leader Spells: Power of the Were-boar Points Cost: 80 pts Savage Boarboys Battalion Slot Filled: Troops Battlefield Role: Battleline Reinforced: Once Points Cost: 280 pts Savage Boarboys Battalion Slot Filled: Troops Battlefield Role: Battleline Points Cost: 140 pts Savage Boarboys Battalion Slot Filled: Troops Battlefield Role: Battleline Points Cost: 140 pts Savage Boarboy Maniaks Battalion Slot Filled: Troops Battlefield Role: Other Reinforced: Once Points Cost: 290 pts Battle Regiment Wurrgog Prophet Battalion Slot Filled: Commander Battlefield Role: Leader Artefacts of Power: Glowin’ Tattooz Spells: Power of the Were-boar Points Cost: 150 pts Savage Orruk Arrowboys Battalion Slot Filled: Troops Battlefield Role: Other Reinforced: Once Points Cost: 290 pts Savage Orruk Arrowboys Battalion Slot Filled: Troops Battlefield Role: Other Reinforced: Once Points Cost: 290 pts Savage Big Stabbas Battalion Slot Filled: Troops Battlefield Role: Other Points Cost: 80 pts Savage Big Stabbas Battalion Slot Filled: Troops Battlefield Role: Other Points Cost: 80 pts Total Points: 1985 pts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonzai Posted October 14, 2021 Share Posted October 14, 2021 (edited) I am stubbornly sticking with Drakkfoot, even though I fully acknowledge it to be a sub par choice to Icebone. Here is what I will be trying out my next game. Army Faction: Orruk Warclans Army Type: Bonesplitterz Subfaction: Drakkfoot Battlepack: Pitched Battles Points Limit: 2000 pts General: Wurrgog Prophet Grand Strategy: Prized Sorcery Triumph: Bloodthirsty Core Battalions Alpha-Beast Pack Rogue Idol 430 pts Rogue Idol 430 pts Warlord Wurrgog Prophet (General) Traits: Master of Magic. Artefacts of Power: Glowin’ Tattooz Spells: Gorkamorka’s War Cry 150 pts Wurrgog Prophet: Artefacts of Power: Amulet of Destiny, Spells: Power of the Were-boar 150 pts Wardokk: Spells: Squiggly Curse 80 pts Wardokk: Spells: Levitate 80 pts 10 Savage Orruk Morboys 155 pts 10 Savage Orruk Morboys 155 pts Hunters of the Heartlands 10 Savage Orruk Morboys Battalion 155 pts 5 Savage Boarboy Maniaks Battalion 145 pts Other Endless Spells: Emerald Lifeswarm 60 pts Total Points: 1990 pts Game plan is to split the army into 2 main fists. Each will have an Idol, wurrgog, Wardokk, and 10 Moreboys. Lots of synergies to be had between the units. Idols can bé given a 3+ save, +1 to hit, and healing. Wurrgogs can bé given up to +2 to cast, and -1 to hit from the moreboys. Both of them have improved ward saves to survive their mask, and access to healing. Moreboys get Buffed bravery and can have models return via Emerald Lifeswarm. The extra Moreboys unit will grab a close objective, and the Maniacs will go after a longer range one. And that is about it. No where near as good as was before the battletome but should be ok'ish. I will let you guys know how it did once I get a chance to play it. Edited October 14, 2021 by bonzai 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cplhicks Posted October 14, 2021 Share Posted October 14, 2021 Always happy to see someone rocking double idols. 😁 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
broche Posted October 14, 2021 Share Posted October 14, 2021 @bonzai some nice trick. I like the idea of alpha beast pack with rogue idol combined with restless tracker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azdimy Posted October 14, 2021 Share Posted October 14, 2021 I keep thinking double rogue idols are now better in Kruleboyz than in Bonesplitterz where they have our old movement tricks with a spell to move in the hero phase, ability to redeploy anywhere on the board at the beginning of the game and other shenanigans they can do Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.