Bonersplitterz in 3rd Edition

[swarmofseals]

It's such a relief to finally be able to talk about this book XD

@bonzai I think you are underestimating the power of the things that Bonesplitterz got with this tome. I get that there are a lot of little subtractions here and there and that the army will play differently now, but I don't think any of the losses are super impactful while the gains are exactly that.

Whenever I played Bonesplitterz I found myself frustrated by the lack of punch, particularly against anything with a good save. It generally felt like a race where my opponent was just trying to do enough damage before time runs out.

With the new tome, Bonesplitterz not only can do damage but have some of the most efficient damage dealers in the game.

Icebone is HUGE. The fact that the buff is army wide (combined with the 6+ exploding hits) means that every unit is now a threat in melee to any target. The high volume of attacks is great against anything with poor armor and the mortals are great against anything with heavy armor.

Boars (both types) are now extremely efficient on offense and still quite efficient on defense, and the new spell gives another out to dealing with heavy armor.

You can still play a more defensive style army, of course. You can spam a lot of bodies and put 200+ wounds on the board, but now those big blocks of Savage Orruks will deal a lot more damage back.

On top of that there is the new Bonesplitterz WAAAGH which is incredibly powerful.

Don't underestimate the Wurrgog Prophet's staredown ability. The fact that it was an artefact before meant you couldn't take it along with Glowing Tattoos. That's a pretty nice combo now, dealing an average of something like 17 mortal wounds before the Prophet dies.

[Orkmann]

In Aos2 the path to victory for BSP was to control the board, score high in the early rounds and try to tank as long as possible. This was best done with Bonegrinz, which had some very competitive builds, even in the last months of AoS2.

The above strategy is not working anymore, due to the new battleplans and changes in the scoring (cant build up significant early lead) and also because the backbone of the army, the savage boyz went from 300 to 495 points, a 65% increase for a unit of 30. 

The question for the new tome is how can we adapt to AoS3 ? Icebone brings some extra damage, but even with that the damage output is average at best. What really hurts the army is that we have lost all our tricks, like the old Bonegrinz ability and Breath of Gorkamorka. The tactical repertoire has also shrunk with the arrowboyz nerf. The latter is still good in Bonegrinz, but without Icebone there is just no combat output left in the army. In the meantime we can still field a lot of wounds, but we hace lost a lot of tankyness, esp against shooting armies. 

Is there some new build which can still work? Maybe there is, no need to be too negative, but at this point I can't see it.

[Zappgrot]

2 hours ago, swarmofseals said:

It's such a relief to finally be able to talk about this book XD

@bonzai I think you are underestimating the power of the things that Bonesplitterz got with this tome. I get that there are a lot of little subtractions here and there and that the army will play differently now, but I don't think any of the losses are super impactful while the gains are exactly that.

Whenever I played Bonesplitterz I found myself frustrated by the lack of punch, particularly against anything with a good save. It generally felt like a race where my opponent was just trying to do enough damage before time runs out.

With the new tome, Bonesplitterz not only can do damage but have some of the most efficient damage dealers in the game.

Icebone is HUGE. The fact that the buff is army wide (combined with the 6+ exploding hits) means that every unit is now a threat in melee to any target. The high volume of attacks is great against anything with poor armor and the mortals are great against anything with heavy armor.

Boars (both types) are now extremely efficient on offense and still quite efficient on defense, and the new spell gives another out to dealing with heavy armor.

You can still play a more defensive style army, of course. You can spam a lot of bodies and put 200+ wounds on the board, but now those big blocks of Savage Orruks will deal a lot more damage back.

On top of that there is the new Bonesplitterz WAAAGH which is incredibly powerful.

Don't underestimate the Wurrgog Prophet's staredown ability. The fact that it was an artefact before meant you couldn't take it along with Glowing Tattoos. That's a pretty nice combo now, dealing an average of something like 17 mortal wounds before the Prophet dies.

I think Icebone is to huge. To be honest.  It is such an increase in dammage to most units whit armour that it is probably the cause of the ifnatry beeing so exepencive for the bare stats. I would rather have cheapers stuff and more of it then such an effective ability 

[Zappgrot]

9 minutes ago, Orkmann said:

In Aos2 the path to victory for BSP was to control the board, score high in the early rounds and try to tank as long as possible. This was best done with Bonegrinz, which had some very competitive builds, even in the last months of AoS2.

The above strategy is not working anymore, due to the new battleplans and changes in the scoring (cant build up significant early lead) and also because the backbone of the army, the savage boyz went from 300 to 495 points, a 65% increase for a unit of 30. 

The question for the new tome is how can we adapt to AoS3 ? Icebone brings some extra damage, but even with that the damage output is average at best. What really hurts the army is that we have lost all our tricks, like the old Bonegrinz ability and Breath of Gorkamorka. The tactical repertoire has also shrunk with the arrowboyz nerf. The latter is still good in Bonegrinz, but without Icebone there is just no combat output left in the army. In the meantime we can still field a lot of wounds, but we hace lost a lot of tankyness, esp against shooting armies. 

Is there some new build which can still work? Maybe there is, no need to be too negative, but at this point I can't see it.

The old bone splitters worked for my by stacking armour on my stuff and tanking it out.  But AOS 3 killed that.  Also grabbing far off objectives whit the movment spell that is gone.  This edition seems to be a straight up nerf to an army that wasn't strong to begin whit. and that makes me kinda sad. 

[swarmofseals]

At the height of their potency, Morrsarr Guard had the following weighted efficiencies:

 

Offense:  .0528/.0978/.1316 (not charging/charging/charging+blast)

Defense: .1219

 

Eel spam was an S tier list at that time, and the pure efficiency of Morrsarr Guard was a big part of that.

Since then, average efficiencies in the game have decreased a bit as points costs have gone up.

Here are the efficiencies for Icebone Boars:

Offense (not charging/charging)

Boarboys w/ stikkas .0858/ (5+ models)/.1331

Boarboys w/ stikkas .0799 (<5 models)/.1065

Maniaks (5+ models): .1111/.1572

Maniaks (<5 models): .0833/.1216

Defense

Boarboys: .1639

Maniaks: .1303

 

Basically both versions are way better when not charging, and when charging they are better than charging eels with or without exploding 6's, and with exploding 6's they are better than discharging eels. On defense both are more efficient, with regular boars being substantially more efficient.

Efficiency isn't everything, but it is worth quite a lot especially when paired with speed. You can anchor your line with Kragnos or a Rogue Idol and still have a lot of fast, hitty effective wounds left over.

How to win? depends on the matchup no doubt. I expect against shooting armies you want to be ultra aggressive. You can definitely get there on turn 1 in most battleplans. Shooting is less efficient than melee by a margin, and it's unlikely that shooting armies can pass the DPS check before you overwhelm them.

Against other armies you can attempt to bottle them up with a unit or two and then just keep sending in boars piecemeal to keep an early lead, or you can go for an alpha if they don't screen well. Or you can try to counterpunch and wear them down.

There are going to be bad matchups, I'm sure. But that should be true of every army.

[Orkmann]

I think the issue is not the damage potential, but the delivery mechanism. IDK did well, but they have deep strike, fly (to get around screens), and the Hide tide, which made the msu build very strong. Also, they did not had to worry to much about shooting.

On the note of IDK, maybe it is still what we have to do. Just spam boars like there is no tomorrow and go for a big old Alpha. 😁 Who knows? Maybe it works and this new tome is just an elaborate trick from GW to lure us to buy 60 piggies 😂

Allegiance: Bonesplitterz
- Warclan: Icebone
- Grand Strategy: Hold the Line
- Triumphs:
Savage Big Boss (65)*
- General
- Command Trait: Great Hunter
Wurrgog Prophet (150)**
- Artefact: Glowin' Tattooz
Maniak Weirdnob (90)**
10 x Savage Boarboys (280)*
- Stikkas
- Reinforced x 1
10 x Savage Boarboys (280)*
- Stikkas
- Reinforced x 1
5 x Savage Boarboys (140)*
- Stikkas
5 x Savage Boarboys (140)*
- Stikkas
5 x Savage Boarboys (140)*
- Stikkas
5 x Savage Boarboys (140)**
- Stikkas
5 x Savage Boarboys (140)**
- Stikkas
10 x Savage Boarboy Maniaks (290)**
- Reinforced x 1
5 x Savage Boarboy Maniaks (145)**
*Battle Regiment
**Battle Regiment

Total:  2000
Reinforced Units: 3 / 4
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 199
Drops: 2
 

 

[bonzai]

6 hours ago, swarmofseals said:

It's such a relief to finally be able to talk about this book XD

@bonzai I think you are underestimating the power of the things that Bonesplitterz got with this tome. I get that there are a lot of little subtractions here and there and that the army will play differently now, but I don't think any of the losses are super impactful while the gains are exactly that...

Look, I get it. I said that we weren't terrible, and that we had gained some things. I even said that we have gone from an Arrow boy dominant army to a Boar dominant one. Yes, double hits on 6's is powerful. But take into account that we could do that before with a maniac wierdnob and not be limited to just melee attacks, have lost our bonus attacks for large squads, plus the limitations imposed by unit coherency and it feels less exciting. It definitely helps compensate, but it doesn't seem like a net win to me.. Again, msu boars are the natural winner here.

Let's talk about the impact of what we lost, as I feel that they were not insignificant. You say that we lacked punch. I disagree. We had punch, but you had to min max it and build your list around it. The first was arrowboys. At the start of 3rd edition I could take a unit of 30 arrowboys and a wardokk, fire 90 shots, wound on 4's thanks to brutal beast spirits, for roughly 45 hits, 22 wounds, and if curse went off 15 mortal wounds. I consider that a punch! Now the same squad gets 15 wounds if it is bonegrinz, 10 if it is some other Faction. And we are paying 435 points for that out put now.

We also had damage output via our casting. I always had 4+ casters in my Drakkfoot from 1st edition forward. Not only did we have top notch utility, but damage as well. In 2nd edition, one wardokk had the mask, and could cast breath of gork, another had kunning beast spirits and the option to fireball, the last had the warcry which was both utility and damage. The Wurrgog had brutal beast spirits and his innate spell. All had utility and mortal wound output. Beginning of 3rd you added prayers to the mix, and added even more utility. Yes, warcry is still a great spell, but they took away its damage and a nerf is a nerf. Squiggly Curse sucked, I never used it despite being caster heavy, yet they let us keep it... also with a minor nerf. Bonekrusha has been relegated to headrakka. Kunning beast spirits is gone. Yes mystic shield does the same thing, but having two units +1 to save was a nice option. Breath of Gork was an awesome utility and tactical spell, and it is completely gone. Brutal beast spirits is nerfed and renamed, and lost it's most important function of buffing arrowboys to hit rolls. As for the new spell.... it's fine.... good even. But again boars are the clear winner here. Overall we lost on our spell Lore. Sure, a wurrgog can still Fist like no one's business, but our options and utility went down.

So yes, icebone Boar units stock have risen high, but we could kind of do the same thing before with the curse prayer and not be limited to just melee. It slso came at a cost to 2 other styles of play. And that is the problem. We have always had a clear winner in our books. Kunning rukk, Arrowboy bricks, etc... I am sorry, if you love ham spam lists, then I am happy for you. It looks legit. However I would rather have multiple strong and valid options, instead of just one clear option. It also seems like every edition we lose a little more flavor and character. Like how they replaced battletome battalions with generic core ones, each version becomes more and more homogenized.

But that is just my initial gut reaction. You had early access it seems, and must of play tested. If you were rolling up Tzeentch, Daughters of Khaine, and Slaves to Darkness with green eggs and spam, then I sincerely would love to hear about your experiences.

Edit: ******... I just noticed that the Wardokks dance is now instead of casting or dispelling, and you no longer can do both. Man they hammered them big time. Even the Maniac wierdnob lost his reroll. Wardokk's were the engines in my list. This really, really, hurts 

Edited September 11, 2021 by bonzai

[Yargar]

Why do you guys think they butchered Arrowboyz the way they did? They specifically changed spells to stop any bonuses to be applied and the exploding 6's to not apply. I wonder if they will eventually make all battletombs to reflect this. Possibly switching the meta from range to melee.

[Boggler]

1 hour ago, Yargar said:

Why do you guys think they butchered Arrowboyz the way they did? They specifically changed spells to stop any bonuses to be applied and the exploding 6's to not apply. I wonder if they will eventually make all battletombs to reflect this. Possibly switching the meta from range to melee.

Great question. I haven't taken a look at anything Stormcast yet. Did they completely nerf everything shooting in their tome? If they did then maybe it is an indication that GW will significantly tone down shooting in 3.0

[swarmofseals]

2 hours ago, Yargar said:

Why do you guys think they butchered Arrowboyz the way they did? They specifically changed spells to stop any bonuses to be applied and the exploding 6's to not apply. I wonder if they will eventually make all battletombs to reflect this. Possibly switching the meta from range to melee.

 

50 minutes ago, Boggler said:

Great question. I haven't taken a look at anything Stormcast yet. Did they completely nerf everything shooting in their tome? If they did then maybe it is an indication that GW will significantly tone down shooting in 3.0

also @bonzai although not quoting you

This is a bit of speculation on my part, albeit backed up by data. I think that GW is trying to be very careful with shooting in 3.0 given how shooting heavy the meta was in late 2.0 and the added power of Unleash Hell. If you look at the 3.0 points costs vs. the 2.0 points costs, shooting units went up more on average than melee units did. I calculate the mathhammer for a lot of units, and "par" for a shooting unit in 2.0 was around WOR (same stat as what I used to call WDR) of .07-.08 whereas now par is around .05 for shooting units. These numbers are consistent across the new tomes as well. Artillery units and hybrid melee units are lower of course.

There's also been some movement away from buffs that work on both melee and ranged. A good example of this is the most recent DoK tome, which made most of the buffs melee only.

Based on all of this I think GW probably wants shooting to be part of the competitive meta, but not dominant and certainly not to the exclusion of other playstyles.

A lot of you are discussing the removal of buffs to scale arrowboys and the gating of the third ranged attack behind a subfaction. I haven't seen much discussion (may have missed it) of the fact that arrowboys have +1 melee attack now. GW has shifted them from basically a pure ranged unit to a hybrid unit.

Let's compare 10 Icebone arrowboys to 10 Icebone orruks with chompas, using my WOR (weighted offensive rating) and WDR (weighted defensive rating) formulas. Both are measures of efficiency.

Arrowboys (WOR/WDR): .0653/.1738

Orruks (WOR/WOR CHARGING/WDR): .0727/.0871/.1855

Arrowboys are not that much less efficient than orruks with chompas on both offense and defense. In exchange, they get a bit of ranged attack (.023 WOR vs non monster, .0306 vs monster).

It's also worth noting that arrowboys have VERY high defensive efficiency for a ranged unit. Most ranged units have a WDR of .1 or less.

Is this a good thing? I have no opinion on that yet. But the idea that arrowboys are straight nerfed and unusable isn't really accurate.

 

@bonzai, I definitely respect your main point. I personally dislike it when a single subfaction defines the optimal playstyle for its faction. Whether the faction rules are bad because they've pushed the faction towards one particular playstyle is a valid argument and I certainly won't argue the point. I had thought you were arguing that the faction is mediocre from a power perspective, which I disagree strongly with. I did notice that you said that boars are a clear winner, but it seemed that you were also suggesting that although the boars are better that they still aren't very good. And again that's where I disagree -- I'm pretty confident that they are a top tier warscroll. It's very possible that I'm wrong but generally until there is a large body of gameplay data available I tend to favor the math.

 

[Magnus The Blue]

Anyone else thinking of the prospect of 10*10 Bonegrin Arrowboys.  They feel like a good self sufficient MSU unit now.  Add a Sloggoth, 6-8 Big Stabbas and some support characters and you've got tonnes of bodies, lots of arrows and a solid close combat army to boot. 

Might actually be better as Big Waaagh but hard to turn down 100 extra shots a turn.

[AlmGandix3]

5 minutes ago, Magnus The Blue said:

Anyone else thinking of the prospect of 10*10 Bonegrin Arrowboys.  They feel like a good self sufficient MSU unit now.  Add a Sloggoth, 6-8 Big Stabbas and some support characters and you've got tonnes of bodies, lots of arrows and a solid close combat army to boot. 

Might actually be better as Big Waaagh but hard to turn down 100 extra shots a turn.

if anyone wants to roll 300+ dice a turn I really want to know how it went. With the current save stacking meta I dont know if it will work out too well but we wont know until someone tries this

[Magnus The Blue]

27 minutes ago, AlmGandix3 said:

if anyone wants to roll 300+ dice a turn I really want to know how it went. With the current save stacking meta I dont know if it will work out too well but we wont know until someone tries this

Please, once your in combat it's 500 dice a turn 😆.   The idea would be to use the million arrows to take out all the support units early to minimise save stacking.  Also with so many bodies you should be winning the objective game against most armies.

[Requizen]

One thing that feels a bit overlooked in all this: Big Stabbas down to 80 points! Spam time ☺ 

[Shirtripper]

Hey you, yes, you! Do you like playing Herohammer? Do you ever look at Idoneth Deepkin or LRL with envy over their abilities to fight multiple times in a row but you exclusively think green is the best color and that aelfs really need to cultivate mass?

Now introducing: The Clone Wars (tm)! Where you can fight with 6x Savage Big bosses in a row followed by a Rogue Idol or whatever! That's 36A/3/3/-1/2 with 2 MWs on 6s to wound.

This is of course a memey list, but the idea of forcing opponents to split their attacks among 6 Big Bosses who are walking up the field with each other is just too good to pass up at least one test with.

Icebonez

Warlord Battalion

GENERAL: Savage Big Boss 65 

--Command Trait: Great Hunter

--Artefact: Glowin Tattooz

Savage Big Boss 65

--Artefact: Arcane Tome

--Spell: GorkaMorka War Cry

Savage Big Boss 65

--Artefact: Vial of Manticore Poison

10x Savage Orruks w/ Chompas 165

10x Savage Boarboys w/ Stikkas 280

5x Boarboy Maniaks 145

Warlord Battalion

3x Savage Big Boss 195

10x Savage Orruks w/ Chompas 165

10x Savage Boarboys w/ Stikkas 280

5x Boarboy Maniaks 145

Alpha Beast Pack

Rogue Idol 430

Rogue Idol 430

2k on the dot

Edited September 12, 2021 by Shirtripper

[PlasticCraic]

I keep putting units of 10 Maniak Weirdnobs in my lists, and then remembering how awful the 3rd Edition coherency rules are for cav bases like them.  You'll be lucky to get more than 7 into combat...pay for 5 more, get 2 more.  

Like everyone else I'm currently mucking around with Icebone pig lists and I feel like it's definitely the way to go.  My initial thoughts were loads of 5x Boarboys as mobile screens and skirmishing units, and use your reinforcements for a few blocks of 10 Maniaks (and maybe some Big Stabbas - very frustrating that they cannot benefit from the exploding 6s though).  

But I'm moving more towards using the reinforcements on vanilla Boarboys as mobile tarpits.  You always get the benefit of them being a block of wounds, and at least the spears can hit over the top (if not the pigs), so it feels less inefficient.  I'll probably run the Maniaks as little darts of 5.

I remain to be convinced that Icebone will actually be a good combat army - fishing for those 6s will be exciting, but even if you spike it's not that many mortal wounds.  Tell me if my maths is wrong, but I've got a unit of 5 Maniaks, with All Out Attack, doing about 4 MWs per activation on average.  That's not amazing return for a dedicated combat unit with a CP (or spell), and the rest is the rend 0 damage 1 stuff we are all too familiar with.

I've got a deathstar unit of 15 Boarboys with Spears doing about 8.5 MWs (assuming all 15 Spears get in, and 10 out of 15 pigs - you lose a lot of dice to coherency at 3 per pig).  If you can get the rend spell on them too it'll be about 11 failed saves at a modern standard 3+ save.  Circa 20 damage from a fully buffed, 420-point combat unit seems pretty light to me, and if you're thinking that Icebone mortal wounds will solve every problem then I believe that you'll be in for some disappointment.

They do have a nice dual role as a mobile tarpit, but you'll either need a separate heavy hitter (e.g. take Kragnos and pray that he doesn't get deleted turn one by Lumineth), or accept that your strengths are skirmishing and blocking rather than full-blooded combat.  Unit champs issuing IP is a 3rd Ed change that helps these guys a lot.

Best thing in the book in my opinion is the Wurggog Mask.  It is a fan-favourite, great fun, really good and I'm rapt to see it back.  He lost a bit and gained a bit, but in a good way in his case.  I'll be running multiples, maybe investing in a cheeky Lauchon to cart them around.

On 9/12/2021 at 2:29 AM, swarmofseals said:

, but I don't think any of the losses are super impactful while the gains are exactly that.

Strongly disagree with this statement:

• The loss of Curse is super impactful
• The loss of the best spell (double move and fly) is super impactful
• The loss of volume of attacks (Savage Orruks and Arrow Boyz both down by 30 attacks per block) is super impactful
• The points hikes on core units are super impactful
• The loss of Big Stabbas burst damage (D6 against monsters) is super impactful.
• The loss of run and charge on Big Stabbas is super impactful
• The loss of the Monster Hunter table is super impactful

If you think none of those things mattered and were weak sauce rules, then fair play to you, but I completely disagree.  The mobility bonuses in particular were huge for this army...and super impactful.

[PlasticCraic]

9 minutes ago, Shirtripper said:

Hey you, yes, you! Do you like playing Herohammer? Do you ever look at Idoneth Deepkin or LRL with envy over their abilities to fight multiple times in a row but you exclusively think green is the best color and that aelfs really need to cultivate mass?

Now introducing: The Clone Wars (tm)! Where you can fight with 6x Savage Big bosses in a row followed by a Rogue Idol or whatever! That's 36A/3/3/-1/2 with 2 MWs on 6s to wound.

This is of course a memey list, but the idea of forcing opponents to split their attacks among 6 Big Bosses who are walking up the field with each other is just too good to pass up at least one test with.

Ha! Love this 😍

[Boggler]

• The loss of batalions in 3.0 is super impactful
• The loss of the best 1 drop 480pts spent on batalions list is super impactful

Seriously. Like others have said. We had options before. People love this army and played a huge variety of lists all throughout 2.0

I'm guessing that Seraphon and every other army will eventually lose all their CP regen on all their heroes. Bonuses to cast and or on Artefacts will be rare when the new books start releasing.

[bonzai]

29 minutes ago, Requizen said:

One thing that feels a bit overlooked in all this: Big Stabbas down to 80 points! Spam time ☺ 

I was looking what a group or two of 4 could do in a Drakkfoot.  I really wish I could still take them in squads of 6 so that they could get exploding 6's, but those days are gone. They will be crucial in a Drakkfoot as they are the only melee damage we have that can get around strong saves.... unless they are stacking +1's which is a thing. What I don't like is that it's only 8 wounds on a 6 up save to wipe it out. 160 points, 12 attacks, averaging 8 hits, 5 wounds, dealing 10 damage if unsaved. 

It's been frustrating.... with the nerfs to our Battleline I am now forced to take 3 units of Savage Orruks Moreboys. Either way that is close to 500 points in units that won't really do much. Not being able to take boarboys as Battleline hurts, as I now have to take them in addition to my unit tax in order to have ANY fast elements in my list. Speed is crucial in this edition, as you can fall behind quickly. Before you know it half your list is spent before you have even decided how you are going to actually win. 

[Yargar]

The worse thing about running 5 man blocks or Savage Boar Boyz, or Maniaks is as soon as you lose one you miss out on the extra attacks. It's kinda a double edge sword.

[bonzai]

So... here is my first draft of my new list post battletome.

Sub Faction: Drakkfoot

HQ
Wurrgog Prophet 150 (master of magic, glowing tattoos, warcry)**
Wardokk 85 (levitate)**
Wardokk 85 ( power of the were-boar)**

Battleline
10 Moreboys 145**
10 Moreboys 145**
10 Moreboys 145**

Other
10 Boarboy Maniacs 290**

Behemoth
Rogue Idol 430**
Rogue Idol 430

Endless Spells
Emerald Life Swarm 60

Battalions: Battle Regiment**

Total: 1985

It's a 2 drop army. Idols give +1 to cast a piece, and with the Wardokks they can bring my Wurrgog up to a max of +3 to cast to supercharge his fist of gork. Against solo models he can do a staring contest and hedge his bets with glowing tattoos. The Rogue Idols are also a decent source of damage. The life swarm, helps heal up the Idols, and in a pinch the Wardokks can too. Wardokk are a sad shell of what they used to be, but they at least provide utility. Moreboys are screens, objective holders, and can slap fight if need be. Lastly the Maniacs are my fast unit, and should pack a decent punch with exploding 6's.

It's no where near as good as it was, but I am making the best of a bad situation without giving in and playing Icebone Boar spam.

Edited September 13, 2021 by bonzai

[Magnus The Blue]

Been having some fun with maths and on my are Maniac Boarboys the big winners.

In icebone and unit of just 5 charging will do, on average over 11 wounds against 4+ armour saves.  About 50% of the wounds are from mortals so they scale really well against both better and worse saves.  Without charging they still crack out just under 8 damage, which still hurts.

Morboyz are similarly killy in the unlikely situation where you can get all of them into combat, are slower but also harder to kill.

Regular Boarboys are obviously also good, since they are battleline and a bit more hardy, still spit out 9 wounds on the charge and nearly six without it.

Both get a 25% less killy when they lose one model but are hardly neutered. 

With Tireless trackers they are all moving 20" first turn before charging, so an Alpha strike to be scared of!

[AlmGandix3]

23 hours ago, Magnus The Blue said:

With Tireless trackers they are all moving 20" first turn before charging, so an Alpha strike to be scared of!

How do you move 20"? Isn't tireless tracker 5", so 12+5 or am I missing something?

[Yargar]

You can take the Great Hunter trait and it makes Tireless Tracker 8 inches instead of 5 inches. 

[AlmGandix3]

21 minutes ago, Yargar said:

You can take the Great Hunter trait and it makes Tireless Tracker 8 inches instead of 5 inches. 

Ah I skipped over that one since it's savage boss only