Forgeworld miniatures

[Perturbato]

Hey folks, i'm asking

[Overread]

Only FW and GW know and honestly FW has shifted so much over the last few years they might not even know. All we do know is that FW has generally gutted the AoS line of models several times over the last few years. Right now is NOT a good place with regard to them. Heck even the GW social media team forget about them (I recall an article on exalted greater demons which didn't even mention the FW models once). Whilst the 40K side is pretty solid, the AoS side is very shaky. 

The rules and points are done by Gw, but the most recent Generals Handbook has no entries for any of the FW stuff.

[sandlemad]

I don't think we should expect a mass wipe of all FW AoS minis, just a gradual snipping away of options and stuff falling out of production. I mean the entire range is only 22 products at the moment, with many of those 'no longer available' (an undetermined amount of which are just down to their troubled webstore). Any point changes will be just as half-hearted, intermittent and probably not though through.

There will definitely be some FW minis available for AoS in 3 years but I wouldn't be surprised if we're just talking about the four exalted greater daemons because they are also usable for 40k. And yeah, they're legit. There's some brilliant sculpts left, with more sadly on the dung heap.

Edited August 3, 2021 by sandlemad

[Landohammer]

I think GW is always looking for an excuse to sell people more books. I imagine we will get a new monstrous arcanum released in the next year or so. Or, at worse, a white dwarf will provide a supplement. 

I wouldn't personally buy any more FW AOS models until they do though. I imagine there are quite a few Dread Saurian owners sweating bullets right now

[Overread]

I've always held that you get a FW model because you love it first and want to use it second. 

But yeah it is a pain to buy a model and see it removed from gameplay - atl east the greater demon models you can use as regular greater demons. 

 

[TheCovenLord]

I have been hoping for quite a while that the Forgeworld miniatures I do own would be updated to match AoS as it has progressed. Nothing but disappointment so far with many of them being discontinued, moved to legends or left to languish with no points changes for years. The greater daemons remain the only relatively stable part of the roster and frankly they are starting to show their age. 

 

I believe currently you cannot even use some of their newer models due to the Contest of Generals points limit on individual models forcing things like the not so strong and uber expensive Khorne Dragon out of matched play (unless they drop it 100 points).

 

As someone stated earlier. Buy them as "art/hobby pieces" first and play pieces absolutely dead last (unless your group is particularly favourable to proxying).

Edited August 3, 2021 by TheCovenLord

[zilberfrid]

2 hours ago, Perturbato said:

Hey folks, i'm asking

Don't get Forgeworld miniatures to play with them. Their support is shaky at best, and while GW actively hides what they dumped and not, Forgeworld's incompetence at providing a usable status even less transparent. I expect all AoS models to be gone in three years.

I'd also be hesitant to get anything multipart, because quality control is lacking.

Price-wise (for Europe) modern models have crept closer to FW prices, so some models like Necromunda heroes might be appetizing, but the quality of GW's recent plastics obsoleted that a bit as well.

[Perturbato]

Well thanks for continuing the poll looks like you are saving me from mistakes as i was gonna fail for the greater daemon of khorne for gameplay value pour (amulet of fate) but i won't go further that way i wanted to have advice for it but the model are not that good looking. 

[EccentricCircle]

Yeah, as others have said, get forgeworld models if you really like them as works of art, and want them as a hobby and painting project. Don't get them because you think the rules are going to be the major selling point.

Even were support not lacking, and the future not uncertain, rules come and go, and what is fun today is terrible tomorrow. In three years time we will have 4e Age of Sigmar, and no one can predict what will or won't be good. If you are going to spend money on a big model, and then spend all the time and effort to paint it, it shouldn't be for any reason as transitory as rules.

This goes for the big GW centre pieces too, but is especially important for forgeworld, because they are often so pricey, and so uncertain.

But that said, some of them are fantastic models. I love my Dread Maw, even if she's never been used for warhammer (she has been used for D&D on multiple occasions, but that's another story). My Carmine dragon doesn't leave the display case, and the same will be true of the Dread Saurian when I finish painting him.

[yukishiro1]

There aren't enough AOS FW units left - only 19 now - to justify a new book release, and that's the only way they'll update them. The fact that they didn't even bother to update the points for 3.0 says a lot about the lack of future for FW in AOS. 

Edited August 3, 2021 by yukishiro1

[Kaleb Daark]

With the rules team within GW taking the rules writing off the FW team it signed the death warrant for FW in AoS.

Chaos dwarfs made it to legends over a year ago, and now they've gone entirely.

My belief is that the mothership just doesn't want the bother.  AoS is plastic and thats that.

I can see the only thing being left is the daemons as they're usable in both, and I mean come on, the thirster is sublime - why would you want to use the dire pile of dog log plastic model when you have the exalted thirster in its place. I still think their greaters are far more sublime than even the new greater daemon plastics.  

If GW were serious about supporting the FW models you'd have seen the points for them in the battletomes and even mentions for them - you don't, and never have.

It's a pity as I've found FW a lot more gritty and darker in aesthetic than the plastics which at times have been Christmas tree caricatures and for me it works well.

I also think that now the mothership has told FW that it's place is specialist games.  perhaps they will remaster the models and bring them back under the old world banner - it makes sense to.

If I have one criticism, its that they could at least send out a last chance to buy.  That would have been nice.  The khorne dragon I was going to treat myself on my birthday in a couple of months, but if I had known it was going I'd have dropped on it right away, same goes for the dreadquake mortar and several other models.  To suddenly tear out the rug is pretty poor.

 

On a wish list level I'm hoping for one of the back stories in old world being the original vision that Rick Priestley had for end times before the main GW studio took it out of his hands, and the story would make sense given what we know of the old world currently.

So... Tamurkhan was one of four sons of the Khurgan.  Each chose a different god, and follow the path of chaos in an attempt to become the everchosen.

He and Alan Bligh were going to follow this narrative through Warhammer fantasy in the same way that the black books followed the 30k narrative, and as we all know, the monstrous arcanum and the Tamurkhan book are truly beautiful things in the flesh.

I remember one FW open day way  back when, that the dragon was being talked about even then.  Don't forget that the original  show for the Kdaai destroyer pretty much ended up as the greater khorgorath in everything but head.  Speaking to Alan Bligh, he was full of so many ideas on the whole four sons of the khurgan narrative and I wouldn't be surprised if all his old notes and outline documents are a treasure trove of inspiration to the new Old World team.

That would be an epic story arc with four amazing centrepiece models  - we already have two brothers, Tamurkhan on the toad dragon, and the khorne dude, and it all happened several hundred years prior to arky coming along so precedes the whole storm of chaos narrative quite nicely.

But going back to the original thread... nah.

FW for AoS is dead.  I think the GW rules team taking it on was a burden they never really wanted, and I wouldn't be at all surprised if there are factions within the main business that were resentful of the FW team and following.  As the guy in the gw staff thread pointed out, FW had a very old school, tighter team way fo working and mentality and that I can see rubbing the corporate minded people up the wrong way.

I used to work for a special operations division for a manufacturer and what he said resonated - we were very proactive and tight as a team, and we did things our way, and our stuff just spun gold as everyone wanted it.  The main business were forever trying to break us to fall in line with their processes, design language and way of things, and in the end they won and the department apparently is a shadow of it's former glory - but it plays the way the mothership tells it to, and all the cool stuff was taken over by them, and subsequently binned off.

No, I think that AoS is very clear in what it wants and where it's heading.

I can see also that when the old world breaks cover all the old legacy models that existed pre AoS being phased out and going back to the old world - and it's right that they should, after all they were designed for rank and flank.

Chaos warriors being an example - look at the new slaves models, dynamic poses, aesthetic tweaked for AoS, send the original ones back to fantasy.  Same with beastmen  - give AoS some lovely updated sculpts and new look aesthetics and the AoS scale, and send the original models back to the old world.

In the last days of 8th, the aesthetic of anything that was dropping at the time was clearly completely different to what had come before - of course it was, it was designed for AoS rather than fantasy.

Even on things like the exalted  greater daemons, I can see their warscrolls just dropping away. That's ok.  I'll always use my FW thirster as a regular thirster rather than that thing that needs plastic glue.

[baiardo]

I think gw will start making some FW products like death korps of krieg or colossal squig on its own, lowering the price compared to FW but increasing the sale. I believe that FW will be incorporated.

[zilberfrid]

3 minutes ago, baiardo said:

I think gw will start making some FW products like death korps of krieg or colossal squig on its own, lowering the price compared to FW but increasing the sale. I believe that FW will be incorporated.

Dkok are in the next kill team box, so I like your chances.

[RuneBrush]

Thought what I'm about to type was common knowledge, but will put it down here just in case.

Probably about 4 years ago, two new teams were created within FW to handle AoS and 40k.  Those teams would be responsible for all AoS and 40k offerings from FW - that included new miniatures & rules.  I had a really good chat with the chap heading AoS up at a WHFest and they had a whole host of ideas for things like monsters (cross-factional keywords amongst them!).  Around 9 months later GW made the decision that they wanted the main studio to be responsible for all content for their main games and the two teams were disbanded, the staff reallocated into other areas and FW rules were handed over to the main studio design teams.

So, the situation we currently have is that FW don't have any resources to create new miniatures.  Anything that was likely to come out has now come out and the rules & points are the responsibility of the appropriate main studios.  The casting part of FW is still producing some miniatures because they're still popular.

In my eyes, FW AoS miniatures have basically been pushed to the back of the shelf and left to gather dust.  It's a shame as some of them are amazing.  What happens longer term - who knows.  They may simply be forgotten or we may get the odd points update.  I can certainly see the miniatures that are no longer produced being confined to legacy at some point.

[Chikout]

I think Forgeworld as we know it is essentially dead. It has been taken over by specialist games. I don't think we'll ever see them make minis for 40k or AoS ever again. Horus Heresy is about to get a big revamp and Warhammer fantasy is coming eventually. Those are massive projects. 

As for rules, the time to do an update was the launch of AoS3. If we haven't had anything already, we probably never will. 

[sandlemad]

Good point. AoS 3.0 had a huge thematic and rules emphasis on monsters and then when we look at FW, it’s just… nothing. You couldn’t make a more perfect opportunity to relaunch or reinvigorate things but it’s been completely skipped over.
 

Put generously, FW has been limping along for about five years since Alan Bligh’s death and essentially all the ‘comebacks’ that people have read in the tea leaves since then have come to nothing. Specialist Games are great and a success story but they’re a different beast built on the bones of old Forge World.

[Gaz Taylor]

1 hour ago, Chikout said:

I think Forgeworld as we know it is essentially dead. It has been taken over by specialist games. I don't think we'll ever see them make minis for 40k or AoS ever again. Horus Heresy is about to get a big revamp and Warhammer fantasy is coming eventually. Those are massive projects. 

As for rules, the time to do an update was the launch of AoS3. If we haven't had anything already, we probably never will. 

100% agree. Closest I think we will see is maybe (and I mean maybe) rules for models from the old world for Age of Sigmar. 

[SunStorm]

If you are buying them because they're nice kits and you want to paint them, then go for it. If you are more interested in the gaming side, then you might be better off passing as rules can and will change. 

Anything that is still for sale that you might want, I'd suggest buying it as soon as you can as you never know when stuff will go OOP. My pile of shame has gown recently with some AoS stuff I managed to get before they went off sale. On the plus side however, the price of them on the secondhand market went up, so I feel less bad about having them as they could always be sold off and I'd not lose any money. 

On a side note, personally I think it's a shame we never got the Fimir units they showed off as WIPs at some of the events. 

 

 

[RuneBrush]

17 minutes ago, sandlemad said:

Put generously, FW has been limping along for about five years since Alan Bligh’s death and essentially all the ‘comebacks’ that people have read in the tea leaves since then have come to nothing. Specialist Games are great and a success story but they’re a different beast built on the bones of old Forge World.

I'm not necessarily sure that this is correct.  Alan's remit was the Heresy/Age of Darkness so to say that it all went awry when he passed away is doing a disservice to the people who have continued to work within that side of the business.  They've continued to produce some stunning miniatures in that time - just not 40k and AoS due to decisions outside of FW.

My own take (and this has been the case for a few years now) is that Forge World is basically going to turn into the manufacturing/sales brand of Specialist Games.  In truth we're almost at that point now.

[SunStorm]

6 hours ago, Kaleb Daark said:

So... Tamurkhan was one of four sons of the Khurgan.  Each chose a different god, and follow the path of chaos in an attempt to become the everchosen.

He and Alan Bligh were going to follow this narrative through Warhammer fantasy in the same way that the black books followed the 30k narrative, and as we all know, the monstrous arcanum and the Tamurkhan book are truly beautiful things in the flesh.

I remember one FW open day way  back when, that the dragon was being talked about even then.  Don't forget that the original  show for the Kdaai destroyer pretty much ended up as the greater khorgorath in everything but head.  Speaking to Alan Bligh, he was full of so many ideas on the whole four sons of the khurgan narrative and I wouldn't be surprised if all his old notes and outline documents are a treasure trove of inspiration to the new Old World team.

That would be an epic story arc with four amazing centrepiece models  - we already have two brothers, Tamurkhan on the toad dragon, and the khorne dude, and it all happened several hundred years prior to arky coming along so precedes the whole storm of chaos narrative quite nicely.

This! So much. Tamurkhan is still one my favourite GW books. The page design, the grand scope of the story, the darker feel. I can only imagine how good a full 4 book series, 1 for each god would've been. 

[sandlemad]

@RuneBrush I don’t mean to put down the work of those who have worked in FW since Bligh’s passing, merely to note that even for GW it is a remarkably mismanaged department or subcompany or whatever. This is pretty clear from the accounts of multiple people who have worked there, who noted that there has been no real direction or support from GW proper, and minimal interaction even where it would make clear sense (40k Apocalypse, AoS 3.0). Along with what we know about how FW/SG/GW rules designers have been paid, this is the kind of being jerked around that shows how much GW respects its staff, so it's not me doing a disservice to them.

What we saw as ‘chaotic old school GW charm and independence’ combined with that to lead to stuff like staff working unpaid overtime or on lunch breaks to make products that were then dropped entirely pretty late in the game due to miscommunication with the main studio. Or even the situation you mentioned yourself, the seeming back and forth over who gets to actually write the rules for their AoS releases with fairly sudden changes in direction leaving things basically in limbo (this is the kind of ‘comeback failing to manifest’ I meant).

For whatever reason it seems to me that Bligh had some influence within the company and/or ability to marshal support and that in his absence (and the shift of Andy Hoare and others to Specialist Games), the FW studio have essentially been hung out to dry, treated at best inconsistently or more likely as an irrelevant afterthought. I believe that this is a genuine factor in FW’s decline that can be put alongside other issues: the older loss of their WHFB grand plans, 8th Ed. 40k hitting the Horus heresy playerbase, the resurgence of Specialist Games, Citadel doing more and larger plastic kits, the departure of various sculptors, and FW’s own internal small team stuff being stretched to breaking point.

I do think you’re spot on in noting that Specialist Games has essentially replaced FW - it’s been a huge success and the most interesting stuff to come out of GW to my mind - but that is one of the things that’s come at the expense of FW as we used to know it.

Edited August 4, 2021 by sandlemad